Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
I didn't know that downloading stacks onto an app was ever a problem.  It's
not downloading a file of any sort that has been a no-no, it's loading
executable code, which LC scripts are not, and LC stacks are not.

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dan:
>
> this is "big news" -- I thought the downloading of LC binary stacks was
> definitely forbidden fruit inside Apple's Walled Garden
>
> Dan wrote:
>
> "The app, on launch, downloads a file (a compressed stack) from my
> server.  I
> know for fact that went without error.  That freshly downloaded stack then
> downloads another compressed stack.  The error happened on this second
> stack.
>
> The app (with the development profile, of course) works perfectly on
> numerous
> iPads and iPhones (using several versions of iOS including 10.3.3) tested
> on
> several WI-Fi wireless networks at multiple locations.  It also preformed
> perfectly using cellular data."
>
> Was this app previously submitted, approved, and orking and this is a new
> version? or is this first submission attempt?
>
> Assuming you *do* solve the networking host connection issue, please keep
> us posted as to whether Apple throws up red flags on downloading binary
> stacks from a remote server or if they let it pass
>
> BR
>
>
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> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>



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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
LC scripts are not executable code?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 10, 2017, at 3:10 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I didn't know that downloading stacks onto an app was ever a problem.  It's
> not downloading a file of any sort that has been a no-no, it's loading
> executable code, which LC scripts are not, and LC stacks are not.
>
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
> use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Dan:
>>
>> this is "big news" -- I thought the downloading of LC binary stacks was
>> definitely forbidden fruit inside Apple's Walled Garden
>>
>> Dan wrote:
>>
>> "The app, on launch, downloads a file (a compressed stack) from my
>> server.  I
>> know for fact that went without error.  That freshly downloaded stack then
>> downloads another compressed stack.  The error happened on this second
>> stack.
>>
>> The app (with the development profile, of course) works perfectly on
>> numerous
>> iPads and iPhones (using several versions of iOS including 10.3.3) tested
>> on
>> several WI-Fi wireless networks at multiple locations.  It also preformed
>> perfectly using cellular data."
>>
>> Was this app previously submitted, approved, and orking and this is a new
>> version? or is this first submission attempt?
>>
>> Assuming you *do* solve the networking host connection issue, please keep
>> us posted as to whether Apple throws up red flags on downloading binary
>> stacks from a remote server or if they let it pass
>>
>> BR
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 8/10/17 2:10 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> I didn't know that downloading stacks onto an app was ever a problem.  It's
> not downloading a file of any sort that has been a no-no, it's loading
> executable code, which LC scripts are not, and LC stacks are not.

If a script isn't executable code, I'm not sure what is.

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HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
jonathandlynch wrote:
 > LC scripts are not executable code?

They are to the LiveCode engine, but not to the OS.

LiveCode Script has no access to the OS, and can't touch anything
outside of the LiveCode engine.

So from the OS perspective, scripts are just data, like glorified
spreadsheet formulas.  All sandboxing and other API evaluation is
relevant to the LC Engine.

--
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  Fourth World Systems


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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 8/10/17 2:27 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

> jonathandlynch wrote:
>  > LC scripts are not executable code?
>
> They are to the LiveCode engine, but not to the OS.
>
> LiveCode Script has no access to the OS, and can't touch anything
> outside of the LiveCode engine.
>
> So from the OS perspective, scripts are just data, like glorified
> spreadsheet formulas.  All sandboxing and other API evaluation is
> relevant to the LC Engine.
>

Well then, that opens up a whole realm of possibilities. I was unaware.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode


On 8/10/17 9:51 pm, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:
> Dan:
>
> this is "big news" -- I thought the downloading of LC binary stacks was definitely forbidden fruit inside Apple's Walled Garden

Somehow the metaphor's are getting a bit mixed there.

For starters if Tim Cook is Adam it's a good thing their garden is in
California . . .

Also, I have a feeling that the situation started out with a situation
more like the 3 wierd sisters: Job, Wozniak and Ronald Wayne.

Considering Apple's track record with binary files (Aha; here come the
forked tongues) . . . I wonder why they should object.

Certainly I know that a very clever BBC computer emulator that was made
for iPad was rejected because it downloaded other files (BBC computer
program files).

Richmond.

>
> Dan wrote:
>
> "The app, on launch, downloads a file (a compressed stack) from my server.  I
> know for fact that went without error.  That freshly downloaded stack then
> downloads another compressed stack.  The error happened on this second stack.
>
> The app (with the development profile, of course) works perfectly on numerous
> iPads and iPhones (using several versions of iOS including 10.3.3) tested on
> several WI-Fi wireless networks at multiple locations.  It also preformed
> perfectly using cellular data."
>
> Was this app previously submitted, approved, and orking and this is a new version? or is this first submission attempt?
>
> Assuming you *do* solve the networking host connection issue, please keep us posted as to whether Apple throws up red flags on downloading binary stacks from a remote server or if they let it pass
>
> BR
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
If this were allowed, LC could create a player app for iPhone and android and allow people to exchange stacks outside of the app stores.

It could be quite big.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 10, 2017, at 3:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/10/17 2:27 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> jonathandlynch wrote:
>> > LC scripts are not executable code?
>> They are to the LiveCode engine, but not to the OS.
>> LiveCode Script has no access to the OS, and can't touch anything outside of the LiveCode engine.
>> So from the OS perspective, scripts are just data, like glorified spreadsheet formulas.  All sandboxing and other API evaluation is relevant to the LC Engine.
>
> Well then, that opens up a whole realm of possibilities. I was unaware.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
J. Landman Gay wrote:

 > On 8/10/17 2:27 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
 >> jonathandlynch wrote:
 >>  > LC scripts are not executable code?
 >>
 >> They are to the LiveCode engine, but not to the OS.
 >>
 >> LiveCode Script has no access to the OS, and can't touch anything
 >> outside of the LiveCode engine.
 >>
 >> So from the OS perspective, scripts are just data, like glorified
 >> spreadsheet formulas.  All sandboxing and other API evaluation is
 >> relevant to the LC Engine.
 >>
 >
 > Well then, that opens up a whole realm of possibilities. I was
 > unaware.

I should probably note that I'm neither an attorney nor a representative
of any OS vendor.  What I described is more or less the view of LC Ltd
as far as I understand it.

When we had this discussion here a few weeks ago Mark Waddingham also
reminded us that LC Builder is an exception, since of course it provides
access to OS APIs. So downloading things that contain widgets that use
OS APIs may not be in keeping with guidelines from OS vendors.

And in all fairness I've not read anything truly definitive on this one
way or another from any OS vendor themselves.

This is just my own view, apparently that of LC Ltd, and others.

We see many apps that allow various forms of interpreted instructions,
like spreadsheets and integration tools, and even a few scripting
language tools.  And I've met developers using a wide range of scripting
languages downloading script objects in their apps.

But even when something is widely done, and even if it makes logical
sense both in terms of policy compliance and respecting actual security
risk, it doesn't necessarily mean there isn't an arbitrary prohibition
against it.

Where exactly Apple or any other OS vendor will draw the line is not
something I can say definitively.  That would be for them.

Did Colin ever hear back on this from the folks on the Android team?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems


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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
To begin, the original purpose of this thread was to discover why the app was rejected by Apple.  It turns out that my app disables tsNet (because I have had tons of trouble with it) and that’s why the first stack was successful and the second one failed.  Simply not disabling tsNet resolved the problem and the app was the approved and released in the app store.

Now, does Apple allow my app to launch, and then download, save, and run a stack?  The answer is yes.   I have several apps in the app store now that function under this architecture.   In my opinion, a LiveCode stack is no more “executable code” than is a web page or java script.  And those is certainly aloud.

I also believe that this practice is best and not heard.   As of now, Apple is not rejecting these apps.  Let’s not give them a reason to “look deeper” when reviewing our submitted apps.  I quietly enjoy all the possibilities that this system brings.  I also don’t abuse it.

-Dan

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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
Hi Dan,

On 11/08/2017 7:43 AM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote:
> To begin, the original purpose of this thread was to discover why the app was rejected by Apple.  It turns out that my app disables tsNet (because I have had tons of trouble with it) and that’s why the first stack was successful and the second one failed.  Simply not disabling tsNet resolved the problem and the app was the approved and released in the app store.
>
Can you provide any more information about the problems you have been
having with tsNet?

If there is anything you can pass on, it would be greatly appreciated,
so that I can work to resolve any of these issues.

Cheers,

Charles


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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
I think they mean a binary executable, one that can instruct the processor to go do something. The engine is a binary executable. The scripts the engine interprets and runs is not, even though they are "compiled" in a sense. They are not compiled like a C++ code would be. It's more like compressed.

Bob S


> On Aug 10, 2017, at 12:20 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 8/10/17 2:10 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
>> I didn't know that downloading stacks onto an app was ever a problem.  It's
>> not downloading a file of any sort that has been a no-no, it's loading
>> executable code, which LC scripts are not, and LC stacks are not.
>
> If a script isn't executable code, I'm not sure what is.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
It used to be the case that Apple would only allow JS to be downloaded, all
other languages could not run. Of course the static analysis system is not
perfect and probably it can't detect that that is what is happening with
our LC apps, but the terms were clear that you could not download code from
outside. That caused rejections in many other communities.

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> jonathandlynch wrote:
> > LC scripts are not executable code?
>
> They are to the LiveCode engine, but not to the OS.
>
> LiveCode Script has no access to the OS, and can't touch anything outside
> of the LiveCode engine.
>
> So from the OS perspective, scripts are just data, like glorified
> spreadsheet formulas.  All sandboxing and other API evaluation is relevant
> to the LC Engine.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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