Mac->Win revisited

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Mac->Win revisited

Charles Hartman

1. The problem I reported about the disappearing cursor does have a  
temporary solution, which I got from one of the comments in the  
Bugzilla report: include in some stack script the lines
      delete stack "revCursors"
      reset cursors
Presto. And that should suggest a fix for the bug, shouldn't it?

2. Is there some way to quit the Dreamcard Player in Windows without  
Ctrl-Alt-Delete? Do I have to build an entire menu system just for  
that, which I have no use for in the Mac version?

Charles
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RE: Mac->Win revisited

MisterX
probably...

but a close window => closerequest => quit should do it
nothing major...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Charles Hartman
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 20:14
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Mac->Win revisited
>
>
> 1. The problem I reported about the disappearing cursor does
> have a temporary solution, which I got from one of the
> comments in the Bugzilla report: include in some stack script
> the lines
>       delete stack "revCursors"
>       reset cursors
> Presto. And that should suggest a fix for the bug, shouldn't it?
>
> 2. Is there some way to quit the Dreamcard Player in Windows
> without Ctrl-Alt-Delete? Do I have to build an entire menu
> system just for that, which I have no use for in the Mac version?
>
> Charles
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Re: Mac->Win revisited

Alex Tweedly
In reply to this post by Charles Hartman
Charles Hartman wrote:

> 2. Is there some way to quit the Dreamcard Player in Windows without  
> Ctrl-Alt-Delete? Do I have to build an entire menu system just for  
> that, which I have no use for in the Mac version?
>
Quit the Player itself, or the stack you are currently "playing" ?

In either case, AFAICT, the usual Windows methods work OK
   - Alt-F4
   - the little X icon in the title bar
   -  right-click on title bar and select Close

--
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Mac->Win revisited

Charles Hartman

On Jul 27, 2005, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

>> 2. Is there some way to quit the Dreamcard Player in Windows  
>> without  Ctrl-Alt-Delete? Do I have to build an entire menu system  
>> just for  that, which I have no use for in the Mac version?
>>
>>
> Quit the Player itself, or the stack you are currently "playing" ?
>
> In either case, AFAICT, the usual Windows methods work OK
>   - Alt-F4
>   - the little X icon in the title bar
>   -  right-click on title bar and select Close

I want (the user no matter how addled to be able) to quit the Player.

But the little X icon in the title bar does _not_ do it. That closes  
(each) stack, but leaves the Player sitting there in memory. Not  
being used to Windows, it took me a while to find that out. I  
certainly don't trust my users to know it. So I'm putting a nice, big  
QUIT button on the menu/map substack.

Thanks.

  Charles

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Re: Mac->Win revisited

Alex Tweedly
Charles Hartman wrote:

>
> On Jul 27, 2005, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>>> 2. Is there some way to quit the Dreamcard Player in Windows  
>>> without  Ctrl-Alt-Delete? Do I have to build an entire menu system  
>>> just for  that, which I have no use for in the Mac version?
>>>
>>>
>> Quit the Player itself, or the stack you are currently "playing" ?
>>
>> In either case, AFAICT, the usual Windows methods work OK
>>   - Alt-F4
>>   - the little X icon in the title bar
>>   -  right-click on title bar and select Close
>
>
> I want (the user no matter how addled to be able) to quit the Player.
>
> But the little X icon in the title bar does _not_ do it.

Yes it does work, exactly as I and other Windows users would expect it
to work.  It closes the app (or window) in whose title bar you are at
the time (or which has focus when you do Alt-F4). That's what Windows
*always* does.

> That closes  (each) stack, but leaves the Player sitting there in
> memory. Not  being used to Windows, it took me a while to find that
> out. I  certainly don't trust my users to know it. So I'm putting a
> nice, big  QUIT button on the menu/map substack.
>
I'd be inclined to expect your users to know it - standard Windows
behaviour. Why should closing one window/instance close any others ?

Using a button linked to a script containing a "quit" should do what you
want - though I personally think that's a bug. See BZ 2596 and 2597.

A "quit" in a stack within the player causes the entire player to quit
*including* any other stack currently running within that player. You
can run any number of stacks within a Player (and cannot run multiple
instances of the Player) - so if you need to have two stacks running
simultaneously, and one "quit"s, the other exits also, taking with it
potentially any unsaved work.

btw - I think I had one stack that tried to use "quit" and it didn't
work - but after I discovered the problems in 2597, I stopped trying to
do it, so didn't pursue that issue all the way to the end ... so make
sure you test it thoroughly (as if I had to say that, sorry).

--
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Mac->Win revisited

Charles Hartman

On Jul 27, 2005, at 4:50 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Yes it does work, exactly as I and other Windows users would expect  
> it to work.  It closes the app (or window) in whose title bar you  
> are at the time (or which has focus when you do Alt-F4). That's  
> what Windows *always* does.

Yes, I understand that. The problem is that after you close all (up  
to) three stacks in my app, you think you've quit the Player; but you  
haven't.

I've tried out the Quit (with just an OK or Cancel), and it seems to  
work. If this thing gets more elaborate, and there's data to save,  
I'll move carefully.

Thanks again.

Charles

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Re: Mac->Win revisited

Thomas McGrath III
Pardon me chiming in here.

When using things like players and speech etc. it is our responsibility
to close them ourselves in our code when and if for any reason our
program is to quit. So I would put a piece of script in a on closeStack
that takes care of the player when closing.

This is because players and speech use libraries and/or QT etc. to work
and like a serial port that is opened it must be closed or problems may
occur. This is good coding practice.

Maybe you can have in each stack an on closeStack that checks if all
three (+-) stacks are closed and 'then' closes the player only if all
are closed.

HTH

Thanks

Tom

On Jul 27, 2005, at 6:23 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

>
> On Jul 27, 2005, at 4:50 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>> Yes it does work, exactly as I and other Windows users would expect
>> it to work.  It closes the app (or window) in whose title bar you are
>> at the time (or which has focus when you do Alt-F4). That's what
>> Windows *always* does.
>
> Yes, I understand that. The problem is that after you close all (up
> to) three stacks in my app, you think you've quit the Player; but you
> haven't.
>
> I've tried out the Quit (with just an OK or Cancel), and it seems to
> work. If this thing gets more elaborate, and there's data to save,
> I'll move carefully.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Charles
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>


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Re: Mac->Win revisited

Alex Tweedly
Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Pardon me chiming in here.
>
> When using things like players and speech etc. it is our
> responsibility to close them ourselves in our code when and if for any
> reason our program is to quit. So I would put a piece of script in a
> on closeStack that takes care of the player when closing.
>
Quite right - except that the context here is that the "Player" that
Charles was referring to is the Dreamcard Player, which he's using to
run the stacks.

> This is because players and speech use libraries and/or QT etc. to
> work and like a serial port that is opened it must be closed or
> problems may occur. This is good coding practice.
>
> Maybe you can have in each stack an on closeStack that checks if all
> three (+-) stacks are closed and 'then' closes the player only if all
> are closed.
>
We do indeed need to do that with audio, video etc. players - but I
don't think it's possible for a stack to close the DC Player in a
controlled way, and arguably it shouldn't need to.

If you double-click a stack icon to run it, when the stack closes 'it'
should disappear completely  (i.e. taking the player away with it).
Otherwise, there's no way to provide a transparent experience for the
user - she shouldn't need to know whether the software I've distributed
to her is an application in its own right, or uses some player mechanism
to run.

--
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Mac->Win revisited

Jon-3
In reply to this post by Thomas McGrath III
Perhaps we should have a feature request that always does this
automatically for everyone?  All of this kind of stuff is taken care of
automatically in the other IDEs I use...

:)

Jon


Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Pardon me chiming in here.
>
> When using things like players and speech etc. it is our
> responsibility to close them ourselves in our code when and if for any
> reason our program is to quit. So I would put a piece of script in a
> on closeStack that takes care of the player when closing.
>
> This is because players and speech use libraries and/or QT etc. to
> work and like a serial port that is opened it must be closed or
> problems may occur. This is good coding practice.
>
> Maybe you can have in each stack an on closeStack that checks if all
> three (+-) stacks are closed and 'then' closes the player only if all
> are closed.
>
> HTH
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom
>
> On Jul 27, 2005, at 6:23 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jul 27, 2005, at 4:50 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>>
>>> Yes it does work, exactly as I and other Windows users would expect
>>> it to work.  It closes the app (or window) in whose title bar you
>>> are at the time (or which has focus when you do Alt-F4). That's what
>>> Windows *always* does.
>>
>>
>> Yes, I understand that. The problem is that after you close all (up
>> to) three stacks in my app, you think you've quit the Player; but you
>> haven't.
>>
>> I've tried out the Quit (with just an OK or Cancel), and it seems to
>> work. If this thing gets more elaborate, and there's data to save,
>> I'll move carefully.
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>>
>
>
> Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.9, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev
> 2.6
>
>
> Advanced Media Group
> Eagle Works Art & Sculpture
> Semantic Compaction Systems
> Prentke Romich Company
> Prentke Romich International
> SCIconics, LLC
> Artist
> Thomas J McGrath III
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
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Re: Mac->Win revisited

Charles Hartman
In reply to this post by Alex Tweedly

On Jul 28, 2005, at 4:53 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>
>> Pardon me chiming in here.
>>
>> When using things like players and speech etc. it is our  
>> responsibility to close them ourselves in our code when and if for  
>> any reason our program is to quit. So I would put a piece of  
>> script in a on closeStack that takes care of the player when closing.
>>
>>
> Quite right - except that the context here is that the "Player"  
> that Charles was referring to is the Dreamcard Player, which he's  
> using to run the stacks.
>
>
>> This is because players and speech use libraries and/or QT etc. to  
>> work and like a serial port that is opened it must be closed or  
>> problems may occur. This is good coding practice.
>>
>> Maybe you can have in each stack an on closeStack that checks if  
>> all three (+-) stacks are closed and 'then' closes the player only  
>> if all are closed.
>>
>>
> We do indeed need to do that with audio, video etc. players - but I  
> don't think it's possible for a stack to close the DC Player in a  
> controlled way, and arguably it shouldn't need to.
>
> If you double-click a stack icon to run it, when the stack closes  
> 'it' should disappear completely (i.e. taking the player away with  
> it). Otherwise, there's no way to provide a transparent experience  
> for the user - she shouldn't need to know whether the software I've  
> distributed to her is an application in its own right, or uses some  
> player mechanism to run.

Thanks to both. It's true that I forgot the possibility that my user  
will close stack-windows _without_ pressing my nice new Quit button.  
I should trap onClose messages in some logical order which will  
depend on the design of my app.

Charles


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Re: Mac->Win revisited

Thomas McGrath III
In reply to this post by Alex Tweedly
Alex,

Now that's confusing. ;-)

I always think of "Player" when I see "Player" and not "Player" as in
Dreamcard "Player".

I will now have to pay a bit more attention to "Player" on the list.

Thanks,

Tom

On Jul 28, 2005, at 4:53 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Quite right - except that the context here is that the "Player" that
> Charles was referring to is the Dreamcard Player, which he's using to
> run the stacks.



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Re: Mac->Win revisited

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by Jon-3
Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
> When using things like players and speech etc. it is our
> responsibility to close them ourselves in our code when and if for
> any reason our program is to quit. So I would put a piece of script
> in a on closeStack that takes care of the player when closing.
>
> This is because players and speech use libraries and/or QT etc. to
> work and like a serial port that is opened it must be closed or
> problems may occur. This is good coding practice.

Players? You mean, like QT player objects? How would one "close" a QT
player? I've never had any problem quitting while ignoring them. Maybe I
don't understand what you mean.

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Re: Mac->Win revisited

Thomas McGrath III
Jac,

I was actually referring to grabbing  video in QT (referring to it
being a player type object) as in:

In stack: (this is to clean it up on quit/close of stack)
on closeStack
   revCloseVideoGrabber
end closeStack

In Initialize button:
on mouseUp
revInitializeVideoGrabber short name of this stack, "QT", the rect of
this stack
end mouseUp

In record button:
on mouseUp
   revRecordVideo "mymovie.avi"
end mouseUp

In stop button:
on mouseUp
revStopRecordingVideo
end mouseUp

It is my understanding that not calling revCloseVideoGrabber on
quit/close could cause memory problems.
 From the docs:
If your application uses video capture, you should execute the
revCloseVideoGrabber command either when your application is finished
using video capture, when the stack that uses video capture is closed
(in a closeStack handler), or when your application quits (in a
shutdown handler).
The Video library loads the operating system's video capture software
into memory when you use the revInitializeVideoGrabber command. The
revCloseVideoGrabber command unloads this software, freeing up the
memory it uses, when you're done.

Of course the same is true for speech:
revUnloadSpeech
from the docs:
Important!  If your application uses text to speech, you should execute
the revUnloadSpeech command either when your application is finished
using text to speech, when the stack that uses speech is closed (in a
closeStack handler), or when your application quits (in a shutdown
handler). This saves memory.


But it turns out the original thread was about the Dreamcard Player
anyway so this is a mute point.


Tom



On Jul 28, 2005, at 11:42 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Players? You mean, like QT player objects? How would one "close" a QT
> player? I've never had any problem quitting while ignoring them. Maybe
> I don't understand what you mean.
>
> --
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Re: Mac->Win revisited

J. Landman Gay
Thomas McGrath III wrote:

 > It is my understanding that not calling revCloseVideoGrabber on
 > quit/close could cause memory problems.

Oh, I see. Yes, that's right. I was thinking of plain old players that
run QT movies.

 >
 >
 > But it turns out the original thread was about the Dreamcard Player
 > anyway so this is a mute point.

Yeah, I knew that, but you got me curious. Thanks for the clarification.


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Re: Mac->Win revisited

Thomas McGrath III
Jac,

Yeah I posted 'all' of that mainly for the sake of others that were
reading this thread. I knew you would pick it up right away if I just
said revCloseVideoGrabber but I figured completeness was a good idea.

"Player" becomes a very general term now, and I don't know how to feel
about that. ;-(

Tom


On Jul 28, 2005, at 2:23 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
> > It is my understanding that not calling revCloseVideoGrabber on
> > quit/close could cause memory problems.
>
> Oh, I see. Yes, that's right. I was thinking of plain old players that
> run QT movies.
>
> >
> >
> > But it turns out the original thread was about the Dreamcard Player
> > anyway so this is a mute point.
>
> Yeah, I knew that, but you got me curious. Thanks for the
> clarification.
>
>
> --
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