[OT] Alan Kay is angry

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[OT] Alan Kay is angry

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Richmond wrote:
> All my upper-intermediate pupils will be going
> through this article in class this week.

These talking emoji remembers me Microsoft's
Agent Animated Characters Showcase project.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6umxhkdKzSY

If I remember well, the characters could be used
by developers within their own applications as
program helper and intelligent assistants.

Could you imagine that these talking characters
get access to Artificial Intelligence algorithms
through an internet connection?

How many of your students would select an animoji as
electronic assistant in their personal daily schedule?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/news/a28171/iphone-x-animoji/

Al
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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

Tom Glod via use-livecode
One of my beefs with Miscrosoft is all the times they butt in and try to help me when I am trying to get something done. I liken their systems to the little brother who kept tagging along wanting to help, yanking on my pants leg, and all he really did was get in the way and force me to deal with him.

I hated that little paper clip. The first thing I did was find a way to turn it off on every system I touched. But I still get balloons and dialogs popping up right in the middle of doing something, because when else can the system interrupt me? It has to wait until I am active. Very irritating.

Bob S


> On Sep 17, 2017, at 08:34 , Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If I remember well, the characters could be used
> by developers within their own applications as
> program helper and intelligent assistants.


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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Reading through that article, I get the sense that he believes that people are not educated or intellegent because the system of education is wholly responsible for failing to do so. Intellegent people often make this miscalculation, that they believe intellegence is something that can be nurtured. I disagree.

I think we can do a lot to maximize the mental health and growth of each individual child, but every child is different, and only a few will ever excel. Alan Kay seems like one of those few, and is frustrated that more people cannot be made to think like him. With all my experience with people, trying to teach them just to use the technology in front of them to good advantage, I have come to believe that this is a fools errand. Some people cannot learn much more, but most simply WILL NOT learn. They only absorb enough technology to get them by.

I think it's a huge mistake to try and treat all children as though they are capable of learning as well as the top 10 percentile. This approach has been disasterous in american schools, because what actually happens is, classes become tailored to the lowest percentile of students to try and bring them along, and those who might have excelled are held back until a stage in their development where it is likely too late. In America, we call that "equality".

In Europe (I have heard) or at least in some countries, exceptional children are noted and are put on a path of higher learning that the others are not. This would give mose high level school administrators in America caniption fits to even suggest this. We would have riots in our streets. I fear we are not long for the 1st world.

Bob S



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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Folks:
Because livecode is so relevant for education, I suppose this is a reasonable discussion for the users list. So, I will add another 2 cents.

One of the most interesting ideas I’ve heard recently, in education, is the idea that it’s very important to emphasize the “struggle” to learn. If students can learn that the “struggle" to acquire knowledge and understanding is vital, normal, and will be rewarding, they will become better lifelong learners.

As education tech folks, we try to make the content we want to present as clear, easy, and transparent as possible. In our effort, we may be reinforcing expectations that gaining knowledge should be easy. But, what is actually accomplished may be memorization and a shallow understanding of how existing knowledge can be used to explore and enhance new knowledge.

Best,
Bill P

> On Sep 18, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Reading through that article, I get the sense that he believes that people are not educated or intellegent because the system of education is wholly responsible for failing to do so. Intellegent people often make this miscalculation, that they believe intellegence is something that can be nurtured. I disagree.
>
> I think we can do a lot to maximize the mental health and growth of each individual child, but every child is different, and only a few will ever excel. Alan Kay seems like one of those few, and is frustrated that more people cannot be made to think like him. With all my experience with people, trying to teach them just to use the technology in front of them to good advantage, I have come to believe that this is a fools errand. Some people cannot learn much more, but most simply WILL NOT learn. They only absorb enough technology to get them by.
>
> I think it's a huge mistake to try and treat all children as though they are capable of learning as well as the top 10 percentile. This approach has been disasterous in american schools, because what actually happens is, classes become tailored to the lowest percentile of students to try and bring them along, and those who might have excelled are held back until a stage in their development where it is likely too late. In America, we call that "equality".
>
> In Europe (I have heard) or at least in some countries, exceptional children are noted and are put on a path of higher learning that the others are not. This would give mose high level school administrators in America caniption fits to even suggest this. We would have riots in our streets. I fear we are not long for the 1st world.
>
> Bob S
>
>
>
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> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Wow: Bill . . . you have put your point so very well: that should be
engraved on stone and tattooed onto every teacher's head!

Thanks so much.

Richmond.

On 9/18/17 7:07 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:

> Folks:
> Because livecode is so relevant for education, I suppose this is a reasonable discussion for the users list. So, I will add another 2 cents.
>
> One of the most interesting ideas I’ve heard recently, in education, is the idea that it’s very important to emphasize the “struggle” to learn. If students can learn that the “struggle" to acquire knowledge and understanding is vital, normal, and will be rewarding, they will become better lifelong learners.
>
> As education tech folks, we try to make the content we want to present as clear, easy, and transparent as possible. In our effort, we may be reinforcing expectations that gaining knowledge should be easy. But, what is actually accomplished may be memorization and a shallow understanding of how existing knowledge can be used to explore and enhance new knowledge.
>
> Best,
> Bill P
>
>> On Sep 18, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Reading through that article, I get the sense that he believes that people are not educated or intellegent because the system of education is wholly responsible for failing to do so. Intellegent people often make this miscalculation, that they believe intellegence is something that can be nurtured. I disagree.
>>
>> I think we can do a lot to maximize the mental health and growth of each individual child, but every child is different, and only a few will ever excel. Alan Kay seems like one of those few, and is frustrated that more people cannot be made to think like him. With all my experience with people, trying to teach them just to use the technology in front of them to good advantage, I have come to believe that this is a fools errand. Some people cannot learn much more, but most simply WILL NOT learn. They only absorb enough technology to get them by.
>>
>> I think it's a huge mistake to try and treat all children as though they are capable of learning as well as the top 10 percentile. This approach has been disasterous in american schools, because what actually happens is, classes become tailored to the lowest percentile of students to try and bring them along, and those who might have excelled are held back until a stage in their development where it is likely too late. In America, we call that "equality".
>>
>> In Europe (I have heard) or at least in some countries, exceptional children are noted and are put on a path of higher learning that the others are not. This would give mose high level school administrators in America caniption fits to even suggest this. We would have riots in our streets. I fear we are not long for the 1st world.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Thanks, Richmond!

This brings me to another thought I’ve been having. I’m retired now, but still doing education projects as a hobby. What I would really love to be involved in is an interest group whose goal is to create and distribute innovative education applications in livecode. I know that many of us are already doing that, and that there is a seldom used thread in the forum for education, which I suspect isn’t all that attractive for educators because there are so few postings.

Anyway, I’d be interested in anybody’s thoughts. Personally, I know that all IT is evolving. Anything that isn’t regularly nourished with updates, new ideas, new content, etc, will die and disappear, just like we mortals. I’d love to contribute to education resources that continue, in some form, after I can no longer participate. Some kind of mutual endeavor, perhaps with common frameworks, modern pedagogy, teachers and IT specialists involved, would be very rewarding to me.

Best,
Bill

> On Sep 18, 2017, at 9:44 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Wow: Bill . . . you have put your point so very well: that should be engraved on stone and tattooed onto every teacher's head!
>
> Thanks so much.
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 9/18/17 7:07 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>> Folks:
>> Because livecode is so relevant for education, I suppose this is a reasonable discussion for the users list. So, I will add another 2 cents.
>>
>> One of the most interesting ideas I’ve heard recently, in education, is the idea that it’s very important to emphasize the “struggle” to learn. If students can learn that the “struggle" to acquire knowledge and understanding is vital, normal, and will be rewarding, they will become better lifelong learners.
>>
>> As education tech folks, we try to make the content we want to present as clear, easy, and transparent as possible. In our effort, we may be reinforcing expectations that gaining knowledge should be easy. But, what is actually accomplished may be memorization and a shallow understanding of how existing knowledge can be used to explore and enhance new knowledge.
>>
>> Best,
>> Bill P
>>
>>> On Sep 18, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Reading through that article, I get the sense that he believes that people are not educated or intellegent because the system of education is wholly responsible for failing to do so. Intellegent people often make this miscalculation, that they believe intellegence is something that can be nurtured. I disagree.
>>>
>>> I think we can do a lot to maximize the mental health and growth of each individual child, but every child is different, and only a few will ever excel. Alan Kay seems like one of those few, and is frustrated that more people cannot be made to think like him. With all my experience with people, trying to teach them just to use the technology in front of them to good advantage, I have come to believe that this is a fools errand. Some people cannot learn much more, but most simply WILL NOT learn. They only absorb enough technology to get them by.
>>>
>>> I think it's a huge mistake to try and treat all children as though they are capable of learning as well as the top 10 percentile. This approach has been disasterous in american schools, because what actually happens is, classes become tailored to the lowest percentile of students to try and bring them along, and those who might have excelled are held back until a stage in their development where it is likely too late. In America, we call that "equality".
>>>
>>> In Europe (I have heard) or at least in some countries, exceptional children are noted and are put on a path of higher learning that the others are not. This would give mose high level school administrators in America caniption fits to even suggest this. We would have riots in our streets. I fear we are not long for the 1st world.
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

Tom Glod via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Tom Glod via use-livecode
On 09/18/2017 09:07 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:

> One of the most interesting ideas I’ve heard recently, in education, is the idea that it’s very important to emphasize the “struggle” to learn. If students can learn that the “struggle" to acquire knowledge and understanding is vital, normal, and will be rewarding, they will become better lifelong learners.

Exactly. I always emphasize that the best way to learn is by making
mistakes.

...or by trying to teach someone else... <g>

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]



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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Awesome! I'm always teaching others to make mistakes!

Bob S


> On Sep 18, 2017, at 16:00 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Exactly. I always emphasize that the best way to learn is by making mistakes.
>
> ...or by trying to teach someone else... <g>
>
> --
> Mark Wieder
> [hidden email]


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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Indeed: And I'm always teaching others BY making mistakes!

Richmond.

On 9/19/17 2:04 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

> Awesome! I'm always teaching others to make mistakes!
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Sep 18, 2017, at 16:00 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Exactly. I always emphasize that the best way to learn is by making mistakes.
>>
>> ...or by trying to teach someone else... <g>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Wieder
>> [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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