LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

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LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hello,

OS X 10.11.5, LC 8.0, IDE. Same program runs fine on Windows 10

I have a pretty nasty issue, where I am right now a bit clueless, in which
direction I have to search. I have set the dontuseQT of  player "myPlayer"
to false because I am using old QT videos, which can't be played with AVF.

In a *videoPlay* handler I *set* the filename of player "myPlayer" to
tVideoFile, which works fine in all situations and the video is played
afterwords fine.

Now I have a pretty deep structure of handlers, as a kind of a loop with the
modal userdialog and playing a video. The handler with the sheet/modal stack
waits for some user interactions, calls the *videoPlay* handler and calls
again the first handler, so that it starts from beginning. In the
*videoPlay* handler randomly this error occurs, when setting the filename of
the player object.

 

A simplified structure looks like this:

command1:

*modal* stack myDialog

                command2

 

command 2:

                *set* the filename of player -> error

                command1

                *modal*stack myDialog

               

 

I have already tried to set a *wait" with messages before the *set* the
filename, but it still crashes randomly.

As far as I can see, there are two main differences between the handler,
where the issue occurs and where not. 1. The deeper structure of handlers
and 2. The modal stack in between this handler "loop".

 

My feeling is that the engine choks somewhere in the "loop", but with
different handler calls with/without *send* / *dispatch* I would probably
mess up the "loop" structure.

 

Any idea, where to start?

Thanks

Tiemo

 

 

 

 

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Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Dar Scott
I don't think I have a very good understanding of your "loop".  

You seem to have some sort of recursion that will cause your call stack to grow and grow.  it looks as though 1 calls 2 which calls 1 which calls 2 which calls 1 which calls 2 which calls....

At some point anything you do should cause a stack overflow.  This normally would create an error without a crash, but it might be that some operations assume space and will crash.  

If you don't intend the recursion, you might be able to break out the start-from-begining essentials of one command to be called by both commands.  

I'm just guessing here; I don't have a good understanding of what you are doing.  Since this runs fine on W10, I have a feeling that my guess is goofy.  

Dar


> On Jun 2, 2016, at 8:38 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> OS X 10.11.5, LC 8.0, IDE. Same program runs fine on Windows 10
>
> I have a pretty nasty issue, where I am right now a bit clueless, in which
> direction I have to search. I have set the dontuseQT of  player "myPlayer"
> to false because I am using old QT videos, which can't be played with AVF.
>
> In a *videoPlay* handler I *set* the filename of player "myPlayer" to
> tVideoFile, which works fine in all situations and the video is played
> afterwords fine.
>
> Now I have a pretty deep structure of handlers, as a kind of a loop with the
> modal userdialog and playing a video. The handler with the sheet/modal stack
> waits for some user interactions, calls the *videoPlay* handler and calls
> again the first handler, so that it starts from beginning. In the
> *videoPlay* handler randomly this error occurs, when setting the filename of
> the player object.
>
>
>
> A simplified structure looks like this:
>
> command1:
>
> *modal* stack myDialog
>
>                command2
>
>
>
> command 2:
>
>                *set* the filename of player -> error
>
>                command1
>
>                *modal*stack myDialog
>
>
>
>
>
> I have already tried to set a *wait" with messages before the *set* the
> filename, but it still crashes randomly.
>
> As far as I can see, there are two main differences between the handler,
> where the issue occurs and where not. 1. The deeper structure of handlers
> and 2. The modal stack in between this handler "loop".
>
>
>
> My feeling is that the engine choks somewhere in the "loop", but with
> different handler calls with/without *send* / *dispatch* I would probably
> mess up the "loop" structure.
>
>
>
> Any idea, where to start?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tiemo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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AW: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hi Dar,

thank you for your notions.
I think it wasn't a real recursion, because of the user interaction in
between, but you pointed me into the right direction.
I now have changed one call of a command with a *send* in 1 milliseconds
instead of a direct call and now the error is gone. Though I don't
understand it totally what was going on, it seems to me that this "handler
loop" chocked itself somehow and got problems with the memory, like you
pointed out.
You saved my weekend :)
Tiemo


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag
von Dar Scott
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 2. Juni 2016 17:18
An: How to use LiveCode <[hidden email]>
Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

I don't think I have a very good understanding of your "loop".  

You seem to have some sort of recursion that will cause your call stack to
grow and grow.  it looks as though 1 calls 2 which calls 1 which calls 2
which calls 1 which calls 2 which calls....

At some point anything you do should cause a stack overflow.  This normally
would create an error without a crash, but it might be that some operations
assume space and will crash.  

If you don't intend the recursion, you might be able to break out the
start-from-begining essentials of one command to be called by both commands.


I'm just guessing here; I don't have a good understanding of what you are
doing.  Since this runs fine on W10, I have a feeling that my guess is
goofy.  

Dar


> On Jun 2, 2016, at 8:38 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> OS X 10.11.5, LC 8.0, IDE. Same program runs fine on Windows 10
>
> I have a pretty nasty issue, where I am right now a bit clueless, in
> which direction I have to search. I have set the dontuseQT of  player
"myPlayer"

> to false because I am using old QT videos, which can't be played with AVF.
>
> In a *videoPlay* handler I *set* the filename of player "myPlayer" to
> tVideoFile, which works fine in all situations and the video is played
> afterwords fine.
>
> Now I have a pretty deep structure of handlers, as a kind of a loop
> with the modal userdialog and playing a video. The handler with the
> sheet/modal stack waits for some user interactions, calls the
> *videoPlay* handler and calls again the first handler, so that it
> starts from beginning. In the
> *videoPlay* handler randomly this error occurs, when setting the
> filename of the player object.
>
>
>
> A simplified structure looks like this:
>
> command1:
>
> *modal* stack myDialog
>
>                command2
>
>
>
> command 2:
>
>                *set* the filename of player -> error
>
>                command1
>
>                *modal*stack myDialog
>
>
>
>
>
> I have already tried to set a *wait" with messages before the *set*
> the filename, but it still crashes randomly.
>
> As far as I can see, there are two main differences between the
> handler, where the issue occurs and where not. 1. The deeper structure
> of handlers and 2. The modal stack in between this handler "loop".
>
>
>
> My feeling is that the engine choks somewhere in the "loop", but with
> different handler calls with/without *send* / *dispatch* I would
> probably mess up the "loop" structure.
>
>
>
> Any idea, where to start?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tiemo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Dar Scott
I'm glad I was able to (somehow) help you tinker with this.

My style is to use send in many situations and I often create send loops or I build services with callbacks.  To my brain this keeps things simple.  And it is consistent with the event model that LiveCode uses.  

Dar

> On Jun 3, 2016, at 6:57 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Dar,
>
> thank you for your notions.
> I think it wasn't a real recursion, because of the user interaction in
> between, but you pointed me into the right direction.
> I now have changed one call of a command with a *send* in 1 milliseconds
> instead of a direct call and now the error is gone. Though I don't
> understand it totally what was going on, it seems to me that this "handler
> loop" chocked itself somehow and got problems with the memory, like you
> pointed out.
> You saved my weekend :)
> Tiemo
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag
> von Dar Scott
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 2. Juni 2016 17:18
> An: How to use LiveCode <[hidden email]>
> Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X
>
> I don't think I have a very good understanding of your "loop".  
>
> You seem to have some sort of recursion that will cause your call stack to
> grow and grow.  it looks as though 1 calls 2 which calls 1 which calls 2
> which calls 1 which calls 2 which calls....
>
> At some point anything you do should cause a stack overflow.  This normally
> would create an error without a crash, but it might be that some operations
> assume space and will crash.  
>
> If you don't intend the recursion, you might be able to break out the
> start-from-begining essentials of one command to be called by both commands.
>
>
> I'm just guessing here; I don't have a good understanding of what you are
> doing.  Since this runs fine on W10, I have a feeling that my guess is
> goofy.  
>
> Dar
>
>
>> On Jun 2, 2016, at 8:38 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> OS X 10.11.5, LC 8.0, IDE. Same program runs fine on Windows 10
>>
>> I have a pretty nasty issue, where I am right now a bit clueless, in
>> which direction I have to search. I have set the dontuseQT of  player
> "myPlayer"
>> to false because I am using old QT videos, which can't be played with AVF.
>>
>> In a *videoPlay* handler I *set* the filename of player "myPlayer" to
>> tVideoFile, which works fine in all situations and the video is played
>> afterwords fine.
>>
>> Now I have a pretty deep structure of handlers, as a kind of a loop
>> with the modal userdialog and playing a video. The handler with the
>> sheet/modal stack waits for some user interactions, calls the
>> *videoPlay* handler and calls again the first handler, so that it
>> starts from beginning. In the
>> *videoPlay* handler randomly this error occurs, when setting the
>> filename of the player object.
>>
>>
>>
>> A simplified structure looks like this:
>>
>> command1:
>>
>> *modal* stack myDialog
>>
>>               command2
>>
>>
>>
>> command 2:
>>
>>               *set* the filename of player -> error
>>
>>               command1
>>
>>               *modal*stack myDialog
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I have already tried to set a *wait" with messages before the *set*
>> the filename, but it still crashes randomly.
>>
>> As far as I can see, there are two main differences between the
>> handler, where the issue occurs and where not. 1. The deeper structure
>> of handlers and 2. The modal stack in between this handler "loop".
>>
>>
>>
>> My feeling is that the engine choks somewhere in the "loop", but with
>> different handler calls with/without *send* / *dispatch* I would
>> probably mess up the "loop" structure.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any idea, where to start?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tiemo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>


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Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Jim Lambert
In reply to this post by Tiemo Hollmann TB
Just a thought.
Before setting the filename of the player to a movie file, first set its filename to empty. Wait 0 ticks. Then set its filename to the movie path.

Jim Lambert
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Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Monte Goulding-2
If there’s a reliable crash please post a bug report with the crash log and we can symbolicate it and try and resolve it. It would also be interesting to know which version of LC you are using and whether the crash happens with an AVFoundation player (using a different movie of course).

Having said that what worries me the most about this conversation is the use of QuickTime. One of my tasks this sprint is to document and clarify the use of dontUseQT and also remove the IDE preference to load QT automatically as it is too dangerous to leave that preference from old versions of LiveCode active.

Here’s the current status:

 - QT hasn’t been supported by Apple for years
 - QT has security warnings to uninstall from Windows
 - QT can not be supported on Mac 64 bit

It is basically a bomb in your app waiting to go off so we should be encouraging everyone mentioning the use of QuickTime to re-encode unsupported videos as a high priority.

Cheers

Monte
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AW: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hi Monte,

I filed a bug report, but I could reproduce it only in my complex live stack and not in a test stack with a handy recipe.
It is LC 8.0 and yes it is QT. I know about all the QT hassles and have waited for years for a solution from Edinburgh.

My main product includes about 20000 videos, which I have compressed 7 years ago with a Sorenson codec, which is not supported by AVFoundation and on Windows we don't have a LC productive release with the new player yet.

Even if LC 8.1 is released, I can't create just a program update for my customers, because of the non supported codec, I have to supply complete new videos (about 8GB), so I can't make a  only update for my product, actually It has to be a major version upgrade, shipping again on DVD. Even if I will have some day compressed all 20000 videos with a new codec (yes I have batch compressor from Sorenson) I have to develop an upgrade strategy for all my customers. All in all it will probably take me a year from now on, until I got rid of QT.

It is especially annoying for me, that I have a new product, which is shortly before shipping, which I also only could develop depending on QT, because this product depends on the same 20000 videos being installed on the users machines and there was no alternative.

">  - QT can not be supported on Mac 64 bit"
What does this mean exactly? I have an iMac with a Intel Core i5 processor and I thought up to now, it would run as 64 bit. I don't find any system information about 32/64 bit. But QT is running fine on this machine and I haven't had any complains about Mac users up to now. What does this mean? Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?

Thanks
Tiemo





-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Monte Goulding
Gesendet: Samstag, 4. Juni 2016 02:37
An: How to use LiveCode <[hidden email]>
Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

If there’s a reliable crash please post a bug report with the crash log and we can symbolicate it and try and resolve it. It would also be interesting to know which version of LC you are using and whether the crash happens with an AVFoundation player (using a different movie of course).

Having said that what worries me the most about this conversation is the use of QuickTime. One of my tasks this sprint is to document and clarify the use of dontUseQT and also remove the IDE preference to load QT automatically as it is too dangerous to leave that preference from old versions of LiveCode active.

Here’s the current status:

 - QT hasn’t been supported by Apple for years
 - QT has security warnings to uninstall from Windows
 - QT can not be supported on Mac 64 bit

It is basically a bomb in your app waiting to go off so we should be encouraging everyone mentioning the use of QuickTime to re-encode unsupported videos as a high priority.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Thierry Douez
Hi Tiemo,


From Apple docs:

Intel Core Solo 32 bits
Intel Core Duo 32 bits
Intel Core 2 Duo 64 bits
Intel Quad-Core Xeon 64 bits
Dual-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
Quad-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
Core i3 64 bits Core i5 64 bits
Core i7 64 bits

  ( Dernière modification: 18 mars 2015)


">  -Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?


​HTH,

Thierry​



------------------------------------------------
Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
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AW: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hi Thierry,
yes, according to that table I have a 64 bit machine with an intel i5. But Monte pointed out that QT is not supported by 64 bit machines. But it runs on my machine? Why? And I have not had any customer, whre my program with QT would not have run?
Thanks
Tiemo


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Thierry Douez
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 11:44
An: How to use LiveCode <[hidden email]>
Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Hi Tiemo,


From Apple docs:

Intel Core Solo 32 bits
Intel Core Duo 32 bits
Intel Core 2 Duo 64 bits
Intel Quad-Core Xeon 64 bits
Dual-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
Quad-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
Core i3 64 bits Core i5 64 bits
Core i7 64 bits

  ( Dernière modification: 18 mars 2015)


">  -Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?


​HTH,

Thierry​



------------------------------------------------
Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
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Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Phil Jimmieson-2
Hi Tiemo,
if you start Apple's Activity Monitor application (it's in the utilities folder) and choose "all processes" , the information displayed includes whether or not the process is 64 bit or 32 bit (it's the column labelled "kind" - If your rows don't include that column, then right click a column heading or a blank column heading and choose "kind" from the list).


On 6 Jun 2016, at 10:52, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Thierry,
> yes, according to that table I have a 64 bit machine with an intel i5. But Monte pointed out that QT is not supported by 64 bit machines. But it runs on my machine? Why? And I have not had any customer, whre my program with QT would not have run?
> Thanks
> Tiemo
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Thierry Douez
> Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 11:44
> An: How to use LiveCode <[hidden email]>
> Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X
>
> Hi Tiemo,
>
>
> From Apple docs:
>
> Intel Core Solo 32 bits
> Intel Core Duo 32 bits
> Intel Core 2 Duo 64 bits
> Intel Quad-Core Xeon 64 bits
> Dual-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
> Quad-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
> Core i3 64 bits Core i5 64 bits
> Core i7 64 bits
>
>  ( Dernière modification: 18 mars 2015)
>
>
> ">  -Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?
>
>
> ​HTH,
>
> Thierry​
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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--
Phil Jimmieson  [hidden email]  (UK) 0151 795 4236
Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Ashton Building, Ashton Street
Liverpool L69 3BX              http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment.





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AW: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hi Phil,
AHHH! I have a 64 bit machine with OS X 10.11, but my LC program runs under 32 bit. Interesting to know.
What does that QT note not now means? Has the user a choice or option, how his programs will be executed? Are there already machines or systems which don't support the 32 bit mode anymore? Or will they be released soon?
Tiemo

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Phil Jimmieson
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 11:58
An: How to use LiveCode <[hidden email]>
Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Hi Tiemo,
if you start Apple's Activity Monitor application (it's in the utilities folder) and choose "all processes" , the information displayed includes whether or not the process is 64 bit or 32 bit (it's the column labelled "kind" - If your rows don't include that column, then right click a column heading or a blank column heading and choose "kind" from the list).


On 6 Jun 2016, at 10:52, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Thierry,
> yes, according to that table I have a 64 bit machine with an intel i5. But Monte pointed out that QT is not supported by 64 bit machines. But it runs on my machine? Why? And I have not had any customer, whre my program with QT would not have run?
> Thanks
> Tiemo
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:[hidden email]] Im
> Auftrag von Thierry Douez
> Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 11:44
> An: How to use LiveCode <[hidden email]>
> Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on
> OS X
>
> Hi Tiemo,
>
>
> From Apple docs:
>
> Intel Core Solo 32 bits
> Intel Core Duo 32 bits
> Intel Core 2 Duo 64 bits
> Intel Quad-Core Xeon 64 bits
> Dual-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
> Quad-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
> Core i3 64 bits Core i5 64 bits
> Core i7 64 bits
>
>  ( Dernière modification: 18 mars 2015)
>
>
> ">  -Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?
>
>
> ​HTH,
>
> Thierry​
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Fraser Gordon-3
In reply to this post by Tiemo Hollmann TB

On 6 Jun 2016, at 10:08, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I filed a bug report, but I could reproduce it only in my complex live stack and not in a test stack with a handy recipe.
> It is LC 8.0 and yes it is QT. I know about all the QT hassles and have waited for years for a solution from Edinburgh.
>
> My main product includes about 20000 videos, which I have compressed 7 years ago with a Sorenson codec, which is not supported by AVFoundation and on Windows we don't have a LC productive release with the new player yet.
>
> Even if LC 8.1 is released, I can't create just a program update for my customers, because of the non supported codec, I have to supply complete new videos (about 8GB), so I can't make a  only update for my product, actually It has to be a major version upgrade, shipping again on DVD. Even if I will have some day compressed all 20000 videos with a new codec (yes I have batch compressor from Sorenson) I have to develop an upgrade strategy for all my customers. All in all it will probably take me a year from now on, until I got rid of QT.
>
> It is especially annoying for me, that I have a new product, which is shortly before shipping, which I also only could develop depending on QT, because this product depends on the same 20000 videos being installed on the users machines and there was no alternative.
>
> ">  - QT can not be supported on Mac 64 bit"
> What does this mean exactly? I have an iMac with a Intel Core i5 processor and I thought up to now, it would run as 64 bit. I don't find any system information about 32/64 bit. But QT is running fine on this machine and I haven't had any complains about Mac users up to now. What does this mean? Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?

Apple have no longer support QuickTime on Windows and it is deprecated on OSX; it has seen no substantial changes since the release of AVFoundation in OSX 10.7. Additionally, it has never been available to 64-bit applications on any platform. Apple strongly encourage all apps on OSX to use AVFoundation instead of QuickTime.

LiveCode pre-8.0 was a 32-bit only app and wasn’t directly affected by the deprecation of QT. However, since 8.0, we have also offered a 64-bit version, which offers performance improvements and, in future, will allow increased functionality (many interesting frameworks on OSX, like MapKit, are 64-bit only). Basically, 64-bit is now the norm on OSX and 32-bit no longer sees any new features from Apple. By default, the IDE runs in 32-bit mode (it can be switched to 64-bit mode by changing the app’s properties in Finder). Standalones can be built to include 32-bit mode, 64-bit mode or both; if you select 64-bit mode, QuickTime will not be available.

The DirectShow framework that the new player on Windows uses supports user-installed codecs; if your users were to install a Sorenson decoder, they would retain the ability to play your videos without you having to re-encode. As far as I can tell, the decoder is proprietary to Sorenson and is not something LiveCode can supply; you may have access to it as part of your Sorenson compressor, however.

Unfortunately, AVFoundation does not support installing additional codecs and does not support the Sorenson codec. For this reason, we maintain the ability to use QuickTime in 32-bit mode on OSX (even in 8.1) but there is nothing we can do to make it work using AVFoundation or in 64-bit mode. Apple could remove QuickTime entirely in some future OSX. If re-encoding your videos is a major undertaking, it might be better to start now in readiness for when QT is no longer available.

Fraser
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AW: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Tiemo Hollmann TB
Thank you Fraser for your explanations
Tiemo

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag
von Fraser Gordon
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 17:45
An: How to use LiveCode <[hidden email]>
Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X


On 6 Jun 2016, at 10:08, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I filed a bug report, but I could reproduce it only in my complex live
stack and not in a test stack with a handy recipe.
> It is LC 8.0 and yes it is QT. I know about all the QT hassles and have
waited for years for a solution from Edinburgh.
>
> My main product includes about 20000 videos, which I have compressed 7
years ago with a Sorenson codec, which is not supported by AVFoundation and
on Windows we don't have a LC productive release with the new player yet.
>
> Even if LC 8.1 is released, I can't create just a program update for my
customers, because of the non supported codec, I have to supply complete new
videos (about 8GB), so I can't make a  only update for my product, actually
It has to be a major version upgrade, shipping again on DVD. Even if I will
have some day compressed all 20000 videos with a new codec (yes I have batch
compressor from Sorenson) I have to develop an upgrade strategy for all my
customers. All in all it will probably take me a year from now on, until I
got rid of QT.
>
> It is especially annoying for me, that I have a new product, which is
shortly before shipping, which I also only could develop depending on QT,
because this product depends on the same 20000 videos being installed on the
users machines and there was no alternative.
>
> ">  - QT can not be supported on Mac 64 bit"
> What does this mean exactly? I have an iMac with a Intel Core i5 processor
and I thought up to now, it would run as 64 bit. I don't find any system
information about 32/64 bit. But QT is running fine on this machine and I
haven't had any complains about Mac users up to now. What does this mean?
Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?

Apple have no longer support QuickTime on Windows and it is deprecated on
OSX; it has seen no substantial changes since the release of AVFoundation in
OSX 10.7. Additionally, it has never been available to 64-bit applications
on any platform. Apple strongly encourage all apps on OSX to use
AVFoundation instead of QuickTime.

LiveCode pre-8.0 was a 32-bit only app and wasn’t directly affected by the
deprecation of QT. However, since 8.0, we have also offered a 64-bit
version, which offers performance improvements and, in future, will allow
increased functionality (many interesting frameworks on OSX, like MapKit,
are 64-bit only). Basically, 64-bit is now the norm on OSX and 32-bit no
longer sees any new features from Apple. By default, the IDE runs in 32-bit
mode (it can be switched to 64-bit mode by changing the app’s properties in
Finder). Standalones can be built to include 32-bit mode, 64-bit mode or
both; if you select 64-bit mode, QuickTime will not be available.

The DirectShow framework that the new player on Windows uses supports
user-installed codecs; if your users were to install a Sorenson decoder,
they would retain the ability to play your videos without you having to
re-encode. As far as I can tell, the decoder is proprietary to Sorenson and
is not something LiveCode can supply; you may have access to it as part of
your Sorenson compressor, however.

Unfortunately, AVFoundation does not support installing additional codecs
and does not support the Sorenson codec. For this reason, we maintain the
ability to use QuickTime in 32-bit mode on OSX (even in 8.1) but there is
nothing we can do to make it work using AVFoundation or in 64-bit mode.
Apple could remove QuickTime entirely in some future OSX. If re-encoding
your videos is a major undertaking, it might be better to start now in
readiness for when QT is no longer available.

Fraser
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