Internet checking?

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Internet checking?

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
I know this is a golden oldie, but I can’t find a reference… I have a script that wants to check a file on a server, and basically to do nothing if the program is offline.

Remind me, is there an easy way to tell from within an LC standalone if the internet is not accessible? I don’t want my program to hang. I understand the URLStatus will eventually tell me if access did not occur, but I don’t understand how to limit the waiting time to something reasonable. I notice that some browsers can actually display a message saying something like “you are not connected to the internet” - how do they do that?

TIA

Graham
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Re: Internet checking?

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Here is a script I use. A lot of this stuff won't make sense because it is part of my interface with sqlYoga, but the core is a repeat loop where I open a socket to the server, then check if the socket is among the lines of the openSockets. If it is I exit the repeat loop and close the socket, then return true, otherwise I wait 1 second, then try again. After 5 failed attempts I alert the user and offer to try again (2 repeat loops) until t he user cancels in which case I exit to top.

This has worked fairly well for me. On the flip side I religiously ensure I close the database connection after I am done with it, but of course you are using it to access a file. Same principle though.

Bob S


> On Feb 28, 2018, at 15:20 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> [This message was identified as a phishing scam. Learn about phishing at http://aka.ms/LearnAboutPhishing]
>
> I know this is a golden oldie, but I can’t find a reference… I have a script that wants to check a file on a server, and basically to do nothing if the program is offline.
>
> Remind me, is there an easy way to tell from within an LC standalone if the internet is not accessible? I don’t want my program to hang. I understand the URLStatus will eventually tell me if access did not occur, but I don’t understand how to limit the waiting time to something reasonable. I notice that some browsers can actually display a message saying something like “you are not connected to the internet” - how do they do that?
>
> TIA
>
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Internet checking?

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
On 2/28/18 5:20 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
> I know this is a golden oldie, but I can’t find a reference… I have a script that wants to check a file on a server, and basically to do nothing if the program is offline.
>
> Remind me, is there an easy way to tell from within an LC standalone if the internet is not accessible? I don’t want my program to hang. I understand the URLStatus will eventually tell me if access did not occur, but I don’t understand how to limit the waiting time to something reasonable. I notice that some browsers can actually display a message saying something like “you are not connected to the internet” - how do they do that?

I haven't actually played with it, but it looks like tsNetSetTimeouts
might work if you set the pConnectTimeoutMS (the third param) to
something shorter than the default. Then when you try to retrieve your
file when there is no connection, you should get an error from tsNet.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Internet checking?

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Jacque, thanks. It seems like overkill to load up and initialise tsnet just to get a 20-byte text file. I’m really surprised there isn’t a foolproof way to find out if one’s device is connected to the internet or not. I am not good on internet functions, but don’t a huge number of apps in the real world want to know if they’re connected or not?

Maybe I will write a tiny standalone that just talks to my server, and experiment with switching off the internet connection to see what errors I get.

Puzzled

Graham

> On 1 Mar 2018, at 06:47, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 2/28/18 5:20 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
>> I know this is a golden oldie, but I can’t find a reference… I have a script that wants to check a file on a server, and basically to do nothing if the program is offline.
>> Remind me, is there an easy way to tell from within an LC standalone if the internet is not accessible? I don’t want my program to hang. I understand the URLStatus will eventually tell me if access did not occur, but I don’t understand how to limit the waiting time to something reasonable. I notice that some browsers can actually display a message saying something like “you are not connected to the internet” - how do they do that?
>
> I haven't actually played with it, but it looks like tsNetSetTimeouts might work if you set the pConnectTimeoutMS (the third param) to something shorter than the default. Then when you try to retrieve your file when there is no connection, you should get an error from tsNet.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Internet checking?

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
I wrote:

>
> Maybe I will write a tiny standalone that just talks to my server, and experiment with switching off the internet connection to see what errors I get.

I just did that, but so far have only used it in the IDE. I found out two things:

1. Despite my not being particularly interested in tsnet, if I run this program from the IDE, it uses tsnet. I’m not sure if it’s my responsibility to initialise tsnet or not, either here in the IDE (unlikely) or in a standalone (more likely).

2. If I switch off my internet connection, I get the result “tsneterr: (7)”

Seems interesting, so I have looked for a list of tsnet error numbers, but I can’t find it. Basically all I can find about tsnet is the stuff in the dictionary and some press releases. Can anyone point me at its error list?

TIA

Graham


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Re: Internet checking?

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Hi Graham,

Why don’t you just check for the existence of "tsneterr: (7)”?

Rick

> On Mar 2, 2018, at 7:18 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> 2. If I switch off my internet connection, I get the result “tsneterr: (7)”

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Re: Internet checking?

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Rick, thanks for the reply.

Well, sounds good, but as I have no idea of the range of happenings that could generate that error, I need a bit more information first!

It’s odd how hard it is to find this stuff out. If it wasn’t for the nice little ‘LiveCode Error Lookup’ plug-in that’s been around for ages (Jacque, was it you that created it?) we’d have the same problem with error numbers in mainline LC. Actually, perhaps one should ask the mother ship to add tsnet errors to the plug-in… think I will.

Graham

> On 2 Mar 2018, at 15:23, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Graham,
>
> Why don’t you just check for the existence of "tsneterr: (7)”?
>
> Rick
>
>> On Mar 2, 2018, at 7:18 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 2. If I switch off my internet connection, I get the result “tsneterr: (7)”
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Internet checking?

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Hi Graham.

Whether or not you are connected to the internet isn't really the issue, is it? All that means is that you have a route to the WAN port of your edge router. I mean, the real issue is finding out if you can reach a particular server on a particular port using DNS, or else a given IP address, whether or not it is "on the internet". That is I think, what you really mean.

The code I posted, while it has some exterraneous code dependent on sqlYoga calls, neverless is a framework for doing that.

1. Outer loop to allow user to retry (not strictly necessary but it lets the user attempt to fix the problem before dumping him).
2. Inner loop to open socket to prescribed server (Not necessary either, but you may want to check multiple times for the open socket in case of slow connections, and timeout after x tries).

Bob S


> On Mar 2, 2018, at 03:44 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I’m really surprised there isn’t a foolproof way to find out if one’s device is connected to the internet or not.

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Re: Internet checking?

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Bob of course you’re right - in my particular case, anyway, I just want to know if I can access me chosen server or not.

But one could certainly imagine programs that would want to know if they were wasting their time offering their users a broader internet access - I mean any program that allows the user to specify addresses (like a browser does) would want more of an “is there or isn’t there?” approach. On my Mac, the Apple browser Safari can announce “you are not connected to the internet”. Maybe it just pings a trusted source and waits for a reasonable time for the reaction.

Anyway what I noticed in my little experiment was that the reaction of the script when the internet wasn’t available was very rapid (certainly less than half a second), which means that just trying to get the file and then looking for an error response would probably be OK for a human user, since there is no prolonged wait.

As you see, I am reluctant to do anything that’s at all complicated!

Graham

> On 2 Mar 2018, at 16:47, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Graham.
>
> Whether or not you are connected to the internet isn't really the issue, is it? All that means is that you have a route to the WAN port of your edge router. I mean, the real issue is finding out if you can reach a particular server on a particular port using DNS, or else a given IP address, whether or not it is "on the internet". That is I think, what you really mean.
>
> The code I posted, while it has some exterraneous code dependent on sqlYoga calls, neverless is a framework for doing that.
>
> 1. Outer loop to allow user to retry (not strictly necessary but it lets the user attempt to fix the problem before dumping him).
> 2. Inner loop to open socket to prescribed server (Not necessary either, but you may want to check multiple times for the open socket in case of slow connections, and timeout after x tries).
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Mar 2, 2018, at 03:44 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I’m really surprised there isn’t a foolproof way to find out if one’s device is connected to the internet or not.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: Internet checking?

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Yes, trying to figure out WHY the connection failed is trickier. I think you are right that Safari pings an IP (to exclude DNS problems) and then looks at the response. A ping that has no route will report something like Destination Unreachable as opposed to timeout. On my Apple terminal, if I ping a bogus DNS name, I get cannot resolve <hostname>: unknown host. If I ping a bogus IP, I get a timeout. If I disable all network adapters I get a timeout AND sendto: No route to host. Windows probably does something similar.

I suppose you could simply ping through a shell and then peruse the responses.

Bob S


> On Mar 2, 2018, at 10:09 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bob of course you’re right - in my particular case, anyway, I just want to know if I can access me chosen server or not.
>
> But one could certainly imagine programs that would want to know if they were wasting their time offering their users a broader internet access - I mean any program that allows the user to specify addresses (like a browser does) would want more of an “is there or isn’t there?” approach. On my Mac, the Apple browser Safari can announce “you are not connected to the internet”. Maybe it just pings a trusted source and waits for a reasonable time for the reaction.
>
> Anyway what I noticed in my little experiment was that the reaction of the script when the internet wasn’t available was very rapid (certainly less than half a second), which means that just trying to get the file and then looking for an error response would probably be OK for a human user, since there is no prolonged wait.
>
> As you see, I am reluctant to do anything that’s at all complicated!
>
> Graham

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RE: Internet checking?

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
If the FQDN's IP is cached you will get timeouts when there is no network connection. A DNS cache entry is valid until TTL is exceeded. If the DNS cache entry is stale or not cached then you will get "unknown host" when there is no network connection.

I check the network availability in my mobile apps by:
1) Set the network timeout to 2 seconds.
2) Send an https request to a webpage that calls an LC server script.
3) If there is a network connection then script returns turns an LC array with the "Status" key value of "OK". I set the app to "Network Available".
4) If there is a timeout I set the app to "Network Not Available".
5) Set the network timeout back to the previous value.

I don't check the tsNet error to find out why the "ping" failed.
I have a timer set to check if the network is up periodically.
 
Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
[hidden email]


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2018 3:02 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Bob Sneidar
Subject: Re: Internet checking?

Yes, trying to figure out WHY the connection failed is trickier. I think you are right that Safari pings an IP (to exclude DNS problems) and then looks at the response. A ping that has no route will report something like Destination Unreachable as opposed to timeout. On my Apple terminal, if I ping a bogus DNS name, I get cannot resolve <hostname>: unknown host. If I ping a bogus IP, I get a timeout. If I disable all network adapters I get a timeout AND sendto: No route to host. Windows probably does something similar.

I suppose you could simply ping through a shell and then peruse the responses.

Bob S


> On Mar 2, 2018, at 10:09 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bob of course you’re right - in my particular case, anyway, I just want to know if I can access me chosen server or not.
>
> But one could certainly imagine programs that would want to know if they were wasting their time offering their users a broader internet access - I mean any program that allows the user to specify addresses (like a browser does) would want more of an “is there or isn’t there?” approach. On my Mac, the Apple browser Safari can announce “you are not connected to the internet”. Maybe it just pings a trusted source and waits for a reasonable time for the reaction.
>
> Anyway what I noticed in my little experiment was that the reaction of the script when the internet wasn’t available was very rapid (certainly less than half a second), which means that just trying to get the file and then looking for an error response would probably be OK for a human user, since there is no prolonged wait.
>
> As you see, I am reluctant to do anything that’s at all complicated!
>
> Graham

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Stupid Question re LC9

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Folks:
I’ve been away from Livecode for the past 4 months and am doing a very small project in the latest LC9 DP11 and when I put in a breakpoint, when it activates, I only get a list of the system handlers in the debug window. These things are usually at the bottom of the window, but it is way off the bottom of my screen. I’ve tried to set the rect in the message box, to no avail.

I know there must be some kind of toggle to get the debug window sized, but …..

Sorry for the newby-like question, but things have changed quite a bit in the last several months.

Best,
Bill



William A. Prothero
http://earthlearningsolution.org/

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Re: Stupid Question re LC9

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Hi Will... I don't know the answer to your question, but I did click on
your web link ...(i enjoy learning about companies that use livecode)...and
your site seems to not be there at all. just an fyi,.

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 4:01 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Folks:
> I’ve been away from Livecode for the past 4 months and am doing a very
> small project in the latest LC9 DP11 and when I put in a breakpoint, when
> it activates, I only get a list of the system handlers in the debug window.
> These things are usually at the bottom of the window, but it is way off the
> bottom of my screen. I’ve tried to set the rect in the message box, to no
> avail.
>
> I know there must be some kind of toggle to get the debug window sized,
> but …..
>
> Sorry for the newby-like question, but things have changed quite a bit in
> the last several months.
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
>
>
> William A. Prothero
> http://earthlearningsolution.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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Re: Stupid Question re LC9

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Thought I had it, using:
"set the rect of window "revNewScriptEditor 1" to 100,100,200,200
in the message box, but none of the variables and their values show up.
Is there a control key command to toggle back to the normal display?
Bill

> On Mar 2, 2018, at 1:01 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Folks:
> I’ve been away from Livecode for the past 4 months and am doing a very small project in the latest LC9 DP11 and when I put in a breakpoint, when it activates, I only get a list of the system handlers in the debug window. These things are usually at the bottom of the window, but it is way off the bottom of my screen. I’ve tried to set the rect in the message box, to no avail.
>
> I know there must be some kind of toggle to get the debug window sized, but …..
>
> Sorry for the newby-like question, but things have changed quite a bit in the last several months.
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
>
>
> William A. Prothero
> http://earthlearningsolution.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: Stupid Question re LC9

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Because it´s http://earthlearningsolutions.org <http://earthlearningsolutions.org/>

Bill has a typo in his signature.

Rebards,
Matthias

Matthias Rebbe
Tel +49 5741 310000
https://matthiasrebbe.eu <https://matthiasrebbe.eu/>‌

> Am 02.03.2018 um 22:10 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
> Hi Will... I don't know the answer to your question, but I did click on
> your web link ...(i enjoy learning about companies that use livecode)...and
> your site seems to not be there at all. just an fyi,.
>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 4:01 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode <
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>> Folks:
>> I’ve been away from Livecode for the past 4 months and am doing a very
>> small project in the latest LC9 DP11 and when I put in a breakpoint, when
>> it activates, I only get a list of the system handlers in the debug window.
>> These things are usually at the bottom of the window, but it is way off the
>> bottom of my screen. I’ve tried to set the rect in the message box, to no
>> avail.
>>
>> I know there must be some kind of toggle to get the debug window sized,
>> but …..
>>
>> Sorry for the newby-like question, but things have changed quite a bit in
>> the last several months.
>>
>> Best,
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>> William A. Prothero
>> http://earthlearningsolution.org/ <http://earthlearningsolution.org/>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
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Re: Stupid Question re LC9

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Tom:
Thanks for the “heads up”. Gaads, I’ve been using that mis-spelled link for longer than I remember. Anyway, here is the correct one:

William A. Prothero
http://earthlearningsolutions.org

Bill

> On Mar 2, 2018, at 1:10 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Will... I don't know the answer to your question, but I did click on
> your web link ...(i enjoy learning about companies that use livecode)...and
> your site seems to not be there at all. just an fyi,.
>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 4:01 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Folks:
>> I’ve been away from Livecode for the past 4 months and am doing a very
>> small project in the latest LC9 DP11 and when I put in a breakpoint, when
>> it activates, I only get a list of the system handlers in the debug window.
>> These things are usually at the bottom of the window, but it is way off the
>> bottom of my screen. I’ve tried to set the rect in the message box, to no
>> avail.
>>
>> I know there must be some kind of toggle to get the debug window sized,
>> but …..
>>
>> Sorry for the newby-like question, but things have changed quite a bit in
>> the last several months.
>>
>> Best,
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>> William A. Prothero
>> http://earthlearningsolution.org/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: Stupid Question re LC9

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Try setting the loc to the screenloc.

Bob S


> On Mar 2, 2018, at 13:10 , William Prothero via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thought I had it, using:
> "set the rect of window "revNewScriptEditor 1" to 100,100,200,200
> in the message box, but none of the variables and their values show up.
> Is there a control key command to toggle back to the normal display?
> Bill


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Re: Stupid Question re LC9

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
OIC you are missing the variables pane. If the handle for getting it back is gone, you may have to qiot, delete your preferences and relaunch.

Bob S
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Re: Stupid Question re LC9

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
the brain.....filling...... things.......in.  Such a blessing and such a
hazard. All the best Bill

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 4:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> OIC you are missing the variables pane. If the handle for getting it back
> is gone, you may have to qiot, delete your preferences and relaunch.
>
> Bob S
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Re: Stupid Question re LC9

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Bob:
Yeah, I agree. I had a 4  mo vacation in the hospital because of a side effect of a biopsy. One of the “shxxx happens situations.” Fortunately I survived an am getting back into the swing of my life.

Best,
Bill


> On Mar 2, 2018, at 1:52 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> the brain.....filling...... things.......in.  Such a blessing and such a
> hazard. All the best Bill
>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 4:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> OIC you are missing the variables pane. If the handle for getting it back
>> is gone, you may have to qiot, delete your preferences and relaunch.
>>
>> Bob S
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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