OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

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OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Dr. Hawkins
This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few months.

--
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Kay C Lan
Yes same here, but what is far more concerning to me is that the
Notification I get to remedy the situation includes a link to log in
AND my password. Is this not a security hole just waiting to be
exploited? If I go to the link and I can't remember my password there
should be a 'forgot password' link and the usual method of resetting.

On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 6:48 AM, Dr. Hawkins <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few months.
>
> --
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Mike Kerner
Unfortunately several newsgroups I belong to do something like this - and
the Valentina one, even helpfully sends me an email in the clear once a
month with my password, no matter what.  Uncool.

On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Kay C Lan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes same here, but what is far more concerning to me is that the
> Notification I get to remedy the situation includes a link to log in
> AND my password. Is this not a security hole just waiting to be
> exploited? If I go to the link and I can't remember my password there
> should be a 'forgot password' link and the usual method of resetting.
>
> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 6:48 AM, Dr. Hawkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
> months.
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> > (702) 508-8462
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

William Prothero
A very popular listserve named “Mailman” does this. It comes with most VPS hosting service.
Bill

> On Dec 30, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Mike Kerner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately several newsgroups I belong to do something like this - and
> the Valentina one, even helpfully sends me an email in the clear once a
> month with my password, no matter what.  Uncool.
>
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Kay C Lan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Yes same here, but what is far more concerning to me is that the
>> Notification I get to remedy the situation includes a link to log in
>> AND my password. Is this not a security hole just waiting to be
>> exploited? If I go to the link and I can't remember my password there
>> should be a 'forgot password' link and the usual method of resetting.
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 6:48 AM, Dr. Hawkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
>> months.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
>>> (702) 508-8462
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Richmond Mathewson-2
In reply to this post by Dr. Hawkins
Really: only 4?

It is a bit farcical.

Richmond.

On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few months.
>

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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

J. Landman Gay
On 12/31/16 2:16 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> Really: only 4?
>
> It is a bit farcical.
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
>> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
>> months.

So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are
using gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If
there is a way to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since
the drops are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't
think there is much that LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and
actively rejected by Google filters.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Richmond Mathewson-2
Doesn't say much for Google.

Richmond.

On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 12/31/16 2:16 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>> Really: only 4?
>>
>> It is a bit farcical.
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
>>> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
>>> months.
>
> So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are
> using gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If
> there is a way to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since
> the drops are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't
> think there is much that LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and
> actively rejected by Google filters.
>
>

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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Mike Kerner
are we sure that is the reason?  This problem is recent.  I've been a
member of the list with the same gmail address since 2005 without having
these issues.

On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Richmond Mathewson <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Doesn't say much for Google.
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> On 12/31/16 2:16 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>
>>> Really: only 4?
>>>
>>> It is a bit farcical.
>>>
>>> Richmond.
>>>
>>> On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
>>>> months.
>>>>
>>>
>> So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are
>> using gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If there
>> is a way to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since the drops
>> are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't think there is
>> much that LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and actively rejected by
>> Google filters.
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Dr. Hawkins
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay
On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 11:53 AM, J. Landman Gay <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Since the drops are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't
> think there is much that LiveCode can do.


There may be a refusal at the receiving end, but it is the server at
livecode's end that is dropping members from the list.

An easy fix is noting the 99+% false positive on refused messages from
gmail.

For such a domain, simply don't drop, for example, until three failures in
a specified time period.

--
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner
No, not entirely sure, but I've read about it before. Google changes its
algorithms and spam filters frequently, so it's possible they've tweaked
it again.

Here's one article I found:
<http://robbat2.livejournal.com/241253.html>

If you google "gmail bounces mailman emails" there are thousands of
hits, some of which are more relevant than others.


On 12/31/16 3:20 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:

> are we sure that is the reason?  This problem is recent.  I've been a
> member of the list with the same gmail address since 2005 without having
> these issues.
>
> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Richmond Mathewson <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Doesn't say much for Google.
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/31/16 2:16 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Really: only 4?
>>>>
>>>> It is a bit farcical.
>>>>
>>>> Richmond.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
>>>>> months.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are
>>> using gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If there
>>> is a way to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since the drops
>>> are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't think there is
>>> much that LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and actively rejected by
>>> Google filters.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Mike Kerner
Is gmail actually bouncing them?  I thought that everything suspicious
ended up in the spam folder.

On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 5:54 PM, J. Landman Gay <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> No, not entirely sure, but I've read about it before. Google changes its
> algorithms and spam filters frequently, so it's possible they've tweaked it
> again.
>
> Here's one article I found:
> <http://robbat2.livejournal.com/241253.html>
>
> If you google "gmail bounces mailman emails" there are thousands of hits,
> some of which are more relevant than others.
>
>
>
> On 12/31/16 3:20 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:
>
>> are we sure that is the reason?  This problem is recent.  I've been a
>> member of the list with the same gmail address since 2005 without having
>> these issues.
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Richmond Mathewson <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Doesn't say much for Google.
>>>
>>> Richmond.
>>>
>>> On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/31/16 2:16 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Really: only 4?
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a bit farcical.
>>>>>
>>>>> Richmond.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
>>>>>> months.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are
>>>> using gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If
>>>> there
>>>> is a way to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since the
>>>> drops
>>>> are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't think there
>>>> is
>>>> much that LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and actively rejected
>>>> by
>>>> Google filters.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

William Prothero
FYI:
I am signed on with gmail and am having no problems.
Bill

> On Dec 31, 2016, at 4:24 PM, Mike Kerner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Is gmail actually bouncing them?  I thought that everything suspicious
> ended up in the spam folder.
>
> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 5:54 PM, J. Landman Gay <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> No, not entirely sure, but I've read about it before. Google changes its
>> algorithms and spam filters frequently, so it's possible they've tweaked it
>> again.
>>
>> Here's one article I found:
>> <http://robbat2.livejournal.com/241253.html>
>>
>> If you google "gmail bounces mailman emails" there are thousands of hits,
>> some of which are more relevant than others.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/31/16 3:20 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:
>>
>>> are we sure that is the reason?  This problem is recent.  I've been a
>>> member of the list with the same gmail address since 2005 without having
>>> these issues.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Richmond Mathewson <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Doesn't say much for Google.
>>>>
>>>> Richmond.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/16 2:16 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Really: only 4?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a bit farcical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richmond.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
>>>>>>> months.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are
>>>>> using gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If
>>>>> there
>>>>> is a way to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since the
>>>>> drops
>>>>> are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't think there
>>>>> is
>>>>> much that LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and actively rejected
>>>>> by
>>>>> Google filters.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner
I assumed Gmail is bouncing emails because the error mailman returns to the
list member is "too many bounces". It could be something else though.
Apparently it doesn't happen to all Gmail users, only some, and if I
remember right, some AOL and Yahoo addresses do the same thing.

It might be useful for an affected member to ask Google support if they
know why it happens.

Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On December 31, 2016 6:26:47 PM Mike Kerner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is gmail actually bouncing them?  I thought that everything suspicious
> ended up in the spam folder.
>
> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 5:54 PM, J. Landman Gay <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> No, not entirely sure, but I've read about it before. Google changes its
>> algorithms and spam filters frequently, so it's possible they've tweaked it
>> again.
>>
>> Here's one article I found:
>> <http://robbat2.livejournal.com/241253.html>
>>
>> If you google "gmail bounces mailman emails" there are thousands of hits,
>> some of which are more relevant than others.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/31/16 3:20 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:
>>
>>> are we sure that is the reason?  This problem is recent.  I've been a
>>> member of the list with the same gmail address since 2005 without having
>>> these issues.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Richmond Mathewson <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Doesn't say much for Google.
>>>>
>>>> Richmond.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/16 2:16 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Really: only 4?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a bit farcical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richmond.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
>>>>>>> months.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are
>>>>> using gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If
>>>>> there
>>>>> is a way to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since the
>>>>> drops
>>>>> are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't think there
>>>>> is
>>>>> much that LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and actively rejected
>>>>> by
>>>>> Google filters.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Mike Kerner
hahahahahahaha that's funny.  You don't get past the level 1, and they are
always throwing it back on the other guy

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 1:26 PM, J. Landman Gay <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I assumed Gmail is bouncing emails because the error mailman returns to
> the list member is "too many bounces". It could be something else though.
> Apparently it doesn't happen to all Gmail users, only some, and if I
> remember right, some AOL and Yahoo addresses do the same thing.
>
> It might be useful for an affected member to ask Google support if they
> know why it happens.
>
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
>
> On December 31, 2016 6:26:47 PM Mike Kerner <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> Is gmail actually bouncing them?  I thought that everything suspicious
>> ended up in the spam folder.
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 5:54 PM, J. Landman Gay <[hidden email]
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> No, not entirely sure, but I've read about it before. Google changes its
>>> algorithms and spam filters frequently, so it's possible they've tweaked
>>> it
>>> again.
>>>
>>> Here's one article I found:
>>> <http://robbat2.livejournal.com/241253.html>
>>>
>>> If you google "gmail bounces mailman emails" there are thousands of hits,
>>> some of which are more relevant than others.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/31/16 3:20 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:
>>>
>>> are we sure that is the reason?  This problem is recent.  I've been a
>>>> member of the list with the same gmail address since 2005 without having
>>>> these issues.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Richmond Mathewson <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't say much for Google.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Richmond.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/31/16 2:16 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really: only 4?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is a bit farcical.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Richmond.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> months.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> using gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> is a way to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since the
>>>>>> drops
>>>>>> are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't think there
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> much that LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and actively
>>>>>> rejected
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> Google filters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>    and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>



--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Bob Sneidar-2
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
It is possible that someone's list address got harvested and is being actively used for populating spam headers, in which case Google spam filters would have no way of discerning that the address or entire server was viable.

Bob S


> On Dec 31, 2016, at 11:55 , Richmond Mathewson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Doesn't say much for Google.
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> On 12/31/16 2:16 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>> Really: only 4?
>>>
>>> It is a bit farcical.
>>>
>>> Richmond.
>>>
>>> On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
>>>> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
>>>> months.
>>
>> So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are using gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If there is a way to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since the drops are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't think there is much that LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and actively rejected by Google filters.
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Bob Sneidar-2
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
Concerning getting malware and subsequently getting all your cashed and saved email addresses sent to demonic entities known as "spam houses", I suppose the moral to this story is... DON'T CLICK THE LINK!

Unless it's from friends and family, in which case... DON'T CLICK THE LINK!

Unless it's from your bank, or a long lost friend in which case...

DO!

NOT!

CLICK!

THE!

LINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob S



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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

prothero@earthlearningsolutions.org
Folks,
My Apple mail program lets me see the actual link before I click it, by hovering the mouse over the link and examining the destination. I have gotten phishing that looks exactly like an email my bank would send. This season I've gotten many emails trying to alert me to a package that could not be delivered, and saying my server was putting out spam. All of these had attachments with malware that would be installed.

It has been a busy season for phishermen and phisherwomen.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 8:11 AM, Bob Sneidar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Concerning getting malware and subsequently getting all your cashed and saved email addresses sent to demonic entities known as "spam houses", I suppose the moral to this story is... DON'T CLICK THE LINK!
>
> Unless it's from friends and family, in which case... DON'T CLICK THE LINK!
>
> Unless it's from your bank, or a long lost friend in which case...
>
> DO!
>
> NOT!
>
> CLICK!
>
> THE!
>
> LINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Bob S
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

J. Landman Gay
Found this explanation:
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2015-December/080211.html

It includes this:

Let us say you have 5 users on your list, user1 at aol.com, user2 at
aol.com, user3 at aol.com user4 at aol.com and user5 at aol.com. user1 at
aol.com posts a piece of mail to your list. mailman tries to deliver to
user2, user3, user4 and user5 @ aol.com aol says "drop dead, we don't talk
to you because of our DMARC policy" mail to user2 user3 user4 and user5
bounces. Their bounce count is incremented.

user2 at aol.com posts a piece of mail to your list. mailman tries to
deliver to user1, user3, user4 and user5 @ aol.com aol says "drop dead, we
don't talk to you because of our DMARC policy" mail to user1 user3 user4
and user5 bounces. Their bounce count is incremented. and so on. Every time
somebody from aol sends mail to the list, it bounces for every other aol
member on your list. Their bounce counts increase.

One day, some message sends some of the bounce counts over the limit
mailman has, after which it says -- Too many bounces! I cannot deliver mail
to this account! Unsubscribe this person! And, because of the way things
have happened you get a triggering message which causes a lot of
unsubscribes _from the same site_.

Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Ben Rubinstein-2
In reply to this post by Bob Sneidar-2
In reply to this

 >> On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>> So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are
>>> using gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If
>>> there is a way to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since
>>> the drops are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't
>>> think there is much that LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and
>>> actively rejected by Google filters.

(which I don't have in original form because... I got bounced again just
before xmas and have only just re-enabled delivery!)

... I have nothing to do with gmail, at least in relation to any accounts that
runrev or its list software knows about, and I've also been bounced at least
four times in the last few months.

So I don't think it's a gmail thing specifically.

It is interesting because I've not noticed a similar problem on any non-runrev
lists I subscribe to (including other mailman ones). And come to think of it,
I'm not sure that I've been bounced from livecode-dev.

Is it that there is a lot of spam being sent to the list (which most of us
aren't aware of because our mail services or mail clients sweep it away before
we could see it)? If so I'd expect to see them in the archives, and a on a
brief scan for the last couple of months I don't see any.

Presumably the only way to debug this is if Heather can catch some of the
actual bounces messages from our email servers back to Mailman, to see what
reasons are stated in those bounces. Or if anyone is still running their own
mail server (why?) and has the problem perhaps they could check their logs.


On 03/01/2017 16:08, Bob Sneidar wrote:

> It is possible that someone's list address got harvested and is being actively used for populating spam headers, in which case Google spam filters would have no way of discerning that the address or entire server was viable.
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Dec 31, 2016, at 11:55 , Richmond Mathewson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Doesn't say much for Google.
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>> On 12/31/16 2:16 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>>> Really: only 4?
>>>>
>>>> It is a bit farcical.
>>>>
>>>> Richmond.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
>>>>> This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
>>>>> months.
>>>
>>> So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are using gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If there is a way to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since the drops are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't think there is much that LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and actively rejected by Google filters.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

Bob Sneidar-2
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay
Fair enough, except that list servers are supposed to be configured in such a way so as to get around this. A list server *should* send a separate email to each user in a list, NOT one email to ALL the users in the list. The latter will definitely get "DMARC'd" as spam, especially if the addresses are not in the BCC field. Also, the list server *should* send the emails in a throttled way, so as not to raise any flags.

It may be that gmail has tightened their DMARC rules, and so an adjustment needs to be made in the list server to accomodate them. If this cannot be done, it might be advisable to use a different domain. Mail issues like this are definitely a nuisance, but in the modern age where email accounts are getting compromised, providers are understandably a bit skittish.

Bob S


> On Jan 3, 2017, at 09:08 , J. Landman Gay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Found this explanation:
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2015-December/080211.html
>
> It includes this:
>
> Let us say you have 5 users on your list, user1 at aol.com, user2 at aol.com, user3 at aol.com user4 at aol.com and user5 at aol.com. user1 at aol.com posts a piece of mail to your list. mailman tries to deliver to user2, user3, user4 and user5 @ aol.com aol says "drop dead, we don't talk to you because of our DMARC policy" mail to user2 user3 user4 and user5 bounces. Their bounce count is incremented.
>
> user2 at aol.com posts a piece of mail to your list. mailman tries to deliver to user1, user3, user4 and user5 @ aol.com aol says "drop dead, we don't talk to you because of our DMARC policy" mail to user1 user3 user4 and user5 bounces. Their bounce count is incremented. and so on. Every time somebody from aol sends mail to the list, it bounces for every other aol member on your list. Their bounce counts increase.
>
> One day, some message sends some of the bounce counts over the limit mailman has, after which it says -- Too many bounces! I cannot deliver mail to this account! Unsubscribe this person! And, because of the way things have happened you get a triggering message which causes a lot of unsubscribes _from the same site_.
>
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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