HyperCard: the Myst story

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HyperCard: the Myst story

Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
Hi Colin,

I found this Mac User magazine!
https://vintageapple.org/macuser/pdf/MacUser_9311_November_1993.pdf

Al

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 9:21 PM
Colin Holgate wrote:
> In 1993 Mac User magazine had a review
> of the top 50 CD-ROMs, and of those there
> was an overall winner.
> The A Hard Day’s Night CD-ROM I made
> in HyperCard was the overall winner.
> I was lucky that it was before Myst was
> released. It would have easily won!
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Re: HyperCard: the Myst story

Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
Thanks for that. Voyager did well in the list, 15 out of the 50. 10 of which were in HyperCard. #1 I programmed on my own, and I also did some work on #4 and #15.


> On Feb 10, 2020, at 3:53 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Colin,
>
> I found this Mac User magazine!
> https://vintageapple.org/macuser/pdf/MacUser_9311_November_1993.pdf
>
> Al
>
> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 9:21 PM
> Colin Holgate wrote:
>> In 1993 Mac User magazine had a review
>> of the top 50 CD-ROMs, and of those there
>> was an overall winner.
>> The A Hard Day’s Night CD-ROM I made
>> in HyperCard was the overall winner.
>> I was lucky that it was before Myst was
>> released. It would have easily won!
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: HyperCard: the Myst story

Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
Colin was a monster programmer at Voyager!

I myself worked on the Voyager music titles #9, 21, 37, 38, 39, producing the first two, the Stravinsky and Mozart programs, and I’m still working with Robert Winter, the author, after 30 years. All HyperCard with custom Xcommands for music score animation and CD-ROM/video disc player control.

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive


> On Feb 11, 2020, at 12:07 AM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for that. Voyager did well in the list, 15 out of the 50. 10 of which were in HyperCard. #1 I programmed on my own, and I also did some work on #4 and #15.
>
>
>> On Feb 10, 2020, at 3:53 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Colin,
>>
>> I found this Mac User magazine!
>> https://vintageapple.org/macuser/pdf/MacUser_9311_November_1993.pdf
>>
>> Al
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 9:21 PM
>> Colin Holgate wrote:
>>> In 1993 Mac User magazine had a review
>>> of the top 50 CD-ROMs, and of those there
>>> was an overall winner.
>>> The A Hard Day’s Night CD-ROM I made
>>> in HyperCard was the overall winner.
>>> I was lucky that it was before Myst was
>>> released. It would have easily won!
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: HyperCard: the Myst story

Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
I liked those music CD-ROMs! There was an excellent one of a late Beethoven string quartet. I forget which one. Since this year is Beethoven’s 250th birthday, perhaps it’s time to think of another way of presenting this material! I’ve already been to several performances of these wonderful pieces in London, and it’s an endless task to appreciate them, certainly for a non-musician like me. Bring on the digital analysis!

Personally I have a pet project to re-purpose a very elaborate CD-ROM about Robert Frost, published by Henry Holt in 1997, but I can never get anyone to talk to me about the copyright issues.

A bit OT, I know…

Graham

> On 11 Feb 2020, at 08:35, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Colin was a monster programmer at Voyager!
>
> I myself worked on the Voyager music titles #9, 21, 37, 38, 39, producing the first two, the Stravinsky and Mozart programs, and I’m still working with Robert Winter, the author, after 30 years. All HyperCard with custom Xcommands for music score animation and CD-ROM/video disc player control.
>
> Peter Bogdanoff
> ArtsInteractive
>
>
>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 12:07 AM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for that. Voyager did well in the list, 15 out of the 50. 10 of which were in HyperCard. #1 I programmed on my own, and I also did some work on #4 and #15.
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 10, 2020, at 3:53 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Colin,
>>>
>>> I found this Mac User magazine!
>>> https://vintageapple.org/macuser/pdf/MacUser_9311_November_1993.pdf
>>>
>>> Al
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 9:21 PM
>>> Colin Holgate wrote:
>>>> In 1993 Mac User magazine had a review
>>>> of the top 50 CD-ROMs, and of those there
>>>> was an overall winner.
>>>> The A Hard Day’s Night CD-ROM I made
>>>> in HyperCard was the overall winner.
>>>> I was lucky that it was before Myst was
>>>> released. It would have easily won!
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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>
>
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: HyperCard: the Myst story

Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
Bah, I can only claim #17. Raw C (not even C++) on the CD-ROM, but vast
amounts of HyperCard used in the production process.

Mind you, if Cosmic Osmo only got #29, I consider their rankings very suspect!


On 11/02/2020 05:07, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote:

> Thanks for that. Voyager did well in the list, 15 out of the 50. 10 of which were in HyperCard. #1 I programmed on my own, and I also did some work on #4 and #15.
>
>
>> On Feb 10, 2020, at 3:53 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Colin,
>>
>> I found this Mac User magazine!
>> https://vintageapple.org/macuser/pdf/MacUser_9311_November_1993.pdf
>>
>> Al
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 9:21 PM
>> Colin Holgate wrote:
>>> In 1993 Mac User magazine had a review
>>> of the top 50 CD-ROMs, and of those there
>>> was an overall winner.
>>> The A Hard Day’s Night CD-ROM I made
>>> in HyperCard was the overall winner.
>>> I was lucky that it was before Myst was
>>> released. It would have easily won!
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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>

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Re: HyperCard: the Myst story

Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
https://publicdomain4u.com/as-of-january-1-2019-these-robert-frost-poems-are-public-domain/


> On Feb 11, 2020, at 2:56 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Personally I have a pet project to re-purpose a very elaborate CD-ROM about Robert Frost, published by Henry Holt in 1997, but I can never get anyone to talk to me about the copyright issues.

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Re: HyperCard: the Myst story

Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
I code among giants!

Bob S


> On Feb 10, 2020, at 21:07 , Colin Holgate via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for that. Voyager did well in the list, 15 out of the 50. 10 of which were in HyperCard. #1 I programmed on my own, and I also did some work on #4 and #15.
>
>
>> On Feb 10, 2020, at 3:53 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Colin,
>>
>> I found this Mac User magazine!
>> https://vintageapple.org/macuser/pdf/MacUser_9311_November_1993.pdf
>>
>> Al
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 9:21 PM
>> Colin Holgate wrote:
>>> In 1993 Mac User magazine had a review
>>> of the top 50 CD-ROMs, and of those there
>>> was an overall winner.
>>> The A Hard Day’s Night CD-ROM I made
>>> in HyperCard was the overall winner.
>>> I was lucky that it was before Myst was
>>> released. It would have easily won!
>> _________________________________

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Re: HyperCard: the Myst story

Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
That’s excellent information - I would still have to tackle any missed out (obviously I haven’t checked yet) and presumably all the recordings of the poet speaking which are much more recent than the composition dates (though I don’t understand US copyright laws). And there’s Richard Wilbur’s essay… (sigh). Would what one might call the “production design” of a CD-ROM (the look, the graphics, the order of presentation etc) be subject to copyright? I suppose it’s intellectual property. Sorry, this is getting OT.

Graham

> On 11 Feb 2020, at 15:49, dev via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> https://publicdomain4u.com/as-of-january-1-2019-these-robert-frost-poems-are-public-domain/
>
>
>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 2:56 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Personally I have a pet project to re-purpose a very elaborate CD-ROM about Robert Frost, published by Henry Holt in 1997, but I can never get anyone to talk to me about the copyright issues.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: HyperCard: the Myst story

Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
Hi Graham,

It might be easier to track down the copyright holder of the CD-ROM and offer to re-publish on a different platform. Copyrights on the design of the program/disc itself will definitely apply for a long time.

We are re-configuring some of our earlier work HC into LiveCode as desktop applications. Some things can be, of course, done in as HTML 5. Copyright is always an issue, especially for licensed, recorded music.

There is obviously a quite large body of great-quality CD-ROM content discs from the 1990-2000s that have slipped into the dustbin of history—no longer compatible with digital content delivery methods today—with no easy path to their revival. Authors and companies have moved on, licensing has expired, original files used to create the stuff are on old media (Zip drives) or have disappeared. But with effort, it can be done, and in LiveCode, of course!

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive

> On Feb 11, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That’s excellent information - I would still have to tackle any missed out (obviously I haven’t checked yet) and presumably all the recordings of the poet speaking which are much more recent than the composition dates (though I don’t understand US copyright laws). And there’s Richard Wilbur’s essay… (sigh). Would what one might call the “production design” of a CD-ROM (the look, the graphics, the order of presentation etc) be subject to copyright? I suppose it’s intellectual property. Sorry, this is getting OT.
>
> Graham
>
>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 15:49, dev via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> https://publicdomain4u.com/as-of-january-1-2019-these-robert-frost-poems-are-public-domain/
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 2:56 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Personally I have a pet project to re-purpose a very elaborate CD-ROM about Robert Frost, published by Henry Holt in 1997, but I can never get anyone to talk to me about the copyright issues.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: HyperCard: the Myst story

Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
Thanks Peter

It’s encouraging to know about the re-configuring. When I first thought of my project, some years ago, I could not get any sensible response out of the original publisher, and eventually gave up, but now I am thinking of reviving the idea. I think sadly the copyright holder of the CD-ROM is the actual book publisher, which means I will have to re-do the weary round of trying to get them to respond. I have an ancient Mac running OS 7 I believe, just to enable me to look at the CD-ROM in its original form. Better do something before it stops working!

I am interested in the fact that you are re-configuring your CD-ROM material as desktop applications. That was my original idea for my project, but now I wonder if it should be an app, or indeed whether HTML5 would actually work (using LiveCode of course, as you say!). My target audience are probably ordinary folks interested in poetry, and schools. Are your users happy with the desktop solution?

Hope this isn’t getting too OT.

Graham

> On 11 Feb 2020, at 19:26, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Graham,
>
> It might be easier to track down the copyright holder of the CD-ROM and offer to re-publish on a different platform. Copyrights on the design of the program/disc itself will definitely apply for a long time.
>
> We are re-configuring some of our earlier work HC into LiveCode as desktop applications. Some things can be, of course, done in as HTML 5. Copyright is always an issue, especially for licensed, recorded music.
>
> There is obviously a quite large body of great-quality CD-ROM content discs from the 1990-2000s that have slipped into the dustbin of history—no longer compatible with digital content delivery methods today—with no easy path to their revival. Authors and companies have moved on, licensing has expired, original files used to create the stuff are on old media (Zip drives) or have disappeared. But with effort, it can be done, and in LiveCode, of course!
>
> Peter Bogdanoff
> ArtsInteractive
>
>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> That’s excellent information - I would still have to tackle any missed out (obviously I haven’t checked yet) and presumably all the recordings of the poet speaking which are much more recent than the composition dates (though I don’t understand US copyright laws). And there’s Richard Wilbur’s essay… (sigh). Would what one might call the “production design” of a CD-ROM (the look, the graphics, the order of presentation etc) be subject to copyright? I suppose it’s intellectual property. Sorry, this is getting OT.
>>
>> Graham
>>
>>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 15:49, dev via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://publicdomain4u.com/as-of-january-1-2019-these-robert-frost-poems-are-public-domain/
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 2:56 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Personally I have a pet project to re-purpose a very elaborate CD-ROM about Robert Frost, published by Henry Holt in 1997, but I can never get anyone to talk to me about the copyright issues.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: HyperCard: the Myst story

Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
Hi Graham,

I congratulate you on your ambition to do this! It seems that the days are long gone when people will pay attention to a content product because it is just that. All the attention (i.e. funding) has moved on to scalable platforms rather than individual works of artifice!

Yes, when we started showing people our desktop Music In the Air program they would ask immediately about web delivery, and I looked into LC’s HTML 5. But it definitely turns out that desktop is more doable, cheaper, and technically capable for our program, so we’re sticking with that for the present.

Most of our customers have their own personal machine, but school labs can be problematic when the lab admin doesn’t want to install an application. I don’t have enough experience with this to say definitely, but very likely schools with younger students will rely on lab computers with possible restrictions. Also, an app with its required installation probably will have less discoverability by potential users compared to a web application which can be tried out and used immediately.

I’ll address your questions about sync in your other posting.

Peter
ArtsInteractive

> On Feb 12, 2020, at 5:11 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks Peter
>
> It’s encouraging to know about the re-configuring. When I first thought of my project, some years ago, I could not get any sensible response out of the original publisher, and eventually gave up, but now I am thinking of reviving the idea. I think sadly the copyright holder of the CD-ROM is the actual book publisher, which means I will have to re-do the weary round of trying to get them to respond. I have an ancient Mac running OS 7 I believe, just to enable me to look at the CD-ROM in its original form. Better do something before it stops working!
>
> I am interested in the fact that you are re-configuring your CD-ROM material as desktop applications. That was my original idea for my project, but now I wonder if it should be an app, or indeed whether HTML5 would actually work (using LiveCode of course, as you say!). My target audience are probably ordinary folks interested in poetry, and schools. Are your users happy with the desktop solution?
>
> Hope this isn’t getting too OT.
>
> Graham
>
>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 19:26, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Graham,
>>
>> It might be easier to track down the copyright holder of the CD-ROM and offer to re-publish on a different platform. Copyrights on the design of the program/disc itself will definitely apply for a long time.
>>
>> We are re-configuring some of our earlier work HC into LiveCode as desktop applications. Some things can be, of course, done in as HTML 5. Copyright is always an issue, especially for licensed, recorded music.
>>
>> There is obviously a quite large body of great-quality CD-ROM content discs from the 1990-2000s that have slipped into the dustbin of history—no longer compatible with digital content delivery methods today—with no easy path to their revival. Authors and companies have moved on, licensing has expired, original files used to create the stuff are on old media (Zip drives) or have disappeared. But with effort, it can be done, and in LiveCode, of course!
>>
>> Peter Bogdanoff
>> ArtsInteractive
>>
>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> That’s excellent information - I would still have to tackle any missed out (obviously I haven’t checked yet) and presumably all the recordings of the poet speaking which are much more recent than the composition dates (though I don’t understand US copyright laws). And there’s Richard Wilbur’s essay… (sigh). Would what one might call the “production design” of a CD-ROM (the look, the graphics, the order of presentation etc) be subject to copyright? I suppose it’s intellectual property. Sorry, this is getting OT.
>>>
>>> Graham
>>>
>>>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 15:49, dev via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://publicdomain4u.com/as-of-january-1-2019-these-robert-frost-poems-are-public-domain/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 2:56 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I have a pet project to re-purpose a very elaborate CD-ROM about Robert Frost, published by Henry Holt in 1997, but I can never get anyone to talk to me about the copyright issues.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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>>
>>
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