Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

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Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

J. Landman Gay
Just a word of warning. The stack file format in 2.7 has changed. Be
aware that any stacks you save in 2.7 will not open again in earlier
versions. Make backups if you plan to work on stacks later with older
engines.

This behavior is marginally documented in the What's New file, but
doesn't spell out the consequences.

--
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HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

J. Landman Gay
I wrote:
> Just a word of warning. The stack file format in 2.7 has changed. Be
> aware that any stacks you save in 2.7 will not open again in earlier
> versions. Make backups if you plan to work on stacks later with older
> engines.
>
> This behavior is marginally documented in the What's New file, but
> doesn't spell out the consequences.
>

Before I panic everyone on the list for the second time today, there's a
way to back out of this change and make the stack 2.4 compatible again,
but you'll lose any 2.7 features if you do it. The info was not included
in the What's New file, so I'm not sure if it's okay to post it here. To
be safe, just plan on working on duplicates.

--
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HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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RE: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

MisterX

 thanks very much for pointing this out...
 it's better safe now than panic after!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> J. Landman Gay
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 February, 2006 06:11
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!
>
> I wrote:
> > Just a word of warning. The stack file format in 2.7 has
> changed. Be
> > aware that any stacks you save in 2.7 will not open again
> in earlier
> > versions. Make backups if you plan to work on stacks later
> with older
> > engines.
> >
> > This behavior is marginally documented in the What's New file, but
> > doesn't spell out the consequences.
> >
>
> Before I panic everyone on the list for the second time
> today, there's a way to back out of this change and make the
> stack 2.4 compatible again, but you'll lose any 2.7 features
> if you do it. The info was not included in the What's New
> file, so I'm not sure if it's okay to post it here. To be
> safe, just plan on working on duplicates.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

Rob Cozens
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay
Jacque, et al:

> The stack file format in 2.7 has changed. Be aware that any stacks you
> save in 2.7 will not open again in earlier versions.

Runtime Revolution, like HyperCard, now has different versions of
software in use around the world producing incompatible output.  What
does this mean for people offering plugIns and other stacks to the RR
community?

* Initially, it would seem logical that all public stacks that don't
include 2.7 features be submitted in Rev. 2.6.? (or earlier) format.

* Stacks in Rev. 2.7 format should be clearly identified as such...and
preferably downloaded from a separate window.

Note this makes it necessary for people like moi to maintain two
versions of Revolution in able to offer Rev. 2.6.? owners upgrades to
our publicly-distributed stacks.

And what of someone who buys her first RR license today?  Is she stuck
distributing stacks only to Rev.2.7+ users, or downloading, installing,
and working in two versions?

Pardon me for not checking:  is there a Bugzilla request for a Rev.2.7
utility to convert any stack not using 2.7 features to Rev. 2.6.? file
structure?  If so, can someone post its #; if not, should there be?

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

Eric Chatonet
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay
Hi everyone,

I second Rob with all my might.
The result of this format change is pathetic.

This means that Rev 2.6.1 *must* be used to build stacks able to be  
shared with the community (i.e. without the ability of using next Rev  
versions enhancements).
And for those who will not have Rev prior to 2.7, they have to know  
that only a part of the community will be able to open their stacks...
Obviously, Runrev missed something important here.
I don't imagine they have deliberately put all of us providing  
plugins, libraries, utilities or simple stacks on RevOnline (built  
with 2.7) in such a mess.
Now, I come back into my hole waiting for Runrev res(v)olution.

Regards,
Eric Chatonet

PS. In addition, with 2.7 (and not with other versions), plugins that  
perform some process at Rev startup (asking for a file that was not  
found as Rev Online Watcher, for instance) make Rev startup hanging  
up with the splash screen in the middle...

Le 23 févr. 06 à 17:21, Rob Cozens a écrit :

>> The stack file format in 2.7 has changed. Be aware that any stacks  
>> you save in 2.7 will not open again in earlier versions.
>
> Runtime Revolution, like HyperCard, now has different versions of  
> software in use around the world producing incompatible output.  
> What does this mean for people offering plugIns and other stacks to  
> the RR community?
>
> * Initially, it would seem logical that all public stacks that  
> don't include 2.7 features be submitted in Rev. 2.6.? (or earlier)  
> format.
>
> * Stacks in Rev. 2.7 format should be clearly identified as  
> such...and preferably downloaded from a separate window.
>
> Note this makes it necessary for people like moi to maintain two  
> versions of Revolution in able to offer Rev. 2.6.? owners upgrades  
> to our publicly-distributed stacks.
>
> And what of someone who buys her first RR license today?  Is she  
> stuck distributing stacks only to Rev.2.7+ users, or downloading,  
> installing, and working in two versions?
>
> Pardon me for not checking:  is there a Bugzilla request for a Rev.
> 2.7 utility to convert any stack not using 2.7 features to Rev.  
> 2.6.? file structure?  If so, can someone post its #; if not,  
> should there be?
>
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------
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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

Eric Chatonet
In reply to this post by Rob Cozens
Hi everyone,

I second Rob with all my might.
The result of this format change is pathetic.

This means that Rev 2.6.1 *must* be used to build stacks able to be  
shared with the community (i.e. without the ability of using next Rev  
versions enhancements).
And for those who will not have Rev prior to 2.7, they have to know  
that only a part of the community will be able to open their stacks...
Obviously, Runrev missed something important here.
I don't imagine they have deliberately put all of us providing  
plugins, libraries, utilities or simple stacks on RevOnline (built  
with 2.7) in such a mess.

In addition, with 2.7 (and not with other versions), plugins that  
perform some process at Rev startup (asking for a file that was not  
found as Rev Online Watcher, for instance) make Rev startup hanging  
up with the splash screen in the middle...

Now, I come back into my hole waiting for Runrev res(v)olution.

Regards,
Eric Chatonet

Le 23 févr. 06 à 17:21, Rob Cozens a écrit :

>> The stack file format in 2.7 has changed. Be aware that any stacks  
>> you save in 2.7 will not open again in earlier versions.
>
> Runtime Revolution, like HyperCard, now has different versions of  
> software in use around the world producing incompatible output.  
> What does this mean for people offering plugIns and other stacks to  
> the RR community?
>
> * Initially, it would seem logical that all public stacks that  
> don't include 2.7 features be submitted in Rev. 2.6.? (or earlier)  
> format.
>
> * Stacks in Rev. 2.7 format should be clearly identified as  
> such...and preferably downloaded from a separate window.
>
> Note this makes it necessary for people like moi to maintain two  
> versions of Revolution in able to offer Rev. 2.6.? owners upgrades  
> to our publicly-distributed stacks.
>
> And what of someone who buys her first RR license today?  Is she  
> stuck distributing stacks only to Rev.2.7+ users, or downloading,  
> installing, and working in two versions?
>
> Pardon me for not checking:  is there a Bugzilla request for a Rev.
> 2.7 utility to convert any stack not using 2.7 features to Rev.  
> 2.6.? file structure?  If so, can someone post its #; if not,  
> should there be?
>
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------
http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/    [hidden email]/


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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by Rob Cozens
Rob Cozens wrote:

> Jacque, et al:
>
>> The stack file format in 2.7 has changed. Be aware that any stacks you
>> save in 2.7 will not open again in earlier versions.
>
>
> Runtime Revolution, like HyperCard, now has different versions of
> software in use around the world producing incompatible output.  What
> does this mean for people offering plugIns and other stacks to the RR
> community?

It isn't any different than when HyperCard made the change. Once
converted, a stack in HC 2.0 format would not open in HC 1.0. The
community survived. We'll need the same period of adjustment for this
change in Revolution.

Chipp's plugin will allow you to distribute stacks that open in either
version, so if your contributions are for the general public, you can
use the plugin before releasing the stack.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

Rob Cozens
Jacque, et al:

> It isn't any different than when HyperCard made the change

Unless memory fails me, yes it is: that upgrade was free to owners of
the previous version.

Do you intend to distribute all future stacks you release publicly in
v.2.7+ and leave people who continue to work in v<2.7 out in the cold?

Does anyone but moi feel it's ironic that RunRev v2.7 can create apps
for "Classic" Mac OS, which has been off the market for years, but
can't create a file readable by RunRev v2.6, which was being
distributed a few weeks ago?

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

J. Landman Gay
Rob Cozens wrote:
> Jacque, et al:
>
>> It isn't any different than when HyperCard made the change
>
>
> Unless memory fails me, yes it is: that upgrade was free to owners of
> the previous version.

I believe the 2.x update happened when HC was moved to Claris and we had
to start buying our copies. At any rate, in order to provide the new 2.7
features, the file format had to be expanded. There was no room left in
the old format to do what was needed. Scott Raney had to do the same
thing several times in MetaCard too, and his updates were not free. I
never saw any complaints about it; of course, that was a somewhat
different user base than we have here now.

>
> Do you intend to distribute all future stacks you release publicly in
> v.2.7+ and leave people who continue to work in v<2.7 out in the cold?

I rarely release this kind of stack (almost all my work is NDA) but if I
did, I would save stacks in 2.6 format for at least a while. It's a
minor thing.

> Does anyone but moi feel it's ironic that RunRev v2.7 can create apps
> for "Classic" Mac OS, which has been off the market for years, but can't
> create a file readable by RunRev v2.6, which was being distributed a few
> weeks ago?

I'm not sure what else they could have done. The old file format was
full and needed to be extended. What would a 2.6 engine do when it hit
all the new code in a 2.7 file?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

Thomas McGrath III
Thanks J,

This does clear things up for me. It is totally understandable now  
why they need to upgrade the version number and that it is normal too.

Thanks

Tom

On Feb 23, 2006, at 6:53 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Rob Cozens wrote:
>> Jacque, et al:
>>> It isn't any different than when HyperCard made the change
>> Unless memory fails me, yes it is: that upgrade was free to owners  
>> of the previous version.
>
> I believe the 2.x update happened when HC was moved to Claris and  
> we had to start buying our copies. At any rate, in order to provide  
> the new 2.7 features, the file format had to be expanded. There was  
> no room left in the old format to do what was needed. Scott Raney  
> had to do the same thing several times in MetaCard too, and his  
> updates were not free. I never saw any complaints about it; of  
> course, that was a somewhat different user base than we have here now.
>
>> Do you intend to distribute all future stacks you release publicly  
>> in v.2.7+ and leave people who continue to work in v<2.7 out in  
>> the cold?
>
> I rarely release this kind of stack (almost all my work is NDA) but  
> if I did, I would save stacks in 2.6 format for at least a while.  
> It's a minor thing.
>
>> Does anyone but moi feel it's ironic that RunRev v2.7 can create  
>> apps for "Classic" Mac OS, which has been off the market for  
>> years, but can't create a file readable by RunRev v2.6, which was  
>> being distributed a few weeks ago?
>
> I'm not sure what else they could have done. The old file format  
> was full and needed to be extended. What would a 2.6 engine do when  
> it hit all the new code in a 2.7 file?
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

David Burgun
In reply to this post by MisterX
Hi All,

I really can't understand all the mystery surrounding this "fix" to  
allow backwards compatibility. As far as I understand it, there is a  
way to tell the engine to save in the old format or the new format,  
with version 2.7 defaulting to the newer format. That all sounds  
reasonable. What I can't understand is why how to do it is a  
"secret"? There is a protected IDE plug-in available that allows you  
to save in either format, but since it is protected, the details are  
hidden. There is no real mention of it on the RunRev Web Site or in  
the Documentation as far as I can see. Leaving this "hanging" like  
this is just bound to lead to problems IMO. Problems that could be so  
easily avoided just by either shipping the PlugIn with the release,  
or having an IDE command or preference to select it or by just  
documenting exactly how to do it.

Anyone have any ideas on this mystery?????

All the Best
Dave

>> Before I panic everyone on the list for the second time
>> today, there's a way to back out of this change and make the
>> stack 2.4 compatible again, but you'll lose any 2.7 features
>> if you do it. The info was not included in the What's New
>> file, so I'm not sure if it's okay to post it here. To be
>> safe, just plan on working on duplicates.


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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

Chipp Walters
Hi Dave,

I had contacted Mark a bit ago about the stackFileVersion property and
he said it's ok to mention it, but it might be renamed or go away later,
so it's not officially supported.

If you click the 'update' button on the StackFormat plugin of mine,
you'll download a new version which isn't protected. You can look in the
checkbox script to see how to set this global property.

Or, if you don't have it just type into your message box:

go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/StackFormat.rev"

best,

Chipp

David Burgun wrote:

> Anyone have any ideas on this mystery?????

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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

Geoff Canyon
In reply to this post by David Burgun
I think saving in the pre-2.7 format is available in the upcoming  
release.

gc

On Apr 20, 2006, at 2:41 AM, David Burgun wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I really can't understand all the mystery surrounding this "fix" to  
> allow backwards compatibility. As far as I understand it, there is  
> a way to tell the engine to save in the old format or the new  
> format, with version 2.7 defaulting to the newer format. That all  
> sounds reasonable. What I can't understand is why how to do it is a  
> "secret"? There is a protected IDE plug-in available that allows  
> you to save in either format, but since it is protected, the  
> details are hidden. There is no real mention of it on the RunRev  
> Web Site or in the Documentation as far as I can see. Leaving this  
> "hanging" like this is just bound to lead to problems IMO. Problems  
> that could be so easily avoided just by either shipping the PlugIn  
> with the release, or having an IDE command or preference to select  
> it or by just documenting exactly how to do it.
>
> Anyone have any ideas on this mystery?????
>
> All the Best
> Dave
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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by David Burgun
David Burgun wrote:
>
> I really can't understand all the mystery surrounding this "fix" to  
> allow backwards compatibility.

The beta testers know about it (if you purchase Enterprise, you are
automatically on that list,) but the details were pulled from the final
release for a number of reasons. However the upcoming 2.7.1 has an
interface that allows you to save in either file format. It isn't really
a secret, RR just doesn't support its use yet.

--
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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

David Burgun
In reply to this post by Geoff Canyon
I hope so! That's great!

All the Best
Dave

On 20 Apr 2006, at 14:36, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> I think saving in the pre-2.7 format is available in the upcoming  
> release.
>
> gc
>
> On Apr 20, 2006, at 2:41 AM, David Burgun wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I really can't understand all the mystery surrounding this "fix"  
>> to allow backwards compatibility. As far as I understand it, there  
>> is a way to tell the engine to save in the old format or the new  
>> format, with version 2.7 defaulting to the newer format. That all  
>> sounds reasonable. What I can't understand is why how to do it is  
>> a "secret"? There is a protected IDE plug-in available that allows  
>> you to save in either format, but since it is protected, the  
>> details are hidden. There is no real mention of it on the RunRev  
>> Web Site or in the Documentation as far as I can see. Leaving this  
>> "hanging" like this is just bound to lead to problems IMO.  
>> Problems that could be so easily avoided just by either shipping  
>> the PlugIn with the release, or having an IDE command or  
>> preference to select it or by just documenting exactly how to do it.
>>
>> Anyone have any ideas on this mystery?????
>>
>> All the Best
>> Dave
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

Pierre Sahores
This info is from Guy Petinon (french rev list) :

> Pour changer la version d'une pile:
> ouvri "message boxe" et taper
> "set the stackfileversion to 2.5" par exemple à partir
> de la version 2.7

To change the stack's version from 2.7 to (as an example) to 2.5 :

just type "set the stackfileversion to 2.5" from your 2.7 IDE and  
save the stack !

Best Regards,

Pierre

Le 21 avr. 06 à 13:33, David Burgun a écrit :

> I hope so! That's great!
>
> All the Best
> Dave
>
> On 20 Apr 2006, at 14:36, Geoff Canyon wrote:
>
>> I think saving in the pre-2.7 format is available in the upcoming  
>> release.
>>
>> gc
>>
>> On Apr 20, 2006, at 2:41 AM, David Burgun wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I really can't understand all the mystery surrounding this "fix"  
>>> to allow backwards compatibility. As far as I understand it,  
>>> there is a way to tell the engine to save in the old format or  
>>> the new format, with version 2.7 defaulting to the newer format.  
>>> That all sounds reasonable. What I can't understand is why how to  
>>> do it is a "secret"? There is a protected IDE plug-in available  
>>> that allows you to save in either format, but since it is  
>>> protected, the details are hidden. There is no real mention of it  
>>> on the RunRev Web Site or in the Documentation as far as I can  
>>> see. Leaving this "hanging" like this is just bound to lead to  
>>> problems IMO. Problems that could be so easily avoided just by  
>>> either shipping the PlugIn with the release, or having an IDE  
>>> command or preference to select it or by just documenting exactly  
>>> how to do it.
>>>
>>> Anyone have any ideas on this mystery?????
>>>
>>> All the Best
>>> Dave
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
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>
> _______________________________________________
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--
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www.sahores-conseil.com


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Re: Stack file format change in 2.7 - BACK UP!

David Burgun
Thanks a lot!

All the Best
Dave
On 21 Apr 2006, at 13:51, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> This info is from Guy Petinon (french rev list) :
>
>> Pour changer la version d'une pile:
>> ouvri "message boxe" et taper
>> "set the stackfileversion to 2.5" par exemple à partir
>> de la version 2.7
>
> To change the stack's version from 2.7 to (as an example) to 2.5 :
>
> just type "set the stackfileversion to 2.5" from your 2.7 IDE and  
> save the stack !
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Pierre
>
> Le 21 avr. 06 à 13:33, David Burgun a écrit :
>
>> I hope so! That's great!
>>
>> All the Best
>> Dave
>>
>> On 20 Apr 2006, at 14:36, Geoff Canyon wrote:
>>
>>> I think saving in the pre-2.7 format is available in the upcoming  
>>> release.
>>>
>>> gc
>>>
>>> On Apr 20, 2006, at 2:41 AM, David Burgun wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I really can't understand all the mystery surrounding this "fix"  
>>>> to allow backwards compatibility. As far as I understand it,  
>>>> there is a way to tell the engine to save in the old format or  
>>>> the new format, with version 2.7 defaulting to the newer format.  
>>>> That all sounds reasonable. What I can't understand is why how  
>>>> to do it is a "secret"? There is a protected IDE plug-in  
>>>> available that allows you to save in either format, but since it  
>>>> is protected, the details are hidden. There is no real mention  
>>>> of it on the RunRev Web Site or in the Documentation as far as I  
>>>> can see. Leaving this "hanging" like this is just bound to lead  
>>>> to problems IMO. Problems that could be so easily avoided just  
>>>> by either shipping the PlugIn with the release, or having an IDE  
>>>> command or preference to select it or by just documenting  
>>>> exactly how to do it.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have any ideas on this mystery?????
>>>>
>>>> All the Best
>>>> Dave
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>
> --
> Pierre Sahores
> www.sahores-conseil.com
>
>
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