Moving on from 8.* to 9.*

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Moving on from 8.* to 9.*

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Now that we have the app in the iOS app store… with one big bug pending on the Android version…

I am working on the first 'fixes" and upgrades for V1.1 of the app.

Again, as is often the case for many of us through the years, I have a case of "choice paralysis" with respect to what would be the most useful decision. Stay inside the 8.* version track?  or move up to  the 9.* version track

I do tend to enjoy living on the cutting edge… not so much "enjoy" as avail of the new features sooner than later.

But now that we are developing real world apps that go out to the stores and this is no an in-house toolbox sandbox, it seems wise to be more conservative. I can't afford any horrible crashes with stack corruption (hasn't happened in years, but you never know) So bottom line question is: For those who have adopt  using 9.*

a) are you able to build successfully for iOS and Android with no issues?
b) do you face serious caveats that would warn against moving up

e.g. in this realm is that our enterprise admin here just issued a huge warning not to upgrade to Apple's latest OS, because everything we use will break…

So what about 9.0.0 DP8  are you happy with this? Anything you can share with the more conservative users here that prefer to sit pat on their old versions based on "if it is not broken, don't fix" it philosophy?

I understand it's not a problem to install several different version and I have just downloaded both 8.2 DP1  and 9.0.0DP 8

but before diving in… would like to hear from anyone here… on issues with 9.*

Br

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Re: Moving on from 8.* to 9.*

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Perhaps this answers the question. Looking at the download table/release notes.

9.0.0 DP 8 is 3 months behind… last updated July 13.

Doesn't this mean all the fixes to bugs in 8.2 DP1  are still bugs in 9.0.0 DP8 ?

BR Wrote:

    So what about 9.0.0 DP8  are you happy with this? Anything you can share with the more conservative users here that prefer to sit pat on their old versions based on "if it is not broken, don't fix" it philosophy?
   
    I understand it's not a problem to install several different version and I have just downloaded both 8.2 DP1  and 9.0.0DP 8
   
    but before diving in… would like to hear from anyone here… on issues with 9.*
   
   

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Re: Moving on from 8.* to 9.*

Tom Glod via use-livecode
On 09/20/2017 01:09 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:

>      I understand it's not a problem to install several different version and I have just downloaded both 8.2 DP1  and 9.0.0DP 8

Um... see below.

>      
>      but before diving in… would like to hear from anyone here… on issues with 9.*

I think this will depend on a number of factors, some of which have to
do with your OS. For me, the last usable version of LC9 is dp6, which is
dated 8 March, so has no bugfixes or new features in the last six
months. While dp6 is the version I've standardized on for new work, I
can't recommend it for anything other than experimenting with new
features. In particular, extensions are not binary-compatible between
LC8 and LC9, which means I have two separate folders for user plugins,
etc. This is more of a pain than it appears, because LC8 and LC9 share
the same preferences file, so I have to switch preferences from the IDE
when moving between the two versions.

That said, dp6 seems pretty stable to me, so if you don't mind being six
months out of date, it's worth a look, especially if you can install it
on a separate machine or VM. I wouldn't trust production-ready code to
it, though.

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]


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Re: Moving on from 8.* to 9.*

Tom Glod via use-livecode
all mute

1) using 9. that old doesn’t' work for us.. We have got too much vested in  8.* that works well, can't risk it.

2) 45 minutes into using 8.2.0 DP1 I had so many issues and problems that I was force to abandon that too. Simple things like  setting Select Grouped to true and then resizing manually a field which is in a sub group of a larger group.

I just dragged the handle on the right side of the group to make it wider and the whole stack window "blew up" weird blocks of odd color, all UI elements completely gone. there after things started failing mouse message not working, strange behaviors… like clicking on an object in the Project browser, refused to select it and number of other "expected" responses from the IDE start to also die.  Yikes Bail, do not save do not pass go. save nothing now…

reboot, try again, didn't get better.

The project was to try and "flatten" a big parent group, with sub-groups, buy editing the "Big Mama" group and then selecting the sub groups and ungrouping them. I had a bead on what I wanted to do and was working really fast…

if I were to a generalize "problem" I think the whole interaction between nested groups, making selections in the stack UI itself and from within the PB… internally it's as if LC/IDE is loosing track… in particular, the run time updating of the PB is definitely not tracking what I'm doing in the UI. I would keep twirling down the menu and closing it back up. groups of objects I had ungrouped were still showing as grouped.  Frequently the whole PB just goes completely blank, top to bottom. To refresh requires closing it, saving the stack then opening the PB again. I would switch to the revApplicationOverview, but have gotten "addicted" to the PB's wonderful little script number of lines buttons…where you can see if it is an external behavior or the script is in the stack itself.  

Suspect:  if the PB is "stuck" with old information and you have changed something in the UI itself, then if you try to change properties of objects and groups from inside the PB itself, bad things start to happen. I'm really just guessing but it’s as if the PB is a map to the stack(s) and groups of objects there in, but if you start changing things inside the stack(s) and the PB is not up to date, then the map of the internal landscape of object starts to fail because messages to the architecture made with items selected by clicking on the PB…  as if it the plane was pointed to NY… but then I go into the cockpit and point the plane to Chicago, Then go back to "remoted control from the ground" (the Project Browser)  the PB still thinks it is going to NY, so then if I attempt to use the PB add fuel to the plane from inside the PB which still things the plane is on a path to NY, nothing happens,  and things start to fail…

I realize this is the most horrible bug report possible, and it’s a real wild "guess" but I don't have time for this right now to create "recipes for failures.

I'm back on 8.1.6. GIT save me… … at least I was not too far along in a new branch that I could just stop and delete everything I had done in 8.2 by deleting that entire branch. Shut down, LC, revert to 8.1.6 and start fresh with a new branch off nightly. Still, it cost me 2 hours…, anyway, always do things better the second pass…

Back to flattening big groups.. why? because scrolling is horrible, so we  have to refactor the architecture that was dependent on names of sub groups which are now all "disappearing" (as I ungroup the sub groups) along with the behavior attached to those subgroups

I have to find a new way to get the target from a "row" when there are no "rows" as such any more in the group. Where a "row" is now just three objects in layer (e.g.) 5,6.7 … a long series of direct child objects.  These kinds of groups scroll smoothly. so, it's worth it.
Thanks to Jacque for the clever trick of setting all object on top of a background to "disabled" such that the mousecontrol is the object behind the others. FYI "disabled" is not a property exposed in the PI, but is an effective prop for an image object nevertheless.  What fun…

Hopefully DataGrid2 solves this, though rumors are that it really doesn't… "above my pay grade"




On 9/20/17, 11:34 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Wieder via use-livecode" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

    That said, dp6 seems pretty stable to me, so if you don't mind being six
    months out of date, it's worth a look, especially if you can install it
    on a separate machine or VM. I wouldn't trust production-ready code to
    it, though.
   
   

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Re: Moving on from 8.* to 9.*

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

 > 1) using 9. that old doesn’t' work for us.. We have got too much
 > vested in  8.* that works well, can't risk it.

When v9 goes final v8 will no longer be maintained.  Given the changes
we can expect in OSes, esp. mobile, not keeping current will eventually
shut down your project.

What are the bug report numbers for the issues you've encountered with
v9?  Let's see if we can resolve those so your project can keep current
with OS changes as smoothly as possible.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Moving on from 8.* to 9.*

Tom Glod via use-livecode
I'm naïve about how these branches work. Probably need a firmware update in my brain on this whole "future" versions thing.

I had to "regress' to 8.1.7 RC1  because 8.2 DP 1 because the IDE melted down pretty rapidly.

You wrote: " When v9 goes final v8 will no longer be maintained"  

Yes, of course… that's a given. But as of today: Isn't v9  missing *all* the patches to the product since March of this year? Wouldn't HQ need to merge everything thru 8.1.7 into 9? and if that was already done, wouldn't it's date in the download section reflect the date that happened?

Otherwise, if we use 9 aren't we facing things already solved in the 8.1.* branch between March and September of this year?

What am I missing?

BR

Richard Gaskin wrote:

    > 1) using 9. that old doesn’t' work for us.. We have got too much
    > vested in  8.* that works well, can't risk it.
   
    When v9 goes final v8 will no longer be maintained.  Given the changes
    we can expect in OSes, esp. mobile, not keeping current will eventually
    shut down your project.
   
    What are the bug report numbers for the issues you've encountered with
    v9?  Let's see if we can resolve those so your project can keep current
    with OS changes as smoothly as possible.
   
   

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Re: Moving on from 8.* to 9.*

Tom Glod via use-livecode
DP9 should have the fixes from the 8 branch.  Essentially any bug fix on
the 8.1 branch will get merged into the 8.2 branch.  Any bug fixes from 8.1
or 8.2 will get merged into the 9.0 branch.  In GitHub, there have been a
bunch of these type of merges recently.  If you are up to compiling the
community edition, you can have bleeding edge all the time :)

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm naïve about how these branches work. Probably need a firmware update
> in my brain on this whole "future" versions thing.
>
> I had to "regress' to 8.1.7 RC1  because 8.2 DP 1 because the IDE melted
> down pretty rapidly.
>
> You wrote: " When v9 goes final v8 will no longer be maintained"
>
> Yes, of course… that's a given. But as of today: Isn't v9  missing *all*
> the patches to the product since March of this year? Wouldn't HQ need to
> merge everything thru 8.1.7 into 9? and if that was already done, wouldn't
> it's date in the download section reflect the date that happened?
>
> Otherwise, if we use 9 aren't we facing things already solved in the 8.1.*
> branch between March and September of this year?
>
> What am I missing?
>
> BR
>
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>     > 1) using 9. that old doesn’t' work for us.. We have got too much
>     > vested in  8.* that works well, can't risk it.
>
>     When v9 goes final v8 will no longer be maintained.  Given the changes
>     we can expect in OSes, esp. mobile, not keeping current will eventually
>     shut down your project.
>
>     What are the bug report numbers for the issues you've encountered with
>     v9?  Let's see if we can resolve those so your project can keep current
>     with OS changes as smoothly as possible.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: Moving on from 8.* to 9.*

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Hi all,

The LC 9.0 DP-9 build, released today, has all the fixes of LC 8.1.x and
8.2.x.

Best,
Panos
--

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:03 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> DP9 should have the fixes from the 8 branch.  Essentially any bug fix on
> the 8.1 branch will get merged into the 8.2 branch.  Any bug fixes from 8.1
> or 8.2 will get merged into the 9.0 branch.  In GitHub, there have been a
> bunch of these type of merges recently.  If you are up to compiling the
> community edition, you can have bleeding edge all the time :)
>
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
> use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I'm naïve about how these branches work. Probably need a firmware update
> > in my brain on this whole "future" versions thing.
> >
> > I had to "regress' to 8.1.7 RC1  because 8.2 DP 1 because the IDE melted
> > down pretty rapidly.
> >
> > You wrote: " When v9 goes final v8 will no longer be maintained"
> >
> > Yes, of course… that's a given. But as of today: Isn't v9  missing *all*
> > the patches to the product since March of this year? Wouldn't HQ need to
> > merge everything thru 8.1.7 into 9? and if that was already done,
> wouldn't
> > it's date in the download section reflect the date that happened?
> >
> > Otherwise, if we use 9 aren't we facing things already solved in the
> 8.1.*
> > branch between March and September of this year?
> >
> > What am I missing?
> >
> > BR
> >
> > Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >
> >     > 1) using 9. that old doesn’t' work for us.. We have got too much
> >     > vested in  8.* that works well, can't risk it.
> >
> >     When v9 goes final v8 will no longer be maintained.  Given the
> changes
> >     we can expect in OSes, esp. mobile, not keeping current will
> eventually
> >     shut down your project.
> >
> >     What are the bug report numbers for the issues you've encountered
> with
> >     v9?  Let's see if we can resolve those so your project can keep
> current
> >     with OS changes as smoothly as possible.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Moving on from 8.* to 9.*

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Thanks Panos you are awesome… appreciate the responsiveness.

@ Richard.  OK, downloading now.. I'm in.  moving dev in 9 DP9.

 BR

On 9/22/17, 2:30 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

    Hi all,
   
    The LC 9.0 DP-9 build, released today, has all the fixes of LC 8.1.x and
    8.2.x.
   
    Best,
    Panos

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