Re: Download LC Community: trapped

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Re: Download LC Community: trapped

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
on Thu, 9 Mar 2017, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> The value of an email address is only non-zero
> when it's given freely. So have sign-up as an option,
> rather than a requirement, and the problem
> is very easily solved.

Emails directions could be really useful to open
a direct communication link with newcomers
and our LiveCode Community.

Most of the time, new developers in this platform
do not know about some old but useful learning
resources that longtimers take for granted, so
these essential resources are basically invisible
for us.

Probably one of the most eye opening information for
new developers is how others are using LiveCode.

Al
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Re: Download LC Community: trapped

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
I'm all for requiring an email address to DL the community version. After all, they are DL'ing a fully functional development application! Providing a valid email address is the least they can do.

Bob S


> On Mar 9, 2017, at 17:30 , Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> on Thu, 9 Mar 2017, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> The value of an email address is only non-zero
>> when it's given freely. So have sign-up as an option,
>> rather than a requirement, and the problem
>> is very easily solved.
>
> Emails directions could be really useful to open
> a direct communication link with newcomers
> and our LiveCode Community.
>
> Most of the time, new developers in this platform
> do not know about some old but useful learning
> resources that longtimers take for granted, so
> these essential resources are basically invisible
> for us.
>
> Probably one of the most eye opening information for
> new developers is how others are using LiveCode.
>
> Al


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Re: Download LC Community: trapped

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > I'm all for requiring an email address to DL the community version.
 > After all, they are DL'ing a fully functional development
 > application! Providing a valid email address is the least they
 > can do.

To what end?

An email address has value only to the degree it is given willingly.

An email address that won't convert is just waste.

When that form is returned to being optional, those who want emails will
get them, and those who don't will still be able to use LiveCode and
share it with their friends.

Using and sharing LiveCode adds value to our community.

And as long as so few know what LiveCode is, platform adoption is the
most critical key to all forms of success for the project.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  LiveCode Community Liaison
  [hidden email]


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RE: Download LC Community: trapped

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
And.. I come down on the other side of this one.
I think offering people the opportunity to register w/email is important
but.... not allowing them to see what they're getting unless they do.... not
so good.

I routinely do not try tools if I have to give anything to try them out...
email, facebook permission, etc. Not willing to spread personal any further
than I need to.  Means I'm probably missing out on great stuff but I'm a
stong believer in try before you by without having to become "connected" to
someone/thing I may not want to have a lasting relationship with.

That said... I personally don't mind getting a periodic reminder when
checking something out along the lines of "We hope you're enjoying XXXXX. If
you haven't registered to receive important notices from YYYY yet. Please
consider doing so. This notice will disappear if you do."
 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 7:55 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <[hidden email]>
Cc: Bob Sneidar <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Download LC Community: trapped

I'm all for requiring an email address to DL the community version. After
all, they are DL'ing a fully functional development application! Providing a
valid email address is the least they can do.

Bob S


> On Mar 9, 2017, at 17:30 , Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> on Thu, 9 Mar 2017, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> The value of an email address is only non-zero when it's given
>> freely. So have sign-up as an option, rather than a requirement, and
>> the problem is very easily solved.
>
> Emails directions could be really useful to open a direct
> communication link with newcomers and our LiveCode Community.
>
> Most of the time, new developers in this platform do not know about
> some old but useful learning resources that longtimers take for
> granted, so these essential resources are basically invisible for us.
>
> Probably one of the most eye opening information for new developers is
> how others are using LiveCode.
>
> Al


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Re: Download LC Community: trapped

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
I have bad news for everyone who thinks that by not giving their email address out actually does anything to prevent it from getting on a spam list. If you mother has the address in her address book and clicks on a bad link or opens an email with malware on it, your address is probably getting scraped from her recents list and address book. As soon as you use an email address to send anything to anyone, consider it compromised.

Bob S


> On Mar 10, 2017, at 08:34 , Jim MacConnell via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> And.. I come down on the other side of this one.
> I think offering people the opportunity to register w/email is important
> but.... not allowing them to see what they're getting unless they do.... not
> so good.
>
> I routinely do not try tools if I have to give anything to try them out...
> email, facebook permission, etc. Not willing to spread personal any further
> than I need to.  


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Re: Download LC Community: trapped

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
I would hope that all first-time downloaders supply an e-mail adress,
but notwithstanding that they should
be given the option to opt out.

Richmond.

On 3/10/17 5:55 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

> I'm all for requiring an email address to DL the community version. After all, they are DL'ing a fully functional development application! Providing a valid email address is the least they can do.
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 17:30 , Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> on Thu, 9 Mar 2017, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>> The value of an email address is only non-zero
>>> when it's given freely. So have sign-up as an option,
>>> rather than a requirement, and the problem
>>> is very easily solved.
>> Emails directions could be really useful to open
>> a direct communication link with newcomers
>> and our LiveCode Community.
>>
>> Most of the time, new developers in this platform
>> do not know about some old but useful learning
>> resources that longtimers take for granted, so
>> these essential resources are basically invisible
>> for us.
>>
>> Probably one of the most eye opening information for
>> new developers is how others are using LiveCode.
>>
>> Al
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: Download LC Community: trapped

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Indeed; but now this is drifting OT.

Richmond.

On 3/10/17 7:04 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

> I have bad news for everyone who thinks that by not giving their email address out actually does anything to prevent it from getting on a spam list. If you mother has the address in her address book and clicks on a bad link or opens an email with malware on it, your address is probably getting scraped from her recents list and address book. As soon as you use an email address to send anything to anyone, consider it compromised.
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Mar 10, 2017, at 08:34 , Jim MacConnell via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> And.. I come down on the other side of this one.
>> I think offering people the opportunity to register w/email is important
>> but.... not allowing them to see what they're getting unless they do.... not
>> so good.
>>
>> I routinely do not try tools if I have to give anything to try them out...
>> email, facebook permission, etc. Not willing to spread personal any further
>> than I need to.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: Download LC Community: trapped

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
It's a matter of forced consent, not necessarily about the intended use of
your email address. I get it, and I agree that it should not be required.

~Roger


On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Indeed; but now this is drifting OT.
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 3/10/17 7:04 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> I have bad news for everyone who thinks that by not giving their email
>> address out actually does anything to prevent it from getting on a spam
>> list. If you mother has the address in her address book and clicks on a bad
>> link or opens an email with malware on it, your address is probably getting
>> scraped from her recents list and address book. As soon as you use an email
>> address to send anything to anyone, consider it compromised.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>> On Mar 10, 2017, at 08:34 , Jim MacConnell via use-livecode <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> And.. I come down on the other side of this one.
>>> I think offering people the opportunity to register w/email is important
>>> but.... not allowing them to see what they're getting unless they do....
>>> not
>>> so good.
>>>
>>> I routinely do not try tools if I have to give anything to try them
>>> out...
>>> email, facebook permission, etc. Not willing to spread personal any
>>> further
>>> than I need to.
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
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Re: Download LC Community: trapped

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Would a splash screen that appears on  first launch of the IDE not be a
better way of harvesting email addresses? A "do not show again" tick box on
said splash screen would suffice for those not interested in registering.
Vastly reduces download friction

On 10 Mar 2017 5:47 p.m., "Roger Eller via use-livecode" <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's a matter of forced consent, not necessarily about the intended use of
> your email address. I get it, and I agree that it should not be required.
>
> ~Roger
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Indeed; but now this is drifting OT.
> >
> > Richmond.
> >
> > On 3/10/17 7:04 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> >
> >> I have bad news for everyone who thinks that by not giving their email
> >> address out actually does anything to prevent it from getting on a spam
> >> list. If you mother has the address in her address book and clicks on a
> bad
> >> link or opens an email with malware on it, your address is probably
> getting
> >> scraped from her recents list and address book. As soon as you use an
> email
> >> address to send anything to anyone, consider it compromised.
> >>
> >> Bob S
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mar 10, 2017, at 08:34 , Jim MacConnell via use-livecode <
> >>> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> And.. I come down on the other side of this one.
> >>> I think offering people the opportunity to register w/email is
> important
> >>> but.... not allowing them to see what they're getting unless they
> do....
> >>> not
> >>> so good.
> >>>
> >>> I routinely do not try tools if I have to give anything to try them
> >>> out...
> >>> email, facebook permission, etc. Not willing to spread personal any
> >>> further
> >>> than I need to.
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
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Re: Download LC Community: trapped

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
That seems a very good idea.

Richmond.

On 3/10/17 8:26 pm, Dan Brown via use-livecode wrote:

> Would a splash screen that appears on  first launch of the IDE not be a
> better way of harvesting email addresses? A "do not show again" tick box on
> said splash screen would suffice for those not interested in registering.
> Vastly reduces download friction
>
> On 10 Mar 2017 5:47 p.m., "Roger Eller via use-livecode" <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> It's a matter of forced consent, not necessarily about the intended use of
>> your email address. I get it, and I agree that it should not be required.
>>
>> ~Roger
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed; but now this is drifting OT.
>>>
>>> Richmond.
>>>
>>> On 3/10/17 7:04 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have bad news for everyone who thinks that by not giving their email
>>>> address out actually does anything to prevent it from getting on a spam
>>>> list. If you mother has the address in her address book and clicks on a
>> bad
>>>> link or opens an email with malware on it, your address is probably
>> getting
>>>> scraped from her recents list and address book. As soon as you use an
>> email
>>>> address to send anything to anyone, consider it compromised.
>>>>
>>>> Bob S
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 10, 2017, at 08:34 , Jim MacConnell via use-livecode <
>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> And.. I come down on the other side of this one.
>>>>> I think offering people the opportunity to register w/email is
>> important
>>>>> but.... not allowing them to see what they're getting unless they
>> do....
>>>>> not
>>>>> so good.
>>>>>
>>>>> I routinely do not try tools if I have to give anything to try them
>>>>> out...
>>>>> email, facebook permission, etc. Not willing to spread personal any
>>>>> further
>>>>> than I need to.
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> subscription preferences:
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>>>
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Local engagement

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Informal survey:  How many here attend local meetups for groups that
advocate for open source software (e.g. user groups for Linux, Drupal,
Wordpress, R, Python, etc.)?

If so, what have you learned there, and have you had a chance to
introduce others there to LiveCode?

I'll start:

Groups I've attended
--------------------
I'm a member of my local Linux User Group, and despite the name they
really cover everything related to open source software.  Last night's
meeting introduced me to OpenRefine, a nice GUI toolkit for massaging
data.  I've also learned awk, rsync, and strace through the group. I won
my first Raspberry Pi in a raffle at their 20th anniversary party last year.

I sometimes attend meetups with the local Drupal user group. I don't use
Drupal yet, but I've enjoyed learning about it and love hanging out with
those people.

There's also another group that meets in a nearby city focused on data
science, where I've been introduced to R.  That group has some inspiring
stories of decision support success through good analytics.


Sharing LiveCode
----------------
The local Linux User Group is managed under the auspices of a parent
group, San Gabriel Valley Tech, through which we arrange our monthly
LiveCode Developer meetups:
https://www.meetup.com/SGVTech/events/zjvctlywgbjb/

We generally draw about 10 or so people, and usually have at least one
or two newcomers interested in getting started with LiveCode.

A couple meetings ago we had a brief demo from the woman behind the
Enchantment OS project, a new Linux distro aimed at absolute computer
newbies.  She occasionally needs specialized GUI apps, and I'll be
following up with her to see which of those LC might be a good fit for.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  LiveCode Community Liaison
  [hidden email]

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Re: Local engagement

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Hi,

IMHO, another avenue for local LiveCode engagement are the *Camps.
Especially the WordCamps and PodCamps.

Plus there are the CodeFests and Hack-a-thons.

At those meetings, I've found that some of the folks there at any given
time are networking for jobs. That's good. Then there are the regulars who
are fixtures, of course.

The Rapid Application Development helps and some of the time it is just a
prototype and window dressing, and under the hood, there isn't real hope of
making it work. But, for the contest, it is fun to make the demo sizzle.

With the PodCamps and WordCamps, the typical participant is not a computer
genius, but more of a creative person. Designers, authors,opinionated
bloggers, etc. I feel that those folks, plus the educators, are closer to
the sweet spot for LiveCode's wider adoption.

I have not been going to many *.edu events. That too seems to be a good
place to plant seeds.

I do attend a couple of our Western PA LUG meetings. But, I'm not a
regular. No luck or attempts at me giving a demo. But, I do have
conversations often.

In our town, Pittsburgh, PA, USA, we tried to get a LiveCode user group
going, but we've got less than five who care enough to make the time.
Anyone else in town here?

The other HUGE area where I think LiveCode could shine is with the
Raspberry Pi community. But, sadly, the mothership is not putting support
there for confidence to take root, IMHO. So, that remains only a dream. An
annual release for Pi would be most welcomed.

Finally, there are a few "happy hour" type tech meetings in town as well.
They are not my cup of tea as they often meet when I'm with the kids at
swim practices. So, my weekend schedule with Saturday Swim School and meets
does not let me get to as many of those meetings as I'd like to attend.


--
Ta.


Mark Rauterkus       [hidden email]
PPS Summer Dreamers' Swim & Water Polo Camp Executive Coach
Varsity Boys Swim Coach, Pittsburgh Obama Academy
Recent Head Water Polo Coach, Carnegie Mellon University Women's Club Team
Pittsburgh Combined Water Polo Team

http://CLOH.org

412 298 3432 = cell
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Re: Local engagement

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Mark Rauterkus wrote:

 > IMHO, another avenue for local LiveCode engagement are the *Camps.
 > Especially the WordCamps and PodCamps.
 >
 > Plus there are the CodeFests and Hack-a-thons.

Those are great - thanks for mentioning them.

I originally asked about user groups since that's where I spend much of
my own social time, and with the "Download LC Community: trapped" thread
being about the open source community I thought it would helpful to get
a feel for how much time the readers here spend with groups focused on
open source software.

But there's a lot to be said for Hackathons and the like, and with a
good team they can be a great way to show off LC workflows.

 > With the PodCamps and WordCamps, the typical participant is not a
 > computer genius, but more of a creative person. Designers,
 > authors,opinionated bloggers, etc. I feel that those folks, plus the
 > educators, are closer to the sweet spot for LiveCode's wider adoption.
 >
 > I have not been going to many *.edu events. That too seems to be a
 > good place to plant seeds.

I wonder if the Toronto LC Group has had much cross-pollination with EDU
events.

Martin Koob seems to run a fine group there, with Tom Glod presenting at
their last meeting and before that they had none other than Fraser Gordon:
https://www.meetup.com/Greater-Toronto-Area-LiveCode-Users-Group/


 > I do attend a couple of our Western PA LUG meetings. But, I'm not a
 > regular. No luck or attempts at me giving a demo. But, I do have
 > conversations often.

Who runs that?  I wonder if we might make a subforum for them in the
User Groups section of the LC Forums:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=30


 > In our town, Pittsburgh, PA, USA, we tried to get a LiveCode user
 > group going, but we've got less than five who care enough to make the
 > time. Anyone else in town here?

Sometimes small groups are still quite useful.  With our SoCal group
we've had smaller meetings in the past, and those who did show up still
had a good time.

The Raspberry Pi part was so good I made a separate thread from that so
it doesn't get lost....


Another area ripe for LC may be the many municipal open data initiatives
spreading across the States and elsewhere.

A growing number of cities are publishing data they collect so app devs
can turn that into solutions for the local community.

Jason Hibbets has been quite an effective leader in this area through
his work with the City of Raleigh, NC.  His book is freely downloadable
as PDF, available here:
http://theopensourcecity.com/

Many local cities here (Los Angeles, Santa Monica, Long Beach, Pasadena)
have open data portals, and last weekend reps from all four cities
gathered at the SoCal Linux Expo (SCaLE) for a panel on that:
<https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/15x/presentations/open-data-cities-panel>

Being an education-focused non-profit, everything at SCaLE is recorded
and made freely available - the video of that session is here:
<https://youtu.be/94FQMWvhq8A?t=12966>

(In fact, the whole open data track is in that video, and the session
following it on IoT may also be of interest to some here).

One of the outcomes there was identifying the need for a citizen
committee in Pasadena to help coordinate between local devs and city
resources. I'll be working with my friend Matti, who organized the
panel, to help put that together.

Among other goals I'm hoping that we'll find opportunities to deliver
efficient, cost-effective interfaces to this data with LiveCode.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  LiveCode Community Liaison
  [hidden email]


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