Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

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Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

ScottR
Does anybody know if there's some trick or secret to getting sounds to play
asynchronously along with events on Windows?

I have a stack that supplements user interaction with audio feedback:
clicks, chimes, etc.  I'm finding that all events are delayed by the use of
sound, in that the events don't trigger until the sound has finished
playing.  The sounds are imported WAV files of the correct sample rate/bits
(they play fine).  If I disable sound playback, all UI events respond as
expected.

It's been a while since I built anything with audio on Windows -- maybe I
just never ran into this ‹ but the app is unusable when audio is enabled.
On OS X, everything works fine without delays, so I don't believe there's
any problem with the stack.

Am I missing something?  Is audio feedback just not doable on Windows
without resorting to an external?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

Chris Sheffield-4
I want to say using the "play" command with imported files is blocking on one of the platforms (Windows?) and always has been, but I could be wrong about that. Can you try using a player with external files instead, or do you have to use imported files?

Chris


--
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally, Inc.
www.readnaturally.com



On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Does anybody know if there's some trick or secret to getting sounds to play
> asynchronously along with events on Windows?
>
> I have a stack that supplements user interaction with audio feedback:
> clicks, chimes, etc.  I'm finding that all events are delayed by the use of
> sound, in that the events don't trigger until the sound has finished
> playing.  The sounds are imported WAV files of the correct sample rate/bits
> (they play fine).  If I disable sound playback, all UI events respond as
> expected.
>
> It's been a while since I built anything with audio on Windows -- maybe I
> just never ran into this ‹ but the app is unusable when audio is enabled.
> On OS X, everything works fine without delays, so I don't believe there's
> any problem with the stack.
>
> Am I missing something?  Is audio feedback just not doable on Windows
> without resorting to an external?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX Design
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

Robert Sneidar
In reply to this post by ScottR
Didn't someone make a plugin for quicktime because of this? I suspect playing sounds with LC's built in sound support is going to be part of the whole one thread LC is running. An external would be the only way to get asynchronous sound.

Bob


On Jan 15, 2013, at 10:04 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Does anybody know if there's some trick or secret to getting sounds to play
> asynchronously along with events on Windows?
>
> I have a stack that supplements user interaction with audio feedback:
> clicks, chimes, etc.  I'm finding that all events are delayed by the use of
> sound, in that the events don't trigger until the sound has finished
> playing.  The sounds are imported WAV files of the correct sample rate/bits
> (they play fine).  If I disable sound playback, all UI events respond as
> expected.
>
> It's been a while since I built anything with audio on Windows -- maybe I
> just never ran into this ‹ but the app is unusable when audio is enabled.
> On OS X, everything works fine without delays, so I don't believe there's
> any problem with the stack.
>
> Am I missing something?  Is audio feedback just not doable on Windows
> without resorting to an external?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX Design
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

ScottR
In reply to this post by Chris Sheffield-4
Hi Chris:

I'm pretty sure the only way to use external files is if QT is installed,
which I'd rather not have to force on users, but it may come to that.

I'm just kind of shocked.  It's 2013 and LiveCode is still in the dinosaur
age when it comes to audio.  :-/

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design




On 1/15/13 10:17 AM, "Chris Sheffield" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I want to say using the "play" command with imported files is blocking on
>one of the platforms (Windows?) and always has been, but I could be wrong
>about that. Can you try using a player with external files instead, or do
>you have to use imported files?
>
>Chris
>
>
>--
>Chris Sheffield
>Read Naturally, Inc.
>www.readnaturally.com
>
>
>
>On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Does anybody know if there's some trick or secret to getting sounds to
>>play
>> asynchronously along with events on Windows?
>>
>> I have a stack that supplements user interaction with audio feedback:
>> clicks, chimes, etc.  I'm finding that all events are delayed by the
>>use of
>> sound, in that the events don't trigger until the sound has finished
>> playing.  The sounds are imported WAV files of the correct sample
>>rate/bits
>> (they play fine).  If I disable sound playback, all UI events respond as
>> expected.
>>
>> It's been a while since I built anything with audio on Windows -- maybe
>>I
>> just never ran into this ‹ but the app is unusable when audio is
>>enabled.
>> On OS X, everything works fine without delays, so I don't believe
>>there's
>> any problem with the stack.
>>
>> Am I missing something?  Is audio feedback just not doable on Windows
>> without resorting to an external?
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
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>[hidden email]
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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

ScottR
In reply to this post by Robert Sneidar
Hi Bob:

Yeah, there's Franklin Audio which the Paradigma guys put out a while back
-- I'm trying to get back up to speed. I just don't remember audio on
Windows being this limited.

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design




On 1/15/13 10:23 AM, "Robert Sneidar" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Didn't someone make a plugin for quicktime because of this? I suspect
>playing sounds with LC's built in sound support is going to be part of
>the whole one thread LC is running. An external would be the only way to
>get asynchronous sound.
>
>Bob
>
>
>On Jan 15, 2013, at 10:04 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>
>> Does anybody know if there's some trick or secret to getting sounds to
>>play
>> asynchronously along with events on Windows?
>>
>> I have a stack that supplements user interaction with audio feedback:
>> clicks, chimes, etc.  I'm finding that all events are delayed by the
>>use of
>> sound, in that the events don't trigger until the sound has finished
>> playing.  The sounds are imported WAV files of the correct sample
>>rate/bits
>> (they play fine).  If I disable sound playback, all UI events respond as
>> expected.
>>
>> It's been a while since I built anything with audio on Windows -- maybe
>>I
>> just never ran into this ‹ but the app is unusable when audio is
>>enabled.
>> On OS X, everything works fine without delays, so I don't believe
>>there's
>> any problem with the stack.
>>
>> Am I missing something?  Is audio feedback just not doable on Windows
>> without resorting to an external?
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
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>[hidden email]
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
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>



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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by Chris Sheffield-4
On 1/15/13 12:17 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote:
> I want to say using the "play" command with imported files is
> blocking on one of the platforms (Windows?) and always has been, but
> I could be wrong about that.

It blocked for me on Android too.


--
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HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

Chris Sheffield-4
In reply to this post by ScottR
Unless something has changed in the last couple years, external audio should work just fine using a player object, even if QT is not installed. Read Naturally has a desktop application (it's kind of old and outdated now) but it supported Windows and Mac. We recommended QT on Windows, but it wasn't required. Having it installed made things a bit easier (seems like there were some limitations if it wasn't), but audio playback worked regardless. So it might be worth a try.

On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Chris:
>
> I'm pretty sure the only way to use external files is if QT is installed,
> which I'd rather not have to force on users, but it may come to that.
>
> I'm just kind of shocked.  It's 2013 and LiveCode is still in the dinosaur
> age when it comes to audio.  :-/
>
> Thanks & Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX Design
>
>
>
>
> On 1/15/13 10:17 AM, "Chris Sheffield" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I want to say using the "play" command with imported files is blocking on
>> one of the platforms (Windows?) and always has been, but I could be wrong
>> about that. Can you try using a player with external files instead, or do
>> you have to use imported files?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Sheffield
>> Read Naturally, Inc.
>> www.readnaturally.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Does anybody know if there's some trick or secret to getting sounds to
>>> play
>>> asynchronously along with events on Windows?
>>>
>>> I have a stack that supplements user interaction with audio feedback:
>>> clicks, chimes, etc.  I'm finding that all events are delayed by the
>>> use of
>>> sound, in that the events don't trigger until the sound has finished
>>> playing.  The sounds are imported WAV files of the correct sample
>>> rate/bits
>>> (they play fine).  If I disable sound playback, all UI events respond as
>>> expected.
>>>
>>> It's been a while since I built anything with audio on Windows -- maybe
>>> I
>>> just never ran into this ‹ but the app is unusable when audio is
>>> enabled.
>>> On OS X, everything works fine without delays, so I don't believe
>>> there's
>>> any problem with the stack.
>>>
>>> Am I missing something?  Is audio feedback just not doable on Windows
>>> without resorting to an external?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Scott Rossi
>>> Creative Director
>>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>
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> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

ScottR
Hi Chris:

Over here, when I set the dontUseQT to true, the player (which has the
file path of a WAV assigned) displays with no controller and scripting
"start player 1" results in "could not open video player", whereas this
works when QT is normally enabled.  Maybe the result is different on a
system that truly has no QT.

I might be wrong, but I don't think this has worked for a long time, if
ever.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design




On 1/15/13 11:36 AM, "Chris Sheffield" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Unless something has changed in the last couple years, external audio
>should work just fine using a player object, even if QT is not installed.
>Read Naturally has a desktop application (it's kind of old and outdated
>now) but it supported Windows and Mac. We recommended QT on Windows, but
>it wasn't required. Having it installed made things a bit easier (seems
>like there were some limitations if it wasn't), but audio playback worked
>regardless. So it might be worth a try.
>
>On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Chris:
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the only way to use external files is if QT is
>>installed,
>> which I'd rather not have to force on users, but it may come to that.
>>
>> I'm just kind of shocked.  It's 2013 and LiveCode is still in the
>>dinosaur
>> age when it comes to audio.  :-/
>>
>> Thanks & Regards,
>>
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/15/13 10:17 AM, "Chris Sheffield" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to say using the "play" command with imported files is blocking
>>>on
>>> one of the platforms (Windows?) and always has been, but I could be
>>>wrong
>>> about that. Can you try using a player with external files instead, or
>>>do
>>> you have to use imported files?
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Sheffield
>>> Read Naturally, Inc.
>>> www.readnaturally.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Does anybody know if there's some trick or secret to getting sounds to
>>>> play
>>>> asynchronously along with events on Windows?
>>>>
>>>> I have a stack that supplements user interaction with audio feedback:
>>>> clicks, chimes, etc.  I'm finding that all events are delayed by the
>>>> use of
>>>> sound, in that the events don't trigger until the sound has finished
>>>> playing.  The sounds are imported WAV files of the correct sample
>>>> rate/bits
>>>> (they play fine).  If I disable sound playback, all UI events respond
>>>>as
>>>> expected.
>>>>
>>>> It's been a while since I built anything with audio on Windows --
>>>>maybe
>>>> I
>>>> just never ran into this ‹ but the app is unusable when audio is
>>>> enabled.
>>>> On OS X, everything works fine without delays, so I don't believe
>>>> there's
>>>> any problem with the stack.
>>>>
>>>> Am I missing something?  Is audio feedback just not doable on Windows
>>>> without resorting to an external?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Scott Rossi
>>>> Creative Director
>>>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

Chris Sheffield-4
Hmm, interesting. I'm trying to remember how we did it. It's been some time ago.

I just reviewed my code from nearly three years ago. Yikes! :-) So it looks like originally we checked the QTVersion to determine if QT was installed or not. This worked fine on a Mac, since QT was always installed. But in April of 2010, I commented out the code that does the QT check. Turns out it caused more problems, and actually caused the engine to attempt to load QT even though it wasn't installed. As a result, audio playback was erratic. So basically, if QT turns out to be installed, great. The engine will make use of QT for playing back audio files through a player object. If QT is *not* installed, that should be fine too, as some version of WMP was usually always installed, and the engine would make use of that in that case. I do believe this still causes the player object to lose it's playback controls, so you can't really let the user control playback in that case, but our app didn't require that anyway.

So, I'm not sure if you have a machine available without QT installed, but if so, give it a try. Maybe you could set up a VM to try it in? I think it should work okay for you.

Good luck.

On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:17 PM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Chris:
>
> Over here, when I set the dontUseQT to true, the player (which has the
> file path of a WAV assigned) displays with no controller and scripting
> "start player 1" results in "could not open video player", whereas this
> works when QT is normally enabled.  Maybe the result is different on a
> system that truly has no QT.
>
> I might be wrong, but I don't think this has worked for a long time, if
> ever.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX Design
>
>
>
>
> On 1/15/13 11:36 AM, "Chris Sheffield" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Unless something has changed in the last couple years, external audio
>> should work just fine using a player object, even if QT is not installed.
>> Read Naturally has a desktop application (it's kind of old and outdated
>> now) but it supported Windows and Mac. We recommended QT on Windows, but
>> it wasn't required. Having it installed made things a bit easier (seems
>> like there were some limitations if it wasn't), but audio playback worked
>> regardless. So it might be worth a try.
>>
>> On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Chris:
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure the only way to use external files is if QT is
>>> installed,
>>> which I'd rather not have to force on users, but it may come to that.
>>>
>>> I'm just kind of shocked.  It's 2013 and LiveCode is still in the
>>> dinosaur
>>> age when it comes to audio.  :-/
>>>
>>> Thanks & Regards,
>>>
>>> Scott Rossi
>>> Creative Director
>>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/15/13 10:17 AM, "Chris Sheffield" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I want to say using the "play" command with imported files is blocking
>>>> on
>>>> one of the platforms (Windows?) and always has been, but I could be
>>>> wrong
>>>> about that. Can you try using a player with external files instead, or
>>>> do
>>>> you have to use imported files?
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Sheffield
>>>> Read Naturally, Inc.
>>>> www.readnaturally.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Does anybody know if there's some trick or secret to getting sounds to
>>>>> play
>>>>> asynchronously along with events on Windows?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a stack that supplements user interaction with audio feedback:
>>>>> clicks, chimes, etc.  I'm finding that all events are delayed by the
>>>>> use of
>>>>> sound, in that the events don't trigger until the sound has finished
>>>>> playing.  The sounds are imported WAV files of the correct sample
>>>>> rate/bits
>>>>> (they play fine).  If I disable sound playback, all UI events respond
>>>>> as
>>>>> expected.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's been a while since I built anything with audio on Windows --
>>>>> maybe
>>>>> I
>>>>> just never ran into this ‹ but the app is unusable when audio is
>>>>> enabled.
>>>>> On OS X, everything works fine without delays, so I don't believe
>>>>> there's
>>>>> any problem with the stack.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I missing something?  Is audio feedback just not doable on Windows
>>>>> without resorting to an external?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Rossi
>>>>> Creative Director
>>>>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by ScottR
On 1/15/13 2:17 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
> Hi Chris:
>
> Over here, when I set the dontUseQT to true, the player (which has the
> file path of a WAV assigned) displays with no controller and scripting
> "start player 1" results in "could not open video player", whereas this
> works when QT is normally enabled.  Maybe the result is different on a
> system that truly has no QT.

Lack of movie controls is going to kill one of my projects for Windows
deployment. I am not allowed to require QT. Is there a workaround that
doesn't involve me creating my own interface?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

J. Landman Gay
On 1/15/13 3:33 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 1/15/13 2:17 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>> Hi Chris:
>>
>> Over here, when I set the dontUseQT to true, the player (which has the
>> file path of a WAV assigned) displays with no controller and scripting
>> "start player 1" results in "could not open video player", whereas this
>> works when QT is normally enabled.  Maybe the result is different on a
>> system that truly has no QT.
>
> Lack of movie controls is going to kill one of my projects for Windows
> deployment. I am not allowed to require QT. Is there a workaround that
> doesn't involve me creating my own interface?
>

To add to that, the dictionary doesn't mention any restrictions in the
"showController" entry. It also says that the controller is dependent on
alwaysBuffer, which must be false to allow a controller. So now I'm
confused. It looks like a controller should be possible on a non-QT
Windows machine but I can't tell.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

Klaus on-rev
Hi Jaqueline,

Am 15.01.2013 um 22:52 schrieb "J. Landman Gay" <[hidden email]>:

> On 1/15/13 3:33 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> On 1/15/13 2:17 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>>> Hi Chris:
>>>
>>> Over here, when I set the dontUseQT to true, the player (which has the
>>> file path of a WAV assigned) displays with no controller and scripting
>>> "start player 1" results in "could not open video player", whereas this
>>> works when QT is normally enabled.  Maybe the result is different on a
>>> system that truly has no QT.

I never got "set the dontUseQT to true" to work on Windows.

>> Lack of movie controls is going to kill one of my projects for Windows
>> deployment. I am not allowed to require QT. Is there a workaround that
>> doesn't involve me creating my own interface?
> To add to that, the dictionary doesn't mention any restrictions in the "showController" entry. It also says that the controller is dependent on alwaysBuffer, which must be false to allow a controller. So now I'm confused. It looks like a controller should be possible on a non-QT Windows machine but I can't tell.

The "controller" part of the player object is a QuickTime feature and not available without it.

> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Best

Klaus

--
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http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

J. Landman Gay
On 1/15/13 5:40 PM, Klaus on-rev wrote:

> The "controller" part of the player object is a QuickTime feature and
> not available without it.

Thanks Klaus. It's not what I wanted to hear, but it's good to know
ahead of time.

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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

ScottR
In reply to this post by Chris Sheffield-4
Even if the player option could work, there's the issue of latency.  It
takes a noticeable amount of time to load an external sound in the player
and play it.  This is one of the benefits of using embedded sounds --
speedier playback (the tradeoff being only one sound played at a time).  I
suppose I could have multiple players all preloaded with the sounds I
need, but what a chore.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design




On 1/15/13 12:55 PM, "Chris Sheffield" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hmm, interesting. I'm trying to remember how we did it. It's been some
>time ago.
>
>I just reviewed my code from nearly three years ago. Yikes! :-) So it
>looks like originally we checked the QTVersion to determine if QT was
>installed or not. This worked fine on a Mac, since QT was always
>installed. But in April of 2010, I commented out the code that does the
>QT check. Turns out it caused more problems, and actually caused the
>engine to attempt to load QT even though it wasn't installed. As a
>result, audio playback was erratic. So basically, if QT turns out to be
>installed, great. The engine will make use of QT for playing back audio
>files through a player object. If QT is *not* installed, that should be
>fine too, as some version of WMP was usually always installed, and the
>engine would make use of that in that case. I do believe this still
>causes the player object to lose it's playback controls, so you can't
>really let the user control playback in that case, but our app didn't
>require that anyway.
>
>So, I'm not sure if you have a machine available without QT installed,
>but if so, give it a try. Maybe you could set up a VM to try it in? I
>think it should work okay for you.
>
>Good luck.
>
>On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:17 PM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Chris:
>>
>> Over here, when I set the dontUseQT to true, the player (which has the
>> file path of a WAV assigned) displays with no controller and scripting
>> "start player 1" results in "could not open video player", whereas this
>> works when QT is normally enabled.  Maybe the result is different on a
>> system that truly has no QT.
>>
>> I might be wrong, but I don't think this has worked for a long time, if
>> ever.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/15/13 11:36 AM, "Chris Sheffield" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Unless something has changed in the last couple years, external audio
>>> should work just fine using a player object, even if QT is not
>>>installed.
>>> Read Naturally has a desktop application (it's kind of old and outdated
>>> now) but it supported Windows and Mac. We recommended QT on Windows,
>>>but
>>> it wasn't required. Having it installed made things a bit easier (seems
>>> like there were some limitations if it wasn't), but audio playback
>>>worked
>>> regardless. So it might be worth a try.
>>>
>>> On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Chris:
>>>>
>>>> I'm pretty sure the only way to use external files is if QT is
>>>> installed,
>>>> which I'd rather not have to force on users, but it may come to that.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just kind of shocked.  It's 2013 and LiveCode is still in the
>>>> dinosaur
>>>> age when it comes to audio.  :-/
>>>>
>>>> Thanks & Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Scott Rossi
>>>> Creative Director
>>>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/15/13 10:17 AM, "Chris Sheffield" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I want to say using the "play" command with imported files is
>>>>>blocking
>>>>> on
>>>>> one of the platforms (Windows?) and always has been, but I could be
>>>>> wrong
>>>>> about that. Can you try using a player with external files instead,
>>>>>or
>>>>> do
>>>>> you have to use imported files?
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Chris Sheffield
>>>>> Read Naturally, Inc.
>>>>> www.readnaturally.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anybody know if there's some trick or secret to getting sounds
>>>>>>to
>>>>>> play
>>>>>> asynchronously along with events on Windows?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a stack that supplements user interaction with audio
>>>>>>feedback:
>>>>>> clicks, chimes, etc.  I'm finding that all events are delayed by the
>>>>>> use of
>>>>>> sound, in that the events don't trigger until the sound has finished
>>>>>> playing.  The sounds are imported WAV files of the correct sample
>>>>>> rate/bits
>>>>>> (they play fine).  If I disable sound playback, all UI events
>>>>>>respond
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> expected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's been a while since I built anything with audio on Windows --
>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> just never ran into this ‹ but the app is unusable when audio is
>>>>>> enabled.
>>>>>> On OS X, everything works fine without delays, so I don't believe
>>>>>> there's
>>>>>> any problem with the stack.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am I missing something?  Is audio feedback just not doable on
>>>>>>Windows
>>>>>> without resorting to an external?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott Rossi
>>>>>> Creative Director
>>>>>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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>>
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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

Chris Sheffield-4
Do you have this latency with all sound files played, or just the first one played?

The reason I ask is because I've noticed that sometimes there is a delay while the very first sound file is "loaded" (maybe buffered is a better term; not sure). Anyway, a trick I've used in the past (not sure who gave me the idea initially) is to play a short sound file with nothing but a second (or even less) of silence when the stack/application loads. This gets the sound engine going and I don't usually experience any delays after that. I've usually done this in the preOpenCard handler of the first card in the stack.

Not sure if that's something that would help or not, but thought I'd throw it out there.

Chris


On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:23 PM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Even if the player option could work, there's the issue of latency.  It
> takes a noticeable amount of time to load an external sound in the player
> and play it.  This is one of the benefits of using embedded sounds --
> speedier playback (the tradeoff being only one sound played at a time).  I
> suppose I could have multiple players all preloaded with the sounds I
> need, but what a chore.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX Design
>
>
>
>
> On 1/15/13 12:55 PM, "Chris Sheffield" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hmm, interesting. I'm trying to remember how we did it. It's been some
>> time ago.
>>
>> I just reviewed my code from nearly three years ago. Yikes! :-) So it
>> looks like originally we checked the QTVersion to determine if QT was
>> installed or not. This worked fine on a Mac, since QT was always
>> installed. But in April of 2010, I commented out the code that does the
>> QT check. Turns out it caused more problems, and actually caused the
>> engine to attempt to load QT even though it wasn't installed. As a
>> result, audio playback was erratic. So basically, if QT turns out to be
>> installed, great. The engine will make use of QT for playing back audio
>> files through a player object. If QT is *not* installed, that should be
>> fine too, as some version of WMP was usually always installed, and the
>> engine would make use of that in that case. I do believe this still
>> causes the player object to lose it's playback controls, so you can't
>> really let the user control playback in that case, but our app didn't
>> require that anyway.
>>
>> So, I'm not sure if you have a machine available without QT installed,
>> but if so, give it a try. Maybe you could set up a VM to try it in? I
>> think it should work okay for you.
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:17 PM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Chris:
>>>
>>> Over here, when I set the dontUseQT to true, the player (which has the
>>> file path of a WAV assigned) displays with no controller and scripting
>>> "start player 1" results in "could not open video player", whereas this
>>> works when QT is normally enabled.  Maybe the result is different on a
>>> system that truly has no QT.
>>>
>>> I might be wrong, but I don't think this has worked for a long time, if
>>> ever.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Scott Rossi
>>> Creative Director
>>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/15/13 11:36 AM, "Chris Sheffield" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Unless something has changed in the last couple years, external audio
>>>> should work just fine using a player object, even if QT is not
>>>> installed.
>>>> Read Naturally has a desktop application (it's kind of old and outdated
>>>> now) but it supported Windows and Mac. We recommended QT on Windows,
>>>> but
>>>> it wasn't required. Having it installed made things a bit easier (seems
>>>> like there were some limitations if it wasn't), but audio playback
>>>> worked
>>>> regardless. So it might be worth a try.
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Chris:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm pretty sure the only way to use external files is if QT is
>>>>> installed,
>>>>> which I'd rather not have to force on users, but it may come to that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just kind of shocked.  It's 2013 and LiveCode is still in the
>>>>> dinosaur
>>>>> age when it comes to audio.  :-/
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks & Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Rossi
>>>>> Creative Director
>>>>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/15/13 10:17 AM, "Chris Sheffield" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to say using the "play" command with imported files is
>>>>>> blocking
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> one of the platforms (Windows?) and always has been, but I could be
>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>> about that. Can you try using a player with external files instead,
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> you have to use imported files?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Chris Sheffield
>>>>>> Read Naturally, Inc.
>>>>>> www.readnaturally.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Scott Rossi <[hidden email]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does anybody know if there's some trick or secret to getting sounds
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> play
>>>>>>> asynchronously along with events on Windows?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a stack that supplements user interaction with audio
>>>>>>> feedback:
>>>>>>> clicks, chimes, etc.  I'm finding that all events are delayed by the
>>>>>>> use of
>>>>>>> sound, in that the events don't trigger until the sound has finished
>>>>>>> playing.  The sounds are imported WAV files of the correct sample
>>>>>>> rate/bits
>>>>>>> (they play fine).  If I disable sound playback, all UI events
>>>>>>> respond
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> expected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's been a while since I built anything with audio on Windows --
>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> just never ran into this ‹ but the app is unusable when audio is
>>>>>>> enabled.
>>>>>>> On OS X, everything works fine without delays, so I don't believe
>>>>>>> there's
>>>>>>> any problem with the stack.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am I missing something?  Is audio feedback just not doable on
>>>>>>> Windows
>>>>>>> without resorting to an external?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scott Rossi
>>>>>>> Creative Director
>>>>>>> Tactile Media, UX Design
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

tbodine
In reply to this post by ScottR
Here's a link to the Franklin Audio external page.  Is that the only solution out there?

I'm concerned about the audio issues on Windows, too. It could sideline a number of projects I have in the works.

-- Tom Bodine
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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by Klaus on-rev
On 1/15/13 5:40 PM, Klaus on-rev wrote:

> The "controller" part of the player object is a QuickTime feature and
> not available without it.

Klaus, do all the script commands work on Windows even though there is
no controller? I.e., can a script pause, set the currentTime, etc. when
QT is not installed?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

Klaus on-rev
Hi Jaqueline,

Am 16.01.2013 um 19:08 schrieb "J. Landman Gay" <[hidden email]>:

> On 1/15/13 5:40 PM, Klaus on-rev wrote:
>
>> The "controller" part of the player object is a QuickTime feature and
>> not available without it.
>
> Klaus, do all the script commands work on Windows even though there is no controller? I.e., can a script pause, set the currentTime, etc. when QT is not installed?

since I never got "set the dontuseQT to false" to work on Windows, I never had the chance to check this, sorry.
But it is said that the basic commands like start and stop work ;-)

> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Best

Klaus

--
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http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

J. Landman Gay
On 1/16/13 12:14 PM, Klaus on-rev wrote:

> Hi Jaqueline,
>
> Am 16.01.2013 um 19:08 schrieb "J. Landman Gay" <[hidden email]>:
>
>> On 1/15/13 5:40 PM, Klaus on-rev wrote:
>>
>>> The "controller" part of the player object is a QuickTime feature and
>>> not available without it.
>>
>> Klaus, do all the script commands work on Windows even though there is no controller? I.e., can a script pause, set the currentTime, etc. when QT is not installed?
>
> since I never got "set the dontuseQT to false" to work on Windows, I never had the chance to check this, sorry.
> But it is said that the basic commands like start and stop work ;-)

The dictionary doesn't show any restrictions on those, but I guess I'll
just have to try it and see. Thanks, Klaus.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Asynchronous Audio on Windows?

ScottR
In reply to this post by tbodine
That's the route I'm taking.  At this point my plan is to load all sounds into buffers and have them available at all times.  My *hope* is that this setup is essentially the same as having a bunch of embedded sounds loaded in a stack.  It's a bit overkill as the external is designed to manage 3d spatial audio, but performance during click events appears to be way better than native LiveCode.

But there's another potential issue that needs clarification from the developer. The external relies on a sound library called openAL, and you have to run an installer to get things set up for LiveCode, which the instructions say "may require a restart".  I really hope this is just for development reasons and doesn't have to be passed on to users of a stack that contains the audio external.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design

On Jan 16, 2013, at 9:25 AM, tbodine <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Here's a link to the  Franklin Audio external page
> <http://www.franklin3d.com/products/franklin-audio>  .  Is that the only
> solution out there?
>
> I'm concerned about the audio issues on Windows, too. It could sideline a
> number of projects I have in the works.
>
> -- Tom Bodine
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Asynchronous-Audio-on-Windows-tp4658908p4658974.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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