Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

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Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

gcbrackett
I'm planning a simple programming course for high school using revMedia (because it's free), which only produces revlets. I was immediately stumped by an early project to create and gradually improve an Assignments stack that would help our students keep track of their assignments. Alas, saving the current state of a revlet is not possible.

One way to enable students to produce information-handling projects for themselves (where information is entered, stored, edited, deleted) would be giving them an environment where the URL of the revlet is passed by parameter to the revlet code, and including a pre-written 'save' command in a project starter stack that can write the information to a text file at the revlet's URL. A big help would be to alter the standard test HTML so that the embed code passes that information.

Is it possible to change the test HTML generated by revMedia? Where is it stored? Or can you think of a better way to set things up so that students can store information-handling revlets in their own accounts on a school server and not have to run them in revMedia but just call them up on a browser? I would REALLY like to engage students in creating revlets that other kids at the school can use.

George

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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

J. Landman Gay
George C Brackett wrote:

> One way to enable students to produce information-handling projects
> for themselves (where information is entered, stored, edited,
> deleted) would be giving them an environment where the URL of the
> revlet is passed by parameter to the revlet code, and including a
> pre-written 'save' command in a project starter stack that can write
> the information to a text file at the revlet's URL. A big help would
> be to alter the standard test HTML so that the embed code passes that
> information.
>
> Is it possible to change the test HTML generated by revMedia?

Sure, and you can do that yourself easily. The HTML file is created in
the same folder as your revlet after you do a build. Just alter that.

You need to add a parameter to the javascript section. You can name it
whatever you want, and give it the value of the URL where you will be
storing the revlet on the server. Then in your stack, call "the
revletParams of this stack" to get a list of all those parameters that
the javascript has passed.

For example:

<object classid="CLSID:B2EC94AF-4716-4300-824A-3314BF23664A" width=640
height=480>
        <param name="src" value="myMain.revlet"/>
        <param name="stack" value="myMain"/>
        <param name="requestedName" value=""/>
        <param name="instanceID" value=""/>
        <param name="myPath" value="http://www.mydomain.com/myrevlet.revlet"/>
        <embed type="application/x-revolution"
                src="myrevlet.revlet"
                width=640 height=480
                stack="myMain"
                requestedName=""
                instanceID=""
                myPath="http://www.mydomain.com/myrevlet.revlet"
        ></embed>
</object>

For saving, you'll need to use scripts that act like desktop apps; the
revlet's defaultfolder is on the user's local hard drive, not on the
server. You can think of revlets as mini standalones, for the purposes
of file paths. You'll need to use an FTP URL that includes a user name
and password if you want to write to the server.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

gcbrackett
Thanks very much for your advice and script!  They confirm my understanding of this new territory.

I would like to do something just slightly different, though. I would like the embed code to pick up the revlet's URL from server variables ($HTTP_HOST & $REQUEST_URI), not from a fixed path. I see now that this would require the revlet to be running from a webserver, not a file server, but I can handle that issue. I haven't tried this approach yet, but recent posts suggest it's possible.

I would also like not to have to replace the html page after it is created by the IDE, but to pre-create it (hmmm - sounds sort of god-like) in the location the IDE uses to store its template. I don't know if that's possible, but it would streamline the process.

George

On Dec 3, 2009, at 1:02 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

George C Brackett wrote:

> One way to enable students to produce information-handling projects
> for themselves (where information is entered, stored, edited,
> deleted) would be giving them an environment where the URL of the
> revlet is passed by parameter to the revlet code, and including a
> pre-written 'save' command in a project starter stack that can write
> the information to a text file at the revlet's URL. A big help would
> be to alter the standard test HTML so that the embed code passes that
> information.
> Is it possible to change the test HTML generated by revMedia?

Sure, and you can do that yourself easily. The HTML file is created in the same folder as your revlet after you do a build. Just alter that.

You need to add a parameter to the javascript section. You can name it whatever you want, and give it the value of the URL where you will be storing the revlet on the server. Then in your stack, call "the revletParams of this stack" to get a list of all those parameters that the javascript has passed.

For example:

<object classid="CLSID:B2EC94AF-4716-4300-824A-3314BF23664A" width=640 height=480>
        <param name="src" value="myMain.revlet"/>
        <param name="stack" value="myMain"/>
        <param name="requestedName" value=""/>
        <param name="instanceID" value=""/>
        <param name="myPath" value="http://www.mydomain.com/myrevlet.revlet"/>
        <embed type="application/x-revolution"
                src="myrevlet.revlet"
                width=640 height=480
                stack="myMain"
                requestedName=""
                instanceID=""
                myPath="http://www.mydomain.com/myrevlet.revlet"
        ></embed>
</object>

For saving, you'll need to use scripts that act like desktop apps; the revlet's defaultfolder is on the user's local hard drive, not on the server. You can think of revlets as mini standalones, for the purposes of file paths. You'll need to use an FTP URL that includes a user name and password if you want to write to the server.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

mwieder
George-

Thursday, December 3, 2009, 10:18:22 AM, you wrote:

> I would also like not to have to replace the html page after it
> is created by the IDE, but to pre-create it (hmmm - sounds sort of
> god-like) in the location the IDE uses to store its template. I
> don't know if that's possible, but it would streamline the process.

It's possible, but it's a bad idea. The template is stored as a custom
property in an IDE stack, and changing it will change the HTML created
for any revlet. You don't get the chance to catch it on the fly. It
would be a much better idea to modify it after creation, as Jacque
suggested.

--
-Mark Wieder
 [hidden email]

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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

ScottR
In reply to this post by gcbrackett
Recently, George C Brackett wrote:

> I'm planning a simple programming course for high school using revMedia
> (because it's free), which only produces revlets. I was immediately stumped by
> an early project to create and gradually improve an Assignments stack that
> would help our students keep track of their assignments. Alas, saving the
> current state of a revlet is not possible.

I could be mistaken or totally misreading this but isn't this what cookies
are for?  I don't know how much data represents your revlet "state", and I
seem to recall that the amount of data that can be saved in a cookie is
limited, but from what you describe this sounds like it could be a use for a
browser cookie.  Other more knowledgeable folks might chime in here.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design


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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by gcbrackett
George C Brackett wrote:
>
> I would like to do something just slightly different, though. I would
> like the embed code to pick up the revlet's URL from server variables
> ($HTTP_HOST & $REQUEST_URI), not from a fixed path. I see now that
> this would require the revlet to be running from a webserver, not a
> file server, but I can handle that issue. I haven't tried this
> approach yet, but recent posts suggest it's possible.

In that case you are talking about generating your web page dynamically.
You need a way to do that (which is something different than revlets,
it's HTML.) You can use an old-style Rev CGI, or better, an iRev page if
you are on the On-Rev server. Or you can use PHP or another language
that can generate web pages on the fly.

>
> I would also like not to have to replace the html page after it is
> created by the IDE, but to pre-create it (hmmm - sounds sort of
> god-like) in the location the IDE uses to store its template. I don't
> know if that's possible, but it would streamline the process.

As Mark said, there isn't a way to intercept the original creation of
the HTML test page, but you could write a little script that replaces
the existing one with your custom one after the fact. What I do is just
alter the test page once, and then after every new revlet build I just
drop the new revlet into the permanent folder with my altered HTML page,
replacing the old revlet. It's pretty easy.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

gcbrackett
In reply to this post by ScottR
It's a very good idea, a cookie, and it hadn't occurred to me. Unfortunately I'm teaching in an environment where students don't always use the same machine (on which the cookie is stored), so a server-storage solution is what I need.

In a way, this situation is caused by the lack of a revMedia stack player, so that stacks could be saved after alteration (a new assignment added) instead of being transformed into an unchangeable revlet. I guess the folks at RunRev see a player as adding so much functionality that offering revMedia for free would no longer be good business.  I'm not so sure about that.

George

On Dec 3, 2009, at 1:39 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

Recently, George C Brackett wrote:

> I'm planning a simple programming course for high school using revMedia
> (because it's free), which only produces revlets. I was immediately stumped by
> an early project to create and gradually improve an Assignments stack that
> would help our students keep track of their assignments. Alas, saving the
> current state of a revlet is not possible.

I could be mistaken or totally misreading this but isn't this what cookies
are for?  I don't know how much data represents your revlet "state", and I
seem to recall that the amount of data that can be saved in a cookie is
limited, but from what you describe this sounds like it could be a use for a
browser cookie.  Other more knowledgeable folks might chime in here.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design


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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

Alejandro Tejada
In reply to this post by gcbrackett
Hi George,

Actually, given that html files are only text files, you could
write a handler that:
1) reads the template html file generated while building the revlet,
2) collect the data of this html to create a new html file
using a specific template created for the revlet author.
From my point of view, this is only an automatic copy and
paste operation. Ideally, it shoud be a one step operation,
but in your case, will be two step instead of one.

About saving the state of revlets, keep reading about some
ideas to solve this.

I recommend that you teach your students in first place
the nuts and bolts of authoring using RevMedia:
Principles of Layout, Navigation aids (buttons, text hyperlinks,
hidden buttons, etc...), Information displayed and hidden,
Image optimization (please, do not allow them to create
bloated revlets), Color armonization, User feedback, etc...
(Actually, developers more experienced could complete this
short list of topics that i wrote...)

Please take a look at this Multiple choice test made by a
fellow teacher for his computer classes, using a template
that i give him.

If my website in 000space were more reliable serving
revlet based content, i would ask you to visit the html
webpage. But no, it doesn't work reliably. So, i ask you
to download both pieces (html and revlet) to run locally:

http://capellan2000.000space.com/examen_msw.zip

He told me that this test is largely unfinished and
needs to correct ortography and wording of
selection items. I believe that he had to change
his images to reduce the revlet size and check in
detail the importance of every question.

Notice that this exam ask for permissions to use the
network and write files to your disk, when you
enter the page.

Effectively, when you finish this (still incomplete)
exam, the revlet ask you to save the results in
your hard disk.

These results are saved in two formats: one file is plain
text and the other is an encoded (could be encrypted)
version of this text file. Students should send both files
to their teacher. If i want or fellow teachers made a request,
instead of saving the files to student computer,
i could show a text field in the screen and ask the student
to copy and paste this field content in a text document,
saved with his name and date. In this way, it should be
completely innecessary to ask permission to use the network
and write to Hard disk.

Of course, using this same method, students could save binary
data (encoded as Base64, Ascii 85, etc...) by simple copy
and paste to a text file, without showing a warning.

This same method of copy and paste could be used to
input data to the revlet, if you ask the student to paste
information of their more recent session and click a button
to process the data. :-)

Notice that some software simulations (games), give you
a letter and numbers code after you clear a level. When
the software simulation (game) starts, users enter this
code to pass directly to next level.

Some possible enhancements, for this Multiple Choice
revlet are:

1) send the results directly to the teacher's mail
from the stack, just like PHP or Perl scripts send
emails from a web page.

2) write output to a file in the server, so students
could download this results file from the webpage...

3) write a record inside a database running in the server...


George C Brackett wrote
I'm planning a simple programming course for high school using revMedia (because it's free), which only produces revlets. I was immediately stumped by an early project to create and gradually improve an Assignments stack that would help our students keep track of their assignments. Alas, saving the current state of a revlet is not possible.
[snip]
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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

William Marriott
In reply to this post by mwieder
Mark,

> It's possible, but it's a bad idea. The template is stored as a custom
> property in an IDE stack, and changing it will change the HTML created
> for any revlet.

I don't do much mucking around in the IDE, but I wonder what that custom
property might be. Could the OP write a stack for his students which says
something like, "set the revHTMLtemplate of stack such-and-such to myHTML"?
These stacks aren't "saved" when you quit Rev, are they? If I'm right about
both of these, couldn't his students double-click that stack, use his custom
template, and quit without making permanent changes to revMedia? I could see
some benefit to adjusting this template, perhaps I'll bring it up as a
feature request for future versions. In the meantime, have you sleuthed down
the name of that custom property?

George,

> In a way, this situation is caused by the lack of a revMedia stack player,
> so that stacks could be saved after alteration (a new assignment added)
> instead of being transformed into an unchangeable revlet. I guess the
> folks
> at RunRev see a player as adding so much functionality that offering
> revMedia for free would no longer be good business.  I'm not so sure about
> that.

It's not that we find the Player to be adding so much functionality; nothing
to do with business model per se. It's that the revWeb plugin is essentially
the new "Player." Better to focus on having one piece of software end users
would install to "play" stacks than two. For one thing, it's one less code
base to maintain. For another, when we flesh out the mechanics of hosting
revlets within system windows, you would theoretically be able to
double-click a revlet and have it open much like it did in the old Player.

- Bill


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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

mwieder
Bill-

Thursday, December 3, 2009, 1:03:52 PM, you wrote:

> I don't do much mucking around in the IDE, but I wonder what that custom
> property might be. Could the OP write a stack for his students which says
> something like, "set the revHTMLtemplate of stack such-and-such to myHTML"?
> These stacks aren't "saved" when you quit Rev, are they? If I'm right about
> both of these, couldn't his students double-click that stack, use his custom
> template, and quit without making permanent changes to revMedia? I could see
> some benefit to adjusting this template, perhaps I'll bring it up as a
> feature request for future versions. In the meantime, have you sleuthed down
> the name of that custom property?

The way things are right now, yes, you do have to make a permanent
change to a rev IDE stack in order to do this before the html page is
created - it's not like changing an object template. The script that
creates the web page from the custom property is protected, for
obvious reasons. While it would certainly be possible to write a
script that saves the custom prop, replaces it with a different one,
invokes the standalone builder, and restores the original prop I don't
see that this gives any advantage over modifying the html page after
creation. And has the distinct possibility of screwing up the original
to the point where revlet web pages can no longer be created. It's a
tech support issue I wouldn't want on my plate.

--
-Mark Wieder
 [hidden email]

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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

Martin Baxter-4
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay
J. Landman Gay wrote:
> What I do is just
> alter the test page once, and then after every new revlet build I just
> drop the new revlet into the permanent folder with my altered HTML page,
> replacing the old revlet. It's pretty easy.
>

Which is what I naturally do too and kind of why I would love to be able
to turn off generation of the annoying test.html entirely. Once is
enough IMO. Every time I generate a revlet this darn test.html page
automatically opens in my text editor.  I had hoped that computing would
get more user-friendly with time, but it got helpful instead, which,
naturally, enrages me. :D

Martin Baxter

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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

J. Landman Gay
Martin Baxter wrote:
> Every time I generate a revlet this darn test.html page
> automatically opens in my text editor.  I had hoped that computing would
> get more user-friendly with time, but it got helpful instead, which,
> naturally, enrages me. :D

Yeah, I've wished I could turn that off too. It's okay the first time
but if I've made changes to the HTML file, I want it to leave me alone.
Maybe auto-display should be an item in the prefs.

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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

Dom-2
In reply to this post by William Marriott
Bill Marriott <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's not that we find the Player to be adding so much functionality; nothing
> to do with business model per se. It's that the revWeb plugin is essentially
> the new "Player." Better to focus on having one piece of software end users
> would install to "play" stacks than two. For one thing, it's one less code
> base to maintain. For another, when we flesh out the mechanics of hosting
> revlets within system windows, you would theoretically be able to
> double-click a revlet and have it open much like it did in the old Player.

OKay :-)

Sure, to have a Player + to download a stack was the "old" solution...
not to mention the platform problem: revlets run equally (IMHO) in all
platforms, since there is nothing to "download", as they run in a web
page.


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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

Andre Garzia-3
In reply to this post by gcbrackett
George,

Create your own html after the revlet is built is the best option. If I were
you, I would not bother changing the html that rev generates, I would
instead build new htmls from the scratch. I think rev sends a message after
the revlet is built, this could trigger the new html creation. Also, it
might have flown below your radar but checkout revletobject at
http://hg.andregarzia.com/revletobject it is easier than working with the
raw embed tag.

Cheers
andre

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM, George C Brackett
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> I'm planning a simple programming course for high school using revMedia
> (because it's free), which only produces revlets. I was immediately stumped
> by an early project to create and gradually improve an Assignments stack
> that would help our students keep track of their assignments. Alas, saving
> the current state of a revlet is not possible.
>
> One way to enable students to produce information-handling projects for
> themselves (where information is entered, stored, edited, deleted) would be
> giving them an environment where the URL of the revlet is passed by
> parameter to the revlet code, and including a pre-written 'save' command in
> a project starter stack that can write the information to a text file at the
> revlet's URL. A big help would be to alter the standard test HTML so that
> the embed code passes that information.
>
> Is it possible to change the test HTML generated by revMedia? Where is it
> stored? Or can you think of a better way to set things up so that students
> can store information-handling revlets in their own accounts on a school
> server and not have to run them in revMedia but just call them up on a
> browser? I would REALLY like to engage students in creating revlets that
> other kids at the school can use.
>
> George
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>



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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

Klaus on-rev
Hi all,

> George,
>
> Create your own html after the revlet is built is the best option. If I were
> you, I would not bother changing the html that rev generates, I would
> instead build new htmls from the scratch. I think rev sends a message after
> the revlet is built, this could trigger the new html creation. Also, it
> might have flown below your radar but checkout revletobject at
> http://hg.andregarzia.com/revletobject it is easier than working with the
> raw embed tag.
>
> Cheers
> andre

isn't it important to use at least the UUID in the Rev generated HTML?
Or does the plugin not check this against the one in the revlet?


Best

Klaus

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http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

Andre Garzia-3
I don't think it does because my javascript doesn't pass it and it works.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Klaus on-rev <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> > George,
> >
> > Create your own html after the revlet is built is the best option. If I
> were
> > you, I would not bother changing the html that rev generates, I would
> > instead build new htmls from the scratch. I think rev sends a message
> after
> > the revlet is built, this could trigger the new html creation. Also, it
> > might have flown below your radar but checkout revletobject at
> > http://hg.andregarzia.com/revletobject it is easier than working with
> the
> > raw embed tag.
> >
> > Cheers
> > andre
>
> isn't it important to use at least the UUID in the Rev generated HTML?
> Or does the plugin not check this against the one in the revlet?
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> http://www.major-k.de
> [hidden email]
>
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> use-revolution mailing list
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

Klaus on-rev
Hi Andre,

> I don't think it does because my javascript doesn't pass it and it works.

I meant the "embedding" HTML.
If not, what is the UUID good for?

> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Klaus on-rev <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>> George,
>>> Create your own html after the revlet is built is the best option. If I
>>> were
>>> you, I would not bother changing the html that rev generates, I would
>>> instead build new htmls from the scratch. I think rev sends a message
>>> after
>>> the revlet is built, this could trigger the new html creation. Also, it
>>> might have flown below your radar but checkout revletobject at
>>> http://hg.andregarzia.com/revletobject it is easier than working with
>>> theraw embed tag.
>>> Cheers
>>> andre
>> isn't it important to use at least the UUID in the Rev generated HTML?
>> Or does the plugin not check this against the one in the revlet?
>>

Best

Klaus

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Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
[hidden email]

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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

Andre Garzia-3
I think the plugin will not load two revlets with the same UUID on the same
instance...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Klaus on-rev <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Andre,
>
> > I don't think it does because my javascript doesn't pass it and it works.
>
> I meant the "embedding" HTML.
> If not, what is the UUID good for?
>
> > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Klaus on-rev <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>> George,
> >>> Create your own html after the revlet is built is the best option. If I
> >>> were
> >>> you, I would not bother changing the html that rev generates, I would
> >>> instead build new htmls from the scratch. I think rev sends a message
> >>> after
> >>> the revlet is built, this could trigger the new html creation. Also, it
> >>> might have flown below your radar but checkout revletobject at
> >>> http://hg.andregarzia.com/revletobject it is easier than working with
> >>> theraw embed tag.
> >>> Cheers
> >>> andre
> >> isn't it important to use at least the UUID in the Rev generated HTML?
> >> Or does the plugin not check this against the one in the revlet?
> >>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> http://www.major-k.de
> [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

Dom-2
Andre Garzia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think the plugin will not load two revlets with the same UUID on the same
> instance...

Interesting point!

One could imagine two revlets talking to each other on the same page...

For instance (its my hobby for now ;-)) a revlet showing a series of
thumbnails, and another revlet showing one bigger image!

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Re: Is it possible to change the revlet embed html?

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by Andre Garzia-3
Andre Garzia wrote:
> I think the plugin will not load two revlets with the same UUID on the same
> instance...

I thought the UUID was an identifier for browsers. The UUID is the same
for all HTML pages that revlets generate.

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HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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