[ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

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[ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Peter TB Brett
Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0 DP 1, a
development preview of LiveCode 9.

You can find out more about the release in this blog post, including an
update to our release numbering:
https://livecode.com/whats-new-in-livecode-9-dp-1/

Developer Preview Release
=========================
Warning: this is not a stable release.  Please ensure that you back up
your stacks before testing them.

Getting the Release
===================
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or
via the automatic updater.

Release Contents
================
Full release notes:
https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_0_0_dp_1.pdf

Better code search
------------------
The IDE's code search tools are faster and work better for stacks that
use behaviors heavily.

Improved "accept"
-----------------
Set the "defaultNetworkInterface" property to control which network
interfaces the "accept" command listens on.

Tab alignment info
------------------
Setting the "tabAlign" now affects the "htmlText" and "styledText" of
the field.

Improved LCB compiler messages
------------------------------
Errors and warnings while compiling widgets now show you the code that
caused the problem.


LiveCode 9.0 DP 1 contains 26 bug fixes along with many stability
improvements.


Feedback
========
Please report any bugs encountered either to our support team
<[hidden email]> or on our BugZilla at
http://quality.livecode.com/


Have fun!
The LiveCode Team

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Richmond Mathewson-2
Well; despite misgivings, I shall download it and see what awful things
happen on my Xubuntu box.

Certainly should be exciting.

Richmond.

On 17.10.2016 19:54, Peter TB Brett wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0 DP 1, a
> development preview of LiveCode 9.
>
> You can find out more about the release in this blog post, including
> an update to our release numbering:
> https://livecode.com/whats-new-in-livecode-9-dp-1/
>
> Developer Preview Release
> =========================
> Warning: this is not a stable release.  Please ensure that you back up
> your stacks before testing them.
>
> Getting the Release
> ===================
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or
> via the automatic updater.
>
> Release Contents
> ================
> Full release notes:
> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_0_0_dp_1.pdf
>
> Better code search
> ------------------
> The IDE's code search tools are faster and work better for stacks that
> use behaviors heavily.
>
> Improved "accept"
> -----------------
> Set the "defaultNetworkInterface" property to control which network
> interfaces the "accept" command listens on.
>
> Tab alignment info
> ------------------
> Setting the "tabAlign" now affects the "htmlText" and "styledText" of
> the field.
>
> Improved LCB compiler messages
> ------------------------------
> Errors and warnings while compiling widgets now show you the code that
> caused the problem.
>
>
> LiveCode 9.0 DP 1 contains 26 bug fixes along with many stability
> improvements.
>
>
> Feedback
> ========
> Please report any bugs encountered either to our support team
> <[hidden email]> or on our BugZilla at
> http://quality.livecode.com/
>
>
> Have fun!
> The LiveCode Team
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Stephen Barncard-4
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Richmond <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Well; despite misgivings, I shall download it and see what awful things
> happen on my Xubuntu box.
>

Thanks, Richmond, for being YOU. Really.

sqb

Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Richmond Mathewson-2
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
So; oddly enough I spent about an hour messing around with LC 9.0 DP 1 today
and experienced a measured bit of pleasure (stlll do not like the Props
palette that
replaced that in LC 7 and backwards) as everything (on my Linux boz at
least) seemed
*considerably less arthritic than LC 8* was, even if not quite up to
speed in comparison
with LC 7.

Still NO dictionary accessible from the IDE with either the Community or
the Indy builds
for 64 bit Linux.

What I did notice as I did a "Save As" was that I was offered the chance
to save in "Legacy 8.0" format
which seemed to imply that LC 9 enjoys (?) a new file format, but I
couldn't find any mention of that
in the release notes . . . would be glad of a comment re that from the
Mothership, please.

Richmond.
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Peter TB Brett
On 18/10/2016 20:47, Richmond wrote:
> What I did notice as I did a "Save As" was that I was offered the chance
> to save in "Legacy 8.0" format
> which seemed to imply that LC 9 enjoys (?) a new file format, but I
> couldn't find any mention of that
> in the release notes . . . would be glad of a comment re that from the
> Mothership, please.

It's mentioned in the LiveCode 8.1.0 release notes.  We had to introduce
a new file format to cope with fields with more than 32768 characters in
a line.

                                                 Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett <[hidden email]>
LiveCode Technical Project Manager

lcb-mode for Emacs: https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Richmond Mathewson-2
Thank you very much for the info.

Richmond.

On 18.10.2016 23:04, Peter TB Brett wrote:

> On 18/10/2016 20:47, Richmond wrote:
>> What I did notice as I did a "Save As" was that I was offered the chance
>> to save in "Legacy 8.0" format
>> which seemed to imply that LC 9 enjoys (?) a new file format, but I
>> couldn't find any mention of that
>> in the release notes . . . would be glad of a comment re that from the
>> Mothership, please.
>
> It's mentioned in the LiveCode 8.1.0 release notes.  We had to
> introduce a new file format to cope with fields with more than 32768
> characters in a line.
>
>                                                 Peter
>


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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Colin Holgate-3
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
Even 8.1 has the legacy 8.0 option. So I guess the change happened already.


> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:47 PM, Richmond <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> What I did notice as I did a "Save As" was that I was offered the chance to save in "Legacy 8.0" format
> which seemed to imply that LC 9 enjoys (?) a new file format, but I couldn't find any mention of that
> in the release notes . . . would be glad of a comment re that from the Mothership, please.

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Dr. Hawkins
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
What I still don't see is the ability to handle eps & pdf, and including
these in print.

Without either these, or the ability to reversibly import pdf (i.e., turn
it to live code objects in a way that it indistinguishably turns back to
pdf on print to pdf), I need to start planning my transition to another
platform.

AFAIK, eps is the only type of object other than a livecode text field
which could print to an arbitrary density without pixelation (and live code
has made major strides on this the last few years).

I've made great progress in being able to copy/paste pdf text into fields
and capture most of the properties, but it's still labor intensive.
--
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Monte Goulding-2
You could use XPDF to either:

- extract PDF text and print from LC fields
- extract page images and print those

> On 23 Oct. 2016, at 3:33 am, Dr. Hawkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> What I still don't see is the ability to handle eps & pdf, and including
> these in print.
>
> Without either these, or the ability to reversibly import pdf (i.e., turn
> it to live code objects in a way that it indistinguishably turns back to
> pdf on print to pdf), I need to start planning my transition to another
> platform.
>
> AFAIK, eps is the only type of object other than a livecode text field
> which could print to an arbitrary density without pixelation (and live code
> has made major strides on this the last few years).
>
> I've made great progress in being able to copy/paste pdf text into fields
> and capture most of the properties, but it's still labor intensive.
> --
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Dr. Hawkins
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Monte Goulding <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You could use XPDF to either:
>
> - extract PDF text and print from LC fields
> - extract page images and print those
>

I've been using xpdf and similar for decades for various purposes.

But what I need to be able to do is take the "official" pdf, put it on the
screen, place fields & buttons on it to fill it out, work magic with those,
and then send *that* as an output--in a way that there is no detectable
variance between the original pdf and what Iput out, other than the extra
information.

The closest way that I've conceived so far that livecode could possibly do
something close is to turn individual pdf pages pages into png or jpg,
stick that in the background, hide it for export, and then use a script to,
page by page, merge my output with the original pdf, and then assemble
those.

There are lots of things thatch go wrong in those last two pages of
manipulations, as well as getting the alignment right being a nightmare.
 (if pdfs were as standardized as we like to believe, the alignment would
be trivial--but they're not).




--
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Ben Rubinstein
Could you output the annotations as PDF, and shell out to the command-line
version of PDFtk to overlay your annotation PDF on the original PDF?

(Disclaimer: I've not done this myself...)


On 22/10/2016 22:31, Dr. Hawkins wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Monte Goulding <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You could use XPDF to either:
>>
>> - extract PDF text and print from LC fields
>> - extract page images and print those
>>
>
> I've been using xpdf and similar for decades for various purposes.
>
> But what I need to be able to do is take the "official" pdf, put it on the
> screen, place fields & buttons on it to fill it out, work magic with those,
> and then send *that* as an output--in a way that there is no detectable
> variance between the original pdf and what Iput out, other than the extra
> information.
>
> The closest way that I've conceived so far that livecode could possibly do
> something close is to turn individual pdf pages pages into png or jpg,
> stick that in the background, hide it for export, and then use a script to,
> page by page, merge my output with the original pdf, and then assemble
> those.
>
> There are lots of things thatch go wrong in those last two pages of
> manipulations, as well as getting the alignment right being a nightmare.
>  (if pdfs were as standardized as we like to believe, the alignment would
> be trivial--but they're not).
>
>
>
>

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Bob Sneidar-2
In reply to this post by Dr. Hawkins
So you want to create the PDF from scratch? How about if you were able to create the PDF as a fillable form, then save it in a database so you could recreate it at will? That is what my Forms Generator does. You can then fill it using either Applescript on a Mac, or else by creating the FDF xml file on either platform. If the latter, then the PDF has to be created to look for the FDF on startup. This method will work even if you are using Reader.

Applescript on the Mac does have commands for creating objects, but I have never used it. I just fill the forms because using the FDF method means if anyone edits the PDF, saves it, then reopens it, the FDF data will overwrite the saved data, so you have to delete the FDF file after the form is filled, which can take a few seconds. With Applescript I don't have to worry about that.

Acrobat for Windows has a C and Java API for doing something similar, but it's my understanding that it is designed to work in a web environment, not as a standalone executable. I looked into it and determined it wouldn't work for me. All the sandboxing in place these days prevents it.

Bob S


> On Oct 22, 2016, at 14:31 , Dr. Hawkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Monte Goulding <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You could use XPDF to either:
>>
>> - extract PDF text and print from LC fields
>> - extract page images and print those
>>
>
> I've been using xpdf and similar for decades for various purposes.
>
> But what I need to be able to do is take the "official" pdf, put it on the
> screen, place fields & buttons on it to fill it out, work magic with those,
> and then send *that* as an output--in a way that there is no detectable
> variance between the original pdf and what Iput out, other than the extra
> information.
>
> The closest way that I've conceived so far that livecode could possibly do
> something close is to turn individual pdf pages pages into png or jpg,
> stick that in the background, hide it for export, and then use a script to,
> page by page, merge my output with the original pdf, and then assemble
> those.
>
> There are lots of things thatch go wrong in those last two pages of
> manipulations, as well as getting the alignment right being a nightmare.
> (if pdfs were as standardized as we like to believe, the alignment would
> be trivial--but they're not).
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Dr. Hawkins
In reply to this post by Ben Rubinstein
On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 2:52 AM, Ben Rubinstein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Could you output the annotations as PDF, and shell out to the command-line
> version of PDFtk to overlay your annotation PDF on the original PDF?
>

That's tentatively the only way I see to do this going forward.

Actually, it will need another level of abstraction, to not be locked into
a single pfd program such as pdftk, pdftools, etc.

I have yet to see a pdf program that doesn't have problems with some pdf
document or another; its like they pride themselves on cross-program
incompatibility.

There is also the issue of licensing on these programs, license changes,
the program working differently on different platforms, etc.

--
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0 DP 1

Dr. Hawkins
In reply to this post by Bob Sneidar-2
On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 7:59 AM, Bob Sneidar <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> So you want to create the PDF from scratch? How about if you were able to
> create the PDF as a fillable form, then save it in a database so you could
> recreate it at will?
>

The last thing I want is a fillable form :)

I'm looking to take a (typically) government pdf, do all the processing to
figure out the correct info for it, and spit that out as a pdf.


> That is what my Forms Generator does. You can then fill it using either
> Applescript on a Mac, or else by creating the FDF xml file on either
> platform. If the latter, then the PDF has to be created to look for the FDF
> on startup. This method will work even if you are using Reader.
>

Anything dependent on a particular platform is a deal-breaker.  (But I
won't fight windows on a daily basis for development.  Nonetheless, my
Windows market is a couple to many times the size of my mac market . . .)

Using external scripting to fill it is another non-starter.

Simple version that I want:


   1. in advance, convert .pdf pages into .eps
   2. copy background image into work area
   3. put fields on top of this and fill from software
   4. save page as pdf


I can do this in livecode (or supercard, or hypercard) with .png and jpg.
On metacard on some unices, I could do it with a .eps, as I understand it,
and I'd be done.

But the simplest version with livecode that I'm seeing so far is


   1. pre-process pages of source .pdf into something that hopefully pdftk,
   pdftools, and a couple of others all understand
   2. also make a .png to use in development
   3. for each and every .png, figure out how much the offset misses by in
   livecode
   4. display the png in the background while working in livecode
   5. copy what I'm working with, delete .png, and export
   6. hand over control to script
   7. script steps through, page by page overlaying a page of my fields
   onto pages of pre-processed host .pdf
   8. return control
   9. hope scripts did it correctly.


Acrobat for Windows has a C and Java API for doing something similar, but
> it's my understanding that it is designed to work in a web environment, not
> as a standalone executable. I looked into it and determined it wouldn't
> work for me. All the sandboxing in place these days prevents it.
>

And all of these are far more work than having an environment that can
display a .eps as an object . . .


--
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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