LC & Mac M1 Chip

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LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!

Thanks,
Marty
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you wish??

Roger


> On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
>
> Thanks,
> Marty
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
if it was working on Mojave and above?

JB


> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you wish??
>
> Roger
>
>
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marty
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
I think so, but others may be more informed.

Roger

> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:29 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
> if it was working on Mojave and above?
>
> JB
>
>
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you wish??
>>
>> Roger
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Marty
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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>
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Good to know!
Thanks for the  info.

JB



> On Dec 30, 2020, at 8:03 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think so, but others may be more informed.
>
> Roger
>
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:29 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
>> if it was working on Mojave and above?
>>
>> JB
>>
>>
>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you wish??
>>>
>>> Roger
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Marty
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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>>
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>
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Rick Harrison via use-livecode
You need to be on macOS Big Sur for the new hardware (I think).

There are bugs in LC vs Big Sur that are only fixed in LC 9.6.2rc1 so
you probably want to rebuild any Standalones using that version of LC


On 12/30/2020 10:29 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote:

> Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
> if it was working on Mojave and above?
>
> JB
>
>
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you wish??
>>
>> Roger
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Marty
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
I thought the Mac M1 Chip has Rosetta or something
like that allowing most 64 bit programs to still  run
so I was thinking any 64 bit version of LC would still
work.

JB


> On Dec 31, 2020, at 5:15 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> You need to be on macOS Big Sur for the new hardware (I think).
>
> There are bugs in LC vs Big Sur that are only fixed in LC 9.6.2rc1 so you probably want to rebuild any Standalones using that version of LC
>
>
>> On 12/30/2020 10:29 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote:
>> Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
>> if it was working on Mojave and above?
>>
>> JB
>>
>>
>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you wish??
>>>
>>> Roger
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Marty
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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>
>
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
On 12/31/2020 8:22 AM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote:
> I thought the Mac M1 Chip has Rosetta or something
> like that allowing most 64 bit programs to still  run
> so I was thinking any 64 bit version of LC would still
> work.

You can search the Livecode Quality center for Big Sur bugs. As I recall
the 3 main ones were:

1) A bug with custom window shapes (not an issue if you do not use any
custom window shapes)
2) A bug with the highlights on tabbed buttons (not an issue if you do
not use tabbed buttons - also there was a script work-around available)
3) An issue with dialogs displayed "as sheet"

These bugs are resent under Big Sur (regardless of whether you are on
the M1 chip or Intel) in LC 9.6.1 and are fixed in 9.6.2rc1

Again, search the https://quality.livecode.com/ for "big sur" for details

>
> JB
>
>
>> On Dec 31, 2020, at 5:15 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> You need to be on macOS Big Sur for the new hardware (I think).
>>
>> There are bugs in LC vs Big Sur that are only fixed in LC 9.6.2rc1 so you probably want to rebuild any Standalones using that version of LC
>>
>>
>>> On 12/30/2020 10:29 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
>>> if it was working on Mojave and above?
>>>
>>> JB
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you wish??
>>>>
>>>> Roger
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Marty
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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>>> _______________________________________________
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Rick Harrison via use-livecode
I figured it was good, but thanks for letting us know.

Marty

>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you wish??
>>>
>>> Roger


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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Rick Harrison via use-livecode
I know the mothership does not like to estimate release dates, but does
anyone have a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out? And more
importantly, whether it will come with 'official' support for the M1
hardware or at least a fix for this apparent M1 specific bug:
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23013

We're getting a certain amount of pressure for our primary app to
support the Big Sur and the new hardware. LC9.6.2rc1 address our main
Big Sur issues (not that there were many), but the dashes in menus on M1
(#23013) concerns me as we have several customer who have said they are
upgrading to M1 laptops.



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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode

Paul:

 > we have several customer who have said
 > they are upgrading to M1 laptops

Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be
popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.

(Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on
hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too,
so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet
with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)

I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding
edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly
good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been pushed
into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new OS to
support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue to
serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.

 > a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?

Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working
on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing firm
dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since Apple's biz
model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense would be good.
Especially since third-party addons and widgets also have to keep up
with our ecosystem.

(Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play; I've
seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final, because
glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps often -
introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a stable to
be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific features in an app,
there are times when the RC is more reliable. Nevertheless I really hate
to publish anything with an RC; only when forced to do so.)

BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in
case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Hello all,

Just a clarification - the bug about dashes in menus in standalones on Big
Sur is:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23009

and not https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23013

BTW, could someone that has a M1 Mac confirm that in the LC 9.6.2 RC-1 IDE
there are no dashes in front of the menus - in other words that this bug is
fixed:
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955

Thank you!

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 01:07, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Paul:
>
>  > we have several customer who have said
>  > they are upgrading to M1 laptops
>
> Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be
> popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.
>
> (Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on
> hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too,
> so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet
> with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)
>
> I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding
> edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly
> good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been pushed
> into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new OS to
> support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue to
> serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.
>
>  > a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?
>
> Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working
> on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing firm
> dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since Apple's biz
> model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense would be good.
> Especially since third-party addons and widgets also have to keep up
> with our ecosystem.
>
> (Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play; I've
> seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final, because
> glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps often -
> introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a stable to
> be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific features in an app,
> there are times when the RC is more reliable. Nevertheless I really hate
> to publish anything with an RC; only when forced to do so.)
>
> BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in
> case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Hi Panos,

Just updated https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955 with a
screenshot from 9.6.2-rc-1 running on my M1 machine.

I can't reproduce the bug, I guess it is fixed.

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 10:35, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Just a clarification - the bug about dashes in menus in standalones on Big
> Sur is:
>
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23009
>
> and not https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23013
>
> BTW, could someone that has a M1 Mac confirm that in the LC 9.6.2 RC-1 IDE
> there are no dashes in front of the menus - in other words that this bug is
> fixed:
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955
>
> Thank you!
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
>
> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 01:07, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Paul:
> >
> >  > we have several customer who have said
> >  > they are upgrading to M1 laptops
> >
> > Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be
> > popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.
> >
> > (Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on
> > hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too,
> > so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet
> > with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)
> >
> > I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding
> > edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly
> > good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been pushed
> > into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new OS to
> > support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue to
> > serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.
> >
> >  > a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?
> >
> > Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working
> > on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing firm
> > dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since Apple's biz
> > model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense would be good.
> > Especially since third-party addons and widgets also have to keep up
> > with our ecosystem.
> >
> > (Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play; I've
> > seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final, because
> > glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps often -
> > introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a stable to
> > be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific features in an app,
> > there are times when the RC is more reliable. Nevertheless I really hate
> > to publish anything with an RC; only when forced to do so.)
> >
> > BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in
> > case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Curry Kenworthy
> >
> > Custom Software Development
> > "Better Methods, Better Results"
> > LiveCode Training and Consulting
> > http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>


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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Andre and Panos,

Thank you both. That given us some confidence we can release under LC
9.6.2rc1 so that customers can go ahead with their M! Big Sur systems as
they want to.



On 1/8/2021 6:46 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> Just updated https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955 with a
> screenshot from 9.6.2-rc-1 running on my M1 machine.
>
> I can't reproduce the bug, I guess it is fixed.
>
> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 10:35, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Just a clarification - the bug about dashes in menus in standalones on Big
>> Sur is:
>>
>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23009
>>
>> and not https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23013
>>
>> BTW, could someone that has a M1 Mac confirm that in the LC 9.6.2 RC-1 IDE
>> there are no dashes in front of the menus - in other words that this bug is
>> fixed:
>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Panos
>> --
>>
>> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 01:07, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Paul:
>>>
>>>   > we have several customer who have said
>>>   > they are upgrading to M1 laptops
>>>
>>> Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be
>>> popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.
>>>
>>> (Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on
>>> hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too,
>>> so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet
>>> with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)
>>>
>>> I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding
>>> edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly
>>> good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been pushed
>>> into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new OS to
>>> support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue to
>>> serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.
>>>
>>>   > a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?
>>>
>>> Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working
>>> on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing firm
>>> dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since Apple's biz
>>> model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense would be good.
>>> Especially since third-party addons and widgets also have to keep up
>>> with our ecosystem.
>>>
>>> (Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play; I've
>>> seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final, because
>>> glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps often -
>>> introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a stable to
>>> be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific features in an app,
>>> there are times when the RC is more reliable. Nevertheless I really hate
>>> to publish anything with an RC; only when forced to do so.)
>>>
>>> BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in
>>> case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Curry Kenworthy
>>>
>>> Custom Software Development
>>> "Better Methods, Better Results"
>>> LiveCode Training and Consulting
>>> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>


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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Your back stories made me fire up a G5 iMac I have here running macOS 10.5
and download the latest LiveCode to work on it . . . .

Love and lunacy, Richmond.

On 8.01.21 1:06, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:

>
> Paul:
>
> > we have several customer who have said
> > they are upgrading to M1 laptops
>
> Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be
> popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.
>
> (Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on
> hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too,
> so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet
> with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)
>
> I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding
> edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly
> good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been
> pushed into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new
> OS to support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue
> to serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.
>
> > a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?
>
> Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working
> on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing
> firm dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since
> Apple's biz model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense
> would be good. Especially since third-party addons and widgets also
> have to keep up with our ecosystem.
>
> (Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play;
> I've seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final,
> because glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps
> often - introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a
> stable to be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific
> features in an app, there are times when the RC is more reliable.
> Nevertheless I really hate to publish anything with an RC; only when
> forced to do so.)
>
> BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in
> case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Rick Harrison via use-livecode

Me:

 > I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year

Naturally, right after I post this, Apple makes headlines (again) for
doing something arbitrary and rather dim.

So an ethical and professional disclaimer:

I don't support self-contradictory and illogical policy,
any more than self-contradictory and illogical UI.

Shallow thinkers (and toddlers of all ages) focus mainly on external
agreement. It requires some mental development to realize a need for
intellectual consistency and indeed honesty.

I like the way this principle is clear in the realm of coding. If true
is also false, logic falls apart. Every logical branch in a script
evaluates to true or false. True and false must be reliable, not
arbitrary and capricious. Otherwise code would be unpredictable.

(That's why people who rationalize have trouble writing good code: they
are speaking a second language, and have trained themselves to imitate
logic rather than following it! Mental habits matter.)

Apple's biz practices make it difficult to avoid finally replacing my
2012 Mac, but as most people here probably know, I did not intend my
statement as an endorsement. Glad Richmond can still work on the G5! :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Otherwise code uses fuzzy logic!  LOL

Rick

> On Jan 9, 2021, at 5:34 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Otherwise code would be unpredictable.

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Hmm: Yes, I do work occasionally on a couple of G5 iMac I have lying
around, and, more often, a G4 Mac Mini
(a lovely machine I can shove in my bag and run back and forth between
home and work): BUT, to tell the  truth,
at the moment my main work is spread between a 2018 Mac Mini (the last
INTEL model) running macOS 11.2 and an ASUS
laptop running Xubuntu 20.10.

Apple, like Microsoft, is a profoundly undemocratic institution. This
should not matter if the 'great dictator' is
truly 'great' (and even the sainted Steve Jobs has feet of clay); but
those types of dictators only crop up in places
like Plato's Laws and fairy stories.

When I read Plato's Laws I got an ENTIRELY different picture from all
those 'leisurely chats' between Socrates
and his chums.

A company with no checks and balances, and that doesn't listen to its
customers, is going to have more than the
odd wonky moment.

Currently the 'great dictator' of my company (me) is listening to the
Bulgarian Ministry of Education, the parents
of children who attend my language school, 3 trustworthy doctors, my
assistant, and so on: as not sure when
to stop delivering online classes and restart in the physical school, or
whether to provide a 'mixed service' with
both online and 'offline' classes (also known as logistical hell).
Obviously if I don't listen AND act on what I hear
in a way that keeps the majority happy, I'm shafted.

All I can say, with a smile on my lips, is "Thank God" I only have 50
kids to worry about.

Richmond.

On 10.01.21 0:34, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:

>
> Me:
>
> > I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year
>
> Naturally, right after I post this, Apple makes headlines (again) for
> doing something arbitrary and rather dim.
>
> So an ethical and professional disclaimer:
>
> I don't support self-contradictory and illogical policy,
> any more than self-contradictory and illogical UI.
>
> Shallow thinkers (and toddlers of all ages) focus mainly on external
> agreement. It requires some mental development to realize a need for
> intellectual consistency and indeed honesty.
>
> I like the way this principle is clear in the realm of coding. If true
> is also false, logic falls apart. Every logical branch in a script
> evaluates to true or false. True and false must be reliable, not
> arbitrary and capricious. Otherwise code would be unpredictable.
>
> (That's why people who rationalize have trouble writing good code:
> they are speaking a second language, and have trained themselves to
> imitate logic rather than following it! Mental habits matter.)
>
> Apple's biz practices make it difficult to avoid finally replacing my
> 2012 Mac, but as most people here probably know, I did not intend my
> statement as an endorsement. Glad Richmond can still work on the G5! :)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Rick Harrison via use-livecode
One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to buy a
reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China is still
present. Seems nothing good enough is yet done to prevent that.


Op 9-1-2021 om 23:34 schreef Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode:

>
> Me:
>
> > I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year
>
> Naturally, right after I post this, Apple makes headlines (again) for
> doing something arbitrary and rather dim.
>
> So an ethical and professional disclaimer:
>
> I don't support self-contradictory and illogical policy,
> any more than self-contradictory and illogical UI.
>
> Shallow thinkers (and toddlers of all ages) focus mainly on external
> agreement. It requires some mental development to realize a need for
> intellectual consistency and indeed honesty.
>
> I like the way this principle is clear in the realm of coding. If true
> is also false, logic falls apart. Every logical branch in a script
> evaluates to true or false. True and false must be reliable, not
> arbitrary and capricious. Otherwise code would be unpredictable.
>
> (That's why people who rationalize have trouble writing good code:
> they are speaking a second language, and have trained themselves to
> imitate logic rather than following it! Mental habits matter.)
>
> Apple's biz practices make it difficult to avoid finally replacing my
> 2012 Mac, but as most people here probably know, I did not intend my
> statement as an endorsement. Glad Richmond can still work on the G5! :)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

Rick Harrison via use-livecode

JeeJeeStudio:

 > One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to
 > buy a reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China
 > is still present.

I'm glad you went there! Thank you. I do ask myself, and the answer is
clear. Whether it's a Mac, or any other product. Same deal.

Not to mention forced organ harvesting (often while conscious), torture,
gulags, repression (now becoming fashionable), ethnic/racial crackdowns,
thought/political/religious crackdowns, IP theft, debt traps,
poison/health risks, safety flaws, hacking and theft, credible plan for
world domination, worker hazards and living/working conditions, and the
list could go on for many pages.

I'm typing this on a PC laptop, with a fan blowing on my face, at a
desk, sitting on a wheelchair, under a light bulb, all of which probably
have the same origin. Consumer choices are limited, but it does bother
me. There's a real need for products produced in a context where human
rights are respected.

(I consider that human decency, not politics. And for the record, I'm
completely off cheese at the moment; developed allergic reaction to it.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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