HTML5 limitations?

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HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some
doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently
possible and what is not?

This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads
content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a
networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many
hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks
held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.

Thoughts?

--
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HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access many things that LC can access in the user's system.

The sandbox protects against malicious pages.

It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.

My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is easily 10 times faster for me.

LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.

"Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.

JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around that with datamaps.

JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.

Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow bug fixes.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently possible and what is not?
>
> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
I forgot to mention that the whole system is based on the splash-stack
approach. The standalone contains all the common code for all the other
stacks, which are loaded on demand. Does HTML5 support this setup?


On 7/25/17 1:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some
> doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently
> possible and what is not?
>
> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads
> content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a
> networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many
> hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks
> held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>
> Thoughts?
>


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
And direct db access is also not possible. For that you´ll need some kind of  a “db gateway” which can be done with lc server or php.

Matthias Rebbe
+49 5741 310000
‌matthiasrebbe.eu <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/>‌

> Am 25.07.2017 um 21:00 schrieb Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access many things that LC can access in the user's system.
>
> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>
> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>
> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is easily 10 times faster for me.
>
> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>
> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>
> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around that with datamaps.
>
> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>
> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow bug fixes.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently possible and what is not?
>>
>> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or
write to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and
splash-stack approach might be a concern, as well as the number of
stacks that are in RAM at any one time. Common images and icons are also
stored in the standalone, which are displayed in the downloaded stacks
as they are opened.

The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack
standalones.

On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:

> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access many things that LC can access in the user's system.
>
> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>
> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>
> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is easily 10 times faster for me.
>
> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>
> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>
> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around that with datamaps.
>
> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>
> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow bug fixes.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently possible and what is not?
>>
>> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In HTML the browser is the engine that runs both HTML and JavaScript. It is possible to have multiple tabs and there are some functions for communicating between tabs and windows, but it isn't pretty. You have to use localstorage and storage events.

This could be made to work similar to an LC engine running multiple stacks, but it is like turning real fish into artificial crab. It is a lot of work to make something that will probably leave you with a bad taste in your mouth.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:30 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or write to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and splash-stack approach might be a concern, as well as the number of stacks that are in RAM at any one time. Common images and icons are also stored in the standalone, which are displayed in the downloaded stacks as they are opened.
>
> The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack standalones.
>
>> On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access many things that LC can access in the user's system.
>> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is easily 10 times faster for me.
>> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around that with datamaps.
>> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow bug fixes.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently possible and what is not?
>>>
>>> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
Go in window of stack works

You can download stacks just fine

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Jul 2017, at 12:46, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> In HTML the browser is the engine that runs both HTML and JavaScript. It is possible to have multiple tabs and there are some functions for communicating between tabs and windows, but it isn't pretty. You have to use localstorage and storage events.
>
> This could be made to work similar to an LC engine running multiple stacks, but it is like turning real fish into artificial crab. It is a lot of work to make something that will probably leave you with a bad taste in your mouth.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:30 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or write to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and splash-stack approach might be a concern, as well as the number of stacks that are in RAM at any one time. Common images and icons are also stored in the standalone, which are displayed in the downloaded stacks as they are opened.
>>
>> The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack standalones.
>>
>>> On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access many things that LC can access in the user's system.
>>> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>>> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>>> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is easily 10 times faster for me.
>>> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>>> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>>> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around that with datamaps.
>>> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>>> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow bug fixes.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently possible and what is not?
>>>>
>>>> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
Kevin,

Can you have a structure similar to having multiple stacks controlled by an LC engine?

I am really curious how you guys set that up? Using localstorage and cookies are the only methods I know of for doing that in regular html5 with multiple tabs/windows.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Go in window of stack works
>
> You can download stacks just fine
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 25 Jul 2017, at 12:46, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> In HTML the browser is the engine that runs both HTML and JavaScript. It is possible to have multiple tabs and there are some functions for communicating between tabs and windows, but it isn't pretty. You have to use localstorage and storage events.
>>
>> This could be made to work similar to an LC engine running multiple stacks, but it is like turning real fish into artificial crab. It is a lot of work to make something that will probably leave you with a bad taste in your mouth.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:30 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or write to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and splash-stack approach might be a concern, as well as the number of stacks that are in RAM at any one time. Common images and icons are also stored in the standalone, which are displayed in the downloaded stacks as they are opened.
>>>
>>> The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack standalones.
>>>
>>>> On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access many things that LC can access in the user's system.
>>>> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>>>> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>>>> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is easily 10 times faster for me.
>>>> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>>>> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>>>> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around that with datamaps.
>>>> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>>>> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow bug fixes.
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently possible and what is not?
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
Yes you can. I'm at a conference just now but hopefully someone knowledgable on our team can jump in with more info.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Jul 2017, at 13:07, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Kevin,
>
> Can you have a structure similar to having multiple stacks controlled by an LC engine?
>
> I am really curious how you guys set that up? Using localstorage and cookies are the only methods I know of for doing that in regular html5 with multiple tabs/windows.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Go in window of stack works
>>
>> You can download stacks just fine
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 25 Jul 2017, at 12:46, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> In HTML the browser is the engine that runs both HTML and JavaScript. It is possible to have multiple tabs and there are some functions for communicating between tabs and windows, but it isn't pretty. You have to use localstorage and storage events.
>>>
>>> This could be made to work similar to an LC engine running multiple stacks, but it is like turning real fish into artificial crab. It is a lot of work to make something that will probably leave you with a bad taste in your mouth.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:30 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or write to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and splash-stack approach might be a concern, as well as the number of stacks that are in RAM at any one time. Common images and icons are also stored in the standalone, which are displayed in the downloaded stacks as they are opened.
>>>>
>>>> The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack standalones.
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access many things that LC can access in the user's system.
>>>>> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>>>>> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>>>>> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is easily 10 times faster for me.
>>>>> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>>>>> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>>>>> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around that with datamaps.
>>>>> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>>>>> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow bug fixes.
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently possible and what is not?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>>>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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>
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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
That concept would be great as a lesson.

~Roger


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes you can. I'm at a conference just now but hopefully someone
> knowledgable on our team can jump in with more info.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 25 Jul 2017, at 13:07, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Kevin,
> >
> > Can you have a structure similar to having multiple stacks controlled by
> an LC engine?
> >
> > I am really curious how you guys set that up? Using localstorage and
> cookies are the only methods I know of for doing that in regular html5 with
> multiple tabs/windows.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Go in window of stack works
> >>
> >> You can download stacks just fine
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
No problem, but thanks for replying.

That is really interesting. I know that setting up such a structure in traditional HTML/JS would be a big pain, because I have looked into something similar before for other reasons.

It must have been quite a bit of work to duplicate that structure in the HTML5 deployment of LC.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 4:21 PM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yes you can. I'm at a conference just now but hopefully someone knowledgable on our team can jump in with more info.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 25 Jul 2017, at 13:07, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> Can you have a structure similar to having multiple stacks controlled by an LC engine?
>>
>> I am really curious how you guys set that up? Using localstorage and cookies are the only methods I know of for doing that in regular html5 with multiple tabs/windows.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Go in window of stack works
>>>
>>> You can download stacks just fine
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On 25 Jul 2017, at 12:46, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In HTML the browser is the engine that runs both HTML and JavaScript. It is possible to have multiple tabs and there are some functions for communicating between tabs and windows, but it isn't pretty. You have to use localstorage and storage events.
>>>>
>>>> This could be made to work similar to an LC engine running multiple stacks, but it is like turning real fish into artificial crab. It is a lot of work to make something that will probably leave you with a bad taste in your mouth.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:30 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or write to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and splash-stack approach might be a concern, as well as the number of stacks that are in RAM at any one time. Common images and icons are also stored in the standalone, which are displayed in the downloaded stacks as they are opened.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack standalones.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access many things that LC can access in the user's system.
>>>>>> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>>>>>> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>>>>>> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is easily 10 times faster for me.
>>>>>> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>>>>>> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>>>>>> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around that with datamaps.
>>>>>> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>>>>>> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow bug fixes.
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently possible and what is not?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>>>>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
The HTML5 standalone builder is still "experimental".
Has been "very experimental" until July 2017.

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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
Can LiveCode HTML5 include or call Javascript? If so you could use local storage InedxedDB for the database. Or WebSQL. If the data isn’t too big.


> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> And direct db access is also not possible. For that you´ll need some kind of  a “db gateway” which can be done with lc server or php.
>
> Matthias Rebbe

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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
> JLG wrote:
> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have
> some doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is
> currently possible and what is not?

Wait until Mark Waddingham's talk about HTML5. Even he will probably
not be able to answer the "what is not"-part of your question.
A lot of things can meanwhile have workarounds using javascript/HTML5
in the browser (easy to learn).

But you have now cross-browser-problems:
The user needs a _newest_ version of Safari, Chrome, Firefox or Opera.
No way to go with IE/Edge.

@What is not working/basic things:
Go to quality center and search for "HTML5".

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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
The size limit on data in local storage is 5 to 10 mb per origin, depending on browser. Not sure if that would be an issue.

Local storage seems to work pretty well in my experiments, if the limitations are not an issue.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:07 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Can LiveCode HTML5 include or call Javascript? If so you could use local storage InedxedDB for the database. Or WebSQL. If the data isn’t too big.
>
>
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> And direct db access is also not possible. For that you´ll need some kind of  a “db gateway” which can be done with lc server or php.
>>
>> Matthias Rebbe
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
The 5MB limit is on mobile, and each time you exceed the previous limit the user can give permission to increase it, at least to 50 MB. Also it’s possible to use multiple databases.

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:16 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The size limit on data in local storage is 5 to 10 mb per origin, depending on browser. Not sure if that would be an issue.
>
> Local storage seems to work pretty well in my experiments, if the limitations are not an issue.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:07 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Can LiveCode HTML5 include or call Javascript? If so you could use local storage InedxedDB for the database. Or WebSQL. If the data isn’t too big.
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> And direct db access is also not possible. For that you´ll need some kind of  a “db gateway” which can be done with lc server or php.
>>>
>>> Matthias Rebbe
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 07/25/2017 01:43 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote:
> The HTML5 standalone builder is still "experimental".
> Has been "very experimental" until July 2017.

It's in process to becoming "beta".

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]

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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
Why does the client want to move the project over to HTML5?
What advantage does he/she think it is going to provide that
the current setup does not?

Based on the complexity of what you already have going I think
it could be a very serious waste of time and energy.

It’s easier to just have a website where your users download
whatever version they need for their computer.  One for macOS,
one for Windows, and one for Unix.  If you need mobile versions
you can create them too.

Trying to convert everything so it all runs in a client’s web-browser,
and too slowly at that considering all of your animations, I just
don’t see it.  You would be better off knowing you have all of
LC’s engine capabilities in your app than in trusting something
that is still listed as experimental - although soon to become beta.

On the other hand if your client has very very deep pockets, and
isn’t in a rush to get it all done by tomorrow, you could make a
lot of money struggling with trying to get it all working.

Good luck with whatever you do!

Rick

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently possible and what is not?
>
> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: HTML5 limitations?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
> Mark wieder wrote:
> It's in process to becoming "beta" ...

... while "the mouse" still always reports "up".
It's a miracle.


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Web vs Native (was Re: HTML5 limitations?)

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
I believe Rick's "Why" here is key to much of what we may be doing over
the next couple years.

We developers currently find ourselves in a very strange place:

On desktop, the requests are "Web! Web! Web!"

On mobile, they're "Apps! Apps! Apps!"

If the web offers advantages that can't be matched with native apps, why
is this perceived as true for the desktop but not for mobile?

If native apps offer advantages that can't be matched with the web, why
is this perceived as true for mobile but not for the desktop?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com


Rick Harrison wrote:

 > Why does the client want to move the project over to HTML5?
 > What advantage does he/she think it is going to provide that
 > the current setup does not?
 >
 > Based on the complexity of what you already have going I think
 > it could be a very serious waste of time and energy.
 >
 > It’s easier to just have a website where your users download
 > whatever version they need for their computer.  One for macOS,
 > one for Windows, and one for Unix.  If you need mobile versions
 > you can create them too.
 >
 > Trying to convert everything so it all runs in a client’s web-browser,
 > and too slowly at that considering all of your animations, I just
 > don’t see it.  You would be better off knowing you have all of
 > LC’s engine capabilities in your app than in trusting something
 > that is still listed as experimental - although soon to become beta.
 >
 > On the other hand if your client has very very deep pockets, and
 > isn’t in a rush to get it all done by tomorrow, you could make a
 > lot of money struggling with trying to get it all working.
 >
 > Good luck with whatever you do!


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