Quality

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Quality

William Marriott
Hi everyone,

I had something of a quandary deciding how to title/post this note:

- I could have made a final post to my now-famous "Open Letter to Rev:
Quality is Job #1" thread
- I could have responded to the recent "Rev_rant" discussion (which I've
been itching to do for a week or so, now)
- I could have titled this "FREE REV UPDATE! AWESOME!"
- or simply, "Hooray!!"

The bottom line is... I think this is is a red-letter day for us as Rev
users and Runrev as a company.

       ~  ~  ~

Let me first highlight something that could have been missed in all the
exciting headlines:

* * * * * * * * * *
Revolution 2.7.5 will be a FREE UPDATE. If you had an active Revolution
maintenance plan as of February 1, 2006, or if you purchased any version of
Revolution 2.7, you will receive Revolution 2.7.5 AT NO CHARGE.
* * * * * * * * * *

What an important move on the part of Runrev. It shows not only that they've
been reading and listening to the feedback on the list, but also that they
have a lot of integrity and pride about the product. Not to mention the
highest regard for their customers. All of us who've been waiting for Linux
support, everyone who's had a crash, everyone who's scratched their heads
with weird behavior now gets the version of Rev we've been waiting and
hoping for, no matter whether their license expired in the last 9 months.

It's a big deal. It was one of the things I asked for in my posts, and I'm
delighted they agreed.

       ~  ~  ~

The second thing I want to point out is that this is a no-features release
TOTALLY driven by our feedback and bug reports. I can't think of many (if
any) other companies that have taken quite this approach before.

If you, like me, felt you were "wandering in the desert" or frustrated by
the impression that an esoteric feature was taking priority over some
aggravating problem... come in out of the cold and fret no more. I've had
every assurance -- and I believe them -- that Bugzilla will be what drives
this update.

So now is the time for everyone to make friends with Bugzilla:

http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase

Dust off your old bugs, file new reports, and vote for the ones filed by
others that affect you most. We ESPECIALLY need to transform all the
"anybody else see this happening?" chat on the list into actual,
full-fledged bug reports that can be tracked and resolved. So I hope you'll
go through your prior posts right now and begin transforming them into
Bugzilla bugs as appropriate.

You'll remember that I was pretty skeptical about the value of Bugzilla,
given its Byzantine interface, the time investment it took to file a decent
report, and the assumption the reports didn't "go" anywhere. Well, Bugzilla
still is an ugly, drooling beast, but I *AM* now convinced that filing
reports will be worth every minute of effort. I am confident the reports
will be read and acted upon. So, let's take Runrev up on their pledge and
channel our energies into documenting the problems we've found.

       ~  ~  ~

Finally, those of you who've been around a while know I've been something of
a gadfly on the list. I "tell it like it is" and I don't pull any punches.

I'm hoping that Runrev's selection of me to lead the community in defining
this release demonstrates to everyone Runrev's credibility. When they say
they intend to make 2.7.5 the best-ever version of Rev, eliminate the bugs,
and make it a joy to use... I believe them.

       ~  ~  ~

The "Open Community Beta" won't last forever. We need to pound on it "early
and often." So please don't delay. Go to

http://support.runrev.com/beta_test.php

right away and sign up for the beta RIGHT NOW. When your key code and
download links arrive (very likely, Monday) please download and throw your
best punches.

And please feel free to send me your comments... either at my personal
address or my new email: bill.marriott (at) runrev.com




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Re: Quality

mwieder
Bill-

Friday, November 10, 2006, 3:35:19 PM, you wrote:

> So now is the time for everyone to make friends with Bugzilla:

> http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase

Or better yet, RevZilla...

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/RevZilla2.htm

--
-Mark Wieder
 [hidden email]

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 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftware@gmail.com
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Re: Quality

William Marriott
Yes, Revzilla is beautiful! :) Perhaps an attractive candidate for inclusion
within Rev itself?

But, I suppose that it's good to be able to submit bugs via web page
(Revzilla would depend on Rev working).

Mark Wieder wrote
> Or better yet, RevZilla...
>
> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/RevZilla2.htm



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RE: Quality

MisterX
In reply to this post by William Marriott
Way to go Bill!

 
>
> The second thing I want to point out is that this is a
> no-features release TOTALLY driven by our feedback and bug
> reports. I can't think of many (if
> any) other companies that have taken quite this approach before.

If any, most enterprise PC products (which I work with) do this even for 2
or 3 year old licensed products.

But im glad this is finally happening in Rev's world.

> If you, like me, felt you were "wandering in the desert" or
> frustrated by the impression that an esoteric feature was
> taking priority over some aggravating problem... come in out
> of the cold and fret no more. I've had every assurance -- and
> I believe them -- that Bugzilla will be what drives this update.



> So now is the time for everyone to make friends with Bugzilla:
>
> http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase
>
> Dust off your old bugs, file new reports, and vote for the
> ones filed by others that affect you most. We ESPECIALLY need
> to transform all the "anybody else see this happening?" chat
> on the list into actual, full-fledged bug reports that can be
> tracked and resolved. So I hope you'll go through your prior
> posts right now and begin transforming them into Bugzilla
> bugs as appropriate.

Problem is that 5 votes max per bug for a PC problem innundated
by Mac votes on other issues will not be concequential at the
end of the day... And any user can only vote what? 20 issues
to the max? Assuming he hasn't voted for other bugzillas...

> You'll remember that I was pretty skeptical about the value
> of Bugzilla, given its Byzantine interface, the time
> investment it took to file a decent report, and the
> assumption the reports didn't "go" anywhere. Well, Bugzilla
> still is an ugly, drooling beast, but I *AM* now convinced
> that filing reports will be worth every minute of effort. I
> am confident the reports will be read and acted upon. So,
> let's take Runrev up on their pledge and channel our energies
> into documenting the problems we've found.

Actually, I met another manufacturer's bugzilla thing... It's a
6 page form per bug entry system. If you don't get it right in
the first page, you can't see the right stuff in the second page!

And my first bug entry took 3 hours in total because we have to
the HW's serial number in the right location etc... Hell on the
web! Bugzilla in comparison is Mac-simple!!!

> Finally, those of you who've been around a while know I've
> been something of a gadfly on the list. I "tell it like it
> is" and I don't pull any punches.

welcome to the fly-in-the-soup club ;)

> I'm hoping that Runrev's selection of me to lead the
> community in defining this release demonstrates to everyone
> Runrev's credibility. When they say they intend to make 2.7.5
> the best-ever version of Rev, eliminate the bugs, and make it
> a joy to use... I believe them.

can't wait to see how far this goes!

> The "Open Community Beta" won't last forever. We need to
> pound on it "early and often." So please don't delay. Go to
>
> http://support.runrev.com/beta_test.php
>
> right away and sign up for the beta RIGHT NOW. When your key
> code and download links arrive (very likely, Monday) please
> download and throw your best punches.

Here's an abdomen punch: Unix/Solaris support is missing!?!

cheers
Xavier

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Re: Quality

Judy Perry
In reply to this post by William Marriott
I like that idea!

The only downside I can see is that dolts such as myself may feel free to
flood RevZilla with "bugs" that are really stupid user errors (which is
why even when I was having wierd font problems, I never BZ'd it because I
was fairly certain it just HAD to be something stupid that I was doing).

Judy

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Bill Marriott wrote:

> Yes, Revzilla is beautiful! :) Perhaps an attractive candidate for inclusion
> within Rev itself?
>
> But, I suppose that it's good to be able to submit bugs via web page
> (Revzilla would depend on Rev working).
>
> Mark Wieder wrote
> > Or better yet, RevZilla...
> >
> > http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/RevZilla2.htm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
'

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RE: Quality

Judy Perry
In reply to this post by MisterX
Well, you know,

even though I mentioned  the plight of the poor Linux/Unix/*nix user, I
suspect that some of the problems experienced or features nonexistent on
that platform may well be beyone Rev's control and lie more with the OS.

FWIW...  Let me know please if I am wrong about this so that I'll have a
better idea what to tell the odd *nix user I have next semester in the Rev
class.

Judy

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006, MisterX wrote:

> Way to go Bill!
>
>
> >
> > The second thing I want to point out is that this is a
> > no-features release TOTALLY driven by our feedback and bug
> > reports. I can't think of many (if
> > any) other companies that have taken quite this approach before.
>
> If any, most enterprise PC products (which I work with) do this even for 2
> or 3 year old licensed products.
>
> But im glad this is finally happening in Rev's world.
>
> > If you, like me, felt you were "wandering in the desert" or
> > frustrated by the impression that an esoteric feature was
> > taking priority over some aggravating problem... come in out
> > of the cold and fret no more. I've had every assurance -- and
> > I believe them -- that Bugzilla will be what drives this update.
>
>
>
> > So now is the time for everyone to make friends with Bugzilla:
> >
> > http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase
> >
> > Dust off your old bugs, file new reports, and vote for the
> > ones filed by others that affect you most. We ESPECIALLY need
> > to transform all the "anybody else see this happening?" chat
> > on the list into actual, full-fledged bug reports that can be
> > tracked and resolved. So I hope you'll go through your prior
> > posts right now and begin transforming them into Bugzilla
> > bugs as appropriate.
>
> Problem is that 5 votes max per bug for a PC problem innundated
> by Mac votes on other issues will not be concequential at the
> end of the day... And any user can only vote what? 20 issues
> to the max? Assuming he hasn't voted for other bugzillas...
>
> > You'll remember that I was pretty skeptical about the value
> > of Bugzilla, given its Byzantine interface, the time
> > investment it took to file a decent report, and the
> > assumption the reports didn't "go" anywhere. Well, Bugzilla
> > still is an ugly, drooling beast, but I *AM* now convinced
> > that filing reports will be worth every minute of effort. I
> > am confident the reports will be read and acted upon. So,
> > let's take Runrev up on their pledge and channel our energies
> > into documenting the problems we've found.
>
> Actually, I met another manufacturer's bugzilla thing... It's a
> 6 page form per bug entry system. If you don't get it right in
> the first page, you can't see the right stuff in the second page!
>
> And my first bug entry took 3 hours in total because we have to
> the HW's serial number in the right location etc... Hell on the
> web! Bugzilla in comparison is Mac-simple!!!
>
> > Finally, those of you who've been around a while know I've
> > been something of a gadfly on the list. I "tell it like it
> > is" and I don't pull any punches.
>
> welcome to the fly-in-the-soup club ;)
>
> > I'm hoping that Runrev's selection of me to lead the
> > community in defining this release demonstrates to everyone
> > Runrev's credibility. When they say they intend to make 2.7.5
> > the best-ever version of Rev, eliminate the bugs, and make it
> > a joy to use... I believe them.
>
> can't wait to see how far this goes!
>
> > The "Open Community Beta" won't last forever. We need to
> > pound on it "early and often." So please don't delay. Go to
> >
> > http://support.runrev.com/beta_test.php
> >
> > right away and sign up for the beta RIGHT NOW. When your key
> > code and download links arrive (very likely, Monday) please
> > download and throw your best punches.
>
> Here's an abdomen punch: Unix/Solaris support is missing!?!
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

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RE: Quality

MisterX
there's lots of unix apps out there. While java is more native
to sun, there's lots of jobs to grab in that platform from
server apps to administration control and management or
reporting tools...

I know it's not multimedia as you would have expected but the
down to business applications arent always needing fancy
features, just sturdy operations and a nice little GUI...

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Judy Perry
> Sent: Saturday, 11 November, 2006 06:20
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: RE: Quality
>
> Well, you know,
>
> even though I mentioned  the plight of the poor
> Linux/Unix/*nix user, I suspect that some of the problems
> experienced or features nonexistent on that platform may well
> be beyone Rev's control and lie more with the OS.
>
> FWIW...  Let me know please if I am wrong about this so that
> I'll have a better idea what to tell the odd *nix user I have
> next semester in the Rev class.
>
> Judy
>
> On Sat, 11 Nov 2006, MisterX wrote:
>
> > Way to go Bill!
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The second thing I want to point out is that this is a
> no-features
> > > release TOTALLY driven by our feedback and bug reports. I can't
> > > think of many (if
> > > any) other companies that have taken quite this approach before.
> >
> > If any, most enterprise PC products (which I work with) do
> this even
> > for 2 or 3 year old licensed products.
> >
> > But im glad this is finally happening in Rev's world.
> >
> > > If you, like me, felt you were "wandering in the desert" or
> > > frustrated by the impression that an esoteric feature was taking
> > > priority over some aggravating problem... come in out of the cold
> > > and fret no more. I've had every assurance -- and I
> believe them --
> > > that Bugzilla will be what drives this update.
> >
> >
> >
> > > So now is the time for everyone to make friends with Bugzilla:
> > >
> > > http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase
> > >
> > > Dust off your old bugs, file new reports, and vote for the ones
> > > filed by others that affect you most. We ESPECIALLY need to
> > > transform all the "anybody else see this happening?" chat on the
> > > list into actual, full-fledged bug reports that can be
> tracked and
> > > resolved. So I hope you'll go through your prior posts
> right now and
> > > begin transforming them into Bugzilla bugs as appropriate.
> >
> > Problem is that 5 votes max per bug for a PC problem
> innundated by Mac
> > votes on other issues will not be concequential at the end of the
> > day... And any user can only vote what? 20 issues to the
> max? Assuming
> > he hasn't voted for other bugzillas...
> >
> > > You'll remember that I was pretty skeptical about the value of
> > > Bugzilla, given its Byzantine interface, the time
> investment it took
> > > to file a decent report, and the assumption the reports
> didn't "go"
> > > anywhere. Well, Bugzilla still is an ugly, drooling beast, but I
> > > *AM* now convinced that filing reports will be worth
> every minute of
> > > effort. I am confident the reports will be read and acted
> upon. So,
> > > let's take Runrev up on their pledge and channel our
> energies into
> > > documenting the problems we've found.
> >
> > Actually, I met another manufacturer's bugzilla thing... It's a
> > 6 page form per bug entry system. If you don't get it right in the
> > first page, you can't see the right stuff in the second page!
> >
> > And my first bug entry took 3 hours in total because we have to the
> > HW's serial number in the right location etc... Hell on the web!
> > Bugzilla in comparison is Mac-simple!!!
> >
> > > Finally, those of you who've been around a while know I've been
> > > something of a gadfly on the list. I "tell it like it is" and I
> > > don't pull any punches.
> >
> > welcome to the fly-in-the-soup club ;)
> >
> > > I'm hoping that Runrev's selection of me to lead the community in
> > > defining this release demonstrates to everyone Runrev's
> credibility.
> > > When they say they intend to make 2.7.5 the best-ever version of
> > > Rev, eliminate the bugs, and make it a joy to use... I
> believe them.
> >
> > can't wait to see how far this goes!
> >
> > > The "Open Community Beta" won't last forever. We need to
> pound on it
> > > "early and often." So please don't delay. Go to
> > >
> > > http://support.runrev.com/beta_test.php
> > >
> > > right away and sign up for the beta RIGHT NOW. When your key code
> > > and download links arrive (very likely, Monday) please
> download and
> > > throw your best punches.
> >
> > Here's an abdomen punch: Unix/Solaris support is missing!?!
> >
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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Re: Quality

Ken Ray
In reply to this post by William Marriott
On 11/10/06 10:24 PM, "Bill Marriott" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, Revzilla is beautiful! :) Perhaps an attractive candidate for inclusion
> within Rev itself?

Thanks, Bill! I would love for it to be included with Rev itself!

RevZilla executes everything using URLs as if it was the browser itself. The
only thing I can't seem to be able to replicate is doing file attachments to
bugs (which is currently done on the web via the FileUpload form object).
Does anyone know how I might be able to do this from Rev?

> But, I suppose that it's good to be able to submit bugs via web page
> (Revzilla would depend on Rev working).

True (although I have a standalone version of RevZilla if people want it...)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [hidden email]


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Re: Quality

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by William Marriott
Bill Marriott wrote:
> Yes, Revzilla is beautiful! :) Perhaps an attractive candidate for inclusion
> within Rev itself?

Oh indeed it would be, for at least two reasons:

- It's a simpler, friendlier way to post to BZ,
   integrated right into the workspace you're already in.

- It's a great example for folks to play with as they
   learn Rev, a custom Internet app that provides greater
   utility and usability than is possible in a browser,
   once of Rev's sweet spots.


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
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Re: Quality

Dave Cragg
In reply to this post by Ken Ray

On 11 Nov 2006, at 08:41, Ken Ray wrote:

>
> RevZilla executes everything using URLs as if it was the browser  
> itself. The
> only thing I can't seem to be able to replicate is doing file  
> attachments to
> bugs (which is currently done on the web via the FileUpload form  
> object).
> Does anyone know how I might be able to do this from Rev?

If it uses multipart/formatdata, then there is support for this in  
libUrl. I don't have time right now, but I'll try and take a look later.

Cheers
Dave
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Re: Quality

Dave Cragg

On 11 Nov 2006, at 12:39, Dave Cragg wrote:

>
> On 11 Nov 2006, at 08:41, Ken Ray wrote:
>
>>
>> RevZilla executes everything using URLs as if it was the browser  
>> itself. The
>> only thing I can't seem to be able to replicate is doing file  
>> attachments to
>> bugs (which is currently done on the web via the FileUpload form  
>> object).
>> Does anyone know how I might be able to do this from Rev?
>
> If it uses multipart/formatdata, then there is support for this in  
> libUrl. I don't have time right now, but I'll try and take a look  
> later.


That should be multipart/formdata. I took a quick look at the  
Bugzilla page and it looks as though it does. Have to rush now.

Cheers
Dave
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Re: Quality

Stephen Barncard
In reply to this post by Ken Ray
I prefer using the standalone version as it wouldn't be always groovy
to submit bugs from the environment that might have potential bugs
itself....

Very useful utility, Ken.

sqb

>
>>  But, I suppose that it's good to be able to submit bugs via web page
>>  (Revzilla would depend on Rev working).
>
>True (although I have a standalone version of RevZilla if people want it...)
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
>Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>Email: [hidden email]

--
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -
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Re: Quality

Ken Ray
On 11/11/06 9:28 AM, "Stephen Barncard" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I prefer using the standalone version as it wouldn't be always groovy
> to submit bugs from the environment that might have potential bugs
> itself....
>
> Very useful utility, Ken.

Thanks, Stephen... I forget - do you already *have* the standalone version,
or do you want me to send you one?


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [hidden email]

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Re: Quality

Ken Ray
In reply to this post by Dave Cragg
On 11/11/06 6:55 AM, "Dave Cragg" <[hidden email]> wrote:


> That should be multipart/formdata. I took a quick look at the
> Bugzilla page and it looks as though it does. Have to rush now.

OK, when you get back - email me offlist and we can talk about how to do
this...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [hidden email]

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