Crowd Funding Enhancements

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Crowd Funding Enhancements

Mike Kerner
I started this thread on the other list, but it's time to bring it over
here.

Now that LC is OSS, I'm thinking of starting a "fund" to get other things
done in LC.  For example,
* code folding
* stack-level setting for giving equal rights to all items, especially the
last one
* macros in the script editor
* multiple columns in the script editor on wide monitors
* A real report editor/designer
* Purchase a skinning tool like tmC or MG and make it part of the product.


Malte has his own list:
1) Feature: reworked networking library (libURL is a bit dated), which
would elevate IPv6 support and goodies like SFTP
2) Fix: Modal dialogue makes app vanish from Task Switcher on Windows
3) Feature: Reworked Multimedia Support (I want sound channels like we have
on mobile for the desktop) , new Player Object
4) Feature: Sub Pixel positioning
5) Feature: Free Transform (rotate/ transform) for all controls



One way this might work:  we could throw out an idea, get bids from the
community and even from Edinburgh to deal with it, and then fund it.


Feedback, please.

--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Andrew Kluthe-2
>
> 1) Feature: reworked networking library (libURL is a bit dated), which
> would elevate IPv6 support and goodies like SFTP


and

* A real report editor/designer


Seem like really feasible projects, and would change the game for just
about every thing I do with livecode. I'd sell a piece of my liver for url
commands that were non-blocking.

Andrew




On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Mike Kerner <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I started this thread on the other list, but it's time to bring it over
> here.
>
> Now that LC is OSS, I'm thinking of starting a "fund" to get other things
> done in LC.  For example,
> * code folding
> * stack-level setting for giving equal rights to all items, especially the
> last one
> * macros in the script editor
> * multiple columns in the script editor on wide monitors
> * A real report editor/designer
> * Purchase a skinning tool like tmC or MG and make it part of the product.
>
>
> Malte has his own list:
> 1) Feature: reworked networking library (libURL is a bit dated), which
> would elevate IPv6 support and goodies like SFTP
> 2) Fix: Modal dialogue makes app vanish from Task Switcher on Windows
> 3) Feature: Reworked Multimedia Support (I want sound channels like we have
> on mobile for the desktop) , new Player Object
> 4) Feature: Sub Pixel positioning
> 5) Feature: Free Transform (rotate/ transform) for all controls
>
>
>
> One way this might work:  we could throw out an idea, get bids from the
> community and even from Edinburgh to deal with it, and then fund it.
>
>
> Feedback, please.
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



--
Regards,

Andrew Kluthe
[hidden email]
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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Tim Selander
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner
I'm originally from Chicago... so in the tradition of that great
city, I'm stuffing the virtual ballot box with votes for this one!!

Tim Selander
Tokyo, Japan

On 2/11/14 12:02 AM, Mike Kerner wrote:
> * A real report editor/designer

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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Vaughn Clement
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner
Hi

Awhile back I proposed a (How to) to offer a LC Codebook for all users to
use online to manage their scripts and several other types of LC content. I
only got a minimal interest.

I am still learning LiveCode like so many other developers. I found the
LiveCode has a rather good Dictionary if you have the time to thumb through
the current 1900+ records. It occurred to me to learn LiveCode a novice or
better developer needs a better interface and to add code tracking in the
distionary. If this could be hosted and allow all users to add their script
knowledge to this dictionary along with custom properties, and custom
functions it would be a real asset. I would also have the app able to use a
very good search feature across any data or fields in the database where
keywords or phrases can be searched. This would call all elements for any
dictionary element/s in a selected group to be reviewed. The current
dictionary is not very useful if you have to search across the entire
dictionary. I am about half way through the dictionary adding the body of
records. When it is done I will offer the dictionary to all users.

Thank you

Vaughn Clement

Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support)
*http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/
<http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/>*
Skype: vaughn.clement
https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement
FaceTime: [hidden email]
LogMeIn also avaialble
Call on "ooVoo" at address:  vaughnclement or 9282549062
Ph. 928-254-9062



On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Mike Kerner <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I started this thread on the other list, but it's time to bring it over
> here.
>
> Now that LC is OSS, I'm thinking of starting a "fund" to get other things
> done in LC.  For example,
> * code folding
> * stack-level setting for giving equal rights to all items, especially the
> last one
> * macros in the script editor
> * multiple columns in the script editor on wide monitors
> * A real report editor/designer
> * Purchase a skinning tool like tmC or MG and make it part of the product.
>
>
> Malte has his own list:
> 1) Feature: reworked networking library (libURL is a bit dated), which
> would elevate IPv6 support and goodies like SFTP
> 2) Fix: Modal dialogue makes app vanish from Task Switcher on Windows
> 3) Feature: Reworked Multimedia Support (I want sound channels like we have
> on mobile for the desktop) , new Player Object
> 4) Feature: Sub Pixel positioning
> 5) Feature: Free Transform (rotate/ transform) for all controls
>
>
>
> One way this might work:  we could throw out an idea, get bids from the
> community and even from Edinburgh to deal with it, and then fund it.
>
>
> Feedback, please.
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Kevin Miller
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner
We¹re definitely interested. The potential issue I have is that this stuff
was (mostly) promised from Kickstarter and indeed either planned and
specced or even being worked on. Mostly it will be delivered this year at
various points. You guys already backed us on Kickstarter and we can &
will be deliver. The only thing we could do would be to speed things up by
further expanding our dev team, which could bring delivery forward for
³pet² features. I guess we could crowd fund that.

So - here is an open question I don¹t know the answer to. Is there
appetite for this in the community? Or would you rather just wait now?
This really is at the ³thinking out loud stage², happy to get a range of
views as we talk about this internally some more.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ [hidden email] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can code




On 10/02/2014 15:02, "Mike Kerner" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I started this thread on the other list, but it's time to bring it over
>here.
>
>Now that LC is OSS, I'm thinking of starting a "fund" to get other things
>done in LC.  For example,
>* code folding
>* stack-level setting for giving equal rights to all items, especially the
>last one
>* macros in the script editor
>* multiple columns in the script editor on wide monitors
>* A real report editor/designer
>* Purchase a skinning tool like tmC or MG and make it part of the product.
>
>
>Malte has his own list:
>1) Feature: reworked networking library (libURL is a bit dated), which
>would elevate IPv6 support and goodies like SFTP
>2) Fix: Modal dialogue makes app vanish from Task Switcher on Windows
>3) Feature: Reworked Multimedia Support (I want sound channels like we
>have
>on mobile for the desktop) , new Player Object
>4) Feature: Sub Pixel positioning
>5) Feature: Free Transform (rotate/ transform) for all controls
>
>
>
>One way this might work:  we could throw out an idea, get bids from the
>community and even from Edinburgh to deal with it, and then fund it.
>
>
>Feedback, please.
>
>--
>On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>On the second day, God created the oceans.
>On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
>And God said, "This is good."
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>[hidden email]
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Andrew Kluthe-2
Since we all work on software too, some of us professionally, we understand
it takes a while sometimes to deliver on a road map.

I also understand that many kickstarter projects might add stretch goals
that are indeed a bit of a stretch to deliver on to try and build/keep
excitement. But progress that we are privy too on these things is less than
visible as we go in to "a whole year later" territory. Any kind of
timelines or updates on any of the stretch goals other than theming/res
independence would be great. While I understand that is probably the
hardest stretch goal you have had to deliver, it is also the least
important to folks who aren't doing mac or mobile dev. I think a lot of us
are happy to wait, but that a few of us seem to be getting concerned lately
that we won't get many of those stretch goals any time in the next year or
two.


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Kevin Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We¹re definitely interested. The potential issue I have is that this stuff
> was (mostly) promised from Kickstarter and indeed either planned and
> specced or even being worked on. Mostly it will be delivered this year at
> various points. You guys already backed us on Kickstarter and we can &
> will be deliver. The only thing we could do would be to speed things up by
> further expanding our dev team, which could bring delivery forward for
> ³pet² features. I guess we could crowd fund that.
>
> So - here is an open question I don¹t know the answer to. Is there
> appetite for this in the community? Or would you rather just wait now?
> This really is at the ³thinking out loud stage², happy to get a range of
> views as we talk about this internally some more.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ [hidden email] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can code
>
>
>
>
> On 10/02/2014 15:02, "Mike Kerner" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >I started this thread on the other list, but it's time to bring it over
> >here.
> >
> >Now that LC is OSS, I'm thinking of starting a "fund" to get other things
> >done in LC.  For example,
> >* code folding
> >* stack-level setting for giving equal rights to all items, especially the
> >last one
> >* macros in the script editor
> >* multiple columns in the script editor on wide monitors
> >* A real report editor/designer
> >* Purchase a skinning tool like tmC or MG and make it part of the product.
> >
> >
> >Malte has his own list:
> >1) Feature: reworked networking library (libURL is a bit dated), which
> >would elevate IPv6 support and goodies like SFTP
> >2) Fix: Modal dialogue makes app vanish from Task Switcher on Windows
> >3) Feature: Reworked Multimedia Support (I want sound channels like we
> >have
> >on mobile for the desktop) , new Player Object
> >4) Feature: Sub Pixel positioning
> >5) Feature: Free Transform (rotate/ transform) for all controls
> >
> >
> >
> >One way this might work:  we could throw out an idea, get bids from the
> >community and even from Edinburgh to deal with it, and then fund it.
> >
> >
> >Feedback, please.
> >
> >--
> >On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> >On the second day, God created the oceans.
> >On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >   and did a little diving.
> >And God said, "This is good."
> >_______________________________________________
> >use-livecode mailing list
> >[hidden email]
> >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >subscription preferences:
> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



--
Regards,

Andrew Kluthe
[hidden email]
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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Kevin Miller
Actually its the core refactor / Unicode that was the really tough bit. A
long time with heads down and only internal dps so far. But in terms of
actual throughput its been massive. The other goals aren’t of the same
scope and as such aren’t as far away as it may seem.

We’re deep into planning for the next phase at the moment. So I’ll write
you guys a more extensive post and/or a newsletter article with an update
on things within the next couple of weeks.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ [hidden email] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can code




On 10/02/2014 15:56, "Andrew Kluthe" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Since we all work on software too, some of us professionally, we
>understand
>it takes a while sometimes to deliver on a road map.
>
>I also understand that many kickstarter projects might add stretch goals
>that are indeed a bit of a stretch to deliver on to try and build/keep
>excitement. But progress that we are privy too on these things is less
>than
>visible as we go in to "a whole year later" territory. Any kind of
>timelines or updates on any of the stretch goals other than theming/res
>independence would be great. While I understand that is probably the
>hardest stretch goal you have had to deliver, it is also the least
>important to folks who aren't doing mac or mobile dev. I think a lot of us
>are happy to wait, but that a few of us seem to be getting concerned
>lately
>that we won't get many of those stretch goals any time in the next year or
>two.
>
>
>On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Kevin Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> We¹re definitely interested. The potential issue I have is that this
>>stuff
>> was (mostly) promised from Kickstarter and indeed either planned and
>> specced or even being worked on. Mostly it will be delivered this year
>>at
>> various points. You guys already backed us on Kickstarter and we can &
>> will be deliver. The only thing we could do would be to speed things up
>>by
>> further expanding our dev team, which could bring delivery forward for
>> ³pet² features. I guess we could crowd fund that.
>>
>> So - here is an open question I don¹t know the answer to. Is there
>> appetite for this in the community? Or would you rather just wait now?
>> This really is at the ³thinking out loud stage², happy to get a range of
>> views as we talk about this internally some more.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> Kevin Miller ~ [hidden email] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can code
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/02/2014 15:02, "Mike Kerner" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> >I started this thread on the other list, but it's time to bring it over
>> >here.
>> >
>> >Now that LC is OSS, I'm thinking of starting a "fund" to get other
>>things
>> >done in LC.  For example,
>> >* code folding
>> >* stack-level setting for giving equal rights to all items, especially
>>the
>> >last one
>> >* macros in the script editor
>> >* multiple columns in the script editor on wide monitors
>> >* A real report editor/designer
>> >* Purchase a skinning tool like tmC or MG and make it part of the
>>product.
>> >
>> >
>> >Malte has his own list:
>> >1) Feature: reworked networking library (libURL is a bit dated), which
>> >would elevate IPv6 support and goodies like SFTP
>> >2) Fix: Modal dialogue makes app vanish from Task Switcher on Windows
>> >3) Feature: Reworked Multimedia Support (I want sound channels like we
>> >have
>> >on mobile for the desktop) , new Player Object
>> >4) Feature: Sub Pixel positioning
>> >5) Feature: Free Transform (rotate/ transform) for all controls
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >One way this might work:  we could throw out an idea, get bids from the
>> >community and even from Edinburgh to deal with it, and then fund it.
>> >
>> >
>> >Feedback, please.
>> >
>> >--
>> >On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> >On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> >On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>> >   and did a little diving.
>> >And God said, "This is good."
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >use-livecode mailing list
>> >[hidden email]
>> >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> >subscription preferences:
>> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>
>--
>Regards,
>
>Andrew Kluthe
>[hidden email]
>_______________________________________________
>use-livecode mailing list
>[hidden email]
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Jan Schenkel
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner
Hi all,

With the right funding, I would consider making Quartam Reports open-source under a dual license.
This would obviate the need for a whole new project that has to go through all the same pains I did.
Admittedly, things have been quiet on the news front, but I have been preparing two major updates.
One brings a series of enhancements to the current version, and the other constitutes a complete rewrite.
The point of the rewrite is to bring the report runtime up-to-date with the latest LiveCode features.
And to tame the beast that is the report editor which has proven harder to maintain than planned.

Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode
www.quartam.com

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/10/14, Tim Selander <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Subject: Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements
 To: "How to use LiveCode" <[hidden email]>
 Date: Monday, February 10, 2014, 7:14 AM
 
 I'm originally from Chicago... so in
 the tradition of that great city, I'm stuffing the virtual
 ballot box with votes for this one!!
 
 Tim Selander
 Tokyo, Japan
 
 On 2/11/14 12:02 AM, Mike Kerner wrote:
 > * A real report editor/designer
 
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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Trevor DeVore
In reply to this post by Andrew Kluthe-2
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Andrew Kluthe <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  Any kind of
> timelines or updates on any of the stretch goals other than theming/res
> independence would be great. While I understand that is probably the
> hardest stretch goal you have had to deliver, it is also the least
> important to folks who aren't doing mac or mobile dev.


I just wanted to point out that resolution independence applies to Windows
as well. Windows has a high DPI mode which you can read about here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd464660(VS.85).aspx

Once the user sets the zoom on their Windows install to 150% it enters high
DPI mode. I've seen this become an issue more and more recently with my
products and have to ask customers to set the zoom to 125%.

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
www.screensteps.com    -    www.clarify-it.com
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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

enderNafi
In reply to this post by Andrew Kluthe-2
On February 10, 2014 at 17:24:35, Kevin Miller ([hidden email]) wrote:

The only thing we could do would be to speed things up by 
further expanding our dev team, which could bring delivery forward for 
³pet² features. I guess we could crowd fund that. 

So - here is an open question I don¹t know the answer to. Is there 
appetite for this in the community? 

Kind regards, 

Kevin 
 

I would happily join to a crowd funding to speed important things up.
But, a bold but, *pet features* and *essentials* should be defined very carefully.
I believe, many of us will support another crowd-funding 
which focuses on *essentials*, things which cannot be done in Livecode alone.

There are really, really important things which we couldn’t do by ourselves or without the help of an external.
Unicode is one of those things, group size limits {int16 thing} and non-blocking url commands are, too.

I would define them as following;
pet feature: a feature for which a workaround can be found.
essential: no workaround, engine must change or an external is needed.

On February 10, 2014 at 17:09:06, Andrew Kluthe ([hidden email]) wrote:

 I'd sell a piece of my liver for url 
commands that were non-blocking. 

Andrew 

Example to an essential feature.
Blocking url commands are deal-breaker and finding an acceptable work-around is almost impossible.
They break many things including user responsiveness.

To quote from Crowley after modernizing the Hell {watching Supernatural, anyone?}:
“Nobody likes to wait!”

On February 10, 2014 at 17:56:39, Andrew Kluthe ([hidden email]) wrote:

 Any kind of timelines or updates on any of the stretch goals other than theming/res 
independence would be great. ... it is also the least 
important to folks who aren't doing mac or mobile dev.  

Example to a pet feature.
These are / should not be that much important even to a seasoned mac/mobile developer, in my humble opinion.
Using a couple of png’s for theming 
and 40 lines of pure Livecode script for resizing were 
all I needed for 20+ finished projects {published business apps} in the last two years.


Rotating an image without wiggling could be important to someone {me}
and having built-in commands for json parsing to someone else.

But these can be done at least to some degree via pure Livecode.


As I said, *pet features* and *essentials* should be defined very carefully.
We’ll support, I will support another crowd-funding which focuses on *essentials*, things which cannot be done in Livecode alone.



Best,

~ Ender
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Mac OS X 10.9.1 • LiveCode 6.5.1 & xCode 5.0.1
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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Mike Kerner
The things I'm thinking of are generally not on the road map, which is how
this thing got started in the first place.  Some of them are on a wishlist
that I gave to Kevin after our Pro meeting.

I also don't want to unnecessarily fork LC just to get what I want (e.g.
all items are created equal).  What I want is to be able to make it worth
everyone's while to add, modify, etc. the project in ways that benefit
everyone...sooner, and limit the resistance to those improvements.

We already did this once with the mergSockets external, and it was good.  I
want to do it some more, and I want to let Kevin et al be able to be as
involved or not as they want.

What I think we need to do is to develop some lists of priorities that
everyone has, and try to a) integrate with the roadmap, b) work on what the
improvements would cost for someone to complete and c) collect the funds
and d) git r dun


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Ender Nafi Elekcioglu <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On February 10, 2014 at 17:24:35, Kevin Miller ([hidden email]) wrote:
>
> The only thing we could do would be to speed things up by
> further expanding our dev team, which could bring delivery forward for
> ³pet² features. I guess we could crowd fund that.
>
> So - here is an open question I don¹t know the answer to. Is there
> appetite for this in the community?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
>
> I would happily join to a crowd funding to speed important things up.
> But, a bold but, *pet features* and *essentials* should be defined very
> carefully.
> I believe, many of us will support another crowd-funding
> which focuses on *essentials*, things which cannot be done in Livecode
> alone.
>
> There are really, really important things which we couldn't do by
> ourselves or without the help of an external.
> Unicode is one of those things, group size limits {int16 thing} and
> non-blocking url commands are, too.
>
> I would define them as following;
> pet feature: a feature for which a workaround can be found.
> essential: no workaround, engine must change or an external is needed.
>
> On February 10, 2014 at 17:09:06, Andrew Kluthe ([hidden email]) wrote:
>
>  I'd sell a piece of my liver for url
> commands that were non-blocking.
>
> Andrew
>
> Example to an essential feature.
> Blocking url commands are deal-breaker and finding an acceptable
> work-around is almost impossible.
> They break many things including user responsiveness.
>
> To quote from Crowley after modernizing the Hell {watching Supernatural,
> anyone?}:
> "Nobody likes to wait!"
>
> On February 10, 2014 at 17:56:39, Andrew Kluthe ([hidden email]) wrote:
>
>  Any kind of timelines or updates on any of the stretch goals other than
> theming/res
> independence would be great. ... it is also the least
> important to folks who aren't doing mac or mobile dev.
>
> Example to a pet feature.
> These are / should not be that much important even to a seasoned
> mac/mobile developer, in my humble opinion.
> Using a couple of png's for theming
> and 40 lines of pure Livecode script for resizing were
> all I needed for 20+ finished projects {published business apps} in the
> last two years.
>
>
> Rotating an image without wiggling could be important to someone {me}
> and having built-in commands for json parsing to someone else.
>
> But these can be done at least to some degree via pure Livecode.
>
>
> As I said, *pet features* and *essentials* should be defined very
> carefully.
> We'll support, I will support another crowd-funding which focuses on
> *essentials*, things which cannot be done in Livecode alone.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> ~ Ender
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Trevor DeVore
In reply to this post by enderNafi
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Ender Nafi Elekcioglu <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On February 10, 2014 at 17:56:39, Andrew Kluthe ([hidden email]) wrote:
>
>  Any kind of timelines or updates on any of the stretch goals other than
> theming/res
> independence would be great. ... it is also the least
> important to folks who aren't doing mac or mobile dev.
>
> Example to a pet feature.
> These are / should not be that much important even to a seasoned
> mac/mobile developer, in my humble opinion.
> Using a couple of png's for theming
> and 40 lines of pure Livecode script for resizing were
> all I needed for 20+ finished projects {published business apps} in the
> last two years.
>

Hi Ender,

It is important to keep in mind that what might be classified as a pet
feature for some is essential for others. I consider myself a fairly
experienced developer and consider resolution independence critical. On the
desktop you cannot make a LiveCode app look correct on retina displays.
Your text will always look fuzzy. If you happen to be playing with the
resolution independence branch of the LiveCode engine on GitHub (the
developer branch includes it now) you will notice a night and day
difference when loading your projects (when loading the project on a retina
laptop).

Windows has similar issues with resolution independence. Changes have to
made to the LiveCode engine itself so that we can have projects look and
behave properly. Based on the number of support emails I get from my
customers I see an upward trend in among my customer base who are using
high-resolution settings on Windows.

For me, lack of high resolution support affects sales of my product (users
with retina displays do not like non-retina compliant apps).

Just another perspective,

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
www.screensteps.com    -    www.clarify-it.com
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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Richmond Mathewson-2
On 10/02/14 23:34, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Ender Nafi Elekcioglu <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On February 10, 2014 at 17:56:39, Andrew Kluthe ([hidden email]) wrote:
>>
>>   Any kind of timelines or updates on any of the stretch goals other than
>> theming/res
>> independence would be great. ... it is also the least
>> important to folks who aren't doing mac or mobile dev.
>>
>> Example to a pet feature.
>> These are / should not be that much important even to a seasoned
>> mac/mobile developer, in my humble opinion.
>> Using a couple of png's for theming
>> and 40 lines of pure Livecode script for resizing were
>> all I needed for 20+ finished projects {published business apps} in the
>> last two years.
>>
> Hi Ender,
>
> It is important to keep in mind that what might be classified as a pet
> feature for some is essential for others. I consider myself a fairly
> experienced developer and consider resolution independence critical. On the
> desktop you cannot make a LiveCode app look correct on retina displays.
> Your text will always look fuzzy. If you happen to be playing with the
> resolution independence branch of the LiveCode engine on GitHub (the
> developer branch includes it now) you will notice a night and day
> difference when loading your projects (when loading the project on a retina
> laptop).
>
> Windows has similar issues with resolution independence. Changes have to
> made to the LiveCode engine itself so that we can have projects look and
> behave properly. Based on the number of support emails I get from my
> customers I see an upward trend in among my customer base who are using
> high-resolution settings on Windows.
>
> For me, lack of high resolution support affects sales of my product (users
> with retina displays do not like non-retina compliant apps).
>
> Just another perspective,
>

Trevor makes an extremely valid point.

A crowd sourced project sourced by mant people all pulling in different
directions is jus
not going to work.

So; before anything like that a consensus of what should be on the list
has to be arrived at.

I have a particular sore-point about the wat Windows Vista, 7 and 8
imposes its own fonts in Unicode text fields.

Richmond.

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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Monte Goulding
Hi Folks

I haven't read this whole thread so please excuse me if I'm duplicating someone else's ideas.

My suggestion would be for RunRev or an interested third party to setup a crowd funding site that allowed people to flesh out specs for changes and then offer funding for them. So the funding would be against a specific project rather than a whole mess of stuff. Now RunRev might not have the resources to do it all or might feel it's short sighted to expand their team unless it's a huge project. So some community contributor or even a consultant could put their hand up to do something once they felt the funding was right (which could be $0 for lots of things). The process would be multi-step:
- requirements analysis and spec
- RunRev endorsement or back to step 1 based on comments
- funding
- someone agrees to implement it with a time frame (perhaps another endorsement by RunRev here???)
- integration
- payment

Some way to re-allocate the funding if things don't work out would be nice. The site could also be used to help people wanting to do volunteer contributions to spec it out on a wiki page.

It occurs to me that a generic site that offered these features might be welcome in the FOSS world???

Plan B: There's nothing stopping someone or a group of someones from engaging a third party to implement and contribute something. It's been done already and I suspect it's the simplest and fastest way to get what you need.

Cheers

Monte

--
M E R Goulding
Software development services
Bespoke application development for vertical markets

mergExt - There's an external for that!

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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Kevin Miller
Kevin Miller wrote:

> Actually its the core refactor / Unicode that was the really tough bit. A
> long time with heads down and only internal dps so far. But in terms of
> actual throughput its been massive. The other goals aren’t of the same
> scope and as such aren’t as far away as it may seem.

That's very encouraging to hear.  QuickTime replacement and Cocoa have
been key concerns for many of us.  Very much looking forward to those.


> We’re deep into planning for the next phase at the moment. So I’ll write
> you guys a more extensive post and/or a newsletter article with an update
> on things within the next couple of weeks.

That would be most welcome.  While RunRev's external communications have
been stellar in comparison to closed-source companies, as an open source
project LiveCode could benefit significantly from regular updates from
the team.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys

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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

lists@duckworks.biz
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner
Vaughn,

I'd be interested in seeing where I could assist.

>> It occurred to me to learn LiveCode a novice or
>> better developer needs a better interface and to add code tracking in the
>> distionary.


I agree that added features for the dictionary would be valuable, I'd also like to see the ability to add multiple code examples to the dictionary to allow comparison and evaluation of code techniques.

> I would also have the app able to use a
> very good search feature across any data or fields in the database where
> keywords or phrases can be searched. This would call all elements for any
> dictionary element/s in a selected group to be reviewed.


That sounds very helpful.

I've seen other online references, for Adobe Flex, that allowed editing and (limited) execution of code samples in an online environment to allow customization and experimentation outside of the project development environment.

Maybe that could be possible in On-Rev.com?

Brian Duck
The DuckWorks
[hidden email]


Begin forwarded message:

> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 08:20:24 -0700
> From: Vaughn Clement <[hidden email]>
> To: How to use LiveCode <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements
> Message-ID:
> <CAP6oXhZxqohorLZfB94KFC52mhsHEC3vY-8kRsTyVEMh6=[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Tim Selander
In reply to this post by Jan Schenkel
Hi Jan,

I have on two occassions (pre-open source and post-open source)
downloaded and tried Quartam Reports. But both times it fell down
for me in trying to handle Japanese/UTF8. Can't recall if it was
in presenting the data or in the editor itself (or, of course,
could have been operator error!) but I couldn't make it do what I
needed...

If the LC of the future makes good on its, 'it just works' goal
for UTF8, and Quartam Reports followed suite, I would become a
happy customer, no doubt.

Tim Selander
Tokyo, Japan


On 2/11/14 1:29 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> With the right funding, I would consider making Quartam Reports open-source under a dual license.
> This would obviate the need for a whole new project that has to go through all the same pains I did.
> Admittedly, things have been quiet on the news front, but I have been preparing two major updates.
> One brings a series of enhancements to the current version, and the other constitutes a complete rewrite.
> The point of the rewrite is to bring the report runtime up-to-date with the latest LiveCode features.
> And to tame the beast that is the report editor which has proven harder to maintain than planned.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode
> www.quartam.com
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 2/10/14, Tim Selander <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>   Subject: Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements
>   To: "How to use LiveCode" <[hidden email]>
>   Date: Monday, February 10, 2014, 7:14 AM
>
>   I'm originally from Chicago... so in
>   the tradition of that great city, I'm stuffing the virtual
>   ballot box with votes for this one!!
>
>   Tim Selander
>   Tokyo, Japan
>
>   On 2/11/14 12:02 AM, Mike Kerner wrote:
>   > * A real report editor/designer
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   use-livecode mailing list
>   [hidden email]
>   Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>   your subscription preferences:
>   http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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>

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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Mike Kerner
monte,
Yes, that's in line with what I was thinking.  I was LESS thinking about
having a generic fund that folks would vote funds out of and more spec'ing
out improvements, and then, etc., as you are suggesting.

As I've been talking with other folks about this, and even a little bit
with Edinburgh, I'm trying to make this something that isn't RR's
responsibility, but rather something that we drive, and they can be a part
of as much as they like (by bidding on things).

Part of the idea was to formalize this process so that it's organized, and
everyone knows where to go when then want to propose having something
happen.  That way, was also will hopefully have more discussion before the
bid spec goes out, and less after we're collecting the funds.


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Tim Selander <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hi Jan,
>
> I have on two occassions (pre-open source and post-open source) downloaded
> and tried Quartam Reports. But both times it fell down for me in trying to
> handle Japanese/UTF8. Can't recall if it was in presenting the data or in
> the editor itself (or, of course, could have been operator error!) but I
> couldn't make it do what I needed...
>
> If the LC of the future makes good on its, 'it just works' goal for UTF8,
> and Quartam Reports followed suite, I would become a happy customer, no
> doubt.
>
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan
>
>
>
> On 2/11/14 1:29 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> With the right funding, I would consider making Quartam Reports
>> open-source under a dual license.
>> This would obviate the need for a whole new project that has to go
>> through all the same pains I did.
>> Admittedly, things have been quiet on the news front, but I have been
>> preparing two major updates.
>> One brings a series of enhancements to the current version, and the other
>> constitutes a complete rewrite.
>> The point of the rewrite is to bring the report runtime up-to-date with
>> the latest LiveCode features.
>> And to tame the beast that is the report editor which has proven harder
>> to maintain than planned.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Jan Schenkel.
>>
>> =====
>> Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode
>> www.quartam.com
>>
>> =====
>> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."
>>  (La Rochefoucauld)
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Mon, 2/10/14, Tim Selander <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>   Subject: Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements
>>   To: "How to use LiveCode" <[hidden email]>
>>   Date: Monday, February 10, 2014, 7:14 AM
>>
>>   I'm originally from Chicago... so in
>>   the tradition of that great city, I'm stuffing the virtual
>>   ballot box with votes for this one!!
>>
>>   Tim Selander
>>   Tokyo, Japan
>>
>>   On 2/11/14 12:02 AM, Mike Kerner wrote:
>>   > * A real report editor/designer
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>>   use-livecode mailing list
>>   [hidden email]
>>   Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>>   your subscription preferences:
>>   http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
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>



--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Trevor DeVore
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Richard Gaskin
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> Kevin Miller wrote:
>
>  Actually its the core refactor / Unicode that was the really tough bit. A
>> long time with heads down and only internal dps so far. But in terms of
>> actual throughput its been massive. The other goals aren't of the same
>> scope and as such aren't as far away as it may seem.
>>
>
> That's very encouraging to hear.  QuickTime replacement and Cocoa have
> been key concerns for many of us.  Very much looking forward to those.


Richard (and others),

I don't know if you have Xcode set up to compile LiveCode or not, but if
you do then you may enjoy following along with the Cocoa project:

https://github.com/runrevmark/livecode/tree/feature-cocoa

I've been building and testing my app as Mark releases updates the cocoa
branch (which is quite regularly). The de-quicktimification has already
begun as well. You can read the progress the is being made in the commit
notes:

https://github.com/runrevmark/livecode/commits/feature-cocoa

It is fun to see what the team is working on and follow along with features
you are interested in.

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
www.screensteps.com    -    www.clarify-it.com
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Re: Crowd Funding Enhancements

Stephen Barncard-4
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 6:30 PM, Trevor DeVore <[hidden email]>wrote:

> It is fun to see what the team is working on and follow along with features
> you are interested in.
>

A-V -  player  progress! Yes!

*--*
*Stephen Barncard - San Francisco Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words*
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