Re: Survey Caution

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Re: Survey Caution

Richard Gaskin
Joe F. wrote:

 > I'm in the middle of taking this new survey when I realized that 1
 > is "most important" and 5 "least important"

That's exactly backwards from every survey I've ever seen.

Hint:  5 is greater than 1. ;)

I wonder how many other results are as invalid as mine were because of
that unusual scale....

--
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  Fourth World
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Re: Survey Caution

Richmond Mathewson-2
  On 29/05/2010 16:02, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Joe F. wrote:
>
> > I'm in the middle of taking this new survey when I realized that 1
> > is "most important" and 5 "least important"
>
> That's exactly backwards from every survey I've ever seen.
>
> Hint:  5 is greater than 1. ;)
>
> I wonder how many other results are as invalid as mine were because of
> that unusual scale....
>
Yes; I fell over that one about half way through; so half of my stuff is
completely the wrong way
round.

I suppose because the whole thing is cack-handed, and many people will
be caught out
by it all the results will actually have no value.
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Re: Survey Caution

Robert Mann
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
Oh hell !!! I did not realize.. hum.. oh damn me and them!! So my answers are all wrong!! Great!! thanks for pointing out.. how to let them know??
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Re: Survey Caution

Robert Mann
I replied by mail to runrev support to let them know my participation is voided... !
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Re: Survey Caution

Colin Holgate-2
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
Hopefully you all voted 3 for everything, then things would be ok!

Fortunately, I read the instructions at the top, and so my one is correct.

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Re: Survey Caution

Mark Swindell
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
Oops.  Mine is backwards, too.  Are UK surveys usually done the other way around?  


On May 29, 2010, at 6:02 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Joe F. wrote:
>
> > I'm in the middle of taking this new survey when I realized that 1
> > is "most important" and 5 "least important"
>
> That's exactly backwards from every survey I've ever seen.
>
> Hint:  5 is greater than 1. ;)
>
> I wonder how many other results are as invalid as mine were because of that unusual scale....
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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RE: Survey Caution

Stephen King
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
I also noticed only halfway through the second pageand hopefully went back
and corrected everything, BUT it is clear that an awful lot of responses
will be totally incorrect.

Hopefully, they will re-release the survey with a more conventional order.
Pain to do it again though.

Generally, I believe the team do look at the threads

Cheers
Steve

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Re: Survey Caution

Jim Kanter
This is becoming an interesting survey about who actually reads
instructions and who just assumes the way things are...
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Re: Survey Caution

Richmond Mathewson-2
  On 29/05/2010 20:45, Jim Kanter wrote:
> This is becoming an interesting survey about who actually reads
> instructions and who just assumes the way things are...

By the time one is in one's mid-40s the brain is half-rotted  . . .   :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

This is directly relevant to a current situation in my EFL school.

Last week I decided to run the kids through a practise PET test; and
they all
"f**ked-up big"; this was odd as their English is reasonably good.

So, after a suitable rant on my part, and suitably splashy tears on
their part,
we did another one (at the next class); and they all did very well indeed.

The difference being simply that I went through the instructions with them
before the second attempt (they had charged at the first one like a bull at
the matador's cape - didn't bother to read the instructions).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now; while I'm on this particular soap-box let me have "a go" at the
RunRev documentation:

the other day I asked a question about how to duplicate a card with all
its controls,
scripts and so forth . . .

now the reason why I asked this question is because I searched through
the documentation under DUPLICATE and COPY . . .

now, maybe I'm thick, or maybe it just didn't occur to me to look for CLONE;

by why would it? when everything else of this sort comes under DUPLICATE.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

So; there are 2 problems; coming form each end. so to speak:-

1. is the user has to read the instructions.

2. the instructions have to be written with the user in mind.
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Re: Survey Caution

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> Now; while I'm on this particular soap-box let me have "a go" at the
> RunRev documentation:
>
> the other day I asked a question about how to duplicate a card with all
> its controls,
> scripts and so forth . . .
>
> now the reason why I asked this question is because I searched through
> the documentation under DUPLICATE and COPY . . .
>
> now, maybe I'm thick, or maybe it just didn't occur to me to look for CLONE;
>
> by why would it?

Because it's included in the See Also list for the "copy" command.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
  revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Survey Caution

Richmond Mathewson-2
  On 29/05/2010 23:54, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
>> Now; while I'm on this particular soap-box let me have "a go" at the
>> RunRev documentation:
>>
>> the other day I asked a question about how to duplicate a card with all
>> its controls,
>> scripts and so forth . . .
>>
>> now the reason why I asked this question is because I searched through
>> the documentation under DUPLICATE and COPY . . .
>>
>> now, maybe I'm thick, or maybe it just didn't occur to me to look for
>> CLONE;
>>
>> by why would it?
>
> Because it's included in the See Also list for the "copy" command.
>

How many people are going to read a set of documentation in such close
detail?

I program as an exercise in pure poetry, as artistic expression; and how
many
painters do you know who read everything written on the tubes of paint??????

Especially the "see also" bits at the bottom of the 'tube'.
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Re: Survey Caution

Stephen Barncard-4
My personal experience with looking at the 'see also' links is that they are
incredibly valuable when working with previously unknown functions,
properties or commands. I look at "see also" every time I am looking up a
definition or syntax and learn of alternate ways to do the same thing, or
something new altogether. A learning experience every time.

On 29 May 2010 14:03, Richmond Mathewson <[hidden email]>wrote:

>  On 29/05/2010 23:54, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>>
>>
> How many people are going to read a set of documentation in such close
> detail?
>
>
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Re: Survey Caution

Richmond Mathewson-2
  On 30/05/2010 00:15, stephen barncard wrote:
> My personal experience with looking at the 'see also' links is that they are
> incredibly valuable when working with previously unknown functions,
> properties or commands. I look at "see also" every time I am looking up a
> definition or syntax and learn of alternate ways to do the same thing, or
> something new altogether. A learning experience every time.

Well; thanks to you and Richard I think I will change my approach to the
Documentation . . .  :)

> On 29 May 2010 14:03, Richmond Mathewson<[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>>   On 29/05/2010 23:54, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>>
>> How many people are going to read a set of documentation in such close
>> detail?
>>
>>
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Re: Survey Caution

ScottR
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
Recently, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

>> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>
>>> Now; while I'm on this particular soap-box let me have "a go" at the
>>> RunRev documentation:
>>>
>>> the other day I asked a question about how to duplicate a card with all
>>> its controls,
>>> scripts and so forth . . .
>>>
>>> now the reason why I asked this question is because I searched through
>>> the documentation under DUPLICATE and COPY . . .
>>>
>>> now, maybe I'm thick, or maybe it just didn't occur to me to look for
>>> CLONE;
>>>
>>> by why would it?
>>
>> Because it's included in the See Also list for the "copy" command.
>>
>
> How many people are going to read a set of documentation in such close
> detail?

So you're implying the documentation is not good enough because you choose
not to read it.  Hmmm.


> I program as an exercise in pure poetry, as artistic expression; and how
> many
> painters do you know who read everything written on the tubes of paint??????
>
> Especially the "see also" bits at the bottom of the 'tube'.

To be fair, "See Also" is the 3rd block down in the docs, pretty well "above
the fold".  And if your tube of paint required an operating system to run,
shipped with dozens of example tubes and documentation describing how best
to apply the paint, explaining what media are most suitable for the paint,
then it seems pretty likely you would crack open the docs at some point.

Please.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


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Re: Survey Caution

Richmond Mathewson-2
  On 30/05/2010 00:26, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
>>> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now; while I'm on this particular soap-box let me have "a go" at the
>>>> RunRev documentation:
>>>>
>>>> the other day I asked a question about how to duplicate a card with all
>>>> its controls,
>>>> scripts and so forth . . .
>>>>
>>>> now the reason why I asked this question is because I searched through
>>>> the documentation under DUPLICATE and COPY . . .
>>>>
>>>> now, maybe I'm thick, or maybe it just didn't occur to me to look for
>>>> CLONE;
>>>>
>>>> by why would it?
>>> Because it's included in the See Also list for the "copy" command.
>>>
>> How many people are going to read a set of documentation in such close
>> detail?
> So you're implying the documentation is not good enough because you choose
> not to read it.  Hmmm.
>
>
>> I program as an exercise in pure poetry, as artistic expression; and how
>> many
>> painters do you know who read everything written on the tubes of paint??????
>>
>> Especially the "see also" bits at the bottom of the 'tube'.
> To be fair, "See Also" is the 3rd block down in the docs, pretty well "above
> the fold".  And if your tube of paint required an operating system to run,
> shipped with dozens of example tubes and documentation describing how best
> to apply the paint, explaining what media are most suitable for the paint,
> then it seems pretty likely you would crack open the docs at some point.

Point to you . . . :)  I, honestly, find that continually looking up
things in
the documentation can get so stifling it cramps all the other thought
patterns
necessary to program effectively.

> Please.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX Design
>
>
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Re: Survey Caution

JB
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
They didn't even send me one.  Ever since I complained about the
last survey I don't get news letters anymore either.  I have checked
my spam folder.  Not that it sounds like I am missing much I just
thought I would let you know now that you have complained you
might be on the wrong list or off the depending on how it works.

-=>JB<=-



On May 29, 2010, at 6:02 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Joe F. wrote:
>
> > I'm in the middle of taking this new survey when I realized that 1
> > is "most important" and 5 "least important"
>
> That's exactly backwards from every survey I've ever seen.
>
> Hint:  5 is greater than 1. ;)
>
> I wonder how many other results are as invalid as mine were because  
> of that unusual scale....
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>  revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

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Re: Survey Caution

mwieder
In reply to this post by Stephen Barncard-4
stephen-

Saturday, May 29, 2010, 2:15:56 PM, you wrote:

> My personal experience with looking at the 'see also' links is that they are
> incredibly valuable when working with previously unknown functions,

I often find that the "see also" links get me where I wanted to go,
rather than my first guess at what I thought I wanted...

--
-Mark Wieder
 [hidden email]

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Re: Survey Caution

Cal Horner-2
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
Being "Cack-handed", I had no trouble at all.
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Re: Survey Caution

Björnke von Gierke
In reply to this post by mwieder
The "see also" links are the single most important part of the documentation. they beat the description itself. It's a shame that RunRev somewhen decided to put them inline into the field  (i think it was in rev 2.2), where they're hard to find (variable positioning below other, less important stuff).

The main reason I made BvG Docu was to get decent usage out of see also. Although slightly less feature laden then the build in way to look at the documentation, I still prefer it due to this single difference. It can be downloaded from my site, <http://bjoernke.com>.

On 30 May 2010, at 00:56, Mark Wieder wrote:

> stephen-
>
> Saturday, May 29, 2010, 2:15:56 PM, you wrote:
>
>> My personal experience with looking at the 'see also' links is that they are
>> incredibly valuable when working with previously unknown functions,
>
> I often find that the "see also" links get me where I wanted to go,
> rather than my first guess at what I thought I wanted...



--

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"

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Re: Survey Caution

Trevor DeVore
In reply to this post by Jim Kanter
On May 29, 2010, at 1:45 PM, Jim Kanter wrote:

> This is becoming an interesting survey about who actually reads
> instructions and who just assumes the way things are...

I had a graphics teacher in high school that became so fed up with  
students not reading instructions (and thus wasting materials) that he  
began puttingspecial instructions at the top of every test. The  
instructions spelled out how you should take the test, which questions  
to answer, etc. If you didn't read them you definitely wouldn't pass.

I've been an instruction reader ever since :-)

A favorite quote: "If all else fails—Please! Follow instructions."

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
Releasable Revolution Resources for Developers: http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com_______________________________________________
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