Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Sorry if I missed something.. but, Richmond (or anyone, for that matter), could you elucidate on the specifics of which systems confine you to LC v8?  Or at least which systems YOU employ which are not compatible with LC v9...

If there are such systems or a list of known incompatibilities regarding LC v9, other than those listed in the release notes, I (and I suspect the community) would appreciate knowing about them and have them encapsulated in one place.

Are they OS issues or specific application restrictions? ... or reported bugs?

Douglas Ruisaard
Trilogy Software
(250) 573-3935

>
> It would be LOVELY if there were to be a version 8.1.11 just to fix this problem for those of us
> confined to systems that cannot work with LC 9.
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 9/7/2018 9:05 pm, [hidden email] wrote:
> > Panos Merakos <mailto:[hidden email]> changed bug 19998
> > <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998>
> > What Removed Added
> > Status AWAITING_RELEASE RESOLVED
> > Resolution --- FIXED
> >
> > *Comment # 5 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998#c5>
> > on bug 19998 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998> from
> > Panos Merakos <mailto:[hidden email]> * Hi all,
> >
> > This bug is now fixed in LiveCode 9.0.1 RC-1:
> >
> > https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/
> >
> > Best,
> > Panos


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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
"elucidation" might be too posh a word for a few simple facts:

1. I use LiveCode, mainly, on a Macintosh computer that cannot be
upgraded above 10.7.5

2. I have no money to buy a newer machine.

Richmond.

On 10/7/2018 10:06 pm, Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode wrote:

> Sorry if I missed something.. but, Richmond (or anyone, for that matter), could you elucidate on the specifics of which systems confine you to LC v8?  Or at least which systems YOU employ which are not compatible with LC v9...
>
> If there are such systems or a list of known incompatibilities regarding LC v9, other than those listed in the release notes, I (and I suspect the community) would appreciate knowing about them and have them encapsulated in one place.
>
> Are they OS issues or specific application restrictions? ... or reported bugs?
>
> Douglas Ruisaard
> Trilogy Software
> (250) 573-3935
>
>> It would be LOVELY if there were to be a version 8.1.11 just to fix this problem for those of us
>> confined to systems that cannot work with LC 9.
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> On 9/7/2018 9:05 pm, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> Panos Merakos <mailto:[hidden email]> changed bug 19998
>>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998>
>>> What Removed Added
>>> Status AWAITING_RELEASE RESOLVED
>>> Resolution --- FIXED
>>>
>>> *Comment # 5 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998#c5>
>>> on bug 19998 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998> from
>>> Panos Merakos <mailto:[hidden email]> * Hi all,
>>>
>>> This bug is now fixed in LiveCode 9.0.1 RC-1:
>>>
>>> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Panos
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Ah... I feel your pain... Of course, a little bird has told me that the "HackIntosh" approach is WAY cheaper than original Apple hardware and "rumor" has it that such implementations run up to High Sierra perfectly on ridiculously inexpensive platforms.  Naturally, these are all just vicious rumors meant to undermine Apple's sterling and well defended market share ... justifying costs beyond those of normal human budgets... so you never heard it from me!  Apple rules!

Douglas Ruisaard
Trilogy Software
(250) 573-3935

> Subject: Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> "elucidation" might be too posh a word for a few simple facts:
>
> 1. I use LiveCode, mainly, on a Macintosh computer that cannot be upgraded above 10.7.5
>
> 2. I have no money to buy a newer machine.
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 10/7/2018 10:06 pm, Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode wrote:
> > Sorry if I missed something.. but, Richmond (or anyone, for that matter), could you elucidate on the
> specifics of which systems confine you to LC v8?  Or at least which systems YOU employ which are not
> compatible with LC v9...
> >
> > If there are such systems or a list of known incompatibilities regarding LC v9, other than those
> listed in the release notes, I (and I suspect the community) would appreciate knowing about them and
> have them encapsulated in one place.
> >
> > Are they OS issues or specific application restrictions? ... or reported bugs?
> >
> > Douglas Ruisaard
> > Trilogy Software
> > (250) 573-3935
> >
> >> It would be LOVELY if there were to be a version 8.1.11 just to fix
> >> this problem for those of us confined to systems that cannot work with LC 9.
> >>
> >> Richmond.
> >>
> >> On 9/7/2018 9:05 pm, [hidden email] wrote:
> >>> Panos Merakos <mailto:[hidden email]> changed bug 19998
> >>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998>
> >>> What Removed Added
> >>> Status AWAITING_RELEASE RESOLVED
> >>> Resolution --- FIXED
> >>>
> >>> *Comment # 5 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998#c5>
> >>> on bug 19998 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998>
> >>> from Panos Merakos <mailto:[hidden email]> * Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> This bug is now fixed in LiveCode 9.0.1 RC-1:
> >>>
> >>> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Panos
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
In the end Hacks require creation of a boot rom from unsupported sources.
Copyright?
it's also a bit of work.



--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org

On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ah... I feel your pain... Of course, a little bird has told me that the
> "HackIntosh" approach is WAY cheaper than original Apple hardware and
> "rumor" has it that such implementations run up to High Sierra perfectly on
> ridiculously inexpensive platforms.  Naturally, these are all just vicious
> rumors meant to undermine Apple's sterling and well defended market share
> ... justifying costs beyond those of normal human budgets... so you never
> heard it from me!  Apple rules!
>
> Douglas Ruisaard
> Trilogy Software
> (250) 573-3935
>
> > Subject: Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> >
> > "elucidation" might be too posh a word for a few simple facts:
> >
> > 1. I use LiveCode, mainly, on a Macintosh computer that cannot be
> upgraded above 10.7.5
> >
> > 2. I have no money to buy a newer machine.
> >
> > Richmond.
> >
> > On 10/7/2018 10:06 pm, Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode wrote:
> > > Sorry if I missed something.. but, Richmond (or anyone, for that
> matter), could you elucidate on the
> > specifics of which systems confine you to LC v8?  Or at least which
> systems YOU employ which are not
> > compatible with LC v9...
> > >
> > > If there are such systems or a list of known incompatibilities
> regarding LC v9, other than those
> > listed in the release notes, I (and I suspect the community) would
> appreciate knowing about them and
> > have them encapsulated in one place.
> > >
> > > Are they OS issues or specific application restrictions? ... or
> reported bugs?
> > >
> > > Douglas Ruisaard
> > > Trilogy Software
> > > (250) 573-3935
> > >
> > >> It would be LOVELY if there were to be a version 8.1.11 just to fix
> > >> this problem for those of us confined to systems that cannot work
> with LC 9.
> > >>
> > >> Richmond.
> > >>
> > >> On 9/7/2018 9:05 pm, [hidden email] wrote:
> > >>> Panos Merakos <mailto:[hidden email]> changed bug 19998
> > >>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998>
> > >>> What      Removed         Added
> > >>> Status    AWAITING_RELEASE        RESOLVED
> > >>> Resolution        ---     FIXED
> > >>>
> > >>> *Comment # 5 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998#c5>
> > >>> on bug 19998 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998>
> > >>> from Panos Merakos <mailto:[hidden email]> * Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> This bug is now fixed in LiveCode 9.0.1 RC-1:
> > >>>
> > >>> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/
> > >>>
> > >>> Best,
> > >>> Panos
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Richmond wrote:

 > 1. I use LiveCode, mainly, on a Macintosh computer that cannot be
 > upgraded above 10.7.5
 >
 > 2. I have no money to buy a newer machine.

FWIW I've found good deals on used Mac Minis on eBay.

Beyond that, given Apple's OS strategy which render usable hardware
obsolete prematurely, if you want an OS that's safely maintained
apparently their guidance is to stop using macOS and upgrade to Linux.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
I wonder if, rather than buying a new computer, running Linux on a VMware, Parallels, or even boot camp. But then, can a Linux version create Mac standalone?
Bill

William Prothero
http://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On Jul 10, 2018, at 9:18 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Richmond wrote:
>
> > 1. I use LiveCode, mainly, on a Macintosh computer that cannot be
> > upgraded above 10.7.5
> >
> > 2. I have no money to buy a newer machine.
>
> FWIW I've found good deals on used Mac Minis on eBay.
>
> Beyond that, given Apple's OS strategy which render usable hardware obsolete prematurely, if you want an OS that's safely maintained apparently their guidance is to stop using macOS and upgrade to Linux.
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Frankly my morals are a bit "flexible" in the area of Hackintoshes, but
my laziness tells me that
I'd be far better to get my Linux box sorted out . . . as:

1. Although Macintoshes are "jolly pretty" and easy to use, I have, to
be honest,
got past the stage of playing with plastic ducks in the bathtub, and the
rigidity of the
Macintosh family of operating systems does get on my nerves.

2. For about $100 I can get a Linux system that "beats the cr*p" out of
a Macintosh.

3. After the Hackintosh suggestion I spent 15 minutes looking at how to
set up a Mac system on non-Mac
hardware and I really wondered what would happen pumping diesel into my
two-stroke moped.

4. The ONLY reason I reverted to Macintosh (1993-2005 Macs, 2005-2016
Linux, 2016-2018 Macs)
was that I was able to lay my sweaty paws on some rather groovy
Polycarbonate 2006 iMacs.

These iMacs are super as far as they go. But with LiveCode 9 they don't go.

----------

There was a time when standalones for Macintosh pumped out of LiveCode
running on Linux would
not behave themselves on Macintosh: it would help me greatly if someone
could let me know if
that is still the case.

Richmond.

On 11/7/2018 3:42 am, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode wrote:

> In the end Hacks require creation of a boot rom from unsupported sources.
> Copyright?
> it's also a bit of work.
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Ah... I feel your pain... Of course, a little bird has told me that the
>> "HackIntosh" approach is WAY cheaper than original Apple hardware and
>> "rumor" has it that such implementations run up to High Sierra perfectly on
>> ridiculously inexpensive platforms.  Naturally, these are all just vicious
>> rumors meant to undermine Apple's sterling and well defended market share
>> ... justifying costs beyond those of normal human budgets... so you never
>> heard it from me!  Apple rules!
>>
>> Douglas Ruisaard
>> Trilogy Software
>> (250) 573-3935
>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC
>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>>
>>> "elucidation" might be too posh a word for a few simple facts:
>>>
>>> 1. I use LiveCode, mainly, on a Macintosh computer that cannot be
>> upgraded above 10.7.5
>>> 2. I have no money to buy a newer machine.
>>>
>>> Richmond.
>>>
>>> On 10/7/2018 10:06 pm, Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Sorry if I missed something.. but, Richmond (or anyone, for that
>> matter), could you elucidate on the
>>> specifics of which systems confine you to LC v8?  Or at least which
>> systems YOU employ which are not
>>> compatible with LC v9...
>>>> If there are such systems or a list of known incompatibilities
>> regarding LC v9, other than those
>>> listed in the release notes, I (and I suspect the community) would
>> appreciate knowing about them and
>>> have them encapsulated in one place.
>>>> Are they OS issues or specific application restrictions? ... or
>> reported bugs?
>>>> Douglas Ruisaard
>>>> Trilogy Software
>>>> (250) 573-3935
>>>>
>>>>> It would be LOVELY if there were to be a version 8.1.11 just to fix
>>>>> this problem for those of us confined to systems that cannot work
>> with LC 9.
>>>>> Richmond.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/7/2018 9:05 pm, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>> Panos Merakos <mailto:[hidden email]> changed bug 19998
>>>>>> <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998>
>>>>>> What      Removed         Added
>>>>>> Status    AWAITING_RELEASE        RESOLVED
>>>>>> Resolution        ---     FIXED
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Comment # 5 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998#c5>
>>>>>> on bug 19998 <https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19998>
>>>>>> from Panos Merakos <mailto:[hidden email]> * Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This bug is now fixed in LiveCode 9.0.1 RC-1:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Panos
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
There's 2 good bits of advice.

Thanks.

Richmond.

On 11/7/2018 7:18 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

> Richmond wrote:
>
> > 1. I use LiveCode, mainly, on a Macintosh computer that cannot be
> > upgraded above 10.7.5
> >
> > 2. I have no money to buy a newer machine.
>
> FWIW I've found good deals on used Mac Minis on eBay.
>
> Beyond that, given Apple's OS strategy which render usable hardware
> obsolete prematurely, if you want an OS that's safely maintained
> apparently their guidance is to stop using macOS and upgrade to Linux.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  [hidden email] http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Obsolete is a strong word. There are different levels. I had a friend who firmly held that Obsolete meant when something newer could replace a device. But it can be argued, and I take this position, that a computer device is obsolete when it no longer is capable of running current software. But a third level of Obsolecense can be concieved as when a device can no longer perform it's function for which it was obtained.

Bob S


> On Jul 10, 2018, at 21:18 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Beyond that, given Apple's OS strategy which render usable hardware obsolete prematurely, if you want an OS that's safely maintained apparently their guidance is to stop using macOS and upgrade to Linux.
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web


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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Here are some rude words and phrases that come pretty high on my sh*t
list with reasons why:

1. EOL.  I use Bryce 7 for producing 3D models even thought it was "EOL"
10 years ago (and ( was able to buy it for $10).
                I use LiveCode 7.1.4 on a regular basis as its interface
is a lot less cluttered than the subsequent versions of LiveCode;
                and I like coloured icons.

2. Obsolete.

2.1.  Currently composing electronic music on a BBC Model B from 1981
and saving the programs onto a cassette recorder.
2.2.  Running Hypercard and other PPC-only software on a G5
polycarbonate iMac.
2.3.  Always check my Maths on a British Thornton Sliderule that Mum and
Dad gave me for my 13th birthday in 1975.
2.4.  Have an iSight WebCam connected via the Firewire port on my 2006
Intel polycarbonate imac as it is a lot more
          flexible than the rather silly built-in camera on the front of
the iMac.
2.5.  Use Belkin Nostromo 50 and 52 gamepads as controller devices when
programming with LiveCode.
2.6.  My EFL school uses a whole host of "obsolete" PCs to deliver
content reinforcement software I have written with LiveCode
          via various versions of Xubuntu: the youngest machine is about
12 years old.
2.7.  Use a pair of polycarbonate iMacs (2006) in my school to allow
children to have fun remotely programming various floor robots
          via Bluetooth.
2.8.  Use a polycarbonate iMac (2006) (as does my wife) with a second
monitor as my "main man" for almost everything.

2.9.  I use a hand-drill my great-aunt gave my grandfather as a present
when he came back to Glasgow after the first World War
for all those needs for which a power drill is just a pain-in-the-bum
and too much bother.

2.10.  I brush my hair every morning with a pair of hairbrushes my
great-grandfather gave my grandfather on his 14th birthday (1911).

2.11.  My raincoat was something my Uncle picked up when he worked for
Aquascutum in 1972.

2.12. I cut my bread with a knife made from part of the front wheel
cover of a 1932 Fordson tractor made for
           me as a present by a farmer in Orkney in 1983.

3. Upgrade.

I am sure that about 90% of this is commercial push.

4. Update.

quod erat demonstrandum

4.1. Some pillock tried to tell me that Latin was obsolete the other day
. . .

As far as I can see the ONLY reason to get hold of something new is if
that new thing will allow you to a vast number of things
that the thing it is set to replace is unable to do.

Richmond.

On 11/7/2018 5:36 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

> Obsolete is a strong word. There are different levels. I had a friend who firmly held that Obsolete meant when something newer could replace a device. But it can be argued, and I take this position, that a computer device is obsolete when it no longer is capable of running current software. But a third level of Obsolecense can be concieved as when a device can no longer perform it's function for which it was obtained.
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Jul 10, 2018, at 21:18 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Beyond that, given Apple's OS strategy which render usable hardware obsolete prematurely, if you want an OS that's safely maintained apparently their guidance is to stop using macOS and upgrade to Linux.
>>
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
And may I point out that the Colt 1911 .45 caliber handgun made in that same year is far from obsolete. :-)

Bob S


> On Jul 11, 2018, at 07:59 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> 2.10.  I brush my hair every morning with a pair of hairbrushes my great-grandfather gave my grandfather on his 14th birthday (1911).


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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Just don't shoot me until after I've brushed my hair (and changed my
underpants).

[and before the comments roll: I buy new underpants about twice a year:
no 1911 long-johns for me.]

Richmond.

On 11/7/2018 6:06 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

> And may I point out that the Colt 1911 .45 caliber handgun made in that same year is far from obsolete. :-)
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Jul 11, 2018, at 07:59 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 2.10.  I brush my hair every morning with a pair of hairbrushes my great-grandfather gave my grandfather on his 14th birthday (1911).
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Richmond,
Just wondering how you have time to do all that you do!
I’m awed!
Bill

William Prothero
http://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On Jul 11, 2018, at 7:59 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Here are some rude words and phrases that come pretty high on my sh*t list with reasons why:
>
> 1. EOL.  I use Bryce 7 for producing 3D models even thought it was "EOL" 10 years ago (and ( was able to buy it for $10).
>               I use LiveCode 7.1.4 on a regular basis as its interface is a lot less cluttered than the subsequent versions of LiveCode;
>               and I like coloured icons.
>
> 2. Obsolete.
>
> 2.1.  Currently composing electronic music on a BBC Model B from 1981 and saving the programs onto a cassette recorder.
> 2.2.  Running Hypercard and other PPC-only software on a G5 polycarbonate iMac.
> 2.3.  Always check my Maths on a British Thornton Sliderule that Mum and Dad gave me for my 13th birthday in 1975.
> 2.4.  Have an iSight WebCam connected via the Firewire port on my 2006 Intel polycarbonate imac as it is a lot more
>         flexible than the rather silly built-in camera on the front of the iMac.
> 2.5.  Use Belkin Nostromo 50 and 52 gamepads as controller devices when programming with LiveCode.
> 2.6.  My EFL school uses a whole host of "obsolete" PCs to deliver content reinforcement software I have written with LiveCode
>         via various versions of Xubuntu: the youngest machine is about 12 years old.
> 2.7.  Use a pair of polycarbonate iMacs (2006) in my school to allow children to have fun remotely programming various floor robots
>         via Bluetooth.
> 2.8.  Use a polycarbonate iMac (2006) (as does my wife) with a second monitor as my "main man" for almost everything.
>
> 2.9.  I use a hand-drill my great-aunt gave my grandfather as a present when he came back to Glasgow after the first World War
> for all those needs for which a power drill is just a pain-in-the-bum and too much bother.
>
> 2.10.  I brush my hair every morning with a pair of hairbrushes my great-grandfather gave my grandfather on his 14th birthday (1911).
>
> 2.11.  My raincoat was something my Uncle picked up when he worked for Aquascutum in 1972.
>
> 2.12. I cut my bread with a knife made from part of the front wheel cover of a 1932 Fordson tractor made for
>          me as a present by a farmer in Orkney in 1983.
>
> 3. Upgrade.
>
> I am sure that about 90% of this is commercial push.
>
> 4. Update.
>
> quod erat demonstrandum
>
> 4.1. Some pillock tried to tell me that Latin was obsolete the other day . . .
>
> As far as I can see the ONLY reason to get hold of something new is if that new thing will allow you to a vast number of things
> that the thing it is set to replace is unable to do.
>
> Richmond.
>
>> On 11/7/2018 5:36 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> Obsolete is a strong word. There are different levels. I had a friend who firmly held that Obsolete meant when something newer could replace a device. But it can be argued, and I take this position, that a computer device is obsolete when it no longer is capable of running current software. But a third level of Obsolecense can be concieved as when a device can no longer perform it's function for which it was obtained.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 10, 2018, at 21:18 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Beyond that, given Apple's OS strategy which render usable hardware obsolete prematurely, if you want an OS that's safely maintained apparently their guidance is to stop using macOS and upgrade to Linux.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World Systems
>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

sqb

--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 7:59 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Here are some rude words and phrases that come pretty high on my sh*t list
> with reasons why:
>
> 1. EOL.  I use Bryce 7 for producing 3D models even thought it was "EOL"
> 10 years ago (and ( was able to buy it for $10).
>                I use LiveCode 7.1.4 on a regular basis as its interface is
> a lot less cluttered than the subsequent versions of LiveCode;
>                and I like coloured icons.
>
> 2. Obsolete.
>
> 2.1.  Currently composing electronic music on a BBC Model B from 1981 and
> saving the programs onto a cassette recorder.
> 2.2.  Running Hypercard and other PPC-only software on a G5 polycarbonate
> iMac.
> 2.3.  Always check my Maths on a British Thornton Sliderule that Mum and
> Dad gave me for my 13th birthday in 1975.
> 2.4.  Have an iSight WebCam connected via the Firewire port on my 2006
> Intel polycarbonate imac as it is a lot more
>          flexible than the rather silly built-in camera on the front of
> the iMac.
> 2.5.  Use Belkin Nostromo 50 and 52 gamepads as controller devices when
> programming with LiveCode.
> 2.6.  My EFL school uses a whole host of "obsolete" PCs to deliver content
> reinforcement software I have written with LiveCode
>          via various versions of Xubuntu: the youngest machine is about 12
> years old.
> 2.7.  Use a pair of polycarbonate iMacs (2006) in my school to allow
> children to have fun remotely programming various floor robots
>          via Bluetooth.
> 2.8.  Use a polycarbonate iMac (2006) (as does my wife) with a second
> monitor as my "main man" for almost everything.
>
> 2.9.  I use a hand-drill my great-aunt gave my grandfather as a present
> when he came back to Glasgow after the first World War
> for all those needs for which a power drill is just a pain-in-the-bum and
> too much bother.
>
> 2.10.  I brush my hair every morning with a pair of hairbrushes my
> great-grandfather gave my grandfather on his 14th birthday (1911).
>
> 2.11.  My raincoat was something my Uncle picked up when he worked for
> Aquascutum in 1972.
>
> 2.12. I cut my bread with a knife made from part of the front wheel cover
> of a 1932 Fordson tractor made for
>           me as a present by a farmer in Orkney in 1983.
>
> 3. Upgrade.
>
> I am sure that about 90% of this is commercial push.
>
> 4. Update.
>
> quod erat demonstrandum
>
> 4.1. Some pillock tried to tell me that Latin was obsolete the other day .
> . .
>
> As far as I can see the ONLY reason to get hold of something new is if
> that new thing will allow you to a vast number of things
> that the thing it is set to replace is unable to do.
>
> Richmond.
>
>
> On 11/7/2018 5:36 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Obsolete is a strong word. There are different levels. I had a friend who
>> firmly held that Obsolete meant when something newer could replace a
>> device. But it can be argued, and I take this position, that a computer
>> device is obsolete when it no longer is capable of running current
>> software. But a third level of Obsolecense can be concieved as when a
>> device can no longer perform it's function for which it was obtained.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>> On Jul 10, 2018, at 21:18 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Beyond that, given Apple's OS strategy which render usable hardware
>>> obsolete prematurely, if you want an OS that's safely maintained apparently
>>> their guidance is to stop using macOS and upgrade to Linux.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World Systems
>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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RE: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
The 1911 is newer than that... It was first manufactured in 1912. All
kidding aside it is as fine a piece of machinery now as it was then.

I run a raid array served up by OpenVMS via SMB. The server has not been
re-booted in a year. No wait I'm wrong not quite a year==> "OpenVMS V7.3-2
on node EISVM1  11-JUL-2018 11:55:06.83  Uptime  254 06:27:50". As the virus
Nazi says "No crypto locker for you OpenVMS". I waste 2 hours that I never
get back every 2 weeks to re-boot my Win 10 host, VMs and Mac to keep
everything running fast. It seems that VMS and non-Mac Linux are by far more
stable and don't need re-boots nearly as often.

I like new tech but I don't dismiss old tech out-of-hand. I would feel much
safer if the FAA airport control towers were still running DOS, Win 3.1 or
preferably some custom OS on custom HW served up by IBM mainframes using
leased private com lines rather than any Windows system connected to the
internet. There's a good idea, connect airport control towers to the
internet, can't see anything going wrong there.

The landfills are filled with millions of Pentium PCs that could be running
tons of useful apps. But no, the world went to bloated OSs(started with XP
SP3) that obsoleted the HW and not only created another environmental
disaster in the landfills(euphemism for un-regulated garbage dump) but also
all the energy needed to manufacture and deliver new PCs.

Sometimes old-school is new-school

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
[hidden email]


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 11:06 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Bob Sneidar
Subject: Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

And may I point out that the Colt 1911 .45 caliber handgun made in that same
year is far from obsolete. :-)

Bob S


> On Jul 11, 2018, at 07:59 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> 2.10.  I brush my hair every morning with a pair of hairbrushes my
great-grandfather gave my grandfather on his 14th birthday (1911).


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preferences:
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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Bob S wrote:

 >> On Jul 10, 2018, at 21:18 , Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >>
 >> Beyond that, given Apple's OS strategy which render usable
 >> hardware obsolete prematurely, if you want an OS that's
 >> safely maintained apparently their guidance is to stop
 >> using macOS and upgrade to Linux.
 >
 > Obsolete is a strong word.

Yes, it is.

When a computer's OS no longer receives critical patches for known
exploits, it's no longer safe to use.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
"it's no longer safe to use"

I wonder how many people actually believe that?

Richmond.

On 11/7/2018 11:43 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

> Bob S wrote:
>
> >> On Jul 10, 2018, at 21:18 , Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >>
> >> Beyond that, given Apple's OS strategy which render usable
> >> hardware obsolete prematurely, if you want an OS that's
> >> safely maintained apparently their guidance is to stop
> >> using macOS and upgrade to Linux.
> >
> > Obsolete is a strong word.
>
> Yes, it is.
>
> When a computer's OS no longer receives critical patches for known
> exploits, it's no longer safe to use.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  [hidden email] http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> "it's no longer safe to use"
>
> I wonder how many people actually believe that?

Judging from cases we read about regularly, not enough.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
I think it depends on what you use it for. I have yet to see a MacOS "exploit" that didn't require the end user do something they ought not to do, and/or authenticate an action they didn't initiate. And by exploit, I mean access the OS via network protocol and bypass protections in place to prevent it without user action or intervention.

Bob S


> On Jul 11, 2018, at 13:43 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bob S wrote:
>
> >> On Jul 10, 2018, at 21:18 , Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >>
> >> Beyond that, given Apple's OS strategy which render usable
> >> hardware obsolete prematurely, if you want an OS that's
> >> safely maintained apparently their guidance is to stop
> >> using macOS and upgrade to Linux.
> >
> > Obsolete is a strong word.
>
> Yes, it is.
>
> When a computer's OS no longer receives critical patches for known exploits, it's no longer safe to use.
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web


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Re: [Bug 19998] The non-appearance of Polygon graphics in LC

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > On Jul 11, 2018, at 13:43 , Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >> When a computer's OS no longer receives critical patches for known
 >> exploits, it's no longer safe to use.
 >
 > I think it depends on what you use it for.

True. If you unplug the power and use it as a doorstop, it's completely
safe. Anything else involves varying degrees of risk. :)

Running outdated software is one of the leading reasons 80% of American
businesses have experienced at least one form of hack or another.


 > I have yet to see a MacOS "exploit" that didn't require the end user
 > do something they ought not to do, and/or authenticate an action they
 > didn't initiate. And by exploit, I mean access the OS via network
 > protocol and bypass protections in place to prevent it without user
 > action or intervention.

That's true of most OSes.  But look deeper.  They're rarer, but they exist.

And even those that require user action, those actions may seem
innocuous to many users who do not understand the implications, or can
use exploits in other software to gain elevated privileges which can
then be used with exploits requiring admin.

The deeper you look, the murkier things get.

Sometimes even authentication itself becomes vulnerable:

    Passwords are stored in the Mac's Keychain, which typically
    requires a master login password to access the vault.

    But Wardle has shown that the vulnerability allows an attacker
    to grab and steal every password in plain-text using an unsigned
    app downloaded from the internet, without needing that password.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-macos-high-sierra-password-vulnerable-to-password-stealing-hack/>

And we can't forget everyone's favorite, the Meltdown flaw in Intel
chips like those in systems that run macOS 10.7:
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/meltdown-and-spectre-heres-what-intel-apple-microsoft-others-are-doing-about-it/>

A partial list of vulnerabilities specific to macOS 10.7.5 is here:
<https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-49/product_id-156/version_id-143035/Apple-Mac-Os-X-10.7.5.html>

That list contains only OS vulnerabilities; other searches can turn up
additional vulnerabilities against the versions of Safari, Apache,
rsync, and other programs included in the system which have their own
lengthy lists of known vulnerabilities.  Combining vulnerabilities
multiplies threats.

Consider which of the 900+ CVEs against Safari may be used in
combination with other exploits:
<https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-49/product_id-2935/Apple-Safari.html>


Ultimately, security is a matter of subjective sense of comfort.  The
sort of person who goes into the shopping mall with they keys left in
their car will probably feel right at home running an OS where the only
system patches are being delivered by organized crime rings and hostile
nation state actors.

After all, not every car with the keys left in it gets stolen, so why
not? ;)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com

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