[ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Roger Eller
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Monte Goulding <[hidden email]
> wrote:

>
> > On 23 Oct 2015, at 5:27 am, Peter Haworth <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > ATom does have a great advantage over Textmate because it can apparently
> > flag syntax errors but I need to figure out how to set up LC server to
> make
> > that work.
>
> Download LiveCode Server from downloads.livecode.com <
> http://downloads.livecode.com/> and unzip then put the path to the server
> engine in the field in settings titled LiveCode Server Engine Path.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
>

I don't see a field in Atom's settings titled "LiveCode Server Engine
Path".  That seems odd that it would.  Isn't Atom for any language?

~Roger
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Monte Goulding
In reply to this post by Peter Haworth

> On 23 Oct 2015, at 3:17 am, Peter Haworth <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The script editor ( and TextMate) automatically indent after
> if/repeat/switch statements, Atom doesn't.  I know it has snippets that
> will insert a complete if block with indentation but if I simply type an if
> statement followed by return, no indentation.

This should be possible.
>
> The other one is if I press the tab key in the IDE Script Editor, all my
> code is properly indented and aligned.  I would guess that's too specific
> for Atom to be able to handle, but I miss that feature.

One problem here is tab is used to jump to fields in auto-completed snippets. It should be feasible to have some other key combo trigger a re-indent of the file. It may be that atom already has a standard key combo for this… In most IDEs this is a contextual menu option rather than a standard behavior. I image if you were in a team and using different editors that had slight differences in the re-ident behavior then it would make a real mess of you git history…

Cheers

Monte
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Monte Goulding
In reply to this post by Roger Eller

> On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:13 am, Roger Eller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I don't see a field in Atom's settings titled "LiveCode Server Engine
> Path".  That seems odd that it would.  Isn't Atom for any language?

In the settings for the livecode language package in Settings > Packages
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Richard Gaskin
The length of this and related threads has me wondering:

How hard would it be to make a good text editor in LiveCode?

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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Roger Eller
In reply to this post by Monte Goulding
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Monte Goulding <[hidden email]
> wrote:

>
> > On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:13 am, Roger Eller <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > I don't see a field in Atom's settings titled "LiveCode Server Engine
> > Path".  That seems odd that it would.  Isn't Atom for any language?
>
> In the settings for the livecode language package in Settings > Packages
>

Oh. There it is.  Thx.

~Roger
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Monte Goulding
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin

> On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:19 am, Richard Gaskin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> How hard would it be to make a good text editor in LiveCode?

It might not be hard but probably take considerably more time than the time it takes to read this thread and has taken for @peter-b and contributors to put together the livecode language package for atom. It took much less time for me to develop the linter for example than I spend on debugging simple little syntax errors in livecode server scripts for example. The ROI was well worth it and with Atom covering the 3 desktop platforms it seemed a no brainer. I’m not doing much with LCB yet but I suspect getting live script errors in that will be a bit of a boon too. Whether folks use if as an alternative editor for stack scripts was not really my goal when making contributions but I’ve already found it useful for script only stacks.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Richard Gaskin
Monte Goulding wrote:

 >> On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:19 am, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >>
 >> How hard would it be to make a good text editor in LiveCode?
 >
 > It might not be hard but probably take considerably more time than
 > the time it takes to read this thread and has taken for @peter-b
 > and contributors to put together the livecode language package for
 > atom. It took much less time for me to develop the linter for example
 > than I spend on debugging simple little syntax errors in livecode
 > server scripts for example. The ROI was well worth it and with Atom
 > covering the 3 desktop platforms it seemed a no brainer. I’m not
 > doing much with LCB yet but I suspect getting live script errors in
 > that will be a bit of a boon too. Whether folks use if as an
 > alternative editor for stack scripts was not really my goal when
 > making contributions but I’ve already found it useful for script only
 > stacks.

My question wasn't about ROI, but where I was going with that is less
interesting than your reply, which raises a question of its own:

Given that PHP, Python, Lua, Ruby, and most other scripting languages
deliver a great engine with no IDE at all, why don't we leverage the
community's and the team's interest in using external editors and just
either bundle one with LC and/or let people use their own?

--
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  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Monte Goulding

> On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:36 am, Richard Gaskin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> My question wasn't about ROI, but where I was going with that is less interesting than your reply, which raises a question of its own:
>
> Given that PHP, Python, Lua, Ruby, and most other scripting languages deliver a great engine with no IDE at all, why don't we leverage the community's and the team's interest in using external editors and just either bundle one with LC and/or let people use their own?

Would moving the script editor to a separate process solve any problems we know about? Why not just continue with a built in editor and some IDE APIs that we can use to implement external editor plugins?
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Bob Sneidar-2
Trevor and Jerry worked on the Remo project, which was actually quite good. It ran as a separate application, but was able to access and save scripts. It also had a great application manager interface, quite superior to what we currently have.

The "weakness" (if I can call it that) is that the debugger was not a step debugger. Instead you set breakpoints and at those points, Remo would save the current state of the variables at that break point. Jerry really liked this much better than a step debugger, but others liked the LC debugger method more. I was one of them, although I could see uses for both.

So it's obviously possile to have an external application access the scripts in a stack. Why Remo went away I don't know, but I suspect changes in the engine were too much to keep up with. New commands and syntax would constantly have to be updated, and that is really the problematic thing about any external that does this sort of thing.

You would need a debugger API of some sort, where you could pass commands and have some kind of response passed back. Not sure it's worth it. The wheel, whatever anyone's beef about it, is actually quite good already.

Bob S


On Oct 22, 2015, at 16:10 , Monte Goulding <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:


On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:36 am, Richard Gaskin <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

My question wasn't about ROI, but where I was going with that is less interesting than your reply, which raises a question of its own:

Given that PHP, Python, Lua, Ruby, and most other scripting languages deliver a great engine with no IDE at all, why don't we leverage the community's and the team's interest in using external editors and just either bundle one with LC and/or let people use their own?

Would moving the script editor to a separate process solve any problems we know about? Why not just continue with a built in editor and some IDE APIs that we can use to implement external editor plugins?

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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Peter Haworth
Well there's Mark Wieder's GLX2 editor plugin
  Mark?

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015, 4:27 PM Bob Sneidar <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Trevor and Jerry worked on the Remo project, which was actually quite
> good. It ran as a separate application, but was able to access and save
> scripts. It also had a great application manager interface, quite superior
> to what we currently have.
>
> The "weakness" (if I can call it that) is that the debugger was not a step
> debugger. Instead you set breakpoints and at those points, Remo would save
> the current state of the variables at that break point. Jerry really liked
> this much better than a step debugger, but others liked the LC debugger
> method more. I was one of them, although I could see uses for both.
>
> So it's obviously possile to have an external application access the
> scripts in a stack. Why Remo went away I don't know, but I suspect changes
> in the engine were too much to keep up with. New commands and syntax would
> constantly have to be updated, and that is really the problematic thing
> about any external that does this sort of thing.
>
> You would need a debugger API of some sort, where you could pass commands
> and have some kind of response passed back. Not sure it's worth it. The
> wheel, whatever anyone's beef about it, is actually quite good already.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Oct 22, 2015, at 16:10 , Monte Goulding <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
> On 23 Oct 2015, at 8:36 am, Richard Gaskin <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> My question wasn't about ROI, but where I was going with that is less
> interesting than your reply, which raises a question of its own:
>
> Given that PHP, Python, Lua, Ruby, and most other scripting languages
> deliver a great engine with no IDE at all, why don't we leverage the
> community's and the team's interest in using external editors and just
> either bundle one with LC and/or let people use their own?
>
> Would moving the script editor to a separate process solve any problems we
> know about? Why not just continue with a built in editor and some IDE APIs
> that we can use to implement external editor plugins?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Monte Goulding
Monte Goulding wrote:
 > Would moving the script editor to a separate process solve any
 > problems we know about?

That does seem to be the question at hand here.

--
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  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Mike Kerner
Having the various tools and palettes be in separate threads would solve a
variety of problems, IMHO, including having variables and properties in
danger of getting stamped due to instances and scope being mixed, the need
for so many front scripts, the problem that I finally developed a recipe
for, namely, thinking you're in the SE, hitting backspace or delete and
instead wiping the object whose script you thought you were editing, etc.

I would love the IDE to be multithreaded, and I would love to have
multithreading as an option in projects I build, but that's an animal that
should wait until 9.  8 is already meandering enough, already.

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:09 PM, Richard Gaskin <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Monte Goulding wrote:
> > Would moving the script editor to a separate process solve any
> > problems we know about?
>
> That does seem to be the question at hand here.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
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>



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On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Richard Gaskin
Mike Kerner wrote:

 > Having the various tools and palettes be in separate threads would
 > solve a variety of problems, IMHO, including having variables and
 > properties in danger of getting stamped due to instances and scope
 > being mixed, the need for so many front scripts, the problem that I
 > finally developed a recipe for, namely, thinking you're in the SE,
 > hitting backspace or delete and instead wiping the object whose
 > script you thought you were editing, etc.

That bug wasn't limited to the Script Editor; I've had it happen when
deleting object names in the Inspector, watching it delete the object
instead.

That was recently fixed, no?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Mike Kerner
no. I came up with a recipe that the team could repeat, and then use to
work on figuring out what's going on, so it's in process.

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:49 PM, Richard Gaskin <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Mike Kerner wrote:
>
> > Having the various tools and palettes be in separate threads would
> > solve a variety of problems, IMHO, including having variables and
> > properties in danger of getting stamped due to instances and scope
> > being mixed, the need for so many front scripts, the problem that I
> > finally developed a recipe for, namely, thinking you're in the SE,
> > hitting backspace or delete and instead wiping the object whose
> > script you thought you were editing, etc.
>
> That bug wasn't limited to the Script Editor; I've had it happen when
> deleting object names in the Inspector, watching it delete the object
> instead.
>
> That was recently fixed, no?
>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
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> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
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On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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glx2

mwieder
In reply to this post by Peter Haworth
On 10/22/2015 05:05 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
> Well there's Mark Wieder's GLX2 editor plugin
>    Mark?

Sheesh. I've been without internet at home for the last couple of days
(dead dsl modem) and relying on gmane for list access. This thread has
gotten long in the tooth, so excuse me if I don't read most of it.

The latest beta is online at
https://bitbucket.org/mwieder/glx2/downloads

but a big caveat: it not only hangs on linux in LC7/8, it takes all the
cpu cycles with it. Works fine on osx in any version of LiveCode, and
works fine on linux with a pre-7 engine. The team is currently
scratching their collective heads about this, and there's not much I can
do on my end. LC8-dp8 may shed some clues.

...and please don't call it *my* editor. I'm the caretaker, and I've
been making all the code changes for the last few years, but the design
and concept is Jerry Daniels'.

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]

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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

mwieder
In reply to this post by Monte Goulding
On 10/22/2015 02:08 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> I’ve thought about this too. Actually in Atom we can have some code run whenever the file is saved. This seems nicer than constantly checking if the file is changed in a LC plugin. Should be fairly easy to setup something that sends datagrams back to a LC plugin on save.

Yes, that's how PowerDebug can debug standalone apps as well, so as a
proof of concept I can say that passing packets around is a viable way
to go.

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]

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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Trevor DeVore
In reply to this post by Monte Goulding
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Monte Goulding <[hidden email]
> wrote:

>
> I’m not doing much with LCB yet but I suspect getting live script errors
> in that will be a bit of a boon too.
>

I've been using it tonight. It is awesome. Big productivity boost for LCB
development.

Thanks Monte and Peter!

--
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ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com    -    www.clarify-it.com
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Re: glx2

Terry Judd-2
In reply to this post by mwieder
I¹d forgotten how much I liked GLX2. Thanks so much for maintaining it
Mark.

Terry...

On 23/10/2015 1:11 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Wieder"
<[hidden email] on behalf of
[hidden email]> wrote:

>On 10/22/2015 05:05 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
>> Well there's Mark Wieder's GLX2 editor plugin
>>    Mark?
>
>Sheesh. I've been without internet at home for the last couple of days
>(dead dsl modem) and relying on gmane for list access. This thread has
>gotten long in the tooth, so excuse me if I don't read most of it.
>
>The latest beta is online at
>https://bitbucket.org/mwieder/glx2/downloads
>
>but a big caveat: it not only hangs on linux in LC7/8, it takes all the
>cpu cycles with it. Works fine on osx in any version of LiveCode, and
>works fine on linux with a pre-7 engine. The team is currently
>scratching their collective heads about this, and there's not much I can
>do on my end. LC8-dp8 may shed some clues.
>
>...and please don't call it *my* editor. I'm the caretaker, and I've
>been making all the code changes for the last few years, but the design
>and concept is Jerry Daniels'.
>
>--
>  Mark Wieder
>  [hidden email]
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>[hidden email]
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Peter TB Brett
In reply to this post by Monte Goulding


On 22/10/2015 22:15, Monte Goulding wrote:
>
>> On 23 Oct 2015, at 3:17 am, Peter Haworth <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The script editor ( and TextMate) automatically indent after
>> if/repeat/switch statements, Atom doesn't.  I know it has snippets that
>> will insert a complete if block with indentation but if I simply type an if
>> statement followed by return, no indentation.
>
> This should be possible.

Atom isn't the IDE script editor, and it isn't TextMate.  If possible,
we should match the "usual" behaviour of Atom.  This probably includes
properly indenting block templates. ;-)

>> The other one is if I press the tab key in the IDE Script Editor, all my
>> code is properly indented and aligned.  I would guess that's too specific
>> for Atom to be able to handle, but I miss that feature.
>
> One problem here is tab is used to jump to fields in auto-completed snippets. It should be feasible to have some other key combo trigger a re-indent of the file. It may be that atom already has a standard key combo for this… In most IDEs this is a contextual menu option rather than a standard behavior. I image if you were in a team and using different editors that had slight differences in the re-ident behavior then it would make a real mess of you git history…
>

In LCB files, Edit->Lines->Auto Indent will properly indent and align
the selection (or the whole file if nothing is selected).  This doesn't
currently work for LiveCode Script files, probably because the
indentation rules aren't quite right.  I've filed an issue:

https://github.com/peter-b/atom-language-livecode/issues/16

You can edit your Atom keymap to add a keybinding for Auto Indent, if
you want.
https://atom.io/docs/latest/using-atom-basic-customization#customizing-key-bindings

I find the IDE editor's auto-indentation behaviour pretty obnoxious (it
regularly screws up the formatting in my comments), so I'll be happy to
*not* have it in the Atom package.

                               Peter

--
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LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode

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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

Peter TB Brett
In reply to this post by Bob Sneidar-2
On 22/10/2015 18:33, Bob Sneidar wrote:

> So am I supposed to copy scripts back and forth, or is Atom supposed
> to be able to jack into my Livecode stack and read the scripts in the
> individual objects? Don't see how that is possible, and I don't see
> how it would be better, or that much better to use Atom as an
> alternative script editor for LC. Perhaps for LC server.

This is not supposed to replace the in-IDE script editor.  It's intended
for quick tweaks to script-only stacks, for writing LiveCode server
scripts, and for editing LiveCode Builder source code.

                                  Peter


--
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LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode

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