Quartam Reports, day late, dime short

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Quartam Reports, day late, dime short

Paul Looney-2
Jan,
     I don't mean to be disrespectful but you have delivered the frosting
without the cake.

     Quartam Reports does a lot of things we don't need:
- data fields using everyday Transcript expressions
- data groups with separate header and footer
- flexible formatting options
- aggregate functions without a line of code
- support for printing conditions, color and inks
- simplified printing commands for stacks, database
cursors and automated queries
- an advanced callback architecture that lets you
combine data from multiple sources

     and does not deliver what we do need:
- the ability to take information stored in a Revolution stack and print it
in standard business format.

     Did anyone actually ask for the Quartam feature set? Did anyone beta
test QR?

     You always tend to dismiss 9 to 5 Reports, but the fact is "they got it
right".   Reports with HyperCard is a powerful business tool. That's why I
invested the time in showing it to you, explaining what it meant to my business
users, urging you to incorporate its basic functionality. We have all waited a
long time for a Revolution solution. Based on missed deadlines to date, I am
not optimistic about QR v 1.1 shipping in any sort of timely manner ;-)  

     I am extremely disappointed.
Paul Looney

PS Are you saying definitively that v 1.1, if it ever ships, WILL support
scrolling fields - and be a free upgrade?
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Re: Quartam Reports, day late, dime short

Brian Yennie
Paul,

Saying you don't mean to be disrespectful doesn't make it so. Flaming
Jan repeatedly on-list immediately after a product release is quite
disrespectful.

Here's a suggestion. Make a feature request. Buy a copy of Quartam to
support development. See if lots of other Rev users also want the
feature. Watch it get implemented.

Please be finished with the trite remarks about frosting on cakes,
missed deadlines and your individual needs, and try a professional
approach. Otherwise you are more than likely just going to be tuned
out.

- Brian

> Jan,
>      I don't mean to be disrespectful but you have delivered the
> frosting
> without the cake.
>
>      Quartam Reports does a lot of things we don't need:
> - data fields using everyday Transcript expressions
> - data groups with separate header and footer
> - flexible formatting options
> - aggregate functions without a line of code
> - support for printing conditions, color and inks
> - simplified printing commands for stacks, database
> cursors and automated queries
> - an advanced callback architecture that lets you
> combine data from multiple sources
>
>      and does not deliver what we do need:
> - the ability to take information stored in a Revolution stack and
> print it
> in standard business format.
>
>      Did anyone actually ask for the Quartam feature set? Did anyone
> beta
> test QR?
>
>      You always tend to dismiss 9 to 5 Reports, but the fact is "they
> got it
> right".   Reports with HyperCard is a powerful business tool. That's
> why I
> invested the time in showing it to you, explaining what it meant to my
> business
> users, urging you to incorporate its basic functionality. We have all
> waited a
> long time for a Revolution solution. Based on missed deadlines to
> date, I am
> not optimistic about QR v 1.1 shipping in any sort of timely manner ;-)
>
>      I am extremely disappointed.
> Paul Looney
>
> PS Are you saying definitively that v 1.1, if it ever ships, WILL
> support
> scrolling fields - and be a free upgrade?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

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Re: Quartam Reports, day late, dime short - lots of hard work

Marian Petrides, MD
I can't help thinking the same thing.  Especially in this group, we  
should all have some sense of how much work Jan has put into Quartam  
and show a little respect for that work.  My 2 cents.

Marian

On Jul 14, 2005, at 9:58 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:
>
> Saying you don't mean to be disrespectful doesn't make it so.  
> Flaming Jan repeatedly on-list immediately after a product release  
> is quite disrespectful.

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Re: Quartam Reports, day late, dime short

Ken Ray
In reply to this post by Paul Looney-2
On 7/14/05 9:44 PM, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Paul,
 
>      and does not deliver what we do need:
> - the ability to take information stored in a Revolution stack and print it
> in standard business format.

That's not true... in fact, the sample stack shows printing a basic report
from Revolution fields (see "Simple Reports/Printing Stacks"). Now it may
not do scrolling fields, but it certainly does "take information stored in a
Revolution stack and print it in standard business format."

>      Did anyone actually ask for the Quartam feature set? Did anyone beta
> test QR?

Of course! It's been in beta for a number of months, and there have been
dozens of testers (see
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/quartam_reports_public_beta/) - in fact, I'm
very surprised that with all your comments about needing a good report
writer, you weren't a tester or involved with the testing (at least I don't
see you listed as a member at the public beta site).

So please don't imply that it "does not deliver what *we* need" when it
actually doesn't deliver what *you* need.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [hidden email]


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Re: Quartam Reports, day late, dime short

Jan Schenkel
In reply to this post by Paul Looney-2
--- [hidden email] wrote:

> Jan,
>      I don't mean to be disrespectful but you have
> delivered the frosting
> without the cake.
>
>      Quartam Reports does a lot of things we don't
> need:
> - data fields using everyday Transcript expressions
> - data groups with separate header and footer
> - flexible formatting options
> - aggregate functions without a line of code
> - support for printing conditions, color and inks
> - simplified printing commands for stacks, database
> cursors and automated queries
> - an advanced callback architecture that lets you
> combine data from multiple sources
>
>      and does not deliver what we do need:
> - the ability to take information stored in a
> Revolution stack and print it
> in standard business format.
>
>      Did anyone actually ask for the Quartam feature
> set? Did anyone beta
> test QR?
>
>      You always tend to dismiss 9 to 5 Reports, but
> the fact is "they got it
> right".   Reports with HyperCard is a powerful
> business tool. That's why I
> invested the time in showing it to you, explaining
> what it meant to my business
> users, urging you to incorporate its basic
> functionality. We have all waited a
> long time for a Revolution solution. Based on missed
> deadlines to date, I am
> not optimistic about QR v 1.1 shipping in any sort
> of timely manner ;-)  
>
>      I am extremely disappointed.
> Paul Looney
>
> PS Are you saying definitively that v 1.1, if it
> ever ships, WILL support
> scrolling fields - and be a free upgrade?
>

Hi Paul,

As stated in my previous email, version 1.0, when it
ships, WILL support scrolling fields - and be a free
upgrade.

I meant no disrespect towards 9-to-5 Reports: it is a
tremendous tool that made HyperCard a viable solution
for building business applications.

But there are more ways to store data than in stacks.
There are databases, xml-files and all the other
places that I mentioned before. I felt these were
important itms to integrate with.

Incidentally, you can easily take data from a stack
and print it in a report. A simplified command for
this allows you to script a printing button:
--
  qrtReports_PrintReportForStack \
     <layout filepath>,<stack name>,<preview flag>
--

And then the report printing library will do the heavy
lifting by itself, going through your stack one card
at a time, and filling the report.
An optional fourth parameter lets you specify a range:
all (default), marked, unmarked or an MS-Word style
range (think "1-7,9,14" to print the data on cards 1
through 7, card 9 and card 14)

Quartam Reports was in public beta from the end of
April, and while I primarily looked at what I expected
from a report tool, I did ask for feedback from public
and private beta testers.
They have provided me with ideas for years to come.
But while scrolling fields are high on every wish
list, all you need to print reports is there, and
more.

I have most certainly not forgotten the great demo you
showed me at MacWorld last year. But I can't help but
be reminded of the paradox of software development:
users want it shipped yesterday, packing features they
haven't even thought they needed tomorrow, while never
needing an upgrade.
Now there's a challenge for a developer -- maybe I
should get Jacque to send me a beta of her time warp
stacks ;-)

Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

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Re: Quartam Reports, day late, dime short

Jon-3
In reply to this post by Brian Yennie
Brian:

I know nothing about this situation, other than what I read in the past
day or two, but it seems to me that, tone aside, some of what Paul is
saying IS professional.  He explained to Jan specifically what his
customers needed, and hoped that Jan had listened.  As to "trite remarks
about ... missed deadlines", I'm not so sure that such remarks, if
they're true, are trite.  Explaining to the rest of us that a particular
developer may not meet announced deadlines, while depressing, is
actually useful to "professional" programmers who need to plan their
schedules carefully.

I know nothing about Jan or the product, but sometimes the knee jerk
reaction on this list is "if you don't have something nice to say, don't
say anything".  I'm not sure that is really in anyone's best interest.

That said, I too hope that this product does well.

Jon


Brian Yennie wrote:

> Paul,
>
> Saying you don't mean to be disrespectful doesn't make it so. Flaming
> Jan repeatedly on-list immediately after a product release is quite
> disrespectful.
>
> Here's a suggestion. Make a feature request. Buy a copy of Quartam to
> support development. See if lots of other Rev users also want the
> feature. Watch it get implemented.
>
> Please be finished with the trite remarks about frosting on cakes,
> missed deadlines and your individual needs, and try a professional
> approach. Otherwise you are more than likely just going to be tuned out.
>
> - Brian
>
>> Jan,
>>      I don't mean to be disrespectful but you have delivered the
>> frosting
>> without the cake.
>>
>>      Quartam Reports does a lot of things we don't need:
>> - data fields using everyday Transcript expressions
>> - data groups with separate header and footer
>> - flexible formatting options
>> - aggregate functions without a line of code
>> - support for printing conditions, color and inks
>> - simplified printing commands for stacks, database
>> cursors and automated queries
>> - an advanced callback architecture that lets you
>> combine data from multiple sources
>>
>>      and does not deliver what we do need:
>> - the ability to take information stored in a Revolution stack and
>> print it
>> in standard business format.
>>
>>      Did anyone actually ask for the Quartam feature set? Did anyone
>> beta
>> test QR?
>>
>>      You always tend to dismiss 9 to 5 Reports, but the fact is "they
>> got it
>> right".   Reports with HyperCard is a powerful business tool. That's
>> why I
>> invested the time in showing it to you, explaining what it meant to
>> my business
>> users, urging you to incorporate its basic functionality. We have all
>> waited a
>> long time for a Revolution solution. Based on missed deadlines to
>> date, I am
>> not optimistic about QR v 1.1 shipping in any sort of timely manner ;-)
>>
>>      I am extremely disappointed.
>> Paul Looney
>>
>> PS Are you saying definitively that v 1.1, if it ever ships, WILL
>> support
>> scrolling fields - and be a free upgrade?
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
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RE: Quartam Reports, day late, dime short

Lynch, Jonathan
In reply to this post by Paul Looney-2
Hi Jan...

If you need a script for properly printing a scrolling field, I have
such a thing. I'd be happy to share it with you, if it would help you.
It probably would not be too difficult to incorporate into your larger
printing scripts.

Cheers,

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jan
Schenkel
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 1:39 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Quartam Reports, day late, dime short

--- [hidden email] wrote:

> Jan,
>      I don't mean to be disrespectful but you have
> delivered the frosting
> without the cake.
>
>      Quartam Reports does a lot of things we don't
> need:
> - data fields using everyday Transcript expressions
> - data groups with separate header and footer
> - flexible formatting options
> - aggregate functions without a line of code
> - support for printing conditions, color and inks
> - simplified printing commands for stacks, database
> cursors and automated queries
> - an advanced callback architecture that lets you
> combine data from multiple sources
>
>      and does not deliver what we do need:
> - the ability to take information stored in a
> Revolution stack and print it
> in standard business format.
>
>      Did anyone actually ask for the Quartam feature
> set? Did anyone beta
> test QR?
>
>      You always tend to dismiss 9 to 5 Reports, but
> the fact is "they got it
> right".   Reports with HyperCard is a powerful
> business tool. That's why I
> invested the time in showing it to you, explaining
> what it meant to my business
> users, urging you to incorporate its basic
> functionality. We have all waited a
> long time for a Revolution solution. Based on missed
> deadlines to date, I am
> not optimistic about QR v 1.1 shipping in any sort
> of timely manner ;-)  
>
>      I am extremely disappointed.
> Paul Looney
>
> PS Are you saying definitively that v 1.1, if it
> ever ships, WILL support
> scrolling fields - and be a free upgrade?
>

Hi Paul,

As stated in my previous email, version 1.0, when it
ships, WILL support scrolling fields - and be a free
upgrade.

I meant no disrespect towards 9-to-5 Reports: it is a
tremendous tool that made HyperCard a viable solution
for building business applications.

But there are more ways to store data than in stacks.
There are databases, xml-files and all the other
places that I mentioned before. I felt these were
important itms to integrate with.

Incidentally, you can easily take data from a stack
and print it in a report. A simplified command for
this allows you to script a printing button:
--
  qrtReports_PrintReportForStack \
     <layout filepath>,<stack name>,<preview flag>
--

And then the report printing library will do the heavy
lifting by itself, going through your stack one card
at a time, and filling the report.
An optional fourth parameter lets you specify a range:
all (default), marked, unmarked or an MS-Word style
range (think "1-7,9,14" to print the data on cards 1
through 7, card 9 and card 14)

Quartam Reports was in public beta from the end of
April, and while I primarily looked at what I expected
from a report tool, I did ask for feedback from public
and private beta testers.
They have provided me with ideas for years to come.
But while scrolling fields are high on every wish
list, all you need to print reports is there, and
more.

I have most certainly not forgotten the great demo you
showed me at MacWorld last year. But I can't help but
be reminded of the paradox of software development:
users want it shipped yesterday, packing features they
haven't even thought they needed tomorrow, while never
needing an upgrade.
Now there's a challenge for a developer -- maybe I
should get Jacque to send me a beta of her time warp
stacks ;-)

Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same
time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

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Re: Quartam Reports, day late, dime short

Björnke von Gierke
In reply to this post by Jon-3

On Jul 15 2005, at 13:09, Jon wrote:

> I know nothing about Jan or the product, but sometimes the knee jerk
> reaction on this list is "if you don't have something nice to say,
> don't say anything".  I'm not sure that is really in anyone's best
> interest.

Hi Jon

I think that people object not to the content of the raised comments,
but to the tone of them (at least that was my reaction). Simply saying
"Why didn't you incorporate feature..." instead of "I demand a
feature..." goes a long way towards a nice and cool atmosphere on a
list.

greetings
Björnke


--

http://contest.wecode.org
Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest!
sponsors:
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Re: Quartam Reports, day late, dime short

Jon-3
Can't argue with that!

Björnke von Gierke wrote:

>
> On Jul 15 2005, at 13:09, Jon wrote:
>
>> I know nothing about Jan or the product, but sometimes the knee jerk
>> reaction on this list is "if you don't have something nice to say,
>> don't say anything".  I'm not sure that is really in anyone's best
>> interest.
>
>
> Hi Jon
>
> I think that people object not to the content of the raised comments,
> but to the tone of them (at least that was my reaction). Simply saying
> "Why didn't you incorporate feature..." instead of "I demand a
> feature..." goes a long way towards a nice and cool atmosphere on a list.
>
> greetings
> Björnke
>
>
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Re: Quartam Reports, day late, dime short

Brian Yennie
In reply to this post by Jon-3
Jon,

> I know nothing about this situation, other than what I read in the
> past day or two, but it seems to me that, tone aside, some of what
> Paul is saying IS professional.

That's exactly the point. The tone is not aside, and it wasn't subtle.
It was an angry, rude, demanding rant. Saying "I don't mean to hurt
you" is pretty pointless right before you intentionally step on
someone's foot.

>  He explained to Jan specifically what his customers needed, and hoped
> that Jan had listened.  As to "trite remarks about ... missed
> deadlines", I'm not so sure that such remarks, if they're true, are
> trite.

Truth has nothing to do with whether they were trite. Calling them
trite means they were overused and lost their meaning due to the angry,
unprofessional presentation. Shouting weakens your point sometimes.

> Explaining to the rest of us that a particular developer may not meet
> announced deadlines, while depressing, is actually useful to
> "professional" programmers who need to plan their schedules carefully.

Again, I never said that all of the content of the posts was false.
Software schedules are notorious for slippage, and it's bad form to
have your development rely on any unreleased software at all. If
someone can calmly show me where a particular vendor is notoriously
worse than others, with some real evidence, I'm all ears. Otherwise,
it's hearsay.

> I know nothing about Jan or the product, but sometimes the knee jerk
> reaction on this list is "if you don't have something nice to say,
> don't say anything".  I'm not sure that is really in anyone's best
> interest.

No. If there is a valid criticism, just present it in civil manner. It
happens several times a day every day on this list, and it works quite
well.

Hey, don't get me wrong. If anyone wants to exercise their right to
voice their opinion in whatever tone they want, there's nothing I can
do about it. But the heck if it makes me want to help them, which is
what this list is all about. And that's a pity.

The signal to noise ratio on this list is damn good, and I would hate
for that to change. With that said, I think I've put in my 2 cents.

---
Brian Yennie
Chief Technology Officer
QLD Learning, LLC
(310)-367-7364

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Re: Quartam Reports, day late, dime short

Dan Shafer
In reply to this post by Jon-3
Nope, I don't think that's the knee-jerk reaction, at least not very  
often.

The knee-jerk reaction is more like, "If you must criticize, please  
do so with consideration for the feelings of the object(s) of your  
criticism and keep the tone civil."

I can't argue with that.

On Jul 15, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Jon wrote:

>>> sometimes the knee jerk reaction on this list is "if you don't  
>>> have something nice to say, don't say anything".  I'm not sure  
>>> that is really in anyone's best interest.

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