Linux software suggestions

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Linux software suggestions

AndyP
I'm about to turn a Dell 5150 which is sitting collecting dust into my very first Linux based machine!

This will be an open source software only machine.

I've always been Windows based so have decided to go for Mint with Cinnamon distro as it looks like it will be easier for me to transition too.

Apart from LiveCode Community what others Open source software would those of you who are Linux based recommend?

E.g. best email client, office suite, ftp client, graphics prog, browser, etc..etc..

Also how is LiveCode doing with 64bit Linux, any problems or parity issues?

Looking forward to your suggestions :-)
Andy Piddock

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode

Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode

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Re: Linux software suggestions

Richmond Mathewson-2
On 09/20/2015 11:52 AM, AndyP wrote:
> I'm about to turn a Dell 5150 which is sitting collecting dust into my very
> first Linux based machine!
>
> This will be an open source software only machine.
>
> I've always been Windows based so have decided to go for Mint with Cinnamon
> distro as it looks like it will be easier for me to transition too.

Well, personally I prefer Xubuntu as I have had a few major upsets with
Cinnamon.
>
> Apart from LiveCode Community what others Open source software would those
> of you who are Linux based recommend?
>
> E.g. best email client, office suite, ftp client, graphics prog, browser,
> etc..etc..

1.  Thunderbird e-mail client: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/

2.  LibreOffice 5: https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/

3.  I only use an ftp client on an ancient Macintosh: sorry.

4.  GIMP for bitmap: http://www.gimp.org/

      Inkscape for vectors:  https://inkscape.org/en/

5.  Firefox browser.

6.  VLC for all video files.

7.  Transmission for torrents.

8.  Ubuntu Tweak for cleaning out the basement (works on all Debian
deriv. distros): http://ubuntu-tweak.com/

9.  Simple Scan for . . . wait for it . . . scanning.
>
> Also how is LiveCode doing with 64bit Linux, any problems or parity issues?
>
> Looking forward to your suggestions :-)
>
>

Have a lovely time!

Richmond.


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Re: Linux software suggestions

Peter TB Brett
In reply to this post by AndyP
Hi Andy,

I very strongly recommend running 64-bit LiveCode on Linux. Because of the x86-64 architecture's larger number of registers (among other things), we've noticed a speed increase of up to 20% with x86-64 LiveCode, relative to x86 LiveCode running on the same hardware and Linux kernel.

Peter

On 20 September 2015 09:52:29 BST, AndyP <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I'm about to turn a Dell 5150 which is sitting collecting dust into my
>very
>first Linux based machine!
>
>This will be an open source software only machine.
>
>I've always been Windows based so have decided to go for Mint with
>Cinnamon
>distro as it looks like it will be easier for me to transition too.
>
>Apart from LiveCode Community what others Open source software would
>those
>of you who are Linux based recommend?
>
>E.g. best email client, office suite, ftp client, graphics prog,
>browser,
>etc..etc..
>
>Also how is LiveCode doing with 64bit Linux, any problems or parity
>issues?
>
>Looking forward to your suggestions :-)
>
>
>
>
>-----
>Andy Piddock
>
>
>My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
>
>Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now:
>Get Copy
>
>
>Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk 
>
>PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour
>picker / finder.
>http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Linux-software-suggestions-tp4696462.html
>Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: Linux software suggestions

mwieder
In reply to this post by AndyP
On 09/20/2015 01:52 AM, AndyP wrote:

I haven't run into problems with linux Mint 17 / cinnamon, but otherwise
I agree with Richmond's recommendations. And Peter's to go with a 64-bit
distro (whichever one you choose). You'll probably find that most of the
software Richmond recommends is already installed, but if not, apt-get
or the gui version (name escapes me at the moment) are quite easy to use
to get new software and keep it up to date.

I do use FileZilla for ftp transfers, as it helps cut down on the number
of things I need to keep in my head. I'd also recommend either the Atom
text editor or Sublime Text (or both) as code editors. And I find
Wireshark and VirtualBox absolutely indispensible, but I realize that
not everyone needs either one.

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]

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Re: Linux software suggestions

Peter Alcibiades
In reply to this post by AndyP
In desktops Mate for something familiar, and its what gnome used to be before they wrecked it, but fluxbox is the best if you want it very fast, functional and surprisingly well featured.  Gnome and KDE seem to be competing which can make the most unusable desktop, so neither one of them.  

I have given up on tlling window managers but i3 is said to be the best if you like them.  

Calibre for ebooks with the apprenticealf plugins.  fbreader as a reader.

mupdf to read pdfs, pdfshuffler to cut paste and split them.  Evince is ok but slower than mupdf, but with more features.

audacity for audio, but if you want to clip cut concatenate or change format, ffmpeg from the terminal

grep to find files by content

mpyst for youtube playing and downloads

for email, claws.  Small, fast, stable.  Kmail was great but they trashed it.  Evolution is OK but bloated.  The problem with thunderbird is its file formats (see mork in wikipedia).  Exporting from evolution or kmail is not much fun either.

finding duplicates:  fslint

Yes, libreoffice.  Yes to vlc also.

Learn how to use pipes in the terminal.  Generally to get the extra from Linux you need to use the terminal.  You can do it all in the gui packages but you miss two thirds of what is there for the looking.  It will look like Windows, and that's fine as far as it goes, but there is far more.

spacefm for a file manager

cherrytree for notes, its what kjots used to be before they wrecked it.

People start in all kinds of distros, but Debian is where you will end up if you stick with it.

Awk.  I guess its primitive Perl, but it works wonderfully if you need to hack text around, which don't we all at some point.  Sed has its points as well.

Peter
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Re: Linux software suggestions

Peter Alcibiades
In reply to this post by AndyP
Text editor:  Geany, or from the terminal nano.
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Re: Linux software suggestions

Peter TB Brett
On 2015-09-20 19:03, Peter Alcibiades wrote:
> Text editor:  Geany, or from the terminal nano.
>

Nononono. Emacs.

                         Peter

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LiveCode on reddit! <https://reddit.com/r/livecode>

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Re: Linux software suggestions

AndyP
Thanks for all the suggestions and advise.

I've got a sneaking suspicion that the processor in the oldie 5150 maybe 32 bit only as it was in a former life an XP workhorse which was unable to be upgraded to Win 7!!!

I will be installing Mint tomorrow and will let you know how I get on.
Andy Piddock

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode

Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode

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Re: Linux software suggestions

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by AndyP
AndyP wrote:

> I'm about to turn a Dell 5150 which is sitting collecting dust into my very
> first Linux based machine!
>
> This will be an open source software only machine.
>
> I've always been Windows based so have decided to go for Mint with Cinnamon
> distro as it looks like it will be easier for me to transition too.
>
> Apart from LiveCode Community what others Open source software would those
> of you who are Linux based recommend?

I use Ubuntu, initially because it's what my customers were using when
they were asking for a Linux version of one of my apps.  Over time I've
come to appreciate that it's the most popular desktop distro, so as a
developer I find that comforting.   But over time I've met many of the
people who make it, so using it feels like something made by friends,
like having a neighbor bring over a loaf of fresh-baked bread.

But that's the beauty of Linux:  it's all made my friends, people who
are for the most part easily reachable, and by the nature of their work
predisposed to sharing. And the work is done within project structures
where you can lend a hand if you're so inclined, in just about any way
that matches your skill set, not just code but also design, docs, and
more - just as we're beginning to do in the LiveCode community.

Mint is also a great distro, and Cinnamon gets consistently good
reviews.  Hard to go wrong there.  That's another great thing about
Linux:  so many different flavors, with so many different options for
setting it up, that everyone gets exactly what they want.


> E.g. best email client, office suite, ftp client, graphics prog, browser,
> etc..etc..

For email I switched to Thunderbird a decade ago, back when my work was
done almost exclusively on Mac.  It's available for Windows and Linux
too, and uses the same standards-based mbox format on all three
platforms so you can move your email from OS to OS easily if you need to.

Office suite:  LibreOffics, hands down.  It's a fork of Open Office
(after Ellison bought Sun and starting creeping people out with this
FOSS management), and today has far more contributors than Open Office.
  LibreOffice is a great package, pre-installed with Ubuntu and probably
with Mint as well.  And you're in good company:  the most recent
large-scale convert to LibreOffice is the Italian Ministry of Defense,
who just moved 150,000 desktops from Microsoft Office to LibreOffice:
<http://www.zdnet.com/article/italian-ministry-of-defense-moves-to-libreoffice/>

FTP: FileZilla.  Annoying UI in some respects, but also configurable to
become much more useful and cleaner than its default layout.

Graphics:  GIMP is a truly great tool, more than capable of handling the
needs of probably 90% of Photoshop users if only they'd earnestly give
it a try.

A relative newcomer to Linux graphics is Krita - gorgeous UI, probably
closer to Painter in its focus than to Photoshop, well worth exploring.

For vector graphics try Inkscape.  I've met the lead dev at the SoCal
Linux Expo, a hard-working yet humble man who's put some wonderful
capabilities into the package, with a strong following keeping it
growing nicely.  Like GIMP it's also available for OS X and Windows, so
you can use one format on all platforms.

Browsers: Only IE and Safari are platform-specific.  Chrome, Firefox,
Opera, Dolphin and others are multi-platform.  Use whatever you enjoy.
I split my time between Chrome and Firefox myself.

Text Editing:  Lately I've gone back to Geany, but my needs are modest
enough that I'm considering pulling a half-baked text editor I started
in LiveCode out of the archives to see if I can find time to flesh that
out into a usable state as well (it'd be nice to have one editor for LC
desktop, LC Server, JavaScript, HTML, bash, and more, all in one tidy
simple package that works exactly as I want it to).  But there are many
available, and no matter which GUI one you use there's good reason to
explore at least Nano for editing files on remote servers, or learning
vim or emacs if you have time.  But don't be ashamed of using the humble
Nano, it's a decent command-line editor with a close-to-zero learning curve.


> Also how is LiveCode doing with 64bit Linux, any problems or parity issues?

Yes, 64-bit for all the reasons others have noted here.


Please keep us posted on how your Linux explorations go.  Part of the
reason I got started with Linux was to shake the cobwebs out of my head
after spending too many decades with just one OS, a chance to think
really different.  I hope you find your Linux adventure as rewarding.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Linux software suggestions

Peter Alcibiades
In reply to this post by AndyP
After saying to make the acquaintance of the command line one should probably offer some reading.

The short version is Linux Phrasebook by Scott Granneman.  The long form reference version is the O'Reilly Linux in a Nutshell.

Anything by Carla Schroder is worth reading.

Here's an example of why you'd bother.  You have an audio track, compressed in some lossy way, and want to extract a few sections and put them together in one new track.

You can do it with point and click in Audacity of course.  But... Audacity will import it into its own format and you'll then export it in a playable format.  So you will recode, and this will affect quality.  What you want to do is simply cut out and join without any recoding.  You won't readily find a way of doing that in Audacity.  There may be one, but I haven't found it.  But in the command line?

You just locate the start and end points and cut them out into temp files, then concatenate the temp files into one new file in the same coding using ffmpeg.  If you want to do this regularly you write a small script to take source, time and file inputs and do the rest automagically.

The command line is full of this stuff - it lets you get at all the options that the gui layer on top of it doesn't provide for.  This is really the difference between Windows and Linux (or Mac also since its Unix based).  In Linux the gui on utility apps is often just passing your point and clicks in the form of commands into the shell.  But by the nature of gui interfaces this only lets you get at a very small percentage of what the shell can actually do.

Its not that you have to use the shell.  You don't, any more than you do in Windows.  But its there.  Its like in Windows they have extracted the wheat germ and said you don't need this or want it, and then fed it to the pigs, and when you realise what is not there, your morning toast seems a bit tasteless.
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Re: Linux software suggestions

AndyP
Thanks for the continuing advice.

So I now have Linux Mint (64bit) and Windows 10 systems running side by side and I have to say I'm rather enjoying the Linux experience so far.

Installation fro an ISO Image DVD went fast and very well, no problems at all in fact. All hardware was properly detected and identified. Network connected first time, I've nether had that with a Windows install.

Software selected.

Pre Installed

Email: Thunderbird - great.
Browser: Firefox - always been good.
FTP: FileZilla - have used this on Windows for years
Office:  LibreOffice - fantastic what a revelation.
Graphics - Gimp ... lots to learn here.
Video: VLC Media player.

Post Installed Software

File Sharing/Backup: DropBox. - essential.
Audio: Audacity.
Photo / Raw editing - DarkTable - Linux only, I've been wanting to play with this for ages.
Editor: still reviewing.

LiveCode Community 8.0 DP4 - This was my first experience of installing without using the package manager or via the terminal apt install and didn't go so smoothly. It took two attempts after working out that the installer had to be given execution rights. Once installed I couldn't find it until Linux was rebooted.... is this normal?

LC has crashed or frozen quite a few times, generally when using Widgets or the Widgets Manager.

LC starts up a lot faster (about 2 seconds)wow! than in Windows and apart from the freezing issues is very responsive. I've created several standalones that I have been using on Windows and they are all working as expected (kudos to the LiveCode team) and actually look better on Linux.

So so far so good, getting into the power of the terminal commands.
Will I drop Windows ... only time will tell.. but I've been working more with Linux than Windows today, so the omens are good :-)
Andy Piddock

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode

Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode

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Re: Linux software suggestions

Richard Gaskin
AndyP wrote:

 > Post Installed Software
 >
 > File Sharing/Backup: DropBox. - essential.

If you have a VPS or dedicated server, down the road you can sharpen
your admin skills with the flexible and liberating OwnCloud - good
people, great project:
<https://owncloud.org/>


 > LiveCode Community 8.0 DP4 - This was my first experience of
 > installing without using the package manager or via the terminal
 > apt install and didn't go so smoothly. It took two attempts after
 > working out that the installer had to be given execution rights.
 > Once installed I couldn't find it until Linux was rebooted....
 > is this normal?
 >
 > LC has crashed or frozen quite a few times, generally when using
 > Widgets or the Widgets Manager.
 >
 > LC starts up a lot faster (about 2 seconds)wow! than in Windows
 > and apart from the freezing issues is very responsive. I've created
 > several standalones that I have been using on Windows and they are
 > all working as expected (kudos to the LiveCode team) and actually
 > look better on Linux.

There are some good things about LiveCode's Linux engine, and some bad
things.

For the work I do Linux has proven itself to be a great experience, with
an efficiency, security, and usability at least on par with any other OS
I've used.

Unfortunately, the weakest part of my Linux experience is LiveCode.
Because it's unique I still use it, but of all the Linux software I use
it's the least polished and most error-prone.

Fraser, Peter and others on the team have been making big strides with
LiveCode on Linux, so while it still has a way to go before I can deploy
professional-looking apps to that platform I can generally develop on
Ubuntu well enough for deployment to Mac, Windows, and Android for now.
  And hopefully as things continue to improve I'll be able to share
LiveCode with my Linux friends too soon enough.

I would encourage you to feel free to report back here periodically
about your Linux experience, esp. with regard to LiveCode.  Some of us
may know workarounds for things you might encounter, and having a fresh
set of eyes on it is helpful for all of us in more clearly seeing both
the good and the bad.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
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Re: Linux software suggestions

Warren Samples
In reply to this post by AndyP
On 09/22/2015 03:02 PM, AndyP wrote:
> Photo / Raw editing - DarkTable - Linux only, I've been wanting to play with
> this for ages.


There is also RawTherapee (this is cross platform but not well known to
Win/Mac users because they don't "sell" it) http://www.rawtherapee.com/

LightZone is available for Linux. http://lightzoneproject.org/

I don't know what the current state of color management is under Mint,
but there are projects which have brought color management to Linux and
it's worth researching.

dipcalGUI offers monitor calibration http://dispcalgui.hoech.net/

Have fun!

Warren

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Re: Linux software suggestions

mwieder
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
On 09/22/2015 01:26 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Unfortunately, the weakest part of my Linux experience is LiveCode.
> Because it's unique I still use it, but of all the Linux software I use
> it's the least polished and most error-prone.

LC 6.7.7 is so far the most stable on linux. Unfortunately it's soon to
be end-of-lifed, so we'll be stuck with the 8 series. But I have faith
that someday the team will stop adding new "features" and start making
things work again.

--
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  [hidden email]

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Re: Linux software suggestions

mwieder
In reply to this post by AndyP
On 09/22/2015 01:02 PM, AndyP wrote:

> LiveCode Community 8.0 DP4 - This was my first experience of installing
> without using the package manager or via the terminal apt install and didn't
> go so smoothly. It took two attempts after working out that the installer
> had to be given execution rights. Once installed I couldn't find it until
> Linux was rebooted.... is this normal?

The installer permissions, unfortunately, yes. It's not hard to create a
bz2 file or a zip file or a deb file or an rpm file or any other way of
making an installer file that will preserve permissions, but somehow it
hasn't been a priority. Just get used to the fact that every time you
download a new version you have to set permissions.

I haven't had the need to reboot problem. LC always shows up in the
Programming menu right away. The icon isn't always present right away,
but that's a different matter.

> LC has crashed or frozen quite a few times, generally when using Widgets or
> the Widgets Manager.

Or working with the dictionary. Or trying to use the browser. Or trying
to use the backdrop. Or loading some third-party plugins. Or...

Here's a hint for the next time it freezes... in a terminal window type

ps ax | grep livecode

that will show you the process id for the running IDE. Take that process
id (the first number in the line) and type

kill -9 xxxx

where xxxx is the process id.

If it really gets hung up to the point where you can't even use the
terminal window (this happens to me quite frequently with LC8),

alt-control-F6 will give you a barebones login screen. After logging in,
do the 'ps ax' thing above. Then type alt-control-F8 to return to your
desktop.

------------------------

Oh... one more thing... the uninstaller doesn't work on linux any more.
The last one that worked is for version 6.5.2. So install that version
as well. When you want to uninstall a more recent version (one of the
developer previews, for example), copy the uninstaller from 6.5.2 into
the directory of the version you want to uninstall and run it from there.

(assuming you installed for all users) - watch the linewraps:

sudo cp /opt/runrev/livecode-6.5.2/.setup.x86
/opt/runrev/livecodecommunity-8.0.0-dp-4 (x86_64)
cd /opt/runrev/livecodecommunity-8.0.0-dp-4 (x86_64)
sudo ./.setup.x86 uninstall

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]

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Re: Linux software suggestions

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by mwieder
Mark Wieder wrote:
 > On 09/22/2015 01:26 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >
 >> Unfortunately, the weakest part of my Linux experience is LiveCode.
 >> Because it's unique I still use it, but of all the Linux software I
 >> use it's the least polished and most error-prone.
 >
 > LC 6.7.7 is so far the most stable on linux.

Even v6.7 has its issues.  For example, I haven't been able to use LC to
deliver presentations at conferences for many versions, at least 6.4 but
maybe earlier, as fullScreen has had a wide range of issues - here's one
of the outstanding ones:
<http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14640>

I've felt a big awkward at UbuCon presenting LC 7 but having to run my
presentations in a much older version because it's not possible to
fullscreen in the latest build.  Fortunately no one noticed the careful
switcheroo between my presentation and my demo; it would have been more
awkward to have to explain why I keep so many versions of LC on my drive.


 > Unfortunately it's soon to be end-of-lifed, so we'll be stuck with
 > the 8 series. But I have faith that someday the team will stop adding
 > new "features" and start making things work again.

I know Fraser's been working on the clipboard issues on Linux, so
hopefully in a new build soon I'll be able to copy code examples and
paste them directly into the forums or an email to this list without
having to first paste them into Gedit, then copy again, and then paste
where I want it to go.

And they're aware of most of the others I've reported, some of which
have seen some activity beyond "Confirmed", so fingers crossed for 7.2....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: Linux software suggestions

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by mwieder
Mark Wieder wrote:
> Oh... one more thing... the uninstaller doesn't work on linux any more.
> The last one that worked is for version 6.5.2.

Do you have the bug report number for that?

I didn't know it ever worked.  Kinda comforting to know it's just a
regression, more hopeful that it can be remedied quickly.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
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Re: Linux software suggestions

mwieder
On 09/22/2015 09:41 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Mark Wieder wrote:
>> Oh... one more thing... the uninstaller doesn't work on linux any more.
>> The last one that worked is for version 6.5.2.
>
> Do you have the bug report number for that?

http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15707

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Re: Linux software suggestions

mwieder
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
On 09/22/2015 09:38 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I know Fraser's been working on the clipboard issues on Linux, so
> hopefully in a new build soon I'll be able to copy code examples and
> paste them directly into the forums or an email to this list without
> having to first paste them into Gedit, then copy again, and then paste
> where I want it to go.

Yeah, that's a major pita.

>
> And they're aware of most of the others I've reported, some of which
> have seen some activity beyond "Confirmed", so fingers crossed for 7.2....

Hanson's having trouble replicating my crashing bug
http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15931
so if anyone can get this to happen, please add comments to the report.

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