Feature Exchange any one?

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Feature Exchange any one?

Paul Dupuis
Okay,

I honestly am not sure whether I am serious about this or not, but here
goes:

I was working in LC8.0.1 this evening with a Datagrid and realize that
still, for a component that has been on the LiveCode tool palette for a
LONG TIME now and for MULTIPLE LiveCode versions, there is still not a
single bit of documentation on the Datagrid that comes with LiveCode!
All I wanted to do was look up the specific syntax for hiding a column
via script. Arrgh!

Yes, I have the PDF documentation and I know I can download it from the
LiveCode web site, but that is not the point. The Datagrid has been a
built in LiveCode tools since 4.something or earlier, so that's 4.6.x,
5.0.x, 5.5.x, 6.0.x, 6.1.x, 6.5.x, 6.6.x, 6.7.x (11 of those!), 7.0.x,
7.1.x, 8.0.x, and now 8.1.x! What other software tool has had a major
component for so long with ZERO built in documentation?

What would it take in dollars for a Feature Exchange to have LiveCode
finally add the Datagrid API reference entries from the PDF to the
Dictionary?

It is essentially an editing effort to copy the text of the API
reference chapter of the Datagrid PDF and editing into the format for
the dictionary and check that into GitHub (or however stuff gets in the
dictionary). Can that really cost that much?

And, no, I do not want to do it myself, since I would need to learn
GitHub, checking stuff in and out, the mark up format for the
dictionary, where everything goes, and so on. The reason I want the
Datagrid APIs in the Dictionary is to SAVE me time, not cost me more
time getting them in!

I love LiveCode, but somethings, like this, really irk me :-(

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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Monte Goulding-2
Paul as this would not be editing existing documents but adding a new one for the DataGrid (probably as a single file library with multiple commands etc in it) you really wouldn’t need to learn git or use GitHub if you don’t want to. Just create the document according to the docs format reference on the guide tab of the docs stack and you can pass it around the community for further editing if you like then email it to me or (probably better) add it to a bug report.

I definitely agree it would be great to have the DataGrid documented in the IDE!

One of the things I’ve done as a side project since starting is start writing tests for the documentation. It started with the idea that all examples should be tested to see if they compile (there were some great examples of copy paste errors in there!) but has been extended to try and validate as much of the document as possible against the format specification. It’s looking for things like undocumented parameters or extra parameters that aren’t in the syntax statements, broken syntax statements and whether API docs have summaries. Needless to say there’s a big long list of things to fix (493 to be exact!) and the tests don’t cover everything yet! I may need to call on the community to give me a hand so we can get these things fixed, get the test into the the repo and have them run for every change to the docs.

Cheers

Monte



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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Paul Dupuis
On 6/2/2016 9:02 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
> Paul as this would not be editing existing documents but adding a new one for the DataGrid (probably as a single file library with multiple commands etc in it) you really wouldn’t need to learn git or use GitHub if you don’t want to. Just create the document according to the docs format reference on the guide tab of the docs stack and you can pass it around the community for further editing if you like then email it to me or (probably better) add it to a bug report.
>
> I definitely agree it would be great to have the DataGrid documented in the IDE!
>
> One of the things I’ve done as a side project since starting is start writing tests for the documentation. It started with the idea that all examples should be tested to see if they compile (there were some great examples of copy paste errors in there!) but has been extended to try and validate as much of the document as possible against the format specification. It’s looking for things like undocumented parameters or extra parameters that aren’t in the syntax statements, broken syntax statements and whether API docs have summaries. Needless to say there’s a big long list of things to fix (493 to be exact!) and the tests don’t cover everything yet! I may need to call on the community to give me a hand so we can get these things fixed, get the test into the the repo and have them run for every change to the docs.
>

Okay, I may see if I can carve out the time to pull the API section from
the PDF and edit it to the doc format. At least the doc on the doc
format is now a guide accessible from within LiveCode! ;-)


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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Monte Goulding-2

> On 3 Jun 2016, at 11:09 AM, Paul Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Okay, I may see if I can carve out the time to pull the API section from
> the PDF and edit it to the doc format. At least the doc on the doc
> format is now a guide accessible from within LiveCode! ;-)

You may want to consider splitting the DataGrid docs into a library API doc and a guide for explaining how to do things that wouldn’t be that easy to explain in an API doc like setup row templates etc. Also guides can include images which will help there. API descriptions can probably include…
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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Devin Asay
In reply to this post by Monte Goulding-2
Hey Monte,

I've been thinking about trying to write a validator stack for the API document format. Rather than reinvent the wheel I would love to have a look at yours and maybe help contribute to that effort.

Devin

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 2, 2016, at 6:03 PM, Monte Goulding <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Paul as this would not be editing existing documents but adding a new one for the DataGrid (probably as a single file library with multiple commands etc in it) you really wouldn’t need to learn git or use GitHub if you don’t want to. Just create the document according to the docs format reference on the guide tab of the docs stack and you can pass it around the community for further editing if you like then email it to me or (probably better) add it to a bug report.
>
> I definitely agree it would be great to have the DataGrid documented in the IDE!
>
> One of the things I’ve done as a side project since starting is start writing tests for the documentation. It started with the idea that all examples should be tested to see if they compile (there were some great examples of copy paste errors in there!) but has been extended to try and validate as much of the document as possible against the format specification. It’s looking for things like undocumented parameters or extra parameters that aren’t in the syntax statements, broken syntax statements and whether API docs have summaries. Needless to say there’s a big long list of things to fix (493 to be exact!) and the tests don’t cover everything yet! I may need to call on the community to give me a hand so we can get these things fixed, get the test into the the repo and have them run for every change to the docs.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
>
>
>
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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Paul Dupuis
In reply to this post by Monte Goulding-2
On 6/2/2016 9:24 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
> You may want to consider splitting the DataGrid docs into a library API doc and a guide for explaining how to do things that wouldn’t be that easy to explain in an API doc like setup row templates etc. Also guides can include images which will help there. API descriptions can probably include…

No. While that all would be nice, my original point was the time to get
the whole thing in was prohibitive for me.

I just grabbed the API section and using the minimum required doc
properties of name,type,syntax,summary, and description, along with the
'associated' property (with the value 'datagrid') I was able to convert
about 20% of the API appendix to the doc format in time since my last post.

My object is to convert the API appendix (20 pages), not the other 210
pages of the Datagrid PDF.

If LiveCode would then add it to the Dictionary, at least all the API
syntax would then be there. A person unfamiliar with the datagrid object
most definitely would still need to find and download the datagrid PDF
to understand stuff, but if you are familiar and just need the specific
name or default value reminder of a property, it would then be available.

Done for tonight - its about 10PM here - but I will try to finish up the
rest of the conversion of the API appendix to the doc format by Monday.

Once I am done the basic conversion of teh API appendix to the
dictionary documentation format, if there are any other contributors who
would like to edit or expand any of the entries to make them more than
my minimal conversion, I'll happily pass the text file around.



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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Monte Goulding-2
In reply to this post by Devin Asay
Hi Devin

The start of what I’m doing is here: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/4092

That only includes the example compile check but I have some more format tests to commit and push today. Anyone is welcome to give me a hand getting the tests right and fixing the things they find. The next tests I need to look at implementing is whether all the associations and references are documented and any links in the syntax, summary, description or parameter/return values descriptions are listed in references. I suspect this will be a longish term side project where we gradually merge in tests for things as we have the time to get all the docs to pass that test. I also have a side project writing a script to hard wrap all the docs at 72 chars on the parts of the doc that can handle hard wrapping.

Cheers

Monte

> I've been thinking about trying to write a validator stack for the API document format. Rather than reinvent the wheel I would love to have a look at yours and maybe help contribute to that effort.




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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

J. Landman Gay
On June 2, 2016 9:33:30 PM Monte Goulding <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I also have a side project writing a script to hard wrap all the docs at 72
> chars on
> the parts of the doc that can handle hard wrapping.

I have a handler somewhere for that, written as an example for the early LC
2.x documentation. I may be able to dig it up if you think it would be
useful. I'm not in a position to contribute much else right now but I can
at least do that.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Monte Goulding-2

> On 3 Jun 2016, at 2:29 PM, J. Landman Gay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have a handler somewhere for that, written as an example for the early LC 2.x documentation. I may be able to dig it up if you think it would be useful. I'm not in a position to contribute much else right now but I can at least do that.

The script is basically done it’s now more about timing when would be a good time to commit a huge diff on just about every doc. Thanks anyway!

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Richmond Mathewson-2
In reply to this post by Monte Goulding-2
To be honest this is why I have only tried once to do anything
with the Datagrid, and go so badly bogged-down due to
the lack of documentation I abandoned it and have never looked
back.

Richmond.

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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Paul Dupuis
On 6/3/2016 5:20 AM, RM wrote:
> To be honest this is why I have only tried once to do anything
> with the Datagrid, and go so badly bogged-down due to
> the lack of documentation I abandoned it and have never looked
> back.

Unfortunately, that is probably why a lot of people don't bother with
the Datagrid. Once you are over the basic learning curve - done by going
through Trevor excellent PDF guide - it really is a very powerful
component. However, my memory is not what it used to be. These days, I
find I have to look up the syntax of a repeat loop form if it is a form
I haven't used recently! This makes not having the datagrid APIs in the
dictionary all the more annoying for me.


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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Paul Dupuis
In reply to this post by Monte Goulding-2
On 6/2/2016 9:02 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
> Paul as this would not be editing existing documents but adding a new one for the DataGrid (probably as a single file library with multiple commands etc in it) you really wouldn’t need to learn git or use GitHub if you don’t want to. Just create the document according to the docs format reference on the guide tab of the docs stack and you can pass it around the community for further editing if you like then email it to me or (probably better) add it to a bug report.

Submitted as http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17792

The attached text file has all 20 pages of the Datagrid PDF API appendix
in LC7 documentation format using name, type, syntax, summary, and
description as the minimum tags. Some entries have additional tags as
appropriate.

It isn't perfect. It is pretty much exactly what is in the API appendix
of the PDF just chopped into LC8 doc format.

If anyone would like to download the text file and make further edits or
improvements, they are welcome to.

Hopefully, this can be manipulated/edited into something that can make
it into the LC dictionary finally.

-- Paul



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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Ali Lloyd-2
Thanks for this Paul, I have taken the liberty of tweaking it slightly more
and submitted a pull request:

https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1218/files

Now all we need to do is convert the guide to markdown ;-)

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 8:26 PM Paul Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/2/2016 9:02 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
> > Paul as this would not be editing existing documents but adding a new
> one for the DataGrid (probably as a single file library with multiple
> commands etc in it) you really wouldn’t need to learn git or use GitHub if
> you don’t want to. Just create the document according to the docs format
> reference on the guide tab of the docs stack and you can pass it around the
> community for further editing if you like then email it to me or (probably
> better) add it to a bug report.
>
> Submitted as http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17792
>
> The attached text file has all 20 pages of the Datagrid PDF API appendix
> in LC7 documentation format using name, type, syntax, summary, and
> description as the minimum tags. Some entries have additional tags as
> appropriate.
>
> It isn't perfect. It is pretty much exactly what is in the API appendix
> of the PDF just chopped into LC8 doc format.
>
> If anyone would like to download the text file and make further edits or
> improvements, they are welcome to.
>
> Hopefully, this can be manipulated/edited into something that can make
> it into the LC dictionary finally.
>
> -- Paul
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Monte Goulding-2

> On 6 Jun 2016, at 8:29 AM, Ali Lloyd <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for this Paul, I have taken the liberty of tweaking it slightly more
> and submitted a pull request:
>
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1218/files
>
> Now all we need to do is convert the guide to markdown ;-)

I’ve got to admit I’ve had some projects in the past that were heavy DG users and this was a major annoyance so thank you Paul! It just goes to show that if you are frustrated by something in LiveCode it is no longer a black box where you need to just post a bug report and wait for the team to find time to fix it and the team has your back (it’s very late on a Sunday night for Ali!).

Cheers

Monte


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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Paul Dupuis
On 6/5/2016 7:17 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>> On 6 Jun 2016, at 8:29 AM, Ali Lloyd <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for this Paul, I have taken the liberty of tweaking it slightly more
>> and submitted a pull request:
>>
>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1218/files
>>
>> Now all we need to do is convert the guide to markdown ;-)
> I’ve got to admit I’ve had some projects in the past that were heavy DG users and this was a major annoyance so thank you Paul! It just goes to show that if you are frustrated by something in LiveCode it is no longer a black box where you need to just post a bug report and wait for the team to find time to fix it and the team has your back (it’s very late on a Sunday night for Ali!).
>

Thank you Monte and Ali.

Perhaps if I find some time later this summer, I'll take a stab at the
Guide itself.

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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Ali Lloyd-2
Paul, since I have committed the datagrid docs on your behalf, qould you
mind signing the contributor licence agreement please?

http://livecode.com/store/account/contributor-agreement-signup

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 4:40 AM Paul Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/5/2016 7:17 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
> >> On 6 Jun 2016, at 8:29 AM, Ali Lloyd <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks for this Paul, I have taken the liberty of tweaking it slightly
> more
> >> and submitted a pull request:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1218/files
> >>
> >> Now all we need to do is convert the guide to markdown ;-)
> > I’ve got to admit I’ve had some projects in the past that were heavy DG
> users and this was a major annoyance so thank you Paul! It just goes to
> show that if you are frustrated by something in LiveCode it is no longer a
> black box where you need to just post a bug report and wait for the team to
> find time to fix it and the team has your back (it’s very late on a Sunday
> night for Ali!).
> >
>
> Thank you Monte and Ali.
>
> Perhaps if I find some time later this summer, I'll take a stab at the
> Guide itself.
>
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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Paul Dupuis
On 6/6/2016 3:37 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote:
> Paul, since I have committed the datagrid docs on your behalf, qould you
> mind signing the contributor licence agreement please?
>
> http://livecode.com/store/account/contributor-agreement-signup

Done.


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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Ali Lloyd-2
Thanks very much!

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 1:18 PM Paul Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/6/2016 3:37 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote:
> > Paul, since I have committed the datagrid docs on your behalf, qould you
> > mind signing the contributor licence agreement please?
> >
> > http://livecode.com/store/account/contributor-agreement-signup
>
> Done.
>
>
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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

jameshale
In reply to this post by Paul Dupuis
Paul Dupuis wrote
Perhaps if I find some time later this summer, I'll take a stab at the
Guide itself.
OK the bug bit and I thought, why not.

I have begun to convert the DG Manual to markdown.

It is actually fun (I know, I need to get out more.)

I have converted the first two chapters (66 out of 230 pages) and before I move on have a few questions.

The first is for Ali: Can I submit a zip of the files in a bug request to pass them over too? Modifying something on GitHub is one thing,adding all this is another.

Actually the second one is for Ali too: The images will all be in a folder called images (for insertion into the existing folder) but how many markdown docs should there be. A single doc would be very big. I am thinking along the lines of one doc per chapter. Thoughts?

Q 3. Currently the images used are all pre LC 8. I was thinking of using these first up and once everything done and dusted (and up on Github) go through and update them to LC 8.  Yes?

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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

Ali Lloyd-2
Hi James,

Q1 - yes, that's fine by me, as long as you've signed the CLA
http://livecode.com/store/account/contributor-agreement-signup
(I'm not going to make too much of a habit of committing things on other
people's behalves, but the datagrid docs are important and I really
appreciate the time you and Paul have taken / are taking to help with this)
:-)

Q2 - we don't currently have good 'support' for combining sub-guides into
one, so at the moment I'd prefer just one markdown file if that's ok.

Q3 - I think that's a sensible approach, yes!

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 8:26 AM jameshale <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Paul Dupuis wrote
> > Perhaps if I find some time later this summer, I'll take a stab at the
> > Guide itself.
>
> OK the bug bit and I thought, why not.
>
> I have begun to convert the DG Manual to markdown.
>
> It is actually fun (I know, I need to get out more.)
>
> I have converted the first two chapters (66 out of 230 pages) and before I
> move on have a few questions.
>
> The first is for Ali: Can I submit a zip of the files in a bug request to
> pass them over too? Modifying something on GitHub is one thing,adding all
> this is another.
>
> Actually the second one is for Ali too: The images will all be in a folder
> called images (for insertion into the existing folder) but how many
> markdown
> docs should there be. A single doc would be very big. I am thinking along
> the lines of one doc per chapter. Thoughts?
>
> Q 3. Currently the images used are all pre LC 8. I was thinking of using
> these first up and once everything done and dusted (and up on Github) go
> through and update them to LC 8.  Yes?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Feature-Exchange-any-one-tp4705390p4705473.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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