[OT] Routerless Network?

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[OT] Routerless Network?

ScottR
Hi List:

Apologies for the OT question.  I have an XP system and an OSX Mac sitting
near each other that I'm wondering if I can network without using a router
-- I'd like to move some Rev files back and forth for testing.  (There is a
wireless network in the area but no card for the XP system, Mac only.)  I do
have an ethernet cable.  Are there any settings I can apply to either system
to make them see each other?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
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Re: [OT] Routerless Network?

Jim Ault
There is the 'old' way of using a cross-over ethernet cable.  This allows
the 2 computers to use that port to talk and listen.  price is about $20.
catch is that you are now using the port this way, so no internet access.

Google 'crossover ethernet cable' to see how it is wired.  Not many around
so it is very unlikely that the cable you have is crossover.

Once you use this technique, you would have to give each computer a static
IP address so they have one.  A router automatically assigns this when each
cpu starts up or is correctly connected so the router can see it.  This
makes sure that each computer has a unique address.

Another option, but rare, is a network drive, USB or FireWire, but if you
have one, it should work.

Hope this helps.  Someone else may know of a way.  Of course, a flash/key
chain drive could do in a pinch.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 5/9/06 9:08 AM, "Scott Rossi" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi List:
>
> Apologies for the OT question.  I have an XP system and an OSX Mac sitting
> near each other that I'm wondering if I can network without using a router
> -- I'd like to move some Rev files back and forth for testing.  (There is a
> wireless network in the area but no card for the XP system, Mac only.)  I do
> have an ethernet cable.  Are there any settings I can apply to either system
> to make them see each other?
>
> Thanks & Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: [hidden email]
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


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Re: [OT] Routerless Network?

Mark Talluto
In reply to this post by ScottR

On May 9, 2006, at 9:08 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Hi List:
>
> Apologies for the OT question.  I have an XP system and an OSX Mac  
> sitting
> near each other that I'm wondering if I can network without using a  
> router
> -- I'd like to move some Rev files back and forth for testing.  
> (There is a
> wireless network in the area but no card for the XP system, Mac  
> only.)  I do
> have an ethernet cable.  Are there any settings I can apply to  
> either system
> to make them see each other?

Hi Scott,

You need to make sure they are all on the same subnet.  I would use  
the following settings:

Mac IP: 192.168.0.3
Subnet: 255.255.255.0

Win IP: 192.168.0.4
Subnet: 255.255.255.0

They should see each other after that.


Mark Talluto
--
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com

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Re: [OT] Routerless Network?

Mark Talluto
In reply to this post by Jim Ault

On May 9, 2006, at 9:23 AM, Jim Ault wrote:

> Google 'crossover ethernet cable' to see how it is wired.  Not many  
> around
> so it is very unlikely that the cable you have is crossover.


All Macs for the last few years automatically crossover the  
connection if you use a standard ethernet cable.  Should not be a  
problem either way.  Making your own cables is very simple and cheap  
as another solution.


Mark Talluto
--
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com

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Re: [OT] Routerless Network?

William Marriott
In reply to this post by ScottR
Scott,

You can do it but it may be more time consuming than it's worth because of
the potential "gotchas."

First, not any Ethernet cable will do; you typically need to have a
"crossover" cable. Most modern routers and switches (hubs) auto-detect and
compensate for cables of either wiring flavor, but most Ethernet adapters on
PCs do not. An appropriate cable can cost $20.

The second gotcha is configuring the network on both machines. If the Mac is
currently working fine with the wireless network (you say there's one in the
area, but not whether you use it), it may be a hassle to undo those settings
and configure them for the PC-to-PC net you would create. Each computer will
need to be on the same subnet (e.g.: 255.255.255.0), and each will need to
have a static IP address. For example, 10.0.0.10 and 10.0.0.11.

While they are hooked up to each other, neither computer will have Internet
access unless the one machine has a second net connection and you set up
Internet Connection sharing. (Third gotcha.) Setting up ICS is fairly
involved.

On the other hand, good USB WiFi adapters can be had for under $30; I've
even seen them as low as $20. They do work with Airport hubs. I've found
these little guys can be extremely useful. If it's a choice between getting
the correct cable and getting a WiFi dongle, I'd go with the dongle.

Bill

Scott Rossi asked,
> Apologies for the OT question.  I have an XP system and an OSX Mac sitting
> near each other that I'm wondering if I can network without using a router
> [...]



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Re: [OT] Routerless Network?

David Vaughan
In reply to this post by ScottR
Scott

Take all the replies and wherever you see a negative comment ("need  
crossover cable" which costs $millions", "can not network whatever")  
cross it out. Select from one of the strategies (sharing with any  
handy ethernet cable, adding cheap wireless to the PC, using a USB,  
or Firewire drive; just use your iPod!) and follow the remaining  
positive instructions and it should be a piece of cake.

Search in www.apple.com/support/ for instructions if networking makes  
you nervous.

Using the networking ideas, you can connect from the Mac end to the  
PC or vice versa, depending on which it is more convenient to share  
while you work from the other.

Caveat: I assume your Mac was manufactured within about the last  
three to five years.

cheers
David
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Re: [OT] Routerless Network?

ScottR
Recently, David Vaughan wrote:

> Take all the replies and wherever you see a negative comment ("need
> crossover cable" which costs $millions", "can not network whatever")
> cross it out.

Heh, thanks David.  No worries -- I'm not thrown by "negative" comments;
I've learned to wait for a few responses from the list as there's a lot of
knowledge/talent here.

In fact, I found this document which made me pretty hopeful:
http://hacks.oreilly.com/pub/h/302#thread

But it's not working for me.  I'm connecting a Mac laptop to a Win desktop,
and while the Win box does indeed report an error if I assign the same IP
address to each system, neither system seems able to "see" the other with
unique IDs (Chris Bohnert mentioned pinging the Mac system from Windows to
check the connection and all I get is a series of timeouts).

So I may just have to break down and go for a wireless card.  I may play
around with it some more but am not sure what else to try.

Thanks to all for the suggestions and for putting up with the OT.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: [hidden email]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: [OT] Routerless Network?

Sivakatirswami
It's a hack, but if you run virtual PC on the Mac you might be able  
to set the other box as a share point?


On May 09, 2006, at 12:33 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, David Vaughan wrote:
>
>> Take all the replies and wherever you see a negative comment ("need
>> crossover cable" which costs $millions", "can not network whatever")
>> cross it out.
>
> Heh, thanks David.  No worries -- I'm not thrown by "negative"  
> comments;
> I've learned to wait for a few responses from the list as there's a  
> lot of
> knowledge/talent here.
>
> In fact, I found this document which made me pretty hopeful:
> http://hacks.oreilly.com/pub/h/302#thread
>
> But it's not working for me.  I'm connecting a Mac laptop to a Win  
> desktop,
> and while the Win box does indeed report an error if I assign the  
> same IP
> address to each system, neither system seems able to "see" the  
> other with
> unique IDs (Chris Bohnert mentioned pinging the Mac system from  
> Windows to
> check the connection and all I get is a series of timeouts).
>
> So I may just have to break down and go for a wireless card.  I may  
> play
> around with it some more but am not sure what else to try.
>
> Thanks to all for the suggestions and for putting up with the OT.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: [hidden email]
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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Re: [OT] Routerless Network?

Andre Garzia
MacOS X has built-in windows sharing no need for VPC for that...


On May 9, 2006, at 7:54 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> It's a hack, but if you run virtual PC on the Mac you might be able  
> to set the other box as a share point?
>
>
> On May 09, 2006, at 12:33 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>
>> Recently, David Vaughan wrote:
>>
>>> Take all the replies and wherever you see a negative comment ("need
>>> crossover cable" which costs $millions", "can not network whatever")
>>> cross it out.
>>
>> Heh, thanks David.  No worries -- I'm not thrown by "negative"  
>> comments;
>> I've learned to wait for a few responses from the list as there's  
>> a lot of
>> knowledge/talent here.
>>
>> In fact, I found this document which made me pretty hopeful:
>> http://hacks.oreilly.com/pub/h/302#thread
>>
>> But it's not working for me.  I'm connecting a Mac laptop to a Win  
>> desktop,
>> and while the Win box does indeed report an error if I assign the  
>> same IP
>> address to each system, neither system seems able to "see" the  
>> other with
>> unique IDs (Chris Bohnert mentioned pinging the Mac system from  
>> Windows to
>> check the connection and all I get is a series of timeouts).
>>
>> So I may just have to break down and go for a wireless card.  I  
>> may play
>> around with it some more but am not sure what else to try.
>>
>> Thanks to all for the suggestions and for putting up with the OT.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>> -----
>> E: [hidden email]
>> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [OT] Routerless Network?

xtalkprogrammer
In reply to this post by Sivakatirswami
Hello,

FYI, it is not necessary to use VPC for that. On the PC side, I have  
Client for MS Networks installed, together with the correct ethernet  
drivers. I have also a TCP/IP protocol defined for that Ethernet  
driver, with the correct IP number and subnet mask. Then I turned on  
file sharing and set the properties of an entire hard disk partition  
such as to share it with the local network.

On the Mac, I configured TCP/IP manually and turned on Windows sharing.

Best,

Mark

--

Economy-x-Talk
Consultancy and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Salery is the easiest way to get your own web store on-line: http://
www.salery.biz/salery.html



Op 10-mei-2006, om 0:54 heeft Sivakatirswami het volgende geschreven:

> It's a hack, but if you run virtual PC on the Mac you might be able  
> to set the other box as a share point?
>

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Kind regards,

Drs. Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consultancy and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
Facebook: http://facebook.com/LiveCode.Beginner
KvK: 50277553
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Playing Simultaneous Sounds?

Judy Perry
Hi,

I searched the use-list archive via Richard's page but can't come up with
what I think I remember reading, namely, that you can sorta, kinda,  using
players, play two or more sounds "simultaneously".

Is it so?  Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Kindest thanks,

Judy


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Re: Playing Simultaneous Sounds?

ScottR
Recently, Judy Perry wrote:

> I searched the use-list archive via Richard's page but can't come up with
> what I think I remember reading, namely, that you can sorta, kinda,  using
> players, play two or more sounds "simultaneously".
>
> Is it so?  Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Yes, use two or more players set to different filenames.  Or use an imported
audioclip and a player.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
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Re: Playing Simultaneous Sounds?

Phil Davis
Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Judy Perry wrote:
>
>
>>I searched the use-list archive via Richard's page but can't come up with
>>what I think I remember reading, namely, that you can sorta, kinda,  using
>>players, play two or more sounds "simultaneously".
>>
>>Is it so?  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>
>
> Yes, use two or more players set to different filenames.  Or use an imported
> audioclip and a player.

For some real excitement (?), you can add simultaneous speech synthesis
into the mix.

Then if you could just get the synthetic speaker to sing with the
player's song...

Phil Davis
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Re: [OT] Routerless Network?

Alex Tweedly
In reply to this post by ScottR
Scott Rossi wrote:

>Recently, David Vaughan wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Take all the replies and wherever you see a negative comment ("need
>>crossover cable" which costs $millions", "can not network whatever")
>>cross it out.
>>    
>>
>
>Heh, thanks David.  No worries -- I'm not thrown by "negative" comments;
>I've learned to wait for a few responses from the list as there's a lot of
>knowledge/talent here.
>
>In fact, I found this document which made me pretty hopeful:
>http://hacks.oreilly.com/pub/h/302#thread
>
>But it's not working for me.  I'm connecting a Mac laptop to a Win desktop,
>and while the Win box does indeed report an error if I assign the same IP
>address to each system, neither system seems able to "see" the other with
>unique IDs (Chris Bohnert mentioned pinging the Mac system from Windows to
>check the connection and all I get is a series of timeouts).
>
>  
>
So, just to be clear, are you saying that if you use the same address,
the Win box reports an error, but if you use different addresses, no
connection ?  Something like ....

Win :  IP : 192.168.1.1
 netmask : 255.255.255.0
Mac : IP : 192.168.1.1
 netmask : 255.255.255.0

gives an error message, but

Win :  IP : 192.168.1.1
 netmask : 255.255.255.0
Mac : IP : 192.168.1.2
 netmask : 255.255.255.0

give nothing but timeouts ?

Between those two cases, are you changing the IP addr on the Mac or the PC ?

Double check that you didn't set the netmask to 255.255.255.255 on one
of the systems by mistake.

As well as ping, try doing an   "arp -a" to check if each can see the
other IP address.
Just for fun,  do a "tracert -d" from each to the other   (may need to
experiment with the option on the Mac, I can't remember which letter it
uses for "no dns" lookups).

And do an   "ipconfig" as well on the Win box .... send any (or
preferably all) of the output (direct to me is OK) from those and I'll
take a look to see if there's anything unusual.
 


--
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net


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Re: [OT] Routerless Network?

David Vaughan
In reply to this post by xtalkprogrammer

On 10/05/2006, at 9:15, Mark Schonewille wrote:

>
> FYI, it is not necessary to use VPC for that. On the PC side, I  
> have Client for MS Networks installed, together with the correct  
> ethernet drivers. I have also a TCP/IP protocol defined for that  
> Ethernet driver, with the correct IP number and subnet mask. Then I  
> turned on file sharing and set the properties of an entire hard  
> disk partition such as to share it with the local network.
>
> On the Mac, I configured TCP/IP manually and turned on Windows  
> sharing.


Indeed, either should work, and Scott's O'Reilly reference shows the  
flexibility. Personally i would define the IP addresses (like Mark)  
rather than using self-assigned addresses, and would share the PC and  
connect from the Mac end. You do not have to share both. However,  
Scott's last post on his lack of success on something which should  
work readily leaves me at a bit of a loss to troubleshoot it remotely  
and without information on machines, versions, settings and so on.  
Probably quicker to use iPodNet or thumbDriveNet or connect the PC to  
the airport.

I was optimistic earlier when I said Macs "three to five" years old  
should do the auto-crossover trick. I think it might only have come  
in with the PB17 three years ago and then spread to later models.

regards
David
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Re: [OT] Routerless Network?

William Marriott
In reply to this post by David Vaughan
Unfortunately, these "ad hoc" networks are almost never straightforward.
Been there, done that. And the OP couldn't get it to work either. Not trying
to be negative, just trying to save people time.

David Vaughan wrote
> [...] follow the remaining  positive instructions and it should be a piece
> of cake.



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Re: Playing Simultaneous Sounds?

Judy Perry
In reply to this post by ScottR
Thanks, Scott.

Must they be external files then?

Thanks again!

Judy

On Tue, 9 May 2006, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Yes, use two or more players set to different filenames.  Or use an imported
> audioclip and a player.


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Re: Playing Simultaneous Sounds?

ScottR
Recently, Judy Perry wrote:

>> use two or more players set to different filenames.  Or use an imported
>> audioclip and a player.

> Must they be external files then?

Players reference external files.  However, if you need the sound files to
be internal, you could try importing audio-only files as videoClips.  I just
tried this on OSX and it works (not sure if this technique will work on
Windows without QT).  I used Trevor DeVore's technique of saving WAV files
out of QuickTimePro as MOV files.  In Rev I imported the MOVs as videoClips
(File>Import As Control>Video File...).

To control playback:

  play videoClip <clipName.mov>
  play stop videoClip <clipName.mov>

I even tried this, which works here:

  play videoClip <clipName.mov> looping

NOTE: For best results, it seems necessary to reference the clip by name, as
opposed to number (ie videoClip 1).  Playing and stopping a clip by number
works Ok, but stopping a looping clip seems to fail unless you reference the
clip by name.

Remember, if you import media into your stack, all those assets get loaded
into memory before you can use them -- you should be wary of this if you're
importing large MP3 files or similar.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
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Re: Playing Simultaneous Sounds?

Judy Perry
Hi Scott,

Thanks again! I will pass along.

I always encourage my students to embed such resources because I know that
they are using Windows and I will be grading things on Mac OS X, and I
know that they really are not paying attention to pathing differences
(despite giving them examples on the specialWhatever directories from Ken
Ray's Scripting Conference stack).  Part of the problem is that they just
don't have an OS X machine to test on (other than mine) and I don't have
OS 9, and only have WinXP under emulation, and even that not at the
moment.

I had thought of the audio-only movie file qua videoclip idea... might be
the best to use in this particular type of circumstance.

Thanks again!

Judy

On Tue, 9 May 2006, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Judy Perry wrote:
>
> >> use two or more players set to different filenames.  Or use an imported
> >> audioclip and a player.
>
> > Must they be external files then?
>
> Players reference external files.  However, if you need the sound files to
> be internal, you could try importing audio-only files as videoClips.  I just
> tried this on OSX and it works (not sure if this technique will work on
> Windows without QT).  I used Trevor DeVore's technique of saving WAV files
> out of QuickTimePro as MOV files.  In Rev I imported the MOVs as videoClips
> (File>Import As Control>Video File...).
>
> To control playback:
>
>   play videoClip <clipName.mov>
>   play stop videoClip <clipName.mov>
>
> I even tried this, which works here:
>
>   play videoClip <clipName.mov> looping
>
> NOTE: For best results, it seems necessary to reference the clip by name, as
> opposed to number (ie videoClip 1).  Playing and stopping a clip by number
> works Ok, but stopping a looping clip seems to fail unless you reference the
> clip by name.
>
> Remember, if you import media into your stack, all those assets get loaded
> into memory before you can use them -- you should be wary of this if you're
> importing large MP3 files or similar.

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Re: Playing Simultaneous Sounds?

Graham Samuel-4
In reply to this post by Judy Perry
On  Tue, 9 May 2006 16:23:27 -0700 (PDT),  Judy Perry  
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I searched the use-list archive via Richard's page but can't come  
> up with
> what I think I remember reading, namely, that you can sorta,  
> kinda,  using
> players, play two or more sounds "simultaneously".
>
> Is it so?  Can anyone point me in the right direction?

this from the RR documentation on 'play':

> You can play multiple movies at once by starting each one of them  
> with the play command.
>
> Movies cannot be played while any tool other than the Browse tool  
> is in use.
>
> If you start playing an audio clip when another one is playing, the  
> first audio clip is stopped, and a playStopped message is sent to  
> the current card. You cannot play two sounds at the same time, nor  
> can you queue a sound while another sound is playing.

In practice, if you stick your sounds into 2 or more players (i.e.  
make your sounds into movies with no visual element), then you can do  
something as simple as

start player "player1"
start player "player2"

etc

and  you can stop them individually as in

stop player "player2"

It seems to work using invisible players without controllers, if that  
helps.

I couldn't make it work with sounds other than in 'moov' format -  
they players didn't seem to want to take any notice of my wav sounds,  
for example - but I may have missed some trick there.

HTH

Graham


----------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France

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