Improving the LiveCode release notes

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Improving the LiveCode release notes

Peter TB Brett
Hi all,

I'm currently working on the LiveCode 8 release notes (in preparation
for RC 1!)

I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can
make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.

* What's good about the current LiveCode release notes?
* How can we make them better?
* What additional information would be helpful to include?
* What can be removed or abbreviated to make them more concise?

For example, here are the LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-11 release notes:

http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-8_0_0_dp_11.pdf

Please reply and let me know your thoughts -- or feel free to e-mail me
off-list.

                                          Peter


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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

mwieder
On 12/14/2015 09:46 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can
> make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.

How about alphabetizing the Dictionary Additions and Dictionary Changes
lists?

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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

mwieder
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
On 12/14/2015 09:46 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently working on the LiveCode 8 release notes (in preparation
> for RC 1!)
>
> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can
> make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.

The release notes mention Raspberry Pi, but it's been a while (April)
since there was a release for the pi, and there's never been an 8.0
release for that platform.

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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

mwieder
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
On 12/14/2015 09:46 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can
> make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.

The release notes say that jdk-6 is required for Android support. Are
you sure that's not jdk-7? It might be a good idea to have the Android
section have a link to

<http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/316181-how-do-i-become-an-android-developer-on-linux>
<http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/27385-how-do-i-become-an-android-developer-on-a-pc>
<http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/27389-how-do-i-become-an-android-developer-on-a-mac>

which are better step-by-step instructions. I can't vouch for the pc or
mac versions, but I just updated the linux instructions the other day.

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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

David Bovill-3
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
For me Release notes should be available in a searchable format in the IDE.
I get pretty tired of digging through pdf's to find core information?

On Monday, 14 December 2015, Peter TB Brett <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently working on the LiveCode 8 release notes (in preparation for
> RC 1!)
>
> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can make
> the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.
>
> * What's good about the current LiveCode release notes?
> * How can we make them better?
> * What additional information would be helpful to include?
> * What can be removed or abbreviated to make them more concise?
>
> For example, here are the LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-11 release notes:
>
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-8_0_0_dp_11.pdf
>
> Please reply and let me know your thoughts -- or feel free to e-mail me
> off-list.
>
>                                          Peter
>
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett <[hidden email]>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>
> LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode
>
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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

mwieder
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
On 12/14/2015 09:46 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can
> make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.

I suggest dropping the section titled "IDE stacfiles named with version.
(8.0.0-dp-1)". It seems like an idea that was proposed and never
followed through on.

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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

Ali Lloyd-2
Nope, that's in there. The example should probably be changed though, as
revTools is now a script-only stack in a subdirectory and therefore doesn't
need the .8

On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 6:42 PM Mark Wieder <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 12/14/2015 09:46 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>
> > I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can
> > make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.
>
> I suggest dropping the section titled "IDE stacfiles named with version.
> (8.0.0-dp-1)". It seems like an idea that was proposed and never
> followed through on.
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>
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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
Peter TB Brett wrote:
> I'm currently working on the LiveCode 8 release notes (in preparation
> for RC 1!)
>
> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can
> make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.

A frequently-asked question is which version of xTools is needed for iOS
deployment.

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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

Monte Goulding-2
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
Hi Peter

I’m not sure if you’ve seen this report of mine or if your review of the release notes includes a review of server notes or is desktop only.

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16350 <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16350>

Basically I think the above could be resolved and things simplified in general if the installation guide is a separate file. Maybe even a separate file per platform.

A loong time ago I had fun with git on a rainy weekend and came up with a web app that was intended to be a github/bitbucket service hook. Here’s what it pumped out:

http://ecove.on-rev.com/mergext.com/notes.html <http://ecove.on-rev.com/mergext.com/notes.html>

Actually it’s markdown files that are pumped out and the above page is rentered by flatdoc http://ricostacruz.com/flatdoc/

I even registered git-v.info but I never got around to deploying it after realising the server resources required could blow out quite rapidly. I’ve still got the code though it probably needs some extra work to handle the multiple notes directories and multiple development branches that the repo now has. The basic idea was that people could see exactly which version a change was made in and link to the commit and bug report and also see what is upcoming on a release branch and on the development frontier.

Anyway, I’m positive you know how to get the notes out of git in the same way I did here I just thought you might be interested to see the format and how live updates to the notes via a service hook could be used to let people know what’s on the way etc.

Cheers

Monte

> On 15 Dec 2015, at 4:46 am, Peter TB Brett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently working on the LiveCode 8 release notes (in preparation for RC 1!)
>
> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.
>
> * What's good about the current LiveCode release notes?
> * How can we make them better?
> * What additional information would be helpful to include?
> * What can be removed or abbreviated to make them more concise?
>
> For example, here are the LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-11 release notes:
>
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-8_0_0_dp_11.pdf
>
> Please reply and let me know your thoughts -- or feel free to e-mail me off-list.
>
>                                         Peter
>
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett <[hidden email]>
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>
> LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

Peter TB Brett
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
On 15/12/2015 00:28, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Peter TB Brett wrote:
>> I'm currently working on the LiveCode 8 release notes (in preparation
>> for RC 1!)
>>
>> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can
>> make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.
>
> A frequently-asked question is which version of xTools is needed for iOS
> deployment.

Is the info in the "Platform Support: iOS" section of the 8.0.0-dp-11
release notes not enough?  What else should be in there?

                                      Peter

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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

Peter TB Brett
In reply to this post by Monte Goulding-2


On 15/12/2015 01:00, Monte Goulding wrote:
> Hi Peter
>
> I’m not sure if you’ve seen this report of mine or if your review of the release notes includes a review of server notes or is desktop only.
>
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16350 <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16350>
>
> Basically I think the above could be resolved and things simplified in general if the installation guide is a separate file. Maybe even a separate file per platform.

Yes, I want to make the installation guide separate, but I'm not sure
that I'll be able to do that in time for LiveCode 8.

Actually, for the server, I'd rather write a "Server Deployment" guide
to live in the IDE (and on a currently hypothetical
automatically-updated documentation website).  The actual *installation*
of LiveCode server is very straightforward, but integrating it into
Apache / nginx / (insert HTTP server here) is entirely another order of
magnitude of difficulty.

> A loong time ago I had fun with git on a rainy weekend and came up with a web app that was intended to be a github/bitbucket service hook. Here’s what it pumped out:
>
> http://ecove.on-rev.com/mergext.com/notes.html <http://ecove.on-rev.com/mergext.com/notes.html>
>
> Actually it’s markdown files that are pumped out and the above page is rentered by flatdoc http://ricostacruz.com/flatdoc/
>
> I even registered git-v.info but I never got around to deploying it after realising the server resources required could blow out quite rapidly. I’ve still got the code though it probably needs some extra work to handle the multiple notes directories and multiple development branches that the repo now has. The basic idea was that people could see exactly which version a change was made in and link to the commit and bug report and also see what is upcoming on a release branch and on the development frontier.
>
> Anyway, I’m positive you know how to get the notes out of git in the same way I did here I just thought you might be interested to see the format and how live updates to the notes via a service hook could be used to let people know what’s on the way etc.

Our release notes aren't generated from the git log, for various reasons
-- often git commit log comments are not written with the end user of
the software as the intended reader.  And of course rewriting the git
log for every LiveCode 8 git commit would be perhaps too
resource-intensive a task. ;-)

                                  Peter


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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

Peter TB Brett
In reply to this post by mwieder


On 14/12/2015 18:00, Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 12/14/2015 09:46 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>
>> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can
>> make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.
>
> How about alphabetizing the Dictionary Additions and Dictionary Changes
> lists?

Good plan.

How useful are those sections?  Does anyone actually rely on them for
anything?

The majority of the "dictionary changes" appear to be, "Fix some
formatting" or "Tweak some grammar" rather than any change to the actual
behaviour of the syntax.

                                   Peter

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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

Dave Kilroy
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
Peter, the extra info and up to date info on Xcode and Android in the DP11 release notes are great :)

In general, the DP11 release notes are already a big improvement on earlier versions

Dave

Peter TB Brett wrote
On 15/12/2015 00:28, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Peter TB Brett wrote:
>> I'm currently working on the LiveCode 8 release notes (in preparation
>> for RC 1!)
>>
>> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can
>> make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.
>
> A frequently-asked question is which version of xTools is needed for iOS
> deployment.

Is the info in the "Platform Support: iOS" section of the 8.0.0-dp-11
release notes not enough?  What else should be in there?

                                      Peter

--
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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

Peter TB Brett
In reply to this post by mwieder
On 14/12/2015 18:13, Mark Wieder wrote:

> On 12/14/2015 09:46 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm currently working on the LiveCode 8 release notes (in preparation
>> for RC 1!)
>>
>> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can
>> make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.
>
> The release notes mention Raspberry Pi, but it's been a while (April)
> since there was a release for the pi, and there's never been an 8.0
> release for that platform.

Heh, it is a bit misleading.  We *support* rPi, but we don't build for
it!  As I understand it, we intend to start releasing rPi-compatible
linux-arv6hf builds before LiveCode 8.0.0 final release.

Fraser has a pull request that tweaks the build configuration files to
make it easier to build for rPi.
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3398

I need to set up a build worker for rPi on our CI system... maybe after
I deal with the release notes.

                                    Peter :-)

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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

Peter TB Brett
In reply to this post by David Bovill-3
On 14/12/2015 18:31, David Bovill wrote:
> For me Release notes should be available in a searchable format in the IDE.
> I get pretty tired of digging through pdf's to find core information?

We can definitely put them in the IDE somehow.  The changes I'm working
on also make it easier to do that!

I've added a feature request here:

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16604

                                            Peter

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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

Peter TB Brett
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
On 15/12/2015 09:06, Peter TB Brett wrote:

> On 14/12/2015 18:13, Mark Wieder wrote:
>> On 12/14/2015 09:46 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm currently working on the LiveCode 8 release notes (in preparation
>>> for RC 1!)
>>>
>>> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can
>>> make the LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.
>>
>> The release notes mention Raspberry Pi, but it's been a while (April)
>> since there was a release for the pi, and there's never been an 8.0
>> release for that platform.
>
> Heh, it is a bit misleading.  We *support* rPi, but we don't build for
> it!  As I understand it, we intend to start releasing rPi-compatible
> linux-arv6hf builds before LiveCode 8.0.0 final release.

Embarrassingly, I spoke to some of the core dev team this morning, and
it turns out that I am (very) incorrect about how difficult it will be
to start releasing rPi builds again.

                                       Peter :-(

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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

Monte Goulding-2
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
Yes, my code generates the full markdown release notes using added change notes files between release tags in the repo which is what I presume you are doing. Definitely don't want to use the commit messages. Particularly the bulk of mine ;-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On 15 Dec 2015, at 7:58 pm, Peter TB Brett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Our release notes aren't generated from the git log, for various reasons -- often git commit log comments are not written with the end user of the software as the intended reader.  And of course rewriting the git log for every LiveCode 8 git commit would be perhaps too resource-intensive a task. ;-)

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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

Pyyhtiä Christer
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
The simplest way in my mind would be one User / Reference Manual, which includes any change from previous version (release note) with for example XML markup, e.g.:

<V8.1.1>
This is V8.1.1 stuff...
</V8.1.1>

Further, any examples for any function should include a hyperlink to a web page explaining the use.  Believing that every developer has sufficient bandwidth available, this web site should replace the IDE embedded dictionary.

These should be fairly easy to be maintained by RR.

Ideally, the User / Reference manual could also base on wiki.


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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

[-hh]
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
> Peter wrote:
> I need to set up a build worker for rPi on our CI
> system... maybe after I deal with the release notes.

This forces me to add also an egoist wish:

The release notes could be shortened to 6-7 short lines.

[1] LC version ... released on <date>
[2] Link to GitHub https://github.com/livecode
[3] Link to QC http://quality.livecode.com/
[4] progressState of LC Builder is <percentage>
[5] progressState of HTML5 builder is <percentage>
[6] progressState of other features <list> is <percentages>
[7] Health and Wealth of LC-team is <enum> and <enum>

The big development steps/improvements are and will be
described better in LC blogs and articles(TWIL) anyway.
By the above they'll attract better attention.

So you are ready in ten minutes to start with setting up
a build worker for RaspberryPi.

Just launch your rockets for that, please! :-))
And don't forget to invite Fraser for this trip.

Hermann

p.s. You'll win also this 'test engine':
Test a stack in the IDE on RaspberryPiB --- the speed is very
close to that you can await for a HTML standalone for a medium
fast machine (or vice versa).


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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by Peter TB Brett
The current release notes are already available in the IDE (at least through v7,) but I think what's being asked for is the ability to search all previous notes. I've had the same problem, where I remember a new feature or syntax has been introduced but I can't recall the name to look up in the dictionary or which release introduced it.

This may be too large a scope for inclusion in the IDE but it would be nice to have a website or somewhere with an inclusive search. Richard has collected all the release notes at LiveCode Journal but that still requires opening each file and searching it separately.

On December 15, 2015 3:20:17 AM CST, Peter TB Brett <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On 14/12/2015 18:31, David Bovill wrote:
>> For me Release notes should be available in a searchable format in
>the IDE.
>> I get pretty tired of digging through pdf's to find core information?
>
>We can definitely put them in the IDE somehow.  The changes I'm working
>
>on also make it easier to do that!
>
>I've added a feature request here:
>
>http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16604
>
>                                            Peter

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