English language learners and LiveCode

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English language learners and LiveCode

Alejandro Tejada
Hi All,

Surely we have discussed this topic before, but the HyperCard
thread brings me memories from 1987, when I started dabbling
with Macs. Back then, I provided translations from manuals for
my group of coworkers who were learning to use the Mac.

Just last week, I was showing to a school friend (who works as
an English Teacher) some stacks created in LiveCode and he
told me that he wished to be able to create similar stacks
for his classes, but he quickly dismissed the idea, arging that
the time involved to learn it would be too much for him.

Then, I proceed to show him the scripts that drive the stacks
and he was really surprised to learn that he could actually read
and understand a computer language. Obviously, he have never
heard before about HyperCard or LiveCode so I left him the stack
"MetaTalk Programmer" to run with Ken Ray's StackRunner.
http://www.canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard24/mtp.mc

How difficult would be for LiveCode to sell a specially simplified
student version of this program in English Teaching Academies
around the world?

I am sure that exposing english learners to this platform would
be really beneficial for them and LiveCode.

Al

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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richmond Mathewson-2
On 06/12/2012 05:24 AM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Surely we have discussed this topic before, but the HyperCard
> thread brings me memories from 1987, when I started dabbling
> with Macs. Back then, I provided translations from manuals for
> my group of coworkers who were learning to use the Mac.
>
> Just last week, I was showing to a school friend (who works as
> an English Teacher) some stacks created in LiveCode and he
> told me that he wished to be able to create similar stacks
> for his classes, but he quickly dismissed the idea, arging that
> the time involved to learn it would be too much for him.
>
> Then, I proceed to show him the scripts that drive the stacks
> and he was really surprised to learn that he could actually read
> and understand a computer language. Obviously, he have never
> heard before about HyperCard or LiveCode so I left him the stack
> "MetaTalk Programmer" to run with Ken Ray's StackRunner.
> http://www.canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard24/mtp.mc
>
> How difficult would be for LiveCode to sell a specially simplified
> student version of this program in English Teaching Academies
> around the world?

It wouldn't be difficult at all. But RunRev have demonstrated their
attitude towards this
quite adequately already.

>
> I am sure that exposing english learners to this platform would
> be really beneficial for them and LiveCode.
>
> Al
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/English-language-learners-and-LiveCode-tp4650501.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Alejandro Tejada
Hi Richmond,

Richmond Mathewson-2 wrote
It wouldn't be difficult at all. But RunRev have demonstrated their
attitude towards this quite adequately already.
Actually, RunRev is working on the Educational side
of their business, but I am not aware about the most
recent developments on this specific area.

So, Richmond, please, explain what is RunRev attitude
about this topic.

Al
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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richmond Mathewson-2
On 06/12/2012 06:03 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> Hi Richmond,
>
>
> Richmond Mathewson-2 wrote
>> It wouldn't be difficult at all. But RunRev have demonstrated their
>> attitude towards this quite adequately already.
>>
> Actually, RunRev is working on the Educational side
> of their business, but I am not aware about the most
> recent developments on this specific area.
>
> So, Richmond, please, explain what is RunRev attitude
> about this topic.

I have repeatedly raised the possibility of either a feature-reduced
version of Livecode
or a re-release of an earlier version of Livecode (say 2.0) at an
extremely cheap rate
if not free.

This has been ignored.

Free RevMedia, as we are surely all well aware, lasted a very short
while........

----------------------

What RunRev should be well aware of by now is that the teachers are not
wealthy, but
educational authorities and private educational institutions often are.

However, the way to influence the groups with the money is,
by-and-large, through teachers.

Therefore, were  either of the possibilities I mentioned above
available, teacher might
try them out and, realising the "good within" bring pressure to bear on
educational powers.

--------------------

Educational pricing for Livecode is really comparatively reasonable:  
http://www.runrev.com/education/pricing.html

I especially like "with additional seats at $25 each"

Preumably teachers are not allowed to buy themselves individual copies
for $25.

what I do not see are attractive enough 'hooks' to get the
educationalists in there in the first place.

-------------------------------------------------

The argument will be that a would-be buyer can download a trial version.

On this note, I downloaded a Linux trial version of LC 5.5.0, but it
would not accept my password.

I contacted Heather and got this reply:

"Thank you for your request.

I have activated a trial for you, this time. However, I need to point
out that
this is the second time I've activated a trial for you, and LiveCode is
not free
software. At some point, you are going to need to give us some money if
you want
to continue using it. I am limited in the number of free trials I can
activate for
you."

and this seems rather odd, as, surely, "Free Trials" are free trials;
and as nothing terribly productive can be done with them such as
spinning off standalone, it doesn't make sense.

Let's suppose that I am wondering about buying 10 LC versions at
educational pricing for
teaching programming - the fact that I have been using RR 4.0 and RR4.5
for donkey's ages
without buying further upgrades shouldn't enter into whether I have
access to a Trial.

-------------------------------------------

Unfortunately I have to report that, having been allowed 30 day Trial of
Livecode 5.5.0,
and downloading it to my machine running Xubuntu 12.04 it would not work
beyond
a "setting defaults" page.

I had to 'kill' the IDE twice using the 'Task Manager'.

>
> Al
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/English-language-learners-and-LiveCode-tp4650501p4650508.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

slylabs13
<snip><snip><SNIP>

I think large companies like MS or Apple can have educational programs that they can write off as charity, but it becomes a much more difficult thing to do with small to mid sized companies. It's tempting to think that exposing students to something like Livecode would enhance learning in general, but is that true? It seems it would only assist a computer programming class, and something as specific or "niche" as Livecode, as much as I love working with it, would not even be my first choice were I to be setting up a basic high school or junior high curriculum.

That being said, I can envision a great deal of benefit deploying educational apps to schools, were someone to create them. To be attractive however, there would have to be a whole range of products, or a single product that allowed a school to purchase different modules. Otherwise it might appear too specific to purchase as a generalized tool for education.

Bob
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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
Hello Richard (sorry, couldn't resist). :)

Richmond wrote:

> I have repeatedly raised the possibility of either a feature-reduced
> version of Livecode or a re-release of an earlier version of Livecode
> (say 2.0) at an extremely cheap rate if not free.
>
> This has been ignored.

"Ignored"?  On the contrary, they not only gave it consideration, but
also actually did it, as you noted:

> Free RevMedia, as we are surely all well aware, lasted a very short
> while........

There may be a reason for that, and I'm willing to be it wasn't Kevin
Miller stumbling into the office drunk one day raging, "Let's get those
teachers!  To hell with them!  Let's take away RevMedia!  That'll fix
'em!  Sure, we'll lose millions along the way, but damn I hate the
education market and I'm willing to throw all that money away just to
stick it to them!"

I suspect their reasons for EOL'ing RevMedia was far less interesting,
based merely on ROI and other boring spreadsheet stuff.

If there is a compelling business case to be made which could
demonstrate their direct experience to be incorrect or incomplete,
submitting a proposal with well-researched supporting data to their
office would be more likely to get a response from them than sending
summary notes to the users here who have no control over LiveCode.

Even better, consider putting that effort into the folks who run Python,
Moodle, or other orgs who already depend on business models based around
free software.

If you're successful at helping those orgs make more money, we may be
able to make a case for RunRev to take LiveCode open source, which would
be far more beneficial to so many others in addition to the EDU segment
than simply a free-as-in-beer proposal.

Thus far, the best business model RunRev has been able to come up with
which lets them keep electricity coming to their computers and food to
their developers has been the one they have now.  It can probably be
improved on (all systems can), but a complete change of direction would
not be prudent without diligent, detailed research.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys


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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richmond Mathewson-2
On 06/12/2012 10:06 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Hello Richard (sorry, couldn't resist). :)
>
> Richmond wrote:
>
>> I have repeatedly raised the possibility of either a feature-reduced
>> version of Livecode or a re-release of an earlier version of Livecode
>> (say 2.0) at an extremely cheap rate if not free.
>>
>> This has been ignored.
>
> "Ignored"?  On the contrary, they not only gave it consideration, but
> also actually did it, as you noted:
>
>> Free RevMedia, as we are surely all well aware, lasted a very short
>> while........
>
> There may be a reason for that, and I'm willing to be it wasn't Kevin
> Miller stumbling into the office drunk one day raging, "Let's get
> those teachers!  To hell with them!  Let's take away RevMedia!  
> That'll fix 'em!  Sure, we'll lose millions along the way, but damn I
> hate the education market and I'm willing to throw all that money away
> just to stick it to them!"

I doubt it as well; although, to be honest, the vision you conjured up
was rather entertaining.

As RevMedia (in its last incarnation) was Free, taking "it away" didn't
lose RunRev any money, but I don't suppose it earned them any either.

However, Kevin Miller is not a fool (if he were he would not be running
a highly successful software company - at the risk of stating the
screamingly obvious).

>
> I suspect their reasons for EOL'ing RevMedia was far less interesting,
> based merely on ROI and other boring spreadsheet stuff.
>
> If there is a compelling business case to be made which could
> demonstrate their direct experience to be incorrect or incomplete,
> submitting a proposal with well-researched supporting data to their
> office would be more likely to get a response from them than sending
> summary notes to the users here who have no control over LiveCode.

Probably, but I am just a teacher, and run a small private language
school, which, were it to be measured up against Kevin Miller's
achievement would look very small indeed. So, the idea of my coming up
with a compelling business plan is just a rather weak joke.

>
> Even better, consider putting that effort into the folks who run
> Python, Moodle, or other orgs who already depend on business models
> based around free software.
>
> If you're successful at helping those orgs make more money, we may be
> able to make a case for RunRev to take LiveCode open source, which
> would be far more beneficial to so many others in addition to the EDU
> segment than simply a free-as-in-beer proposal.

I don't suppose any business is going to feel good about the
free-as-in-beer idea. But what RunRev have not done to my knowledge is
some sort of outreach to try to reel teachers in.

I have demonstrated RR/LC to a fairly large number of programming
teachers and heads-of-staff at school here in Bulgaria. They have all
expressed interest, great interest. But then gone back to their schools
where they teach PASCAL V ('tis free my love) or C++ (endless textbooks
on the subject).

>
> Thus far, the best business model RunRev has been able to come up with
> which lets them keep electricity coming to their computers and food to
> their developers has been the one they have now.  It can probably be
> improved on (all systems can), but a complete change of direction
> would not be prudent without diligent, detailed research.

"a complete change in direction" . . . now I wonder where that idea came
from? certainly not from me.

An idea that has come from me (as well as quite a few other people) is
that RunRev could be doing more to seduce teachers into using their
product. That would not entail "a complete change of direction", but
devoting a small percentage of their manpower to a market area which
might be
under exploited.

>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
>  Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Alejandro Tejada
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
Hi Richmond,

Richmond Mathewson-2 wrote
I have repeatedly raised the possibility of either a feature-reduced
version of Livecode or a re-release of an earlier version of Livecode
(say 2.0) at an  extremely cheap rate if not free.

This has been ignored.

Free RevMedia, as we are surely all well aware, lasted a very short
while........
I am sure that RunRev have their reasons to not repeat this
unique offer. My first though is that "free software" is not
free for the company that give it away...

Surely, supporting free users cost more (a lot more) than
supporting paid users...

Richmond Mathewson-2 wrote
What RunRev should be well aware of by now is that the teachers are not
wealthy, but
educational authorities and private educational institutions often are.

However, the way to influence the groups with the money is,
by-and-large, through teachers.

Therefore, were  either of the possibilities I mentioned above
available, teacher might try them out and, realising the
"good within" bring pressure to bear on educational powers.
Richmond, my personal experience is that Teachers want to learn
but their efforts are conveniently ignored by their supervisors...
unless that they start using software "approved and recommended"
by the Powers that Be.

A really Sad State of Affairs, IMHO...

Richmond Mathewson-2 wrote
Educational pricing for Livecode is really comparatively reasonable:  
http://www.runrev.com/education/pricing.html

I especially like "with additional seats at $25 each"

Preumably teachers are not allowed to buy themselves individual copies
for $25.

what I do not see are attractive enough 'hooks' to get the
educationalists in there in the first place.
Well, Have they tried with English Language Schools in
different countries??? My educated guess is "NO"...
But RunRev have to convince these language schools that
LiveCode would contribute positively to learning the English
language.

Richmond Mathewson-2 wrote
The argument will be that a would-be buyer can download a trial version.

On this note, I downloaded a Linux trial version of LC 5.5.0, but it
would not accept my password.

I contacted Heather and got this reply:

"Thank you for your request.

I have activated a trial for you, this time. However,
I need to point out that this is the second time I've
activated a trial for you, and LiveCode is not free
software. At some point, you are going to need to
give us some money if you want to continue using it.
I am limited in the number of free trials I can activate
for you."

and this seems rather odd, as, surely, "Free Trials"
are free trials; and as nothing terribly productive
can be done with them such as spinning off standalone,
it doesn't make sense.

Let's suppose that I am wondering about buying
10 LC versions at educational pricing for teaching
programming - the fact that I have been using
RR 4.0 and RR4.5 for donkey's ages without buying
further upgrades shouldn't enter into whether I have
access to a Trial.

Unfortunately I have to report that, having been allowed
30 day Trial of Livecode 5.5.0, and downloading it to my
machine running Xubuntu 12.04 it would not work beyond
a "setting defaults" page.

I had to 'kill' the IDE twice using the 'Task Manager'.
Actually, RunRev should specifiy which Linux versions they
support. It's impossible to support every Linux distribution
available... [Where is LiveCode for Puppy Linux?] ;-)

Al
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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richmond Mathewson-2
<snip>
> Actually, RunRev should specifiy which Linux versions they
> support. It's impossible to support every Linux distribution
> available... [Where is LiveCode for Puppy Linux?] ;-)
>
> Al
>
>

If RunRev do not support Ubuntu they are probably excluding a very large
number of
current and potential clients using Linux.

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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Alejandro Tejada
Richmond, in this mail list, you and Nicolas Cueto
are English teachers.

If you want to test the premise that learning
LiveCode could help you students in their
process of learning the english language,
What kind of specific tasks would you
assign to them, to prove or disprove
this hypothesis? :-)

Al

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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
Richmond wrote:
> <snip>
>> Actually, RunRev should specifiy which Linux versions they
>> support. It's impossible to support every Linux distribution
>> available... [Where is LiveCode for Puppy Linux?] ;-)
>>
>> Al
>
> If RunRev do not support Ubuntu they are probably excluding a very large
> number of current and potential clients using Linux.

System requirements for each platform are noted here, under the section
"Platforms Supported":
<http://www.runrev.com/products/livecode/features-table/>

For Linux:

    Create native executables for 32-bit installation, or a
    64-bit Linux distribution that has a 32-bit compatibility
    layer, 2.4.x or later kernel, X11R5 or later, glibc 2.3.2
    or later, gtk/gdk/glib (optional – required for native
    theme support), pango/xft (optional – required for pdf
    printing, anti-aliased text and unicode font support),
    lcms (optional – required for color profile support in
    JPEGs and PNGs), gksu (optional – required for elevate
    process support)

In my experience, aside from the IDE bug with the Dictionary it seems to
run very well on Ubuntu.

In fact, I recently noticed that in v5.5 they now use the native theme
color for list selection hilites (thanks Mr. Waddingham!).

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys

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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Alejandro Tejada
Richmond wrote:
> I don't suppose any business is going to feel good about the
> free-as-in-beer idea. But what RunRev have not done to my knowledge is
> some sort of outreach to try to reel teachers in.
>
> I have demonstrated RR/LC to a fairly large number of programming
> teachers and heads-of-staff at school here in Bulgaria. They have all
> expressed interest, great interest. But then gone back to their schools
> where they teach PASCAL V ('tis free my love) or C++ (endless textbooks
> on the subject).

The RunRev crew rarely posts to this user-to-user list, so the best way
to stay up on what they're doing is either to subscribe to their Twitter
feed or check out their blog - here's a sampling of EDU-related blog
posts from the last few months:

LiveCode Teacher Training Day in Edinburgh
<http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/livecode-teacher-training-day-in-edinburgh->

LiveCode Created App is no. 1 Hottest Educational App on iTunes
<http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/livecode-created-app-is-no-1-hottest-educational-app-on-itunes->

How to teach programming to students today
<http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/how-to-teach-programming-to-students-today>

Students around Edinburgh Ready to Dive into Programming with LiveCode
<http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/students-around-edinburgh-ready-to-dive-into-programming-with-livecode>

Join Us at The Education Show
<http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/join-us-at-the-education-show>

LiveCode in The Times Educational Supplement
<http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/livecode-in-the-times-educational-supplement>


>> Thus far, the best business model RunRev has been able to come up with
>> which lets them keep electricity coming to their computers and food to
>> their developers has been the one they have now.  It can probably be
>> improved on (all systems can), but a complete change of direction
>> would not be prudent without diligent, detailed research.
>
> "a complete change in direction" . . . now I wonder where that idea came
> from? certainly not from me.

My apologies.  I got distracted by the reference to the free RevMedia
edition.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys


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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richmond Mathewson-2
In reply to this post by Alejandro Tejada
On 06/12/2012 11:31 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:
> Richmond, in this mail list, you and Nicolas Cueto
> are English teachers.
>
> If you want to test the premise that learning
> LiveCode could help you students in their
> process of learning the english language,
> What kind of specific tasks would you
> assign to them, to prove or disprove
> this hypothesis? :-)

I don't think learning Livecode could help students in their
process of learning the English language in any way beyond
the way performing anything in the target language assists
vocabulary development.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

What I do think is that Livecode is a bl**dy fantastic programming
environment that
should be available in almost every school that has pretensions to
developing its own
in-house software for content delivery and reinforcement.

I also believe that language schools rely far too much on software that
has been developed by the publishers of the textbooks they use, and that
software
is never tailor-made, never adjusted to local needs, requirements and
sensibilities
and based on the one-size-fits-all idea, which really means that it
never quite fits
anyone.

---------------- Historical Contextualisation for why I believe the
above ---------------

Prior to my setting up my own language school in Bulgaria, 8 years ago,
I worked in a series of Universities in a variety of countries where
part of my duties involved developing exactly the
sort of in-house software I have mentioned above.

Possibly the toughest time was when I was developing software with
Toolbook 6 (NOT
because of Toolbook) in the United Arab Emirates where I had to juggle
the language
requirements present in the textbooks (Longman "North Star") with the
sensibilities of
the Islamic authorities in the University. The obvious reason that I was
developing that software in the first place was that, at that time at
least, there was no EFL software that could deliver the
"goods" and not fall foul of Islamic-Wahabi feelings about matters that
they felt, very strongly, were not suitable for their University students.

Here in Bulgaria I use Longman "Backpack" for my children, and Heinle
"Outcomes" for my teenagers and adults. I don't make software
specifically for "Outcomes".

The "Backpack" software is, in my opinion, puerile and banal, and is
based on a model of children working their way through one of the seven
levels (!!!!!!) a year. But, as that is based on a model class of about
20-30 kids, and I teach kids in groups of 4-6, I generally get through 2
to 2 and a half textbooks per year, as well as a whole range of
supplementary stuff. Therefore I have an ongoing development programme
(called "what I do on Wednesdays") where I develop software that can
serve my specific needs.

If I did not work with Runtime Revolution Livecode I would, probably, be
obliged to run Microsoft Windows on my computers in my school; an
unnecessary expense and headache as far as I am concerned; as I would be
dependent on one of the 'other' RADs that, apart from being inferior
(pace Toolbook) tend to produce standalones for Windows or Macintosh.

Between Livecode, GIMP, Audacity and a digital camera I can produce what
I require very quickly indeed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, and it is a big 'However', I have a 35 year track record of
computer programming; 24 years of that specifically for education.

The problem (if RunRev is interested) is how to get teachers, who are
TEACHERS rather than PROGRAMMERS, to:

1. want to make their own in-house software.

2. set aside the time to learn how to do that.

About a month ago I went to a presentation by Jeremy Harmer at Hotel St.
Petersburg here in
Plovdiv. Harmer made an impassioned and well-crafted speech for using
technology intelligently
to the assembled EFL people of Plovdiv. Those of us who understand
Bulgarian and were flapping our
ears heard this sort of comment; "That's all very well, but our kids
learn English perfectly well without all that, and why should I spend
time outwith the time I teach getting all that stuff ready? My employer
will not pay me more and/or set aside time from teaching to do that."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Imagine, if you will, the following:

A room with 13 computers, each running Livecode; 12 hooked up to
monitors, the other to a data projector.

A series of well thought-out lessons on how to make a set of content
delivery and reinforcement standalones based on pre-prepared templates.

Teachers attending this 'course' being paid to attend.

Teachers being 'given' copies of Livecode so that they can develop in
the comfort of their own homes.

Teachers being rewarded every time they produce a half-decent program
that can be run on the machines in their places of work.

Pie-in-the-sky? Doesn't have to be.  There is, however, a general apathy
and lack of will power.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Alejandro; perhaps not what you wanted; but what I care
passionately about.

Richmond Mathewson. BA, MA, MSc.

>
> Al
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/English-language-learners-and-LiveCode-tp4650501p4650538.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richmond Mathewson-2
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
On 06/12/2012 11:36 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Richmond wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> Actually, RunRev should specifiy which Linux versions they
>>> support. It's impossible to support every Linux distribution
>>> available... [Where is LiveCode for Puppy Linux?] ;-)
>>>
>>> Al
>>
>> If RunRev do not support Ubuntu they are probably excluding a very large
>> number of current and potential clients using Linux.
>
> System requirements for each platform are noted here, under the
> section "Platforms Supported":
> <http://www.runrev.com/products/livecode/features-table/>
>
> For Linux:
>
>    Create native executables for 32-bit installation, or a
>    64-bit Linux distribution that has a 32-bit compatibility
>    layer, 2.4.x or later kernel, X11R5 or later, glibc 2.3.2
>    or later, gtk/gdk/glib (optional – required for native
>    theme support), pango/xft (optional – required for pdf
>    printing, anti-aliased text and unicode font support),
>    lcms (optional – required for color profile support in
>    JPEGs and PNGs), gksu (optional – required for elevate
>    process support)
>
> In my experience, aside from the IDE bug with the Dictionary it seems
> to run very well on Ubuntu.
>
> In fact, I recently noticed that in v5.5 they now use the native theme
> color for list selection hilites (thanks Mr. Waddingham!).
>

I am sure Mr Waddingham is not to blame for the fact that 5.5. would not
run on my machine.

I am sure that Linux is a beast with many heads, and , unlike the
monolithic Mac OS and Windows OS,
each individual installation has its foibles.

My Xubuntu install has XFCE 4.10 sitting on it; what I haven't done is
tried to run 5.5. with a different windows manager.

I would be daft in the extreme if I thought RunRev had the time, money
and so on, to test Livecode for Linux on even 10% of all possible Linux
installs.

One thing that was mentioned once, and died a death, was to issue a
Linux distro based on one of the majors (Ubuntu, Redhat, Debian and so
on) with a working, functioning Livecode pre-installed.

> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
>  Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys
>
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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richmond Mathewson-2
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
On 06/13/2012 12:25 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Richmond wrote:
>> I don't suppose any business is going to feel good about the
>> free-as-in-beer idea. But what RunRev have not done to my knowledge is
>> some sort of outreach to try to reel teachers in.
>>
>> I have demonstrated RR/LC to a fairly large number of programming
>> teachers and heads-of-staff at school here in Bulgaria. They have all
>> expressed interest, great interest. But then gone back to their schools
>> where they teach PASCAL V ('tis free my love) or C++ (endless textbooks
>> on the subject).
>
> The RunRev crew rarely posts to this user-to-user list, so the best
> way to stay up on what they're doing is either to subscribe to their
> Twitter feed or check out their blog - here's a sampling of
> EDU-related blog posts from the last few months:
>
> LiveCode Teacher Training Day in Edinburgh
> <http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/livecode-teacher-training-day-in-edinburgh->
>
>
> LiveCode Created App is no. 1 Hottest Educational App on iTunes
> <http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/livecode-created-app-is-no-1-hottest-educational-app-on-itunes->
>
>
> How to teach programming to students today
> <http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/how-to-teach-programming-to-students-today>
>
>
> Students around Edinburgh Ready to Dive into Programming with LiveCode
> <http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/students-around-edinburgh-ready-to-dive-into-programming-with-livecode>
>
>
> Join Us at The Education Show
> <http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/join-us-at-the-education-show>

Lovely, but:

"The event was attended by 20 experienced and enthusiastic computing
teachers"

Indeed. However, my eariler message (posted about 15 minutes ago)
addresses something different:
Not using Livecode to teach computer programming, but as a development
platform to be used by teachers do develop their own software.

>
> LiveCode in The Times Educational Supplement
> <http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/livecode-in-the-times-educational-supplement>
>
>
>
>>> Thus far, the best business model RunRev has been able to come up with
>>> which lets them keep electricity coming to their computers and food to
>>> their developers has been the one they have now.  It can probably be
>>> improved on (all systems can), but a complete change of direction
>>> would not be prudent without diligent, detailed research.
>>
>> "a complete change in direction" . . . now I wonder where that idea came
>> from? certainly not from me.
>
> My apologies.  I got distracted by the reference to the free RevMedia
> edition.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
>  Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys
>
>
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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richard Gaskin
Richmond wrote:
> Indeed. However, my eariler message (posted about 15 minutes ago)
> addresses something different:
> Not using Livecode to teach computer programming, but as a development
> platform to be used by teachers do develop their own software.

That's a very good idea.

What would be needed to make that happen?  Template stacks as starter
kits?  Additional tools?

Could the community collaborate on creating and sharing such things?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys

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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
Richmond wrote:

> One thing that was mentioned once, and died a death, was to issue a
> Linux distro based on one of the majors (Ubuntu, Redhat, Debian and so
> on) with a working, functioning Livecode pre-installed.

I believe that link is still available, but since I need to test against
a stock distro it's not something I'd be able to use so I don't have
that link handy.  Andre?

I believe ReMasterSys is available in the Ubuntu Software Center, and if
there's sufficient interest anyone can use it to make a LiveCode-centric
distro at any time.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys

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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Alejandro Tejada
Hi Richard,

Richard Gaskin wrote
I believe ReMasterSys is available in the Ubuntu Software Center, and if
there's sufficient interest anyone can use it to make a LiveCode-centric
distro at any time.
Andre Garzia published a distro with RevMedia for Linux included.

Al
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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Richmond Mathewson-2
On 06/13/2012 05:42 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>
>
> Richard Gaskin wrote
>> I believe ReMasterSys is available in the Ubuntu Software Center, and if
>> there's sufficient interest anyone can use it to make a LiveCode-centric
>> distro at any time.
>>
> Andre Garzia published a distro with RevMedia for Linux included.

The only problem is that nobody will be able to obtain a RevMedia start
code.

>
> Al
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/English-language-learners-and-LiveCode-tp4650501p4650567.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: English language learners and LiveCode

Alejandro Tejada
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
Hi Richmond,

Richmond Mathewson-2 wrote
On 06/12/2012 11:31 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:
> Richmond, in this mail list, you and Nicolas Cueto
> are English teachers.
>
> If you want to test the premise that learning
> LiveCode could help you students in their
> process of learning the english language,
> What kind of specific tasks would you
> assign to them, to prove or disprove
> this hypothesis? :-)

I don't think learning Livecode could help students in their
process of learning the English language in any way beyond
the way performing anything in the target language assists
vocabulary development.
Well, the correct answer is:

You could use LiveCode in your English classes
to teach your students to create Interactive
Stories... Just use the simplest commands and structure:
Go Card, Ask, Answer, Show, Hide, Play, Move, If then Else...

Did I left anything out?
I believe that these very few constructs allows your students
to create an Interactive narration as elaborate as this:

http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9882

The advantage is that your students are polishing their
language skills while, at the same time, are using many
other skills (like logical and sequential thinking) to make this Interactive Narration.

Logical thinking:
http://www.audiblox2000.com/logical-thinking.htm
Sequential Thinking:
http://blog.brainpathways.net/2011/03/30/strengthen-your-sequential-thinking-skills-for-life-success/

Think about it as a "Portafolio Project" for your students,
instead of a written assignment of 2 pages...

Could you, at least, give it a try to this idea with
your current English students??? :-)

Al