How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

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How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Kurt Kaufman
Chipp Walters:
"...So, while Rev (and Flash and many other dev platforms for iPhone) compile
directly to a binary, they are still in violation of the NEW SDK 4.0
recently released license..."

Thanks for the summary, Chipp.  I was unaware that Apple had changed the rules **after essentially promising something else**-- not too different from a "bait and switch".  I can see why developers might hesitate to create applications for a platform for which the powers-that-be might set up future additional roadblocks.
I guess Apple feels that the general public really doesn't care, and (Apple) is not overly-concerned about alienating multi-platform developers.  On a purely business level, who am I to question their strategy?  But I do think that it is inappropriate of Apple to suddenly shift gears and leave hanging companies who have invested significant time and resources to Apple mobile platform development._______________________________________________
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RE: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Randall Reetz
Yes, this is why I am suggesting that rev output  C source that can be opened within the blessed IDE.  Apple wants control at that level.  I am sure this is so that its compiler can insert com checks and interrupts for ads and tracking of monetary unit exchange.  So if that is what apple wants, give it up.  An xtalk to C source translator presents soooooo many opportunities.  Endless.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chipp Walters <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 7:39 PM
To: How to use Revolution <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Randall,

Hopefully the following can lend some perspective to you on this situation.

Previously, I misspoke. RevMobile compiles Rev code to an iPhone standalone,
which then can be run on the Mac only iPhone simulator. If you sign up for
RevMobile, you must also purchase a $99 Apple developer license and of
course have a Mac to run it on.

The key here is that RevMobile compiles to an iPhone compatible binary, just
like the latest CS5 Flash application does (or did, as Adobe has formally
pulled the plug on supporting the iPhone compiler). And just like Flash CS5,
the newly compiled code successfully bypasses the PREVIOUS license
limitation of no interpreted code-- even though many games evidently use Lua
scripts within them. Not sure what Apple thinks of that:
http://blog.anscamobile.com/2010/04/lua-the-lingua-franca-of-iphone-games/

So, while Rev (and Flash and many other dev platforms for iPhone) compile
directly to a binary, they are still in violation of the NEW SDK 4.0
recently released license which now states:

"Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or
JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written
in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the
Documented APIs"

So, now binary and compiled apps not originally written in Objective-C, C,
C++ will not be accepted by Apple. Platforms which deliver Javascript (web
browser) apps, like PhoneGap are still allowed. A legal interpretation of
the SDK 4.0 as currently written pretty much puts Flash, and Rev, and many
others, out of the business of app development for iPhone/iPad.

So, originally Apple wanted to discourage interpreted languages, like
Revtalk, Actionscript, and others from access to the iPhone. Of course all
the companies understood the rules, and many, like Rev, spent major
resources, and time  trying to comply by creating compatible standalone
binaries. Not an insignificant task. And none of them, or their customers,
or their customers customers had any notion the rules would or even could
change.

As soon as Jobs saw the new Flash CS5 (in the form of Flash CS5-- of which
I'm told there are already a hundred of so apps in the AppStore under the
previous SDK license), he rewrote the license to make sure none of these
applications could now be used. I say Jobs and not Apple, because if you
have followed this closely, you would know Jobs is the one behind it all.
Whether or not you agree with him is up to you.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Randall Lee Reetz
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> Really?  It takes a rev stack and converts all content into OBJECTIVE C
> source.  Inserts it into the apple blessed ipad IDE, and then compiles an
> app in the apple blessed IDE?  How would apple know or care where the app
> spent its early years?  I don't think that is how revmobile works.  Not
> exactly.  Am I wrong?  Does a revmoblile user have to have a mac running the
> apple blessed IDE?
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Chipp Walters-2
There's a huge problem with your argument regarding the Apple situation. First off, most every vendor who creates cross platform binaries for the iPad has confirmed they can incorporate any of the features which Apple's toolset requires-- no problems. This is not a technical issue.

But the much larger issue is one of trust and intent. Clearly, Apple does not want third party toolsets writing binaries for their platform. Jobs has stated such. Their license even states what they want the "original" code to be programmed in. What would make someone like Adobe, or RunRev want to invest even more dollars 'getting around the license' when Apple could just as swiftly revise their license terms once again?

While one could not and should not blame Adobe or RunRev for the first mistake of trying to comply, only to be thwarted by totally unexpected changes in a 4.0 (not 1,2 or 3 vers) SDK license, I'm sure shareholders and BOD's would not look too kindly at a management who continued on such a mission, only to be thwarted again by more new changes in Apple's license.

"First time-- shame on Apple.
Second time-- shame on you!"

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On May 6, 2010, at 11:23 PM, Randall Lee Reetz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, this is why I am suggesting that rev output  C source that can be opened within the blessed IDE.  Apple wants control at that level.  I am sure this is so that its compiler can insert com checks and interrupts for ads and tracking of monetary unit exchange.  So if that is what apple wants, give it up.  An xtalk to C source translator presents soooooo many opportunities.  Endless.
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Randall Reetz
OK, well I get all of this.  Apple is slimy (at least while it is going all ape sh__ on adobe).  But nobody has answered my proposal.  Why not write an xtalk to C source (not binary or byte code) translator?  That way, it is trivial to copy and paste source into apple's blessed IDE (or anyone else's for that matter).  Apple wants its hands into the source, pre-compiler, so give it to them!  I know apple, like any platform, is a moving target(s).  But that is the name of the game in high tech.  Moore's law and such.  Rev is a great tool.  But it isn't a tool that is in charge.  Playing catchup is always risky.  Most if not all of the revMobile IP is transferable to a scheme like the one I have suggested. All of the emulators and IDEs continue to do what they were meant to do.  It is just output that has to be adjusted.  I am guessing that Rev is a C or Java based IP set anyway.  I can see why that lent it self to byte code export.  Oh well.  If Rev was to offer another revenue option, where the rev community was given the choice to pay substantially less for the product and agree to give up a percentage of any revenue generated through the sale of apps, it might incentivize rev to go deeper into this upfront investment.  I would gladly enter into such an agreement.  Seems only fair.  Why shouldn't Rev benefit if I should benefit from Rev products?  Also, that would take the purchasing burden off of kids and students and others who might want to explore but aren't sure they want to pay hundreds of dollars just to see if Rev or programming is their cup of tea.  I don't know if it is myth or fact, but the hype surrounding app sales is pretty astounding.  Gold rush like.  Rev could make a lot of money if they got residuals from rev built apps when they sell.

So, how much harder would it be to output decently formed C source from Rev stacks than it is to output byte code?  Anyone know?

Adobe has an axe to grind.  Rev doesn't, (or does it?).  Rev needs to be nimble and adaptive, play nice… the benevolent parasite.

Randall


On May 6, 2010, at 9:42 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> There's a huge problem with your argument regarding the Apple situation. First off, most every vendor who creates cross platform binaries for the iPad has confirmed they can incorporate any of the features which Apple's toolset requires-- no problems. This is not a technical issue.
>
> But the much larger issue is one of trust and intent. Clearly, Apple does not want third party toolsets writing binaries for their platform. Jobs has stated such. Their license even states what they want the "original" code to be programmed in. What would make someone like Adobe, or RunRev want to invest even more dollars 'getting around the license' when Apple could just as swiftly revise their license terms once again?
>
> While one could not and should not blame Adobe or RunRev for the first mistake of trying to comply, only to be thwarted by totally unexpected changes in a 4.0 (not 1,2 or 3 vers) SDK license, I'm sure shareholders and BOD's would not look too kindly at a management who continued on such a mission, only to be thwarted again by more new changes in Apple's license.
>
> "First time-- shame on Apple.
> Second time-- shame on you!"
>
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
>
> On May 6, 2010, at 11:23 PM, Randall Lee Reetz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Yes, this is why I am suggesting that rev output  C source that can be opened within the blessed IDE.  Apple wants control at that level.  I am sure this is so that its compiler can insert com checks and interrupts for ads and tracking of monetary unit exchange.  So if that is what apple wants, give it up.  An xtalk to C source translator presents soooooo many opportunities.  Endless.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Kurt Kaufman
Randall Reetz wrote:

 > But nobody has answered my proposal.  Why not write an xtalk to C
 > source (not binary or byte code) translator?

Now it's four times:

<http://mail.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2010-May/139296.html>

keyword: provenance


--
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  Fourth World
  Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
  revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv


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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Chipp Walters-2
In reply to this post by Randall Reetz
It's not about axes to grind-- it's just about business. Apple has stated they don't want cross platform dev tools for iPhone. Period. Why would Rev consider trying to go around their wishes without their expressed consent?

Let's take an example. Say you're Adobe's CEO, and you just finished spending millions of dollars building CS5 for Flash. It compiles beautifully into fast iPhone compatible binaries and now you believe you have a great authoring environment for iPhone which will sell millions of copies. But, Apple goes out of it's way to rewrite their licensing terms JUST so THAT doesn't happen.

So, you're sitting in a 'What's next?' meeting and someone tells you:

"You know, we can modify our CS5 compiler to spit out Xcode compatible C and it will only take another year and another million bucks."

What do you do? Apple's made it pretty clear they'll do whatever it takes to keep you off their platform. If you say, "Go ahead," then I would fire you, as would all of your shareholders.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On May 7, 2010, at 12:01 AM, Randall Reetz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Adobe has an axe to grind.  Rev doesn't, (or does it?).  Rev needs to be nimble and adaptive, play nice… the benevolent parasite.
>
> Randall
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RE: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Randall Reetz
In reply to this post by Kurt Kaufman
Yes, I have read it several times.  But apple is grasping here.  What matters is what they are motivated by (what is behind the rule).  Apple is getting bad press and worse.  They want a solution that doesn't cause a riot.  So I ask again, what would it take to export C source?  That way apple can keep its fingers in everything (i think that is what thay are after).  And rev shouldn't care.  Adobe does, but rev shouldn't.  Win win win.  Apple says providence but means access at the compiler stage.  That is my bet.  Anyone at rev asked jobs this yet?

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Gaskin <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 10:08 PM
To: How to use Revolution <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Randall Reetz wrote:

 > But nobody has answered my proposal.  Why not write an xtalk to C
 > source (not binary or byte code) translator?

Now it's four times:

<http://mail.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2010-May/139296.html>

keyword: provenance


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
  revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv


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RE: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Randall Reetz
In reply to this post by Kurt Kaufman
I disagree.  The federal trade commission will disagree.  Apple is up a tree on this one.  They might be able to say the source has to be run through their compiler, but they can't demand that it is written on their typewriters.  So if you show them that you will give them access to pre-compiled source, they will be more then happy.  They aren't trying to sell their IDE.  They just want in at the source code level.  I would too.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chipp Walters <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 10:30 PM
To: How to use Revolution <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

It's not about axes to grind-- it's just about business. Apple has stated they don't want cross platform dev tools for iPhone. Period. Why would Rev consider trying to go around their wishes without their expressed consent?

Let's take an example. Say you're Adobe's CEO, and you just finished spending millions of dollars building CS5 for Flash. It compiles beautifully into fast iPhone compatible binaries and now you believe you have a great authoring environment for iPhone which will sell millions of copies. But, Apple goes out of it's way to rewrite their licensing terms JUST so THAT doesn't happen.

So, you're sitting in a 'What's next?' meeting and someone tells you:

"You know, we can modify our CS5 compiler to spit out Xcode compatible C and it will only take another year and another million bucks."

What do you do? Apple's made it pretty clear they'll do whatever it takes to keep you off their platform. If you say, "Go ahead," then I would fire you, as would all of your shareholders.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On May 7, 2010, at 12:01 AM, Randall Reetz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Adobe has an axe to grind.  Rev doesn't, (or does it?).  Rev needs to be nimble and adaptive, play nice… the benevolent parasite.
>
> Randall
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Chipp Walters-2
Yes. That is how many people feel about this situation. Still, Rev by themselves can do nothing to challenge it. Perhaps Adobe can.

BTW, just so no one thinks I'm an Adobe apologist-- I have worked closely with a number of individuals there and I have seen firsthand serious issues with their business processes. I wouldn't call them illegal, but inept might fit the bill.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On May 7, 2010, at 12:37 AM, Randall Lee Reetz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I disagree.  The federal trade commission will disagree.  Apple is up a tree on this one.  They might be able to say the source has to be run through their compiler, but they can't demand that it is written on their typewriters.  
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

René Micout
Hello Chipp, Richard, Randall, ... Sorry Tom,
I'm sorry to revive the debate, but, for me, everything is not clear...
I make a supposition — unfortunaly it is a supposition :-(
I am an expert with RevTalk and Objective C.
I make a tool that allows me to write a project with RevTalk language. I use Interface Builder to create the interface.
I click a "magic" button and all my work turns into a perfect Objective C code.
I enter my new Objective C code (copy and paste) in Cocoa Xcode on my Macintosh and I start construct the application as if I type all with my little hands...
How Apple can prove that I used the language RevTalk to "prototype" my code ?
Am I in this case in violation of § 3.3.1 ? In absolute (towards contract), yes, but where are the proof ?
If I act in this way, I don't see where is there problem...
René

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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Thierry Douez

Le 7 mai 2010 à 11:15, René Micout a écrit :

> <....>
> Am I in this case in violation of § 3.3.1 ? In absolute (towards contract), yes, but where are the proof ?
> If I act in this way, I don't see where is there problem...
> René


Bonjour René,

Then, in your next reincarnation,
you will be a vulture, eating only rotten food :)

Cordialement,
Thierry

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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

René Micout
Objective C = rotten food ?

Le 7 mai 2010 à 11:34, Thierry D. a écrit :

>
> Le 7 mai 2010 à 11:15, René Micout a écrit :
>
>> <....>
>> Am I in this case in violation of § 3.3.1 ? In absolute (towards contract), yes, but where are the proof ?
>> If I act in this way, I don't see where is there problem...
>> René
>
>
> Bonjour René,
>
> Then, in your next reincarnation,
> you will be a vulture, eating only rotten food :)
>
> Cordialement,
> Thierry
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Jerry Daniels-2
I thought it might have been a French thing, but we're not allowed to talk about cheese.

<GRIN>

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off:
http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch

On May 7, 2010, at 5:52 AM, René Micout <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Objective C = rotten food ?
>
> Le 7 mai 2010 à 11:34, Thierry D. a écrit :
>
>>
>> Le 7 mai 2010 à 11:15, René Micout a écrit :
>>
>>> <....>
>>> Am I in this case in violation of § 3.3.1 ? In absolute (towards contract), yes, but where are the proof ?
>>> If I act in this way, I don't see where is there problem...
>>> René
>>
>>
>> Bonjour René,
>>
>> Then, in your next reincarnation,
>> you will be a vulture, eating only rotten food :)
>>
>> Cordialement,
>> Thierry
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Tim Bleiler
In reply to this post by René Micout
Maybe it's time for a new "Rev-Mobile" list? It is a different product  
after all. Just a thought.


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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

René Micout
In reply to this post by Jerry Daniels-2
Cheese + snail + frog !!!
For french people = :-)
For others = :-(

Le 7 mai 2010 à 13:05, Jerry Daniels a écrit :

> I thought it might have been a French thing, but we're not allowed to talk about cheese.
>
> <GRIN>
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry Daniels
>
> Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off:
> http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch
>
> On May 7, 2010, at 5:52 AM, René Micout <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Objective C = rotten food ?
>>
>> Le 7 mai 2010 à 11:34, Thierry D. a écrit :
>>
>>>
>>> Le 7 mai 2010 à 11:15, René Micout a écrit :
>>>
>>>> <....>
>>>> Am I in this case in violation of § 3.3.1 ? In absolute (towards contract), yes, but where are the proof ?
>>>> If I act in this way, I don't see where is there problem...
>>>> René
>>>
>>>
>>> Bonjour René,
>>>
>>> Then, in your next reincarnation,
>>> you will be a vulture, eating only rotten food :)
>>>
>>> Cordialement,
>>> Thierry
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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> _______________________________________________
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Jonathan Lynch
In reply to this post by René Micout
Hi Rene, are you concerned that there may be an ethical issue with doing that?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: René Micout <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 11:15:34
To: How to use Revolution<[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Hello Chipp, Richard, Randall, ... Sorry Tom,
I'm sorry to revive the debate, but, for me, everything is not clear...
I make a supposition — unfortunaly it is a supposition :-(
I am an expert with RevTalk and Objective C.
I make a tool that allows me to write a project with RevTalk language. I use Interface Builder to create the interface.
I click a "magic" button and all my work turns into a perfect Objective C code.
I enter my new Objective C code (copy and paste) in Cocoa Xcode on my Macintosh and I start construct the application as if I type all with my little hands...
How Apple can prove that I used the language RevTalk to "prototype" my code ?
Am I in this case in violation of § 3.3.1 ? In absolute (towards contract), yes, but where are the proof ?
If I act in this way, I don't see where is there problem...
René

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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Robert Mann
In reply to this post by Thierry Douez
Man.. let us read...

3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner
   prescribed by Apple
 and must not use or call any private APIs.
   Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++,
   or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and
   only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and
   directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications
   that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation
   or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).

Let's start reading ... A few definitions :

API's - is an interface implemented by a software program which enables it to interact with other software (same language or foreign languages).

PLease note that the 3.3.1 DOES NOT state documented API by Apple!! and refers to PRiVATE APIs.
Litterally speaking PUBLIC APIs like google maps etc.. do not fall in!!

There are some feras expressed that an expanded interpretation of this clause would embrace all forms of organized libraires writen in C or C++ that could be incorporated by a programmer to better structure his program. I cannot see how this interpretation can hold. As well as I cannot understand the fuss about "ORIGINALLY WRITTEN in c.." because this is unenforceable legally...

I guess that "Originally written" in Steve's mind means in that context "hand" written, not just output by a machine...

But, from a legal point of view nobody can restrain the way you think, work, produce your code. Steve cannot forbid the use of any form or helping tool, 3rd party documentation, copying/pasting of functions from here or there, or software robot, intermediate layer, provided it delivers some x code : nobody can restrain this freedom.

The copyright law protects only the materialization of ideas, never the ideas themselves, nor the processes, not the methods. And programming has been clearly associated to writing. So nobody (even Stevie..) can (LEGALLY - ei enforceable in court) dictate how the hell you produce your damned x Code libraries.

So I  support the argument that the only way that "originally written in c" can be interpreted is "at some stage materially visible and editable in C or C++ in the XCode environment" whatever steps have occured before, as these prior steps are immaterial.

The limit would be if for instance revMobile produced X Code in two parts : a) the actual stack application code and b) alongside a set of home made runrev librarires writen in C or C++ that would be neccessary, part A) calling part b). My conviction is that even in that situation, a legal action by Apple would not succeed on the ground of 3.3.1.

But I guess anyhow Apple has a full discretionnary power to allow apps or not in their APP store, SO FAR, so yes they could easily tell "your app uses a set of runrev libraries we de not like.. It is likely you use runrev as a production tool and we do not like it.. be bye!" Or tell you nothing, just NO!

But I cannot see "them" as plain evil, just like that. They seem to have plans for the future and have reasons to enforce the c++ or c and Xcode compiler. But they do not seem to have any interest to go further than that.

SO personnaly, as a member of the mobile rev alpha program I would not throw my coin at Kevin if he announced such a direction to be taken, with or without steve's consent, if there is a possibility technically.

In practice though, I'm getting ready to byte at xcode straight from the box, this summer, because, I do not want to wait infinitely until we have the perfect tool and I would also welcome Kevin if he told us that he just stopped the revMObile iphone program with a compensation for early buyers. It might well be the most reasonnable course to take.

I would welcome a correlative annoucemet to focus BACK on  ON-REV to produce an actual alternative to PHP, with .irev stacks that would allow selling libraries and developping this market, on which runrev could really shine... and where runrev would stand clear of Steve's fears.. 


I appreciate and supported the mobile rev venture, but I really ask Kevin and runrev as a whole in the interest of all parties to cover for the secure grounds before going to battle in a new adverse territory.

-- I am deceived with the ON-REV stand still situation making it impossible (unless using old CGI) to install on-rev on 3rd parties servers and market private libraires. And it seems much more within reach to me than re-engeeneering revMobile, that can still be used for vertical professionnal apps not sold in the AppStore.

-- I really suffered with the AUDIO ( I mean the lack of audio libraires, in runrev..) I found solutions but quicktime lib + lame lib but could not complete project due to lack of basic mix libraries (fade in out, simple mixin transition). So anyway.. solution seems to go Xcode direct..

Hugh!










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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

René Micout
In reply to this post by Jonathan Lynch
No.
When I responds to some posts, my English is too poor, and I use a translation application.
My views may seem clumsy, but are not dishonest...
In the computer's world using English is necessary but not obligatory. I think in French even when I speak English (I'd like to think in English, but...), I claim the right to think RevTalk while writing in Objective C. Where is the ethical problem ?
René

Le 7 mai 2010 à 14:29, [hidden email] a écrit :

> Hi Rene, are you concerned that there may be an ethical issue with doing that?
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: René Micout <[hidden email]>
> Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 11:15:34
> To: How to use Revolution<[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?
>
> Hello Chipp, Richard, Randall, ... Sorry Tom,
> I'm sorry to revive the debate, but, for me, everything is not clear...
> I make a supposition — unfortunaly it is a supposition :-(
> I am an expert with RevTalk and Objective C.
> I make a tool that allows me to write a project with RevTalk language. I use Interface Builder to create the interface.
> I click a "magic" button and all my work turns into a perfect Objective C code.
> I enter my new Objective C code (copy and paste) in Cocoa Xcode on my Macintosh and I start construct the application as if I type all with my little hands...
> How Apple can prove that I used the language RevTalk to "prototype" my code ?
> Am I in this case in violation of § 3.3.1 ? In absolute (towards contract), yes, but where are the proof ?
> If I act in this way, I don't see where is there problem...
> René
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Kurt Kaufman
René Micout wrote:

 > Hello Chipp, Richard, Randall, ... Sorry Tom,
 > I'm sorry to revive the debate, but, for me, everything is
 > not clear...

I hope this becomes less of a debate and simply a healthy, sober
discussion of business decisions.  If we maintain a professional tone I
think many aspects of this thread can be very valuable.

 > I make a supposition — unfortunaly it is a supposition :-(
 > I am an expert with RevTalk and Objective C.
 > I make a tool that allows me to write a project with RevTalk
 > language. I use Interface Builder to create the interface.
 > I click a "magic" button and all my work turns into a perfect
 > Objective C code.
 > I enter my new Objective C code (copy and paste) in Cocoa Xcode on
 > my Macintosh and I start construct the application as if I type
 > all with my little hands...
 > How Apple can prove that I used the language RevTalk to "prototype"
 > my code ?
 > Am I in this case in violation of § 3.3.1 ? In absolute (towards
 > contract), yes, but where are the proof ?
 > If I act in this way, I don't see where is there problem...

The fact that you acknowledge in advance that it may be a violation --
and have done so in writing in a public forum <g> -- should be enough to
question the practice.

I'm no lawyer, but the world's discussion of this issue seems to make it
clear that Apple is firm on the code provenance issue, that you cannot
use another language to generate C/C++/Objective-C, but instead the app
must be "originally written in" such a language.

The terms of the license make such a violation punishable under criminal
law.

If the Gizmodo case is any indicator, you could expect a SWAT team to
arrest you and confiscate your computers.

Even if you ultimately prevail in such a case, or if some class-action
or FTC suit later forces Apple to reconsider their unusual stance on
this, in the meantime you would be in jail awaiting trial and that would
destroy your business.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
  revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

René Micout
In reply to this post by Robert Mann
Thank you Hugh !
I agree and particulary the end of your post about Audio
René

Le 7 mai 2010 à 14:21, Robert Mann a écrit :

> -- I really suffered with the AUDIO ( I mean the lack of audio libraires, in
> runrev..) I found solutions but quicktime lib + lame lib

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