[OT] Alternative to Inkscape

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[OT] Alternative to Inkscape

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Include SVG-Edit and current versions of these editors:
https://www.sitepoint.com/6-free-web-based-svg-editors-compared/

I just keep wondering why nobody have forked Inkscape
and included the most requested feature: a plain simple
palette that translate page coordinates from bottomleft
to the topleft of the page.

For more than 10 years, designers have been asking
Inkscape developers that they should move the page
origin from bottomleft to topleft (as svg specification
requires). In fact, someone posted a palette that
translate the page origin coordinates from bottomleft
to topleft (without changing or breaking any other
internal code) but this was quickly shutdown by
project maintainers.

Probably this explains the glacial adoption pace
of Inkscape among designers and why SVG 2.0
specification have been stalled for years and face
the risk of not being approved with all features
requested (many of them already in use)

http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/is-svg-2-really-on-life-support

Here is the main reason:
"there is not enough svg content using those svg features"

While Macromedia and Adobe support pushed Flash content
presence to an incredible 29% (currently 6% among websites)

https://www.fastcompany.com/3049920/the-agonizingly-slow-decline-of-adobe-flash-player

https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/cp-flash/all/all

SVG is only now that is reaching 4.5%
https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/im-svg/all/all

That is what I call "The Reluctant Acceptance of SVG"

Maybe in the near future,
1) Inkscape developers could fulfill with more frequency
the most common and reasonable requests of their
own users.
2) SVG new features are used more frequently and
enough content is posted online using those features.
3) Better designed tools appear than allows to use these
new features without having to use so many workarounds
and acrobatics...
 (for example:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14684846/flattening-svg-matrix-transforms-in-inkscape
)

Al
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Re: [OT] Alternative to Inkscape

Tom Glod via use-livecode
Sadly, I have experienced this before with Open Source software. Devs can be much less open to new ideas or ways of doing things. As a result they lose a lot of their base, but if it costs them nothing they can afford it.

Bob S


> On Oct 4, 2017, at 13:30 , Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> For more than 10 years, designers have been asking
> Inkscape developers that they should move the page
> origin from bottomleft to topleft (as svg specification
> requires). In fact, someone posted a palette that
> translate the page origin coordinates from bottomleft
> to topleft (without changing or breaking any other
> internal code) but this was quickly shutdown by
> project maintainers.


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Re: [OT] Alternative to Inkscape

Tom Glod via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Tom Glod via use-livecode
Hi Al,

Did you try GIMP?

https://www.gimp.org

Will it do what you want it to do with SVG files?

Hope it helps!

Rick



> On Oct 4, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Include SVG-Edit and current versions of these editors:
> https://www.sitepoint.com/6-free-web-based-svg-editors-compared/
>
> I just keep wondering why nobody have forked Inkscape
> and included the most requested feature: a plain simple
> palette that translate page coordinates from bottomleft
> to the topleft of the page.
>
> For more than 10 years, designers have been asking
> Inkscape developers that they should move the page
> origin from bottomleft to topleft (as svg specification
> requires). In fact, someone posted a palette that
> translate the page origin coordinates from bottomleft
> to topleft (without changing or breaking any other
> internal code) but this was quickly shutdown by
> project maintainers.
>
> Probably this explains the glacial adoption pace
> of Inkscape among designers and why SVG 2.0
> specification have been stalled for years and face
> the risk of not being approved with all features
> requested (many of them already in use)
>
> http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/is-svg-2-really-on-life-support
>
> Here is the main reason:
> "there is not enough svg content using those svg features"
>
> While Macromedia and Adobe support pushed Flash content
> presence to an incredible 29% (currently 6% among websites)
>
> https://www.fastcompany.com/3049920/the-agonizingly-slow-decline-of-adobe-flash-player
>
> https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/cp-flash/all/all
>
> SVG is only now that is reaching 4.5%
> https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/im-svg/all/all
>
> That is what I call "The Reluctant Acceptance of SVG"
>
> Maybe in the near future,
> 1) Inkscape developers could fulfill with more frequency
> the most common and reasonable requests of their
> own users.
> 2) SVG new features are used more frequently and
> enough content is posted online using those features.
> 3) Better designed tools appear than allows to use these
> new features without having to use so many workarounds
> and acrobatics...
> (for example:
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14684846/flattening-svg-matrix-transforms-in-inkscape
> )
>
> Al
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: [OT] Alternative to Inkscape

Tom Glod via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Tom Glod via use-livecode
After reading again Bug Reports about Inkscape page origin, I noticed that
I was wrong.

That Bug Report have existed for more than 12 years so... read by yourself:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/170049
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/364036

Al


On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Alejandro Tejada <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Include SVG-Edit and current versions of these editors:
> https://www.sitepoint.com/6-free-web-based-svg-editors-compared/
>
> I just keep wondering why nobody have forked Inkscape
> and included the most requested feature: a plain simple
> palette that translate page coordinates from bottomleft
> to the topleft of the page.
>
> For more than 10 years, designers have been asking
> Inkscape developers that they should move the page
> origin from bottomleft to topleft (as svg specification
> requires). In fact, someone posted a palette that
> translate the page origin coordinates from bottomleft
> to topleft (without changing or breaking any other
> internal code) but this was quickly shutdown by
> project maintainers.
>
> Probably this explains the glacial adoption pace
> of Inkscape among designers and why SVG 2.0
> specification have been stalled for years and face
> the risk of not being approved with all features
> requested (many of them already in use)
>
> http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/is-svg-2-really-on-life-support
>
> Here is the main reason:
> "there is not enough svg content using those svg features"
>
> While Macromedia and Adobe support pushed Flash content
> presence to an incredible 29% (currently 6% among websites)
>
> https://www.fastcompany.com/3049920/the-agonizingly-slow-
> decline-of-adobe-flash-player
>
> https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/cp-flash/all/all
>
> SVG is only now that is reaching 4.5%
> https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/im-svg/all/all
>
> That is what I call "The Reluctant Acceptance of SVG"
>
> Maybe in the near future,
> 1) Inkscape developers could fulfill with more frequency
> the most common and reasonable requests of their
> own users.
> 2) SVG new features are used more frequently and
> enough content is posted online using those features.
> 3) Better designed tools appear than allows to use these
> new features without having to use so many workarounds
> and acrobatics...
>  (for example: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14684846/flattening-
> svg-matrix-transforms-in-inkscape )
>
> Al
>
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Re: [OT] Alternative to Inkscape

Tom Glod via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Tom Glod via use-livecode
Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > Sadly, I have experienced this before with Open Source software. Devs
 > can be much less open to new ideas or ways of doing things. As a
 > result they lose a lot of their base, but if it costs them nothing
 > they can afford it.

I suppose that could be said about many projects, even proprietary ones.
  How often have you submitted a feature request to Adobe or Apple and
seen it acted on in the next release?

I've met the lead dev for Inkscape at the SoCal Linux User Group.  He
takes out a booth there because he very much wants feedback.

The key to this particular issue lies in the details of the two reports
Alejandro linked to:

 > https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/170049
 > https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/364036

In summary, Inkscape predates its SVG import (by many years), and as
code bases go the original print-centric coordinate system (remember,
Postscript uses the same coordinate system Inkscape does) included a lot
of assumptions based around that coordinate system, and a few hard-coded
values.  All in all, changing it is non-trivial.

Also, there was some discussion in that thread about whether this is a
true bug or a feature request, because the software is working as
originally designed and simply flipping the coordinates would pose a
backward compatibility issue.

The best option would be user-definable coordinate systems, and that
would be a feature request.  And quite a bit of work.

As one of the devs in that thread wrote:

    If you think it's so easy to fix, know that we are more than happy
    to accept a patch from you. ;)

While it is a long-standing issue, we've all seen issues in other
software, both FOSS and proprietary, hang out longer.  These are often
things that may be important but perhaps to a relatively small
percentage of the software's audience.  I've used Inkscape for years but
never noticed this one until I read this thread.

The difference with open source is that if it's really holding you back
you can rally the resources to get it done yourself right now, something
that would be impossible with any proprietary code base.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com


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