Copies of your app running on the local net

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Copies of your app running on the local net

Paul Claude-2
Two shareware questions:

1) There is a way to determine if there is more than one copy of your app
running on a local net (to check the use of the right shareware license by
your customer)?

2) To create a license code for your customer that include the computer User
Name ($USER - to avoid illegal duplications and distributions), may cause
some contraindication?

Regards,

Paul Claude
ZiggySoft Software
http://www.ziggy-soft.com/
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Re: Copies of your app running on the local net

xtalkprogrammer
Hello Paul,

reply 1) Yes, you can broadcast a UDP request and make all copies on  
the network send (part of) their serial number to compare them with  
the serial number of the newly opened copy of your application.

reply 2) Yes, you can use USER$ on some platforms, but not all. You  
can also use MAC address, label of the hard disk, IP address and  
other characteristics. However, I will never buy software that  
requires me to provide information like this, because I know it will  
be a hassle to install the software on a new machine. Besides, there  
is a hack for each protection measure which makes it difficult to  
decide how much to invest in protection.

Best,

Mark

--

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Consultancy and Software Engineering
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http://www.salery.biz

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Op 29-mei-2006, om 13:59 heeft Paul Claude het volgende geschreven:

> Two shareware questions:
>
> 1) There is a way to determine if there is more than one copy of  
> your app
> running on a local net (to check the use of the right shareware  
> license by
> your customer)?
>
> 2) To create a license code for your customer that include the  
> computer User
> Name ($USER - to avoid illegal duplications and distributions), may  
> cause
> some contraindication?
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul Claude

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Re: Copies of your app running on the local net

Paul Claude-2
Thanks Mark.

> reply 1) Yes, you can broadcast a UDP request and make all copies on
> the network send (part of) their serial number to compare them with
> the serial number of the newly opened copy of your application.

Did you know if exists some example stack around, to perform and answer to
an UDP request?

 
> reply 2) Yes, you can use USER$ on some platforms, but not all. You
> can also use MAC address, label of the hard disk, IP address and
> other characteristics. However, I will never buy software that
> requires me to provide information like this, because I know it will
> be a hassle to install the software on a new machine. Besides, there
> is a hack for each protection measure which makes it difficult to
> decide how much to invest in protection.

I thought that $USER should be valid because: 1) a license is valid, in
effect, only for one user (think about a corporate with hundred of stations
that buy a copy of your app). 2) For a single user with 2 computers, in most
of the cases he will have the same account user name on both, and you can
also add a button in your site to automatically furnish a new code to a
registered user. I don't think to invest very much in protection, but a
simple - universal - license code, will put too easily your app in the
pirates market.


Regards,

Paul Claude
ZiggySoft Software
http://www.ziggy-soft.com/
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Re: Copies of your app running on the local net

Alex Tweedly
Paul Claude wrote:

>Thanks Mark.
>
>  
>
>>reply 1) Yes, you can broadcast a UDP request and make all copies on
>>the network send (part of) their serial number to compare them with
>>the serial number of the newly opened copy of your application.
>>    
>>
>
>Did you know if exists some example stack around, to perform and answer to
>an UDP request?
>  
>
There is a sample UDP client and server in revonline under username
alextweedly - it's just a very simple echo server and echo client, but
should be a start for you.

Beware the problem of Firewalls - the Win XP firewall on each Windows
machine may drop all incoming UDP packets by default (I'm not sure, and
not quite willing to risk setting my own "firewall settings" back to the
default to see what it does :-) , so it's quite possible and/or quite
easy for users to prevent different instances of your app from seeing
each other with this scheme.

>
>  
>
>>reply 2) Yes, you can use USER$ on some platforms, but not all. You
>>can also use MAC address, label of the hard disk, IP address and
>>other characteristics. However, I will never buy software that
>>requires me to provide information like this, because I know it will
>>be a hassle to install the software on a new machine. Besides, there
>>is a hack for each protection measure which makes it difficult to
>>decide how much to invest in protection.
>>    
>>
>
>I thought that $USER should be valid because: 1) a license is valid, in
>effect, only for one user (think about a corporate with hundred of stations
>that buy a copy of your app). 2) For a single user with 2 computers, in most
>of the cases he will have the same account user name on both,
>
I wish I were that organized :-).
I think I have at least 5 different user names on the computers in my house.


--
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net


No virus found in this outgoing message.
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Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.3/350 - Release Date: 28/05/2006

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Re: Copies of your app running on the local net

Paul Claude-2
on 29-05-2006 16:56, Alex Tweedly at [hidden email] wrote:

> There is a sample UDP client and server in revonline under username
> alextweedly - it's just a very simple echo server and echo client, but
> should be a start for you.

The UDP firewalled should be a problem.

> I wish I were that organized :-).
> I think I have at least 5 different user names on the computers in my house.

And you would not buy an app that offer you, for example, 5 license codes
for each computer you own? I can't find other solutions.


Regards,

Paul Claude
ZiggySoft Software
http://www.ziggy-soft.com/
[hidden email]
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Re: Copies of your app running on the local net

xtalkprogrammer
Hello,

Of course, if there is a firewall in place, it might render any check  
for copies of the software on the network useless. There are  
utilities such as LittleSnitch to prevent programmes from contacting  
the network and the internet. That's why I wrote that there is a hack  
for each protection measure  --there really is. The question is how  
much you want to invest in protection and how much others want to do  
to override this protection.

Currently, I have 5 computers that I use each day (just counted), all  
with a different setup and different user names and passwords. Having  
5 different licenses for each application I am buying means that my  
database for license keys would grow very quickly. It would become  
increasingly complex to do maintenance on the systems I'm using.

If you want me to run the software on only one computer, you really  
don't want to give me more than one user name. This is contradictory  
with your suggestion to provide users with an easy way to get a new  
license key when they want to change their user name.

Suppose that you want to accommodate for the possibility to change  
user names. You would have to supply new license codes all the time.  
This doesn't only undermine the protective power of your licensing  
scheme, it also increases the danger of old license codes being lost  
and found by opportunists. Additionally, it demands an increasingly  
large amount of resources from your support department, due to the  
complexity of your license scheme.

Best,

Mark

--

Economy-x-Talk
Consultancy and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Salery is the easiest way to get your own web store on-line: http://
www.salery.biz/salery.html



Op 29-mei-2006, om 18:25 heeft Paul Claude het volgende geschreven:

> on 29-05-2006 16:56, Alex Tweedly at [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> There is a sample UDP client and server in revonline under username
>> alextweedly - it's just a very simple echo server and echo client,  
>> but
>> should be a start for you.
>
> The UDP firewalled should be a problem.
>
>> I wish I were that organized :-).
>> I think I have at least 5 different user names on the computers in  
>> my house.
>
> And you would not buy an app that offer you, for example, 5 license  
> codes
> for each computer you own? I can't find other solutions.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul Claude

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Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
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Re: Copies of your app running on the local net

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Paul Claude-2
Mark Schonewille wrote:
> Of course, if there is a firewall in place, it might render any check  
> for copies of the software on the network useless. There are  
> utilities such as LittleSnitch to prevent programmes from contacting  
> the network and the internet. That's why I wrote that there is a hack  
> for each protection measure  --there really is. The question is how  
> much you want to invest in protection and how much others want to do  
> to override this protection.

That's a great question.

The original post might be rephrased to consider this wording:

What harm would there be in having a normal reg system that doesn't
attempt to shut down multiple local copies, puts that development time
into features and marketing, and reconsiders a greater investment in
anti-piracy technology down the road after there's a sizable installed base?

Most people who pirate software will never become customers anyway.
Taking funding away from customer-centric enhancements and marketing
rarely pays bigger dividends than focusing on the experience of the
legitimate user.

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  Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Copies of your app running on the local net

Paul Claude-2
In reply to this post by xtalkprogrammer
> Suppose that you want to accommodate for the possibility to change
> user names. You would have to supply new license codes all the time.
> This doesn't only undermine the protective power of your licensing
> scheme, it also increases the danger of old license codes being lost
> and found by opportunists. Additionally, it demands an increasingly
> large amount of resources from your support department, due to the
> complexity of your license scheme.

And

> Most people who pirate software will never become customers anyway.
> Taking funding away from customer-centric enhancements and marketing
> rarely pays bigger dividends than focusing on the experience of the
> legitimate user.

You're right. But do you think the best solution is to make a simple
semi-universal license code that will travel over the internet together with
your app?

Maybe. All depends from the percentage of piracy affecting your app. Surely
any protection can be hacked and all apps can be cracked, but the problem is
that one thing is to hack & crack, another thing is simply to copy the
'universal' serial for your app from the serial databases easily available
on the internet.

Probably marketing studies will confirm that is better to 'accept' some
piracy, but letting your customer a very easy license code use. I hope
someone will discover a method (other than $USER or E-net address) to solve
this old question.


Regards,

Paul Claude
ZiggySoft Software
http://www.ziggy-soft.com/
[hidden email]
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