Compiling LiveCode on Sierra

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Compiling LiveCode on Sierra

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
Is it possible to compile the LiveCode IDE on Mac OS 10.12.6?

I tried to follow the instructions on GitHub.  I have the Xcode versions
downloaded.  I had to use sudo to get the setup_xcode_sdks.sh to finish.
First pass was missing Java, so went back and installed that.  Was able to
configure, but build complains about a missing SDK.  Finally got it to a
point where I saw an error message that the earliest SDK that could be
built against is 10.11 so I tried to edit some files and try again.  It got
further, but failed somewhere in the Skia library.

This was all from the develop branch.  Tried 8.1.6-rc-3 tag and that was
worse.  Also tried 9.0.0-dp-8 with nothing better.

(My goal is to get a build to work so I can try to figure out the missing
AppleScript dictionary... I'm part way there, but not sure if another file
needs to be updated.)

Thanks,
Brian
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Re: Compiling LiveCode on Sierra

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 2017-07-29 07:11, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> Is it possible to compile the LiveCode IDE on Mac OS 10.12.6?

Yes - some of us (at LiveCode) use 10.11, some 10.12. We also have a
10.9 machine which is more of a 'hot-desk'. (One of our test machines is
10.10 IIRC, so we have all bases covered). [ Panos has also recently
setup a 10.13 beta machine - not liking some of the crash reports we are
seeing there - one wonders what Apple are doing with that! ].

> I tried to follow the instructions on GitHub.  I have the Xcode
> versions
> downloaded.  I had to use sudo to get the setup_xcode_sdks.sh to
> finish.
> First pass was missing Java, so went back and installed that.  Was able
> to
> configure, but build complains about a missing SDK.  Finally got it to
> a
> point where I saw an error message that the earliest SDK that could be
> built against is 10.11 so I tried to edit some files and try again.  It
> got
> further, but failed somewhere in the Skia library.

We currently support the engine source being compiled against the 10.9
SDK - but I think it *should* compile against 10.11 SDK and 10.12 SDK (I
believe Ali made some tweaks to ensure the latter lately).

Recent versions of Xcode have a setting in an internal plist to (by
default) ignore the 10.9 SDK - this can be solved by:

"edit (with Xcode) the MinimumSDKVersion key value in
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Info.plist"

[ Taken from here : https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/43381 ]

Of course, you'll need to grab the 10.9 SDK from an older version of
Xcode. Apple being Apple don't make these easily available (because, of
course, if you are using the latest Xcode then you can't be using a
project which has to also compile on older Xcodes for testing purposes
as, obviously, everyone in the Apple world always has the latest OS
don't they! Ahem).

Hope this helps - if not it might be worth trying to capture the
attention of one of us on gitter.io (LiveCode channel) so we can help
diagnose the issues in 'real-time'.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

P.S. None of us tend to sit on gitter.io - we can only process so many
simultaneous inputs - however gitter does send email notifications when
someone posts something on there and usually it doesn't take too long
for one of us to notice (weekends, notwithstanding!).

--
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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Compiling LiveCode on Sierra

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
> Recent versions of Xcode have a setting in an internal plist to (by default) ignore the 10.9 SDK - this can be solved by:
>
> "edit (with Xcode) the MinimumSDKVersion key value in /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Info.plist"

We have a script that does Xcode tinkering in tools/setup_xcode_sdks.sh & .py.

PS if you are going to run this against an automagically downloaded from the app store version of Xcode you will need to mess with permissions in the Xcode app bundle before you do it because you won’t be the owner. Also make sure you open Xcode before running the script as the initial setup stuff Xcode does must be done first otherwise it bricks the app.

Cheers

Monte
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gitter

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 07/29/2017 01:44 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> P.S. None of us tend to sit on gitter.io - we can only process so many
> simultaneous inputs - however gitter does send email notifications when
> someone posts something on there and usually it doesn't take too long
> for one of us to notice (weekends, notwithstanding!).
>

While I think the original idea for using gitter (after trying Slack
first) was to set up sort of an IM channel, I have stopped expecting it
to be that and instead I use it for conversations where I need some
deeper or arcane expertise and don't feel like cluttering up the uselist
or the web forums that would be of interest to nobody else. And, once I
stopped expecting it to be an IM channel, I have to say that whatever
the subject, I have always gotten immensely useful information from the
team on gitter.

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]


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Re: gitter

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
Well Gitter itself is posed as more a technical/open source software dev thing I think.

Peter set it up as a more modern form of irc channels where people contributing to the open source project can interact with us and others along those lines.

For that it works really well. There can be a little bit of a delay in terms of getting an initial response sometimes - but when there's an active conversation going on we all try and be as responsive as we can.

We are likely to ask people to 'go elsewhere' if their questions / chat is not about actually contributing to the project - codewise in particular (or helping us do the dev work we do - e.g. Trying to diagnose a thorny problem in specific platform configurations!)

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Jul 2017, at 08:01, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 07/29/2017 01:44 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> P.S. None of us tend to sit on gitter.io - we can only process so many simultaneous inputs - however gitter does send email notifications when someone posts something on there and usually it doesn't take too long for one of us to notice (weekends, notwithstanding!).
>
> While I think the original idea for using gitter (after trying Slack first) was to set up sort of an IM channel, I have stopped expecting it to be that and instead I use it for conversations where I need some deeper or arcane expertise and don't feel like cluttering up the uselist or the web forums that would be of interest to nobody else. And, once I stopped expecting it to be an IM channel, I have to say that whatever the subject, I have always gotten immensely useful information from the team on gitter.
>
> --
> Mark Wieder
> [hidden email]
>
>
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Re: Compiling LiveCode on Sierra

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
Thanks for the pointers.  I was able to get the build working this morning
and confirm what was needed to make the AS Dictionary visible in the build.

Somehow I did get all of my Xcode installs messed up so none would launch
last night.  After I reinstalled 8.3, I ran the script to build the links.
Then I decided that I would rather cache them.  When I deleted the broken
versions of Xcode, I ended up having to relink manually since all of the
SDK links pointed to the old apps instead of the cache.  So, if you want to
cache the SDKs and delete the other copies of Xcode, use the "sh
setup_xcode_sdks.sh -cache" method first.

Thanks again,
Brian

On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 4:24 AM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Recent versions of Xcode have a setting in an internal plist to (by
> default) ignore the 10.9 SDK - this can be solved by:
> >
> > "edit (with Xcode) the MinimumSDKVersion key value in
> /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/
> MacOSX.platform/Info.plist"
>
> We have a script that does Xcode tinkering in tools/setup_xcode_sdks.sh &
> .py.
>
> PS if you are going to run this against an automagically downloaded from
> the app store version of Xcode you will need to mess with permissions in
> the Xcode app bundle before you do it because you won’t be the owner. Also
> make sure you open Xcode before running the script as the initial setup
> stuff Xcode does must be done first otherwise it bricks the app.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
>
>
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Re: gitter

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 07/29/2017 08:38 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> Well Gitter itself is posed as more a technical/open source software dev thing I think.
>
> Peter set it up as a more modern form of irc channels where people contributing to the open source project can interact with us and others along those lines.
>
> For that it works really well. There can be a little bit of a delay in terms of getting an initial response sometimes - but when there's an active conversation going on we all try and be as responsive as we can.
>
> We are likely to ask people to 'go elsewhere' if their questions / chat is not about actually contributing to the project - codewise in particular (or helping us do the dev work we do - e.g. Trying to diagnose a thorny problem in specific platform configurations!)

Yeah. That's what I was trying to say.

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]

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Re: gitter

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 2017-07-29 21:00, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
> Yeah. That's what I was trying to say.

I know - I just thought I'd take the opportunity to be a little more
blunt about it since you gave me the hook to do so - i.e. gitter is not
a route to get direct tech support from our engineers :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: gitter

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode

> On 30 Jul 2017, at 1:01 am, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 07/29/2017 01:44 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> P.S. None of us tend to sit on gitter.io <http://gitter.io/> - we can only process so many simultaneous inputs - however gitter does send email notifications when someone posts something on there and usually it doesn't take too long for one of us to notice (weekends, notwithstanding!).
>
> While I think the original idea for using gitter (after trying Slack first) was to set up sort of an IM channel, I have stopped expecting it to be that and instead I use it for conversations where I need some deeper or arcane expertise and don't feel like cluttering up the uselist or the web forums that would be of interest to nobody else. And, once I stopped expecting it to be an IM channel, I have to say that whatever the subject, I have always gotten immensely useful information from the team on gitter.


As we get more contributors gitter will become more active and you will be able to answer many of the questions for each other. There’s little point expecting a great deal of chatter if there’s only half a dozen people outside the company that have built livecode from source. FWIW I have it on my phone and open on my desktop so I get notifications and respond if I know the answer. Usually it’s “Have you updated submodules?” ;-)

Cheers

Monte
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Re: gitter

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 2017-07-29 22:51, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:
> As we get more contributors gitter will become more active and you
> will be able to answer many of the questions for each other. There’s
> little point expecting a great deal of chatter if there’s only half a
> dozen people outside the company that have built livecode from source.
> FWIW I have it on my phone and open on my desktop so I get
> notifications and respond if I know the answer. Usually it’s “Have you
> updated submodules?” ;-)

Its not just on Gitter that sentence gets uttered a lot - it also occurs
frequently on our internal Slack dev channels!

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Compiling LiveCode on Sierra

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode

> On 30 Jul 2017, at 2:50 am, Brian Milby via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Somehow I did get all of my Xcode installs messed up so none would launch
> last night.  After I reinstalled 8.3, I ran the script to build the links.
> Then I decided that I would rather cache them.  When I deleted the broken
> versions of Xcode, I ended up having to relink manually since all of the
> SDK links pointed to the old apps instead of the cache.  So, if you want to
> cache the SDKs and delete the other copies of Xcode, use the "sh
> setup_xcode_sdks.sh -cache" method first.

Ah, yes, it doesn’t do anything if the sdk is already linked in. There’s a few things I’d like to change about that script. One is it should link in any SDKs that are in the cache or found in the other xcode app bundles rather than just the specific list. At the moment it’s really annoying that for develop-8.1 you need 10.8 but for develop you need 10.9 but the script doesn’t do both on either branch so you end up having to modify the script before you run it. Every time I run it I think I really should fix this but what I’m actually meant to be doing that day always makes me forget about it until the next time ;-)

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Compiling LiveCode on Sierra

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 2017-07-29 23:00, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:

> Ah, yes, it doesn’t do anything if the sdk is already linked in.
> There’s a few things I’d like to change about that script. One is it
> should link in any SDKs that are in the cache or found in the other
> xcode app bundles rather than just the specific list. At the moment
> it’s really annoying that for develop-8.1 you need 10.8 but for
> develop you need 10.9 but the script doesn’t do both on either branch
> so you end up having to modify the script before you run it. Every
> time I run it I think I really should fix this but what I’m actually
> meant to be doing that day always makes me forget about it until the
> next time ;-)

Completely unrelated to the SDK thing, but it is worth mentioning (as
Brian obviously also noticed issues with develop-8.1)...

If you are building from source keep an entirely separate clone for
develop-8.1 and develop - don't switch within them to branches of the
opposite base as you'll end up getting funky errors whilst building
quite a lot.

We changed the way prebuilts work on develop compared to develop-8.1 -
and the two methods don't get along very well (at all, really!)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
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Re: Compiling LiveCode on Sierra

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode

> On 30 Jul 2017, at 7:04 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Completely unrelated to the SDK thing, but it is worth mentioning (as Brian obviously also noticed issues with develop-8.1)...
>
> If you are building from source keep an entirely separate clone for develop-8.1 and develop - don't switch within them to branches of the opposite base as you'll end up getting funky errors whilst building quite a lot.
>
> We changed the way prebuilts work on develop compared to develop-8.1 - and the two methods don't get along very well (at all, really!)

Hmm… I don’t do that and I seem to get along ok. Indeed in the newer versions of Xcode I can witch branches then regenerate the config and Xcode is fine with that.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Compiling LiveCode on Sierra

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 2017-07-29 23:10, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:
> Hmm… I don’t do that and I seem to get along ok. Indeed in the newer
> versions of Xcode I can witch branches then regenerate the config and
> Xcode is fine with that.

Interesting - maybe something subtle has changed in recent months which
means the problem no longer exists - mine is a rather 'brute force'
approach.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

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Re: gitter

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 07/29/2017 01:59 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

>> FWIW I have it on my phone and open on my desktop so I get
>> notifications and respond if I know the answer. Usually it’s “Have you
>> updated submodules?” ;-)
>
> Its not just on Gitter that sentence gets uttered a lot - it also occurs
> frequently on our internal Slack dev channels!

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate submodules?

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Re: gitter

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 2017-07-30 00:10, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
> Have I mentioned lately how much I hate submodules?

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate submodules? ;)

Actually, submodules actually do their job really quite well. They
aren't ideal, but they do enforce modularity (hence the name ;)). We
just need to get round to sorting out some tooling (local shell scripts
/ git hooks) to help make sure they aren't quite so easy to forget about
syncing properly.

That being said we are very gradually working towards eliminating the
third-party submodule.

However, the IDE submodule is set to stay (despite various discussions
about merging it internally - I've always said no, and I'm glad I have)
- indeed, the fact it is a separate submodule helps to put in place a
mechanism which ensures we won't have another 8.1.6-rc-2 type 'balls-up'
whilst doing user-testing :)

[ Something which is also on my list to post on - you're vehemence on
the subject which I must confess I cannot in anyway disagree with made
me come up with a solution to the problem - necessity being the mother
of invention and all! ]

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

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Re: gitter

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode

> On 30 Jul 2017, at 8:49 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> However, the IDE submodule is set to stay (despite various discussions about merging it internally - I've always said no, and I'm glad I have) - indeed, the fact it is a separate submodule helps to put in place a mechanism which ensures we won't have another 8.1.6-rc-2 type 'balls-up' whilst doing user-testing :)

:-( expect continued internal grumblings on that...

Cheers

Monte
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Re: gitter

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 2017-07-30 00:53, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:

>> On 30 Jul 2017, at 8:49 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> However, the IDE submodule is set to stay (despite various discussions
>> about merging it internally - I've always said no, and I'm glad I
>> have) - indeed, the fact it is a separate submodule helps to put in
>> place a mechanism which ensures we won't have another 8.1.6-rc-2 type
>> 'balls-up' whilst doing user-testing :)
>
> :-( expect continued internal grumblings on that...

I'd rather suffer internal grumblings from our team due to having to
have an IDE submodule, than much larger shouts from our users when we
make an error like we did in 8.1.6-rc-2. I have a thick skin, I can
happily ignore such grumblings; less so very long, and very valid
threads on the use-list :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.


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Re: gitter

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode

> On 30 Jul 2017, at 8:59 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'd rather suffer internal grumblings from our team due to having to have an IDE submodule, than much larger shouts from our users when we make an error like we did in 8.1.6-rc-2. I have a thick skin, I can happily ignore such grumblings; less so very long, and very valid threads on the use-list :)

I’m actually not sure I see the connection between the ide submodule and the 8.1.6-rc-2.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: gitter

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
 
 

 I'm just now getting my head around how to set them up.    SourceTree is recursive by default so my builds were fine.    Took a little more playing around to set it up so I could contribute to the IDE and also build with my changes.    (I had it set up as a separate workspace)
 

 
On the sub module I renamed origin to upstream and then added my fork as origin (remotes).    I then changed develop to track upstream.    This mirrors how LiveCode is set up.
 

 
As a test, I imported my sort branch on IDE and rebuilt.    I then got the dictionary with the APIs sorted.    This setup would have made my initial dictionary work so much easier (I was just hacking the code in the latest DP... figuring out how to generate the dictionary was fun...)
 

 
Thanks,
 
Brian
 

 
 

 
 
>  
> On Jul 29, 2017 at 5:10 PM,  <Mark Wieder via use-livecode (mailto:[hidden email])>  wrote:
>  
>  
>  
>  On 07/29/2017 01:59 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:  >>  FWIW I have it on my phone and open on my desktop so I get  >>  notifications and respond if I know the answer. Usually it’s “Have you  >>  updated submodules?” ;-)  >   >  Its not just on Gitter that sentence gets uttered a lot - it also occurs  >  frequently on our internal Slack dev channels! Have I mentioned lately how much I hate submodules? -- Mark Wieder [hidden email] _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list [hidden email] Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode 
>
>  
 
 
 
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