Re: A reason for threading errors in Mail.app

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Re: A reason for threading errors in Mail.app

James Richards
This is rather a late contribution to this discussion, but my brain has
been working slowly.

Firstly, those who receive the digest (as I do) and then join in the
discussion must completely 'throw' any kind of threading based on
fingerprinting.  The most accurate threading for this list would
normally be on the basis of subject line (thrown occasionally by the
odd failure to edit the subject line).

Secondly, I had always previously understood the instruction about
starting new topics to mean that I should no start an interesting
discussion about global variables under a subject line referring to
mail threading, but should change the subject line to match the
discussion.  I can't be the only person who uses the 'Reply' command to
get a new message all set up and then edits the subject line to reflect
the topic.  Indeed I do this all the time since any attempt to reply to
the digest (even on an existing topic) always produces a 'Re:
use-revolution Digest, Vol ##, Issue ##' subject.

It seems to me that the standard is not well adapted to a mailing list
of this kind.

Regards

James
--
James J Richards

[hidden email]

Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063
On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:07:17 -0700, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Dennis-
>
> Thursday, June 9, 2005, 2:14:35 PM, you wrote:
>
> DB> If this is a standard, then as a point of etiquette, members of a
> DB> list should a start new topic as a new mail message and not as a
> DB> reply to an unrelated thread.
>
> ...as has been pointed out many times...
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  [hidden email]
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Re: A reason for threading errors in Mail.app

Alex Tweedly
James Richards wrote:

> This is rather a late contribution to this discussion, but my brain
> has been working slowly.
>
> Firstly, those who receive the digest (as I do) and then join in the
> discussion must completely 'throw' any kind of threading based on
> fingerprinting.  The most accurate threading for this list would
> normally be on the basis of subject line (thrown occasionally by the
> odd failure to edit the subject line).
>
Not if they use a mail client which understands, and respects, the
standards. It would allow either "burst"ing the digest to separate
messages, or replying to an individual item from within a digest.  
rfc1153 (the de facto standard for digests, even though not an official
IETF standard) specifies that the message-ID must be retained in the
digest, so the ability to do basic threading is available to all mail
clients - but many of them fail to supply that capability to their users.

> Secondly, I had always previously understood the instruction about
> starting new topics to mean that I should no start an interesting
> discussion about global variables under a subject line referring to
> mail threading, but should change the subject line to match the
> discussion.  I can't be the only person who uses the 'Reply' command
> to get a new message all set up and then edits the subject line to
> reflect the topic.  Indeed I do this all the time since any attempt to
> reply to the digest (even on an existing topic) always produces a 'Re:
> use-revolution Digest, Vol ##, Issue ##' subject.
>
For most people, the only advantage of using Reply rather than New
Message (or equivalent command/buttons) is that it fills in the
destination address. Most modern mail clients allow some form of
"address completion" so (for me), a new reply involves typing 4 extra
characters "H" "o" "w" TAB

> It seems to me that the standard is not well adapted to a mailing list
> of this kind.
>
The standards were designed to allow for the use of mailing lists and
digests. In fact, mail lists and digests only exist because they are
defined in the standards - and the standards allow for almost all
commonly desired operations.

However, the standards define the file and message formats, not the user
presentation or user facilities, and unfortunately, most mail clients
decided that providing a way to access features weren't important.

--
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



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WindowShape doesn't work under Linux

Damien Girard
Hi all,

I am currently under Suse Linux 9.3 (very great linux), and Gnome 2.10,
and I have these bug :

- The systemwindow function doesn't work (bug reported)
- The windowshape doesn't work (he doesn't work because Runrev can't set
decoration to empty)
- I haven't got the GTK+ look and feel.
- The main window of revolution move down the screen (bug reported) at
each startup of revolution. (For see this bug, launch runrev, close
runrev, and re-launch runrev)

So, a lot a problem, I will report these bug, if somebody have got
linux, and can confirm these bug, thanks.

Runrev 2.6 (last build)

-----
Damien Girard
Email: [hidden email]

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Re: A reason for threading errors in Mail.app

see3d
In reply to this post by Alex Tweedly

On Jun 15, 2005, at 6:35 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> James Richards wrote:
>
>> Secondly, I had always previously understood the instruction about  
>> starting new topics to mean that I should no start an interesting  
>> discussion about global variables under a subject line referring  
>> to mail threading, but should change the subject line to match the  
>> discussion.  I can't be the only person who uses the 'Reply'  
>> command to get a new message all set up and then edits the subject  
>> line to reflect the topic.  Indeed I do this all the time since  
>> any attempt to reply to the digest (even on an existing topic)  
>> always produces a 'Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol ##, Issue ##'  
>> subject.
>>
>>
> For most people, the only advantage of using Reply rather than New  
> Message (or equivalent command/buttons) is that it fills in the  
> destination address. Most modern mail clients allow some form of  
> "address completion" so (for me), a new reply involves typing 4  
> extra characters "H" "o" "w" TAB

Once I realized the trouble I was causing myself and others by  
starting a new topic by replying to an unrelated topic and then  
editing the subject line, I stopped that practice at once.

I find that it is really no problem to start a new message, then drag  
and drop, or copy/paste the to: address from another message in OS X  
Mail.app.  It only saved about two mouse clicks to do it the lazy  
reply way.

I HOPE OTHERS GET THE HINT!

I can tell who does it the lazy reply way, because theirs is the  
first unrelated message added to a thread I am keeping.

Unless people object strongly, I may send out occasional private  
reminder messages to folks who are unaware of the threading trouble  
this causes some of us who are keeping some of these threads locally.

Dennis
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RE: WindowShape doesn't work under Linux

John Rule
In reply to this post by Damien Girard

> So, a lot a problem, I will report these bug, if somebody have got
> linux, and can confirm these bug, thanks.

Yes, all of these issues and more! More annoying to me than anything is the
way the native file dialog opens incrementally at a different location until
it is off the screen entirely (RedHat and Mandrake Gnome). 'Backdrop' has
never worked (for as long as I can remember).

Speaking of Linux...if anyone has a solution to global broadcasting please
let me know. The only 'hint' I could find is that the kernel needs to be
re-compiled with this feature enabled.

JR

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