[ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

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[ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source
> and the open source community in today's edition of
> the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!
> Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau

Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support
for some features and LC9 will not show anymore
these types of gradients:
'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral'
and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
addOver, subPin, transparent
adMin, addMax

If you check all paint features available
from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint
there are many useful features that LC9
could implement, like:
setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY)
SkPathEffect
SkLine2DPathEffect
SkDiscretePathEffect
SkComposePathEffect
SkSumPathEffect
Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader
Fractal Perlin Noise Shader
Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader
Compose Shader
Blur Mask Filter

Could LC implement first some of
these Skia features like Perlin Noise
and Blur filter?

Al
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
On 2017-05-15 20:40, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote:
>> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source
>> and the open source community in today's edition of
>> the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!
>> Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau
>
> Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support
> for some features and LC9 will not show anymore
> these types of gradients:
> 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral'

These are back in - Michael managed to get them working again.

> and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
> addOver, subPin, transparent
> adMin, addMax

We're still on the fency about all of these - I do wonder how
much they are used anymore particularly as they do not fit into
the RGBA rendering model which everyone uses anymore and as such
are incredibly inefficient. (They will never be acceleratable,
for example).

I'd be surprised if people couldn't get similar effects by using
appropriate blend inks - if they are still in use at all.

> If you check all paint features available
> from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint
> there are many useful features that LC9
> could implement, like:
> setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY)
> SkPathEffect
> SkLine2DPathEffect
> SkDiscretePathEffect
> SkComposePathEffect
> SkSumPathEffect
> Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader
> Fractal Perlin Noise Shader
> Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader
> Compose Shader
> Blur Mask Filter
>
> Could LC implement first some of
> these Skia features like Perlin Noise
> and Blur filter?

Our first aim is to get the new Skia in and working as much as it
did before :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ [hidden email] ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Oh no!  I use the legacy blendModes all the time!


On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Read about new developments in LiveCode open source
> > and the open source community in today's edition of
> > the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!
> > Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau
>
> Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support
> for some features and LC9 will not show anymore
> these types of gradients:
> 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral'
> and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
> addOver, subPin, transparent
> adMin, addMax
>
> If you check all paint features available
> from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint
> there are many useful features that LC9
> could implement, like:
> setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY)
> SkPathEffect
> SkLine2DPathEffect
> SkDiscretePathEffect
> SkComposePathEffect
> SkSumPathEffect
> Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader
> Fractal Perlin Noise Shader
> Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader
> Compose Shader
> Blur Mask Filter
>
> Could LC implement first some of
> these Skia features like Perlin Noise
> and Blur filter?
>
> Al
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated
since LC 5! We've supported thm for quite a long time post-deprecation...

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 7:56 PM Roger Eller via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Oh no!  I use the legacy blendModes all the time!
>
>
> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > > Read about new developments in LiveCode open source
> > > and the open source community in today's edition of
> > > the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!
> > > Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau
> >
> > Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support
> > for some features and LC9 will not show anymore
> > these types of gradients:
> > 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral'
> > and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
> > clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
> > notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
> > notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
> > srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
> > srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
> > addOver, subPin, transparent
> > adMin, addMax
> >
> > If you check all paint features available
> > from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint
> > there are many useful features that LC9
> > could implement, like:
> > setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY)
> > SkPathEffect
> > SkLine2DPathEffect
> > SkDiscretePathEffect
> > SkComposePathEffect
> > SkSumPathEffect
> > Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader
> > Fractal Perlin Noise Shader
> > Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader
> > Compose Shader
> > Blur Mask Filter
> >
> > Could LC implement first some of
> > these Skia features like Perlin Noise
> > and Blur filter?
> >
> > Al
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
I just looked in the dictionary of 6.7.5 (my daily driver), and only
srcCopy concerns me, as it is the default for any image placed as a
control.  I also found an image that I had placed with addMax applied.
This saved me the trouble of taking it into Photoshop of Gimp to create the
same effect.  I'll roll with the changes.

~Roger


On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated
> since LC 5! We've supported thm for quite a long time post-deprecation...
>
> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 7:56 PM Roger Eller via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Oh no!  I use the legacy blendModes all the time!
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > > Read about new developments in LiveCode open source
> > > > and the open source community in today's edition of
> > > > the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!
> > > > Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau
> > >
> > > Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support
> > > for some features and LC9 will not show anymore
> > > these types of gradients:
> > > 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral'
> > > and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
> > > clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
> > > notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
> > > notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
> > > srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
> > > srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
> > > addOver, subPin, transparent
> > > adMin, addMax
> > >
> > > If you check all paint features available
> > > from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint
> > > there are many useful features that LC9
> > > could implement, like:
> > > setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY)
> > > SkPathEffect
> > > SkLine2DPathEffect
> > > SkDiscretePathEffect
> > > SkComposePathEffect
> > > SkSumPathEffect
> > > Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader
> > > Fractal Perlin Noise Shader
> > > Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader
> > > Compose Shader
> > > Blur Mask Filter
> > >
> > > Could LC implement first some of
> > > these Skia features like Perlin Noise
> > > and Blur filter?
> > >
> > > Al
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Mark Waddingham wrote:
> On 2017-05-15 20:40, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote:
>>
>> Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support
>> for some features and LC9 will not show anymore
>> these types of gradients:
>> 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral'
>
> These are back in - Michael managed to get them working again.

Good to hear, thanks.

>> and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
>> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
>> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
>> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
>> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
>> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
>> addOver, subPin, transparent
>> adMin, addMax
>
> We're still on the fency about all of these - I do wonder how
> much they are used anymore particularly as they do not fit into
> the RGBA rendering model which everyone uses anymore and as such
> are incredibly inefficient. (They will never be acceleratable,
> for example).
>
> I'd be surprised if people couldn't get similar effects by using
> appropriate blend inks - if they are still in use at all.

I use some of those inks - glad to hear they're still working.

But help me understand: if not ink, what LC property was Alejandro
referring to?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
> Mark W. wrote:
> > and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
> > clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
> > notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
> > notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
> > srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
> > srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
> > addOver, subPin, transparent
> > adMin, addMax

> We're still on the fency about all of these - I do wonder how
> much they are used anymore particularly as they do not fit into
> the RGBA rendering model which everyone uses anymore and as such
> are incredibly inefficient. (They will never be acceleratable,
> for example).

> I'd be surprised if people couldn't get similar effects by using
> appropriate blend inks - if they are still in use at all.

> Ali L. wrote:
> To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated
> since LC 5! We've supported them for quite a long time post-deprecation...

1. Please read this twice and don't cry ...

The default blendLevel of each and every LC object that has an ink is
"srcCopy" --- 'incredibly inefficient' as you judge it.

2. How do you define a "similar" effect?
3. Please tell me for example which "similar" blend effect allows a dark
   theme in the script editor which is currently simly done by setting the
   fields ink to "notSrcCopy".

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
So do I!

Richmond.

On 5/15/17 9:56 pm, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote:

> Oh no!  I use the legacy blendModes all the time!
>
>
> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source
>>> and the open source community in today's edition of
>>> the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!
>>> Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau
>> Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support
>> for some features and LC9 will not show anymore
>> these types of gradients:
>> 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral'
>> and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
>> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
>> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
>> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
>> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
>> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
>> addOver, subPin, transparent
>> adMin, addMax
>>
>> If you check all paint features available
>> from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint
>> there are many useful features that LC9
>> could implement, like:
>> setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY)
>> SkPathEffect
>> SkLine2DPathEffect
>> SkDiscretePathEffect
>> SkComposePathEffect
>> SkSumPathEffect
>> Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader
>> Fractal Perlin Noise Shader
>> Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader
>> Compose Shader
>> Blur Mask Filter
>>
>> Could LC implement first some of
>> these Skia features like Perlin Noise
>> and Blur filter?
>>
>> Al
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
What does that word "fair" mean? I have always wondered whether
it isn't a bit like "luck", something nebulous (c.f. "rights") to cover up
a multitude of rather more difficult ideas.

Richmond.

On 5/15/17 10:01 pm, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote:

> To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated
> since LC 5! We've supported thm for quite a long time post-deprecation...
>
> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 7:56 PM Roger Eller via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Oh no!  I use the legacy blendModes all the time!
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source
>>>> and the open source community in today's edition of
>>>> the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!
>>>> Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau
>>> Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support
>>> for some features and LC9 will not show anymore
>>> these types of gradients:
>>> 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral'
>>> and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
>>> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
>>> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
>>> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
>>> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
>>> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
>>> addOver, subPin, transparent
>>> adMin, addMax
>>>
>>> If you check all paint features available
>>> from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint
>>> there are many useful features that LC9
>>> could implement, like:
>>> setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY)
>>> SkPathEffect
>>> SkLine2DPathEffect
>>> SkDiscretePathEffect
>>> SkComposePathEffect
>>> SkSumPathEffect
>>> Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader
>>> Fractal Perlin Noise Shader
>>> Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader
>>> Compose Shader
>>> Blur Mask Filter
>>>
>>> Could LC implement first some of
>>> these Skia features like Perlin Noise
>>> and Blur filter?
>>>
>>> Al
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
SrcCopy is identical to blendSrcOver - the latter is its alpha-aware counterpart. The engine makes no distinction between the two - except on groups where it determines if the group should be rendered first and then composited (blendSrcOver), or if its children should be directly composites into the group's parent.

That won't change.

In terms of notSrcCopy then there are other blends which do a similar thing - although in that specific case I'd suggest perhaps letting users set colours in the script editor would be a better approach ;)

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

On 15 May 2017, at 20:21, hh via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Mark W. wrote:
>>> and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
>>> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
>>> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
>>> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
>>> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
>>> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
>>> addOver, subPin, transparent
>>> adMin, addMax
>
>> We're still on the fency about all of these - I do wonder how
>> much they are used anymore particularly as they do not fit into
>> the RGBA rendering model which everyone uses anymore and as such
>> are incredibly inefficient. (They will never be acceleratable,
>> for example).
>
>> I'd be surprised if people couldn't get similar effects by using
>> appropriate blend inks - if they are still in use at all.
>
>> Ali L. wrote:
>> To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated
>> since LC 5! We've supported them for quite a long time post-deprecation...
>
> 1. Please read this twice and don't cry ...
>
> The default blendLevel of each and every LC object that has an ink is
> "srcCopy" --- 'incredibly inefficient' as you judge it.
>
> 2. How do you define a "similar" effect?
> 3. Please tell me for example which "similar" blend effect allows a dark
>   theme in the script editor which is currently simly done by setting the
>   fields ink to "notSrcCopy".
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In this case it means when you take into account the number of global uses of the (now in the modern era) non-standard inks / blend modes we provide... Does that percentage justify the reimplementation effort and continued maintenance (particularly when they have been explicitly deprecated for years) when it could be used on more widely usable things :)

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 15 May 2017, at 20:24, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> What does that word "fair" mean? I have always wondered whether
> it isn't a bit like "luck", something nebulous (c.f. "rights") to cover up
> a multitude of rather more difficult ideas.
>
> Richmond.
>
>> On 5/15/17 10:01 pm, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote:
>> To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated
>> since LC 5! We've supported thm for quite a long time post-deprecation...
>>
>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 7:56 PM Roger Eller via use-livecode <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh no!  I use the legacy blendModes all the time!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source
>>>>> and the open source community in today's edition of
>>>>> the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!
>>>>> Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau
>>>> Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support
>>>> for some features and LC9 will not show anymore
>>>> these types of gradients:
>>>> 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral'
>>>> and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
>>>> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
>>>> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
>>>> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
>>>> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
>>>> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
>>>> addOver, subPin, transparent
>>>> adMin, addMax
>>>>
>>>> If you check all paint features available
>>>> from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint
>>>> there are many useful features that LC9
>>>> could implement, like:
>>>> setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY)
>>>> SkPathEffect
>>>> SkLine2DPathEffect
>>>> SkDiscretePathEffect
>>>> SkComposePathEffect
>>>> SkSumPathEffect
>>>> Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader
>>>> Fractal Perlin Noise Shader
>>>> Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader
>>>> Compose Shader
>>>> Blur Mask Filter
>>>>
>>>> Could LC implement first some of
>>>> these Skia features like Perlin Noise
>>>> and Blur filter?
>>>>
>>>> Al
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
"the modern era"

Ah; such an awful pity that both Thee and Me have more important things
to do;

we could have such fun playing "semantic squash".

Best, Richmond.

On 5/15/17 10:50 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

> In this case it means when you take into account the number of global uses of the (now in the modern era) non-standard inks / blend modes we provide... Does that percentage justify the reimplementation effort and continued maintenance (particularly when they have been explicitly deprecated for years) when it could be used on more widely usable things :)
>
> Mark.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 15 May 2017, at 20:24, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> What does that word "fair" mean? I have always wondered whether
>> it isn't a bit like "luck", something nebulous (c.f. "rights") to cover up
>> a multitude of rather more difficult ideas.
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>>> On 5/15/17 10:01 pm, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote:
>>> To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated
>>> since LC 5! We've supported thm for quite a long time post-deprecation...
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 7:56 PM Roger Eller via use-livecode <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh no!  I use the legacy blendModes all the time!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source
>>>>>> and the open source community in today's edition of
>>>>>> the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!
>>>>>> Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau
>>>>> Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support
>>>>> for some features and LC9 will not show anymore
>>>>> these types of gradients:
>>>>> 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral'
>>>>> and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
>>>>> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
>>>>> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
>>>>> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
>>>>> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
>>>>> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
>>>>> addOver, subPin, transparent
>>>>> adMin, addMax
>>>>>
>>>>> If you check all paint features available
>>>>> from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint
>>>>> there are many useful features that LC9
>>>>> could implement, like:
>>>>> setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY)
>>>>> SkPathEffect
>>>>> SkLine2DPathEffect
>>>>> SkDiscretePathEffect
>>>>> SkComposePathEffect
>>>>> SkSumPathEffect
>>>>> Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader
>>>>> Fractal Perlin Noise Shader
>>>>> Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader
>>>>> Compose Shader
>>>>> Blur Mask Filter
>>>>>
>>>>> Could LC implement first some of
>>>>> these Skia features like Perlin Noise
>>>>> and Blur filter?
>>>>>
>>>>> Al
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
> Mark W. wrote:
> SrcCopy is identical to blendSrcOver - the latter is its alpha-aware
> counterpart. The engine makes no distinction between the two - except
> on groups where it determines if the group should be rendered first
> and then composited (blendSrcOver), or if its children should be
> directly composites into the group's parent. That won't change.
>
> In terms of notSrcCopy then there are other blends which do a similar
> thing - although in that specific case I'd suggest perhaps letting
> users set colours in the script editor would be a better approach ;)

I personally tried since months to use where possible blend modes because
of the "deprecated" mark in the dictionary and your and Ali's discussions
on github. But very often the wanted effect was not achievable with other
modes than the bitmapped ones.

The script editor theme was a discussion here some time before: Simply
try colour-setting-methods and compare to setting the ink to "notSrcCopy"
(what is nothing else than choosing colours by choosing the "reversed"
theme to user's current "light" choice in the preferences).

Also setting simply the ink is up to ten times _faster_ for long scripts
(because it uses still the compiled(?) engine colouring).
And the _same_ effect is NOT achievable, also not a 'medium similar' one,
with a non-bitmap ink. I tried ALL other currently available modes.

I have a big problem with accepting your 'a similar effect is available'
statement, that's too lax -- for example red is similar to blue and green
(because they have the same rgb items).

Some demos for 'the SAME effect is available' would be more convincing.

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
On 2017-05-15 22:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:
> "the modern era"
>
> Ah; such an awful pity that both Thee and Me have more important things
> to do;
>
> we could have such fun playing "semantic squash".

Hehe - indeed, modern should have been 'modern'* with:

* 'Modern' in the context of the evolution of the way 2d graphics is
   expressed in computing. It has gone from pixel-oriented bitwise
   operations; to color-oriented transparent blending operations.

;)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
On 2017-05-15 21:21, hh via use-livecode wrote:

>> Mark W. wrote:
>> > and most of these legacy Blend Modes:
>> > clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse,
>> > notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse,
>> > notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd,
>> > srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr,
>> > srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin
>> > addOver, subPin, transparent
>> > adMin, addMax
>
>> We're still on the fency about all of these - I do wonder how
>> much they are used anymore particularly as they do not fit into
>> the RGBA rendering model which everyone uses anymore and as such
>> are incredibly inefficient. (They will never be acceleratable,
>> for example).
>
>> I'd be surprised if people couldn't get similar effects by using
>> appropriate blend inks - if they are still in use at all.
>
>> Ali L. wrote:
>> To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated
>> since LC 5! We've supported them for quite a long time
>> post-deprecation...
>
> 1. Please read this twice and don't cry ...
>
> The default blendLevel of each and every LC object that has an ink is
> "srcCopy" --- 'incredibly inefficient' as you judge it.
>
> 2. How do you define a "similar" effect?
> 3. Please tell me for example which "similar" blend effect allows a
> dark
>    theme in the script editor which is currently simly done by setting
> the
>    fields ink to "notSrcCopy".

Okay so - I take it the current approach is:

   edit script of stack "revmenubar"
   set the ink of field "Script" of stack "revNewScriptEditor 1" to
"notSrcCopy"

Which gives the exact same effect as:

   set the ink of field "Script" of stack "revNewScriptEditor 1" to
"blendDifference"

As far as I can see, anyway...

However a better effect (due to the way drawing works, transparency,
antialiasing and
such like) is to actually set the colors of the field. i.e.

   - backgroundColor black (inverse of white)
   - each color assigned to the colorization inverted in the same way

The former is directly configurable in preferences; the latter current
has three
fixed modes also configurable in preferences (none, default, classic).
The colorization
'schemes' are defined in the seColorizationLoadScheme handler in the
revseutilitiesbehavior.livecodescript file:

<https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/blob/b633a07eddc577887b94bd09cbc2d4ef4f50f4be/Toolset/palettes/script%20editor/behaviors/revsestackbehavior.livecodescript>

These are easy to add to - or better yet, a little dialog in preferences
which allows
you to add / remove them would be cool.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
On 2017-05-15 21:11, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote:
> I just looked in the dictionary of 6.7.5 (my daily driver), and only
> srcCopy concerns me, as it is the default for any image placed as a
> control.  I also found an image that I had placed with addMax applied.
> This saved me the trouble of taking it into Photoshop of Gimp to create
> the
> same effect.  I'll roll with the changes.

As I said elsewhere, srcCopy is the same as blendSrcOver and only has
a distinction when it is applied to a group.

In terms of the others, there are effects you can get with the 'legacy'
inks
and it is useful to file those uses with us so we can see what they are
and
how to add replacements.

In the case of things applied to images, a general convolve/colormatrix
type
property would probably give much more flexibility - and fit in much
better
with the 'graphics pipelines' of today (rather than those of the
1980's).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Yes, thanks. [You did probably test on Mac only. It's not worth to mix
in the problem of linux (and Raspi) with blend modes/transparency here.]

Anyway, I updated my stack to a simple Theme-switcher, usable as tiny
plugin and included it to post RaspberryPi stacks #89
( http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=150402#p150402 ).

I find it more comfortable (what the stack does by one click) to simply
reverse all current settings of the prefs for theme and background by
setting the blend modes. That's pretty fast and one can use it for each
script editor window differently dark or light: incredibly efficient ;-)

> Okay so - I take it the current approach is:
>
>    edit script of stack "revmenubar"
>    set the ink of field "Script" of stack "revNewScriptEditor 1" to
> "notSrcCopy"
>
> Which gives the exact same effect as:
>
>    set the ink of field "Script" of stack "revNewScriptEditor 1" to
>    "blendDifference"
>
> As far as I can see, anyway...
>
> However a better effect (due to the way drawing works, transparency,
> antialiasing and
> such like) is to actually set the colors of the field. i.e.
>
>    - backgroundColor black (inverse of white)
>    - each color assigned to the colorization inverted in the same way
>
> The former is directly configurable in preferences; the latter current
> has three
> fixed modes also configurable in preferences (none, default, classic).
> The colorization
> 'schemes' are defined in the seColorizationLoadScheme handler in the
> revseutilitiesbehavior.livecodescript file:
>
> <https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/blob/
> b633a07eddc577887b94bd09cbc2d4ef4f50f4be/Toolset/palettes/
> script%20editor/behaviors/revsestackbehavior.livecodescript>
>
> These are easy to add to - or better yet, a little dialog in preferences
> which allows
> you to add / remove them would be cool.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
On 2017-05-16 14:51, hh via use-livecode wrote:
> Yes, thanks. [You did probably test on Mac only. It's not worth to mix
> in the problem of linux (and Raspi) with blend modes/transparency
> here.]

I don't recall seeing any bug reports about inks/transparency on Linux -
could you elaborate?

> Anyway, I updated my stack to a simple Theme-switcher, usable as tiny
> plugin and included it to post RaspberryPi stacks #89
> ( http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=150402#p150402 ).
>
> I find it more comfortable (what the stack does by one click) to simply
> reverse all current settings of the prefs for theme and background by
> setting the blend modes. That's pretty fast and one can use it for each
> script editor window differently dark or light: incredibly efficient
> ;-)

In terms of number of lines of code to achieve the effect, perhaps - but
not for the poor CPU...

Any control which has an ink other than srcCopy has to be rendered into
an offscreen buffer before it can be composited into the parent. So,
technically, the CPU would be happier if the colors used in the first
place were just inverted ;)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

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