Beachball cursor Help

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Beachball cursor Help

Joe Lewis Wilkins
Hi all,

Instead of the b/w cursor "busy", I'd love to use the more colorful beachball. Anyone know how that is accomplished?
TIA
Joe Wilkins





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Re: Beachball cursor Help

xtalkprogrammer
Joe,

No, you don't, because people would start killing your application or pressing the power button on their computer until it restarts.

What you really want is a decent interface with a circular progress indicator or a progress bar to indicate progress and the time needed to finish the task.

Now, if you still want it, you can use a window shape and pictures of the beachball cursor. You can find those pictures on the internet using your favorite search machine.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

Economy-x-Talk on Facebook now and get a free Color Converter license http://qurl.tk/gn (read the conditions)

On 8 nov 2010, at 16:46, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Instead of the b/w cursor "busy", I'd love to use the more colorful beachball. Anyone know how that is accomplished?
> TIA
> Joe Wilkins

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Kind regards,

Drs. Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consultancy and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
Facebook: http://facebook.com/LiveCode.Beginner
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Re: Beachball cursor Help

Joe Lewis Wilkins
Mark, I understand what you're saying, but when my application starts up it takes maybe 5 to 10 seconds to load data the user has previously saved or default data. I like to have a "simple" indication that something is happening. I suppose I could use the wristwatch, but nothing as complicated as a progress bar. Thanks for the input.

Joe Wilkins
---- Mark Schonewille <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Joe,
>
> No, you don't, because people would start killing your application or pressing the power button on their computer until it restarts.
>
> What you really want is a decent interface with a circular progress indicator or a progress bar to indicate progress and the time needed to finish the task.
>
> Now, if you still want it, you can use a window shape and pictures of the beachball cursor. You can find those pictures on the internet using your favorite search machine.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
> KvK: 50277553
>
> Economy-x-Talk on Facebook now and get a free Color Converter license http://qurl.tk/gn (read the conditions)
>
> On 8 nov 2010, at 16:46, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Instead of the b/w cursor "busy", I'd love to use the more colorful beachball. Anyone know how that is accomplished?
> > TIA
> > Joe Wilkins
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Re: Beachball cursor Help

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Joe Lewis Wilkins
pepetoo wrote:

 > Mark, I understand what you're saying, but when my application
 > starts up it takes maybe 5 to 10 seconds to load data the user
 > has previously saved or default data. I like to have a "simple"
 > indication that something is happening. I suppose I could use
 > the wristwatch, but nothing as complicated as a progress bar.

You could replace the images in the cursors stack with more colorful
ones, but as Mark pointed out the problem is that the color beachball is
used by the OS to indicate an unresponsive app, so using that will
prompt some users to force-quit the app thinking it's having a problem.

I would go for the progress bar.  It takes only a few minutes to set up,
and lets users know exactly where they are in that long wait.

Here's a rough sketch of how you might use a progress bar from a routine
which has to process a lengthy data file line by line - this assumes
there's a scrollbar control named "progress" on the current stack:


on LoadDocument pFile
    put url ("file:"& pFile) into tData
    SetupProgress the number of lines of tData
    put 0 into i
    repeat for each line tLine in tData
        add 1 to i
        ShowProgress i
        --
        DoMyRecordLoadingStuffHere
    end repeat
    EndProgress
end LoadDocument


on SetupProgress pMax
    set the startValue of sb "progress" to 0
    set the endValue of sb "progress" to pMax
    set the thumbpos of sb "progress" to 0
    show db "progress"
end SetupProgress


on ShowProgress pVal
    -- only update every 100th time through loop,
    -- so that the OS overhead of rendering the
    -- progress bar doesn't slow things down;
    -- depending on the size of the data you may
    -- want to use another number instead of 100:
    if pVal mod 100 - 0 then
        set the thumbpos of sb "progress" to pVal
        wait 0 with messages -- allow redraw
    end if
end ShowProgress


on EndProgress
    set the thumbpos of sb "progress" to the endValue of sb "progress"
    hide sb "progress"
end EndProgress


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
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Re: Beachball cursor Help

Devin Asay
In reply to this post by Joe Lewis Wilkins
Joe,

I'd use a spinning daisy cursor. See http://ajaxload.info/ for a slick utility that will generate a custom animated gif for you.

Devin


On Nov 8, 2010, at 8:46 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Instead of the b/w cursor "busy", I'd love to use the more colorful beachball. Anyone know how that is accomplished?
> TIA
> Joe Wilkins
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: Beachball cursor Help

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Joe Lewis Wilkins
Jim Hurley kindly noted a misspelling in one of my example handlers.

This:

on SetupProgress pMax
      set the startValue of sb "progress" to 0
      set the endValue of sb "progress" to pMax
      set the thumbpos of sb "progress" to 0
      show db "progress" -- typo: this is a scrollbar, not a database :)
end SetupProgress


...should be:

on SetupProgress pMax
      set the startValue of sb "progress" to 0
      set the endValue of sb "progress" to pMax
      set the thumbpos of sb "progress" to 0
      show sb "progress" -- fixed
end SetupProgress


Thanks Jim!

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
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Re: Beachball cursor Help

AndyP
In reply to this post by Joe Lewis Wilkins
Hi Joe,

Instead of playing with cursors just show an animated gif during your loading loop.

EXAMPLE

on mouseUp  
   
set the visible of image id 1019 to true // set to your image id (initially hidden)

// demo loading start
   
repeat with tVarNum = 0 to 50000
put tVarNum into fld "FldCount"
wait 0 seconds with messages // important as gif will stall without this: put this in your loading loop
end repeat

// demo loading end
   
put "" into fld "FldCount"
 
set the visible of image id 1019 to false
end mouseUp

Sample with jazzy spinning gif attached.



Custom_Cursor.rev
Andy Piddock

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode

Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode

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Re: Beachball cursor Help

pmbrig
In reply to this post by Devin Asay
I'm just fooling around with trying out an animated cursor, and I  
can't get it to work. I tried importing an animated GIF then setting  
the cursor to it, but I only get what looks like an opaque white mask  
of the first frame of the GIF and no animation. Do I conclude that I  
have to cycle through the frames of the GIF explicitly via script? I  
would have thought that just setting the cursor to the image id number  
would take care of that. I can do this with a button icon -- just  
setting the icon of the button to the image ID of the GIF results in a  
nice animated button image. Why doesn't his work with a cursor?

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
[hidden email]
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


On Nov 8, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Devin Asay wrote:

> Joe,
>
> I'd use a spinning daisy cursor. See http://ajaxload.info/ for a  
> slick utility that will generate a custom animated gif for you.
>
> Devin
>
>
> On Nov 8, 2010, at 8:46 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Instead of the b/w cursor "busy", I'd love to use the more colorful  
>> beachball. Anyone know how that is accomplished?
>> TIA
>> Joe Wilkins
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Re: Beachball cursor Help

Devin Asay

On Nov 9, 2010, at 6:38 AM, Peter Brigham MD wrote:

> I'm just fooling around with trying out an animated cursor, and I  
> can't get it to work. I tried importing an animated GIF then setting  
> the cursor to it, but I only get what looks like an opaque white mask  
> of the first frame of the GIF and no animation. Do I conclude that I  
> have to cycle through the frames of the GIF explicitly via script? I  
> would have thought that just setting the cursor to the image id number  
> would take care of that. I can do this with a button icon -- just  
> setting the icon of the button to the image ID of the GIF results in a  
> nice animated button image. Why doesn't his work with a cursor?

Peter,

When I have used animated gifs, I've just shown then hidden an image object. Of course, that's not really the same because they don't follow your mouse movement like a mouse cursor.

I'm not sure exactly what's going on behind the scenes with the 'busy' cursor. I got curious and looked into it. The cursor icons are in a stack called "revCursors" for Windows and *nix, and a stack called "revMacCursors" for Mac OS. They're just image objects. I would think you could just replace the existing images with your own colorized ones, making sure the image ids match, and it should "just work".

That said, LiveCard 4.5 is supposed to have enhanced cursor support, including cursors with alpha blending. So it seems like you could just set the cursor to the image id of your choosing, and increment it in a repeat loop, just like 'set cursor to busy'. Not tested:

put 67890,67891,67892,67893,67894,67895,67896,67897 into tAnimCursor
repeat with i = 1 to 100
  put item i wrap (the number of items in tAnimCursor) of tAnimCursor into tCurrentCursor
  set the cursor to tCurrentCursor
  wait 10
end repeat

Seems like this ought to work.

Regards,

Devin


Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: Beachball cursor Help

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Joe Lewis Wilkins
Devin Asay wrote:

 > I'm not sure exactly what's going on behind the scenes with the
 > 'busy' cursor. I got curious and looked into it. The cursor icons
 > are in a stack called "revCursors" for Windows and *nix, and a
 > stack called "revMacCursors" for Mac OS. They're just image objects.
 > I would think you could just replace the existing images with your
 > own colorized ones, making sure the image ids match, and it should
 > "just work".

Yep - they're image IDs 16 through 23.

 > That said, LiveCard 4.5 is supposed to have enhanced cursor
 > support, including cursors with alpha blending. So it seems like
 > you could just set the cursor to the image id of your choosing,
 > and increment it in a repeat loop, just like 'set cursor to busy'.
 > Not tested:
 >
 > put 67890,67891,67892,67893,67894,67895,67896,67897 into tAnimCursor
 > repeat with i = 1 to 100
 >   put item i wrap (the number of items in tAnimCursor) of tAnimCursor
 >       into tCurrentCursor
 >   set the cursor to tCurrentCursor
 >   wait 10
 > end repeat
 >
 > Seems like this ought to work.

Or for reuse you could put that into a custom command that emulates the
way the "busy" token works, internally incrementing it like this (note
that this is off the cuff and as untested as yesterday's progress bar
stuff, so it may need similar fixes <g>:

-- Main app code:
on DoSomething
     repeat with i = 1 to 1000
        SetCustomBusyCursor
        --
        DoMainStuffHere
     end repeat
end DoSomething


-- Somewhere in your libraries:

local sCustomBusyCursors, sCurBusyCursor

on SetCustomBusyCursor
     -- Initialize if needed:
     if sCustomBusyCursors is empty then
        put  "67890,67891,67892,67893,67894,67895,67896,67897" \
           into sCustomBusyCursors
     end if
     -- Increment the cursor ID:
     add 1 to sCurBusyCursor
     if sCurBusyCursor > the number of items of sCustomBusyCursors then
        put 1 into sCurBusyCursor
     end if
     -- Do the deed:
     set the cursor to (item sCurBusyCursor of sCustomBusyCursors)
end SetCustomBusyCursor


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
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Re: Beachball cursor Help

pmbrig
In reply to this post by Devin Asay
On Nov 9, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Devin Asay wrote:

>
> On Nov 9, 2010, at 6:38 AM, Peter Brigham MD wrote:
>
>> I'm just fooling around with trying out an animated cursor, and I
>> can't get it to work. I tried importing an animated GIF then setting
>> the cursor to it, but I only get what looks like an opaque white mask
>> of the first frame of the GIF and no animation. Do I conclude that I
>> have to cycle through the frames of the GIF explicitly via script? I
>> would have thought that just setting the cursor to the image id  
>> number
>> would take care of that. I can do this with a button icon -- just
>> setting the icon of the button to the image ID of the GIF results  
>> in a
>> nice animated button image. Why doesn't his work with a cursor?
>
> Peter,
>
> When I have used animated gifs, I've just shown then hidden an image  
> object. Of course, that's not really the same because they don't  
> follow your mouse movement like a mouse cursor.
>
> I'm not sure exactly what's going on behind the scenes with the  
> 'busy' cursor. I got curious and looked into it. The cursor icons  
> are in a stack called "revCursors" for Windows and *nix, and a stack  
> called "revMacCursors" for Mac OS. They're just image objects. I  
> would think you could just replace the existing images with your own  
> colorized ones, making sure the image ids match, and it should "just  
> work".
>
> That said, LiveCard 4.5 is supposed to have enhanced cursor support,  
> including cursors with alpha blending.

I'm still using 4.0, since 4.5 crashes my most-often-used stack  
(reported to the support team, no word yet on resolution). I just  
tried out my little "test animated cursor" stack in 4.5 and what I get  
is a fixed cursor image (I assume the first image of the set). The one  
improvement over 4.0 is that the exact same handler in 4.0 changes the  
cursor to the mask (white) of the first image. At least 4.5 fills in  
the color. But no animation in either.

> So it seems like you could just set the cursor to the image id of  
> your choosing, and increment it in a repeat loop, just like 'set  
> cursor to busy'. Not tested:
>
> put 67890,67891,67892,67893,67894,67895,67896,67897 into tAnimCursor
> repeat with i = 1 to 100
>  put item i wrap (the number of items in tAnimCursor) of tAnimCursor  
> into tCurrentCursor
>  set the cursor to tCurrentCursor
>  wait 10
> end repeat
>
> Seems like this ought to work.

Well, OK, but I went ahead and used the http://ajaxload.info/ site to  
download a great animated GIF cursor. So what do I do with that to  
extract the individual images and list them separately in a loop? It  
does seem that setting a cursor to an animated GIF ought to work out  
of the box the way setting a button icon to an animated GIF does....  
But if there's a workaround for cursors I'd settle for that for now.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
[hidden email]
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



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Re: Beachball cursor Help

Devin Asay

On Nov 9, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Peter Brigham MD wrote:

> On Nov 9, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Devin Asay wrote:
>
>> So it seems like you could just set the cursor to the image id of  
>> your choosing, and increment it in a repeat loop, just like 'set  
>> cursor to busy'. Not tested:
>>
>> put 67890,67891,67892,67893,67894,67895,67896,67897 into tAnimCursor
>> repeat with i = 1 to 100
>> put item i wrap (the number of items in tAnimCursor) of tAnimCursor  
>> into tCurrentCursor
>> set the cursor to tCurrentCursor
>> wait 10
>> end repeat
>>
>> Seems like this ought to work.
>
> Well, OK, but I went ahead and used the http://ajaxload.info/ site to  
> download a great animated GIF cursor. So what do I do with that to  
> extract the individual images and list them separately in a loop? It  
> does seem that setting a cursor to an animated GIF ought to work out  
> of the box the way setting a button icon to an animated GIF does....  
> But if there's a workaround for cursors I'd settle for that for now.

If you open an animated GIF in Preview on OS X it should show each frame separately. You could save each frame separately, then import them all into rev, give them consecutive IDs and use a routine similar to the one above (or the one Richard G. posted) and it ought to work.

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: Beachball cursor Help

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by pmbrig
On 11/9/10 11:33 AM, Peter Brigham MD wrote:
> It
> does seem that setting a cursor to an animated GIF ought to work out of
> the box the way setting a button icon to an animated GIF does.... But if
> there's a workaround for cursors I'd settle for that for now.

I don't think animated cursors are supported. I believe the new color
cursor feature just translates standard image formats to the very
specific requirements that cursors have in LiveCode. We used to have to
do some of that ourselves, only with more limitations on color depth.
Gifs for sure won't work, because they will get translated to the
engine's internal format, so they are no longer gifs any more. Or,
that's my take on it anyway.

--
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HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Beachball cursor Help

pmbrig
In reply to this post by Devin Asay
On Nov 9, 2010, at 12:47 PM, Devin Asay wrote:

>
> On Nov 9, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Peter Brigham MD wrote:
>
>> On Nov 9, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Devin Asay wrote:
>>
>>> So it seems like you could just set the cursor to the image id of
>>> your choosing, and increment it in a repeat loop, just like 'set
>>> cursor to busy'. Not tested:
>>>
>>> put 67890,67891,67892,67893,67894,67895,67896,67897 into tAnimCursor
>>> repeat with i = 1 to 100
>>> put item i wrap (the number of items in tAnimCursor) of tAnimCursor
>>> into tCurrentCursor
>>> set the cursor to tCurrentCursor
>>> wait 10
>>> end repeat
>>>
>>> Seems like this ought to work.
>>
>> Well, OK, but I went ahead and used the http://ajaxload.info/ site to
>> download a great animated GIF cursor. So what do I do with that to
>> extract the individual images and list them separately in a loop? It
>> does seem that setting a cursor to an animated GIF ought to work out
>> of the box the way setting a button icon to an animated GIF does....
>> But if there's a workaround for cursors I'd settle for that for now.
>
> If you open an animated GIF in Preview on OS X it should show each  
> frame separately. You could save each frame separately, then import  
> them all into rev, give them consecutive IDs and use a routine  
> similar to the one above (or the one Richard G. posted) and it ought  
> to work.

Thanks, Devin.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
[hidden email]
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



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Re: Beachball cursor Help

pmbrig
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay
On Nov 9, 2010, at 1:36 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 11/9/10 11:33 AM, Peter Brigham MD wrote:
>> It
>> does seem that setting a cursor to an animated GIF ought to work  
>> out of
>> the box the way setting a button icon to an animated GIF does....  
>> But if
>> there's a workaround for cursors I'd settle for that for now.
>
> I don't think animated cursors are supported. I believe the new  
> color cursor feature just translates standard image formats to the  
> very specific requirements that cursors have in LiveCode. We used to  
> have to do some of that ourselves, only with more limitations on  
> color depth. Gifs for sure won't work, because they will get  
> translated to the engine's internal format, so they are no longer  
> gifs any more. Or, that's my take on it anyway.

Sounds as if cursors are intrinsically more difficult than button  
images. But it would be a great enhancement if LiveCode could fully  
implement animated cursors sometime.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
[hidden email]
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: Beachball cursor Help

FlexibleLearning.com
In reply to this post by Joe Lewis Wilkins
Not sure who began this thread, but I have a 'running cheetah' using
sequential frames if anyone wants to play with it. Not rocket science and
not a cursor, but does show how smooth the engine is!

pls apply off list.

Hugh Senior
FLCo

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Re: Beachball cursor Help

scott@elementarysoftware.com
In reply to this post by Joe Lewis Wilkins
Hello Joe,

This isn't "more colorful" but Shao Sean's great ssMacExternal gives you access to built-in OSX cursors including the animated "counting hand" cursor.

Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       http://elementarysoftware.com/
email     [hidden email]
office     1-800-360-734-4701
mobile  360-920-0715
------------------------------------------------------





On Nov 8, 2010, at 7:46 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Instead of the b/w cursor "busy", I'd love to use the more colorful beachball. Anyone know how that is accomplished?
> TIA
> Joe Wilkins
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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Re: Beachball cursor Help

Joe Lewis Wilkins
Thanks Scott.
Joe Wilkins

---- Scott Morrow <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello Joe,
>
> This isn't "more colorful" but Shao Sean's great ssMacExternal gives you access to built-in OSX cursors including the animated "counting hand" cursor.
>
> Scott Morrow
>
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web       http://elementarysoftware.com/
> email     [hidden email]
> office     1-800-360-734-4701
> mobile  360-920-0715
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 8, 2010, at 7:46 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Instead of the b/w cursor "busy", I'd love to use the more colorful beachball. Anyone know how that is accomplished?
> > TIA
> > Joe Wilkins
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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More on Beachballs (was Beachball cursor Help)

ScottR
In reply to this post by scott@elementarysoftware.com
Recently, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:

> Instead of the b/w cursor "busy", I'd love to use the more colorful beachball.
> Anyone know how that is accomplished?

I thought this would be a fun graphics challenge and created a demo stack
that shows two methods of creating an OS X wait cursor (otherwise known as
"spinning beachball", "pizza of death", "pinwheel of death", etc).  The
first option is a windowShape hack which is quite smooth looking (here) and
could work in any recent version of LiveCode.  The second option uses the
enhanced cursor property only found in LiveCode 4.5 and later.  As explained
in the demo stack, it appears that repeatedly setting a cursor to the ID of
an image results in a cursor that flashes -- seems like something that needs
to be fixed/cached at the engine level.  Option 1 has its drawbacks as well
(see the stack info).

Anyway, the stack might be useful in other areas, and you can get it by
executing the following in your Rev message box (note the following is not a
Web link, watch line wrap):

 go url
"http://www.tactilemedia.com/site_files/downloads/custom_busy_cursor.rev"

(Not tested in Windows because Windows has its own objects-of-death.)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


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Re: More on Beachballs (was Beachball cursor Help)

René Micout
Good !

Le 10 nov. 2010 à 08:58, Scott Rossi a écrit :

> Recently, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
>
>> Instead of the b/w cursor "busy", I'd love to use the more colorful beachball.
>> Anyone know how that is accomplished?
>
> I thought this would be a fun graphics challenge and created a demo stack
> that shows two methods of creating an OS X wait cursor (otherwise known as
> "spinning beachball", "pizza of death", "pinwheel of death", etc).  The
> first option is a windowShape hack which is quite smooth looking (here) and
> could work in any recent version of LiveCode.  The second option uses the
> enhanced cursor property only found in LiveCode 4.5 and later.  As explained
> in the demo stack, it appears that repeatedly setting a cursor to the ID of
> an image results in a cursor that flashes -- seems like something that needs
> to be fixed/cached at the engine level.  Option 1 has its drawbacks as well
> (see the stack info).
>
> Anyway, the stack might be useful in other areas, and you can get it by
> executing the following in your Rev message box (note the following is not a
> Web link, watch line wrap):
>
> go url
> "http://www.tactilemedia.com/site_files/downloads/custom_busy_cursor.rev"
>
> (Not tested in Windows because Windows has its own objects-of-death.)
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX Design
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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