[Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

Alejandro Tejada
Hi Andre,

Andre Garzia-3 wrote
[snip]
Not enough people know about Rio and Brazil in "Real Life", all they know is
old Hollywood stereotypes. If they knew that here in Rio, the violence
already killed more than the vietnam war then they would think twice about
calling this a peaceful place. At least now they are seeing on TV that it is
a war, finally, after 30 years someone is telling the truth.
[snip]
Actually, there are more recent stereotypes:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317248/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1324968/

But this situation got me thinking:
Are you planning to stay living in Brasil
(near those dangerous places in the city
where you live) or are you planning to leave
for a safest place, inside Brasil or in another
country?

After you decide to create your own family,
those concerns take first place...

Alejandro


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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

Jonathan Lynch
That is how I feel.

It is amazing how much more cautious we become after having kids.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Alejandro Tejada <[hidden email]>
Sender: [hidden email]
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 15:32:27
To: <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: How to use LiveCode <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war


Hi Andre,


Andre Garzia-3 wrote:

>
> [snip]
> Not enough people know about Rio and Brazil in "Real Life", all they know
> is
> old Hollywood stereotypes. If they knew that here in Rio, the violence
> already killed more than the vietnam war then they would think twice about
> calling this a peaceful place. At least now they are seeing on TV that it
> is
> a war, finally, after 30 years someone is telling the truth.
> [snip]
>

Actually, there are more recent stereotypes:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317248/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1324968/

But this situation got me thinking:
Are you planning to stay living in Brasil
(near those dangerous places in the city
where you live) or are you planning to leave
for a safest place, inside Brasil or in another
country?

After you decide to create your own family,
those concerns take first place...

Alejandro



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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

Martin Koob
In reply to this post by Andre Garzia-3
>
Hi Andre

I heard about this on the news this morning but did not realize
the extent of what was happening.   It is being
covered here in Canada.  

<http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/
americas/brazilian-cops-and-military-surround-search-gang-turf/
article1814611/>

Your report though really gives a truer picture
of what is really going on.  

The more people around the world know what
is going on the more support the people have to
get rid of the criminal organizations.

I hope you are safe and I hope you and your
 fellow citizens are soon free of the criminal
organizations and can walk in you city
freely and safely.

Martin

Andre Garzia <andre@...> writes:

>
> Thanks Richmond and Haroldo,
>
> Things here are heavy but the police is winning and this is good. If you
> guys seen the slideshow I posted earlier in the thread you'll see that our
> police ressembles an army, simple uniformed cops can't handle what is
> happening here right now.
>
> goverment deployed the army here so that violence doesn't spread in the city
> of Rio more than it already did. My city niteroi has no army presence and
> our police officers are probably on Rio helping, so we're left alone and
> crime waves are common these days. Damn, not enough cops.
>
> Well, I am safe and will have fondue tonigh, cheese makes me very happy.
>
> Thanks for the prayers and the candles, we all need help in here.
>
> Andre
>



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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

Andrew Kluthe
In reply to this post by Devin Asay
And the social war rages on.
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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

slylabs13
In reply to this post by Andre Garzia-3
Wow. It never ceases to amaze me what really newsworthy stuff never gets past our liberal media. I am willing to bet that the major media outlets here in the US never puts this out, at least not until the internet blogs are all over it. But never mind that, may God watch over and protect you and yours in this trying time.

On a side note, I think everyone in the world needs to understand this now: Organized criminals cannot be tolerated. They will never leave well enough alone. To become anyone especially notable in these organizations, you have to cast down any humanity you have left and become a viscous animal. They must be put down as soon as they present a major problem, otherwise you get what Andre is seeing now.

America is no different. I think a LOT of tax revenues end up in the bank accounts of organized crime through corrupt politicians. Otherwise, why wouldn't a decent politician NOT do a major audit of state and/or federal finances? Everyone in America who pays taxes would ABSOLUTELY LOVE any politician who did this and published the results as a pre-cursor to cutting back on spending, but no one touches it. Why? Because no one really wants to know where all the money is going, that's why.

Mind you, this is not the same thing as an organized group rising up among the people of a given country to topple a hopelessly corrupt tyrannical government. Revolution is a kind of cleansing rain for civilizations. The only problem now is how to replace the prior government with people who are not as corrupt! And that is a function of how morally strong the people themselves are. It's hard sometime to tell the difference between a just revolution and a civil war between rival factions of criminals.  

Bob


On Nov 26, 2010, at 9:00 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Folks,
>
> This is just a heads up plus me needing to vent it out. Rio de Janeiro is in
> a state of un-assumed war for a week now. Criminal factions are trying to
> spread terror by burning car, buses and whatever they can on the street,
> sometimes without giving any warning to those inside. We're living with this
> crap for so long that we're not impressed anymore.
<snip>
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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

slylabs13
In reply to this post by Stephen Barncard-4
Actually, we have this on a smaller scale in Arizona, but the major media companies don't seem to think it newsworthy. There are large tracts of land along the Arizona border that are off limits to Americans because drug cartels have infested them. They are escorting slave labor through corridors we know about armed with military grade weapons and will shoot on sight anyone they encounter.

As I said in my last post, this cannot be tolerated any longer. Everyone in the world needs to stand up together and support the elimination, dare I say the extermination of all organized crime groups, and that will mean war and a lot of good people will probably die, but then in the end that will be the case anyway, and we won't be able to stop it if we don't stop it now.

Bob


On Nov 26, 2010, at 9:52 AM, stephen barncard wrote:

> You are being very stoic - of course this should not be normal. We in the US
> complain about everything all the time - but we don't have anything like
> what's happening in your country.


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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

slylabs13
In reply to this post by Andre Garzia-3
If I were you I'd leave for the conference now.

Bob


On Nov 26, 2010, at 10:20 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Eeek! the army just deployed 800 soldiers in Rio right now, things are about
> to get ugly...
>
> :-/
>
> Well, I will be at the next conference, it will be good to have some days of
> this whole situation.


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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

slylabs13
In reply to this post by Jonathan Lynch
I think Brazil's countryside is jungle. I could be wrong, but if I am not, it probably is not a whole lot safer for anyone not accustomed to it.

Bob


On Nov 26, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Jonathan Lynch wrote:

> It seems like people would move out to the countryside, under situations
> like what is described here. I would. I know I am missing something obvious.
> I really feel for you, Andre.


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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

Marian Petrides, MD
In reply to this post by slylabs13
Hey, Andre

If you need a place stateside to evacuate to, you would definitely be welcome to visit the kids (canine, of course) and me. We've got lots of room and plenty of Macs, too. Like I said earlier, be safe, good buddy.

Marian, Pepper, and the Skipster


On Nov 29, 2010, at 12:51 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

> Actually, we have this on a smaller scale in Arizona, but the major media companies don't seem to think it newsworthy. There are large tracts of land along the Arizona border that are off limits to Americans because drug cartels have infested them. They are escorting slave labor through corridors we know about armed with military grade weapons and will shoot on sight anyone they encounter.
>
> As I said in my last post, this cannot be tolerated any longer. Everyone in the world needs to stand up together and support the elimination, dare I say the extermination of all organized crime groups, and that will mean war and a lot of good people will probably die, but then in the end that will be the case anyway, and we won't be able to stop it if we don't stop it now.
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Nov 26, 2010, at 9:52 AM, stephen barncard wrote:
>
>> You are being very stoic - of course this should not be normal. We in the US
>> complain about everything all the time - but we don't have anything like
>> what's happening in your country.
>
>
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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

Andre Garzia-3
In reply to this post by slylabs13
Bob,

heehehehe thanks for the emails and no, Brazil is not a big jungle as people
tend to think. Actually it is not like the FARC that can hide in the jungle
for decades, here they hide in plain sight inside the slums.

And no, elimination will solve nothing. Elimation is not the answer for it
creates a gap that is soon filled by even more violent groups. If you
escalate, so will them. Solution is long term policy of occupation and
giving poor people education, medcare and jobs. This solves problems, the
solution is education + health + jobs. Right now, we need occupation but
this will never solve anything like people from U.S. are now finally
learning from iraq. Occupation will give you order but progress will come
out of positive actions of creating the means and oportunities that are so
good that people will prefer it to crime

The peace/pacifying police units will provide order there and things will
slowly get better. We still have lots of other guys to take down, there are
the milita which are former police officers or current police officers that
play both side. We have corrupt goverment fundind everything... there is a
lot of room to work but the foundation is set, slums will be pacified and
from there things will go up. I hope.

(actually this operation was bloodless compared to what I've seen before,
lots of property were damaged but the loss of lives was minimal, which is
good. I think no civilian died which is a first in here)

we'll see in two weeks how things go...

Now if you guys want to check, the pictures from yesterday

http://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/rio-contra-o-crime/fotos/2010/11/fotos-da-onda-de-violencia-no-rio-de-janeiro.html
(Globo News: Rio against Crime special feature)

There are some pretty pics of police officers with kids...


On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Bob Sneidar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think Brazil's countryside is jungle. I could be wrong, but if I am not,
> it probably is not a whole lot safer for anyone not accustomed to it.
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Nov 26, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Jonathan Lynch wrote:
>
> > It seems like people would move out to the countryside, under situations
> > like what is described here. I would. I know I am missing something
> obvious.
> > I really feel for you, Andre.
>
>
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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

Richmond Mathewson-2
In reply to this post by Marian Petrides, MD
We have bags of space here in Bulgaria, too . . . .  :)
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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by Andre Garzia-3
I'm always glad to see you write, Andre, because it reassures me you are
okay.

CNN had a brief report on Rio two days ago, and our newspaper here has
started to do coverage. Yesterday there was a half-page article, which
was quite a lot here, considering we are complacent Americans and Brazil
is a foreign country. So at least it is getting some attention where I
am in the U.S.

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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

Jonathan Lynch
I agree with Andre that it is all about wise investments in human capital.

The details as to how to do that, though, are very challenging.

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 5:31 PM, J. Landman Gay <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I'm always glad to see you write, Andre, because it reassures me you are
> okay.
>
> CNN had a brief report on Rio two days ago, and our newspaper here has
> started to do coverage. Yesterday there was a half-page article, which was
> quite a lot here, considering we are complacent Americans and Brazil is a
> foreign country. So at least it is getting some attention where I am in the
> U.S.
>
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

Pierre Sahores-3
Andre,

Thanks for your posts. France-Culture has began to report what happens in Rio. Be careful.

Kind Regards,

Pierre


Le 29 nov. 2010 à 23:43, Jonathan Lynch a écrit :

> I agree with Andre that it is all about wise investments in human capital.
>
> The details as to how to do that, though, are very challenging.
>
> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 5:31 PM, J. Landman Gay <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> I'm always glad to see you write, Andre, because it reassures me you are
>> okay.
>>
>> CNN had a brief report on Rio two days ago, and our newspaper here has
>> started to do coverage. Yesterday there was a half-page article, which was
>> quite a lot here, considering we are complacent Americans and Brazil is a
>> foreign country. So at least it is getting some attention where I am in the
>> U.S.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Do all things with love
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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

Andre Garzia-3
Folks,

Thanks for all the kind words and offers of prayers and housing. It is
wonderful to know that I have such good friends. The "Rio Against Crime"
operation is a success. Both shantytown complexes were taken back by our
goverment forces. Military presence will stay there for more seven months
while the peace police unit is built and installed. It's been many days
without attacks, shoots or victims. We're now on the phase they call "fine
combing" where houses are searched and arrests made.

There is a clear probability that many criminals fled to my own city as it
usually happens when Rio does such operations. They fled to my city which is
the other side of the bay, it is a different city even though you can reach
Rio in 10 minutes by ferry boat. So soon there might be investigations and
arrests made here. In general the populace is very happy with the outcome
and this one is going into history as a success.

I never liked our army. Here military service is mandatory and when you are
18, you need to present yourself into a drafting barrack. When I turned 18 I
went to the Third Infantary Battation (3o BI), the acronym B.I. is for
Infantary Battalion but in portuguese they say it also stand for "Buraco do
Inferno" which means third hell hole and it feels like that. They made me do
flip flops naked with other 40 naked-as-well guys, it is not a very good
experience. I was enrolled at a university, so, I was prime material because
they decided they didn't want the common guy anymore but wanted to make the
army smarter by drafting university  students. If you are a grad student,
you will not serve as a low troop, you will have a chance to go to CPOR
which stands for Reserve Officer Preparatory College and will enter the army
as a third grade lieutenant. We were 40 students, they said we were all
drafted but there were only 20 spots for CPOR so we had to work it out with
exams and physical tests to decided who were the best, the rest would be
foot soldiers. It was nightmarish. When I passed all tests and they were
measuring me for my uniform, I took the last medical exam which was the
dentist. The dialog was like this:

Dentist: "son, do you want to serve?"
me: "No, sir, no!"
Dentist: "Well, it happens that you have a scoliosis..." (a dentist
diagnosed me with scoliosis)
me: "My back is perfect sir!"
Dentist: "I said it is not so you can't serve the army!"
me: "Thank you sir!"

And I left...

I never liked our police, specially the military police. I've been
blackmailed by them. Beaten by them in more than one occasion. Once I was
camping at a hippie spot popular for liberal recreational drug use. I never
ever did any drug besides php and c++. Dialog with military police low
officer was like this:

bastard cop: "Hey, show me the drugs now!"
me: "No drugs in here, can you please low your revolver"
bastard cop: "I said where are the drugs!"
me: "I don't do drugs. I have no weapon and am sitting on the floor. You
will low that damn weapon now."
bastard cop: "I will search your tent." (but he lowered the damn thing)
me: "Ok!" (he starts unassembling my maglite)
me: "You will put it back together?"
me: "You know, you picked the single person in this camping ground who
doesn't do drugs..."
bastard cop: "Think yourself funny kid?"
me: "Oh yes!"
(then he slapped me in the face, which made me angry)
bastard cop: "Still funny?"
me: "Even better! Now, will you put my torchlight back together?" (and I was
beaten for a while)
me: "Heck, you can't even assemble the thing back!"

He went away... there's the time where the federal customs police
asked/demanded a bribe to release my Apple eMate from customs because a
laptop could never cost 20 GBP.

But after this recent operations and the way things were conducted, I am
warming towards those guys. Even though I never liked the army or the
police, I always respected and admired BOPE which is the special ops
battalion. No corruption in there, as they say: "Force and Honor"

Now, to say thanks to everyone, a view from my window. I am on the 18 floor,
two blocks from the guanabara bay.

http://twitpic.com/3blrwb

No matter the violence, this still "Rio, the wonderful city" (and Niterói,
the smiling city)

:-D
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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

Alejandro Tejada
Andre, your optimism know no boundaries! :-)

And I do really have an Scoliosis.
Some days, like today, i can barely
walk by myself.

Keep up the faith, young man! [thumbs up]

Alejandro
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Re: [Really-OT] Rio is at a state of war

slylabs13
In reply to this post by Andre Garzia-3
You know, I used to talk to my big brother like that. And do you know, I got the same dam treatment?? How odd...

Bob


On Nov 30, 2010, at 5:45 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Dialog with military police low
> officer was like this:
>
> bastard cop: "Hey, show me the drugs now!"
> me: "No drugs in here, can you please low your revolver"
> bastard cop: "I said where are the drugs!"
> me: "I don't do drugs. I have no weapon and am sitting on the floor. You
> will low that damn weapon now."
> bastard cop: "I will search your tent." (but he lowered the damn thing)
> me: "Ok!" (he starts unassembling my maglite)
> me: "You will put it back together?"
> me: "You know, you picked the single person in this camping ground who
> doesn't do drugs..."
> bastard cop: "Think yourself funny kid?"
> me: "Oh yes!"
> (then he slapped me in the face, which made me angry)
> bastard cop: "Still funny?"
> me: "Even better! Now, will you put my torchlight back together?" (and I was
> beaten for a while)
> me: "Heck, you can't even assemble the thing back!"


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