Stacks whose names start with "rev"

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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
We only needed to make a minor tweak, nothing big, and it didn't take long
when we avoided use of the IDE itself. But we shouldn't have to do that.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [hidden email]
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 3, 2018 4:51:20 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It would be comforting to find how how she got back to work, but since
> she's not here I assume she's busy because she did.



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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
J. Landman Gay wrote:
 > The main thing I needed to know is whether there was an easier way to
 > edit the stack than what we were doing. It seems there isn't.

If "toplevel <stackname>" doesn't work for you then it doesn't work for
the folks at LC Ltd.

I can understand if you don't have time to investigate this, but now I'm
intrigued and wish we knew what made the stack you're working on so
unusually difficult beyond the naming conventions.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
I won't be able to check it for a few days. The problem isn't so much that
I couldn't change the stack but how it got assigned as mode two in the
first place. It was a regular topstack when it was created back in LC 8.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [hidden email]
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 3, 2018 6:44:34 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> J. Landman Gay wrote:
> > The main thing I needed to know is whether there was an easier way to
> > edit the stack than what we were doing. It seems there isn't.
>
> If "toplevel <stackname>" doesn't work for you then it doesn't work for
> the folks at LC Ltd.
>
> I can understand if you don't have time to investigate this, but now I'm
> intrigued and wish we knew what made the stack you're working on so
> unusually difficult beyond the naming conventions.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
I was able to look at this again today. The style of the stack is
toplevel, it is visible and frontmost, but the mode is 2. This is true
whether gRevDevelopment is true or false. Show IDE stacks in Lists is
turned on.

It's stuck that way. LC 9.0.1.

On 10/4/18 12:32 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

> I won't be able to check it for a few days. The problem isn't so much
> that I couldn't change the stack but how it got assigned as mode two in
> the first place. It was a regular topstack when it was created back in
> LC 8.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On October 3, 2018 6:44:34 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> > The main thing I needed to know is whether there was an easier way to
>> > edit the stack than what we were doing. It seems there isn't.
>>
>> If "toplevel <stackname>" doesn't work for you then it doesn't work for
>> the folks at LC Ltd.
>>
>> I can understand if you don't have time to investigate this, but now I'm
>> intrigued and wish we knew what made the stack you're working on so
>> unusually difficult beyond the naming conventions.
>>
>> --
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Systems
>>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>  ____________________________________________________________________
>>  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
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--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
J. Landman Gay wrote:

 > I was able to look at this again today. The style of the stack is
 > toplevel, it is visible and frontmost, but the mode is 2. This is true
 > whether gRevDevelopment is true or false. Show IDE stacks in Lists is
 > turned on.
 >
 > It's stuck that way. LC 9.0.1.

The style is the persistent property which governs mode when opened
using "open" or "go"; the mode is the current actual mode, which can
differ from the style if opened using a mode name as a command (e,g,
"palette <stackname>").

When the mode is 2 that usually means the cantEdit has been set.  This
may have been set somewhere in the IDE, thinking it's an IDE stack.

What happens if you set the cantEdit of the stack to false?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
I checked that early on and again today, cantEdit is false. The style was
reported as toplevel but I set it again anyway in the message box. The
command that opens the stack is a plain "go stack", the same as all the
others in the suite that open normally. GRevDevolppment is true.


The only difference between this stack and hundreds of others is the name,
as far as I can see.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [hidden email]
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 8, 2018 5:35:27 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
> > I was able to look at this again today. The style of the stack is
> > toplevel, it is visible and frontmost, but the mode is 2. This is true
> > whether gRevDevelopment is true or false. Show IDE stacks in Lists is
> > turned on.
> >
> > It's stuck that way. LC 9.0.1.
>
> The style is the persistent property which governs mode when opened
> using "open" or "go"; the mode is the current actual mode, which can
> differ from the style if opened using a mode name as a command (e,g,
> "palette <stackname>").
>
> When the mode is 2 that usually means the cantEdit has been set.  This
> may have been set somewhere in the IDE, thinking it's an IDE stack.
>
> What happens if you set the cantEdit of the stack to false?
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
J. Landman Gay wrote:

 > I checked that early on and again today, cantEdit is false. The style
 > was reported as toplevel but I set it again anyway in the message box.
 > The command that opens the stack is a plain "go stack", the same as
 > all the others in the suite that open normally. GRevDevolppment is
 > true.

If the cantEdit is false but the mode is reported as 2, that sounds like
an engine bug.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
On 10/9/18 1:16 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> If the cantEdit is false but the mode is reported as 2, that sounds like
> an engine bug.

Probably not so much a bug as a design decision. The engine seems to
enforce mode 2 if it thinks the stack is an IDE stack. But that does
raise the question (again) on how the LC team works on those.

I'd like to see this convention removed, and have the engine check for a
custom property or something similar. There are cases where a stack name
does need to start with "rev", but even if it doesn't it is going to
throw off new users. It's an artificial legacy limitation that doesn't
have to exist.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
J. Landman Gay wrote:

 > On 10/9/18 1:16 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
 >> If the cantEdit is false but the mode is reported as 2, that sounds
 >> like an engine bug.
 >
 > Probably not so much a bug as a design decision. The engine seems to
 > enforce mode 2 if it thinks the stack is an IDE stack.

I don't believe that's an engine thing, likely an IDE thing.

And if the team is able to work on their stacks, there must be a way you
can work on yours.


 > I'd like to see this convention removed, and have the engine check for
 > a custom property or something similar. There are cases where a stack
 > name does need to start with "rev", but even if it doesn't it is going
 > to throw off new users. It's an artificial legacy limitation that
 > doesn't have to exist.

Good call. A custom property seems much simpler for everyone.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Hi Jacque

I’m sorry I haven’t been following this whole thread so forgive me if my responses have already been covered.

> On 10 Oct 2018, at 6:22 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >> If the cantEdit is false but the mode is reported as 2, that sounds
> >> like an engine bug.

Don't you mean cantModify here?

toplevel stacks that are ide stacks are forced to toplevel locked (mode 2). We determine this through a stack custom property `ideOverride`. If that is true when loading the stack from disk then it is set as an IDE stack. Additionally there is a runtime property of stacks that you can set `_ideoverride` that can turn this behavior on and off.

Jacque’s issue is we have an IDE script that dynamically sets these in revfrontsciptlibrary preOpenStack:

   if revIDEObjectIsOnIDEStack(tTarget) then
      # IM-2016-03-01: [[ Bug 16244 ]] IDE stacks should always hide invisible objects
      set the showInvisibles of stack tStack to false
      set the _ideoverride of stack tStack to true
   end if

It all hinges on a function in revcommonlibrary:

function revStackNameIsIDEStack pStackName
   if there is a stack pStackName and the _ideoverride of stack pStackName then
      return true
   else if pStackName is among the items of "message box,answer dialog,ask dialog,home" then
      return true
   else if pStackName begins with "com.livecode." then
      return true
   else if pStackName is among the lines of revInternal__ListLoadedLibraries() then
      return true
   else
      return pStackName begins with "rev"
   end if  
end revStackNameIsIDEStack

We could look at changing that to ensure the filename of the stack is an IDE or plugin file path but in your case just patching that to set the caseSensitive to true just before checking for “rev” would cover it.

Cheers

Monte


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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Thanks very much Monte, that's exactly what I wanted to know. For simple
editing it sounds like I could just turn off messages, open the stack from
Finder, and turn messages back on, bypassing preOpenStack entirely. If that
doesn't work you've given me a couple of other things to try.

I'd still like to know the reason for the bizarre error warning, but one
thing at a time. It was odd but wasn't a blocker.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [hidden email]
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 9, 2018 5:33:59 PM Monte Goulding via use-livecode
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jacque
>
> I’m sorry I haven’t been following this whole thread so forgive me if my
> responses have already been covered.
>
>> On 10 Oct 2018, at 6:22 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>> If the cantEdit is false but the mode is reported as 2, that sounds
>>>> like an engine bug.
>
> Don't you mean cantModify here?
>
> toplevel stacks that are ide stacks are forced to toplevel locked (mode 2).
> We determine this through a stack custom property `ideOverride`. If that is
> true when loading the stack from disk then it is set as an IDE stack.
> Additionally there is a runtime property of stacks that you can set
> `_ideoverride` that can turn this behavior on and off.
>
> Jacque’s issue is we have an IDE script that dynamically sets these in
> revfrontsciptlibrary preOpenStack:
>
>   if revIDEObjectIsOnIDEStack(tTarget) then
>      # IM-2016-03-01: [[ Bug 16244 ]] IDE stacks should always hide invisible
>      objects
>      set the showInvisibles of stack tStack to false
>      set the _ideoverride of stack tStack to true
>   end if
>
> It all hinges on a function in revcommonlibrary:
>
> function revStackNameIsIDEStack pStackName
>   if there is a stack pStackName and the _ideoverride of stack pStackName then
>      return true
>   else if pStackName is among the items of "message box,answer dialog,ask
>   dialog,home" then
>      return true
>   else if pStackName begins with "com.livecode." then
>      return true
>   else if pStackName is among the lines of revInternal__ListLoadedLibraries()
>   then
>      return true
>   else
>      return pStackName begins with "rev"
>   end if
> end revStackNameIsIDEStack
>
> We could look at changing that to ensure the filename of the stack is an
> IDE or plugin file path but in your case just patching that to set the
> caseSensitive to true just before checking for “rev” would cover it.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
For anyone following this, simply opening the stack with messages turned
off doesn't work for very long. As soon as you perform any significant
action (click a control, change cards, etc.) the stack is reset to mode
2. But doing this in the message box does persist:

   set the _ideoverride of stack <whatever> to false

On 10/10/18 11:29 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

> Thanks very much Monte, that's exactly what I wanted to know. For simple
> editing it sounds like I could just turn off messages, open the stack
> from Finder, and turn messages back on, bypassing preOpenStack entirely.
> If that doesn't work you've given me a couple of other things to try.
>
> I'd still like to know the reason for the bizarre error warning, but one
> thing at a time. It was odd but wasn't a blocker.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On October 9, 2018 5:33:59 PM Monte Goulding via use-livecode
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jacque
>>
>> I’m sorry I haven’t been following this whole thread so forgive me if
>> my responses have already been covered.
>>
>>> On 10 Oct 2018, at 6:22 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> If the cantEdit is false but the mode is reported as 2, that sounds
>>>>> like an engine bug.
>>
>> Don't you mean cantModify here?
>>
>> toplevel stacks that are ide stacks are forced to toplevel locked
>> (mode 2). We determine this through a stack custom property
>> `ideOverride`. If that is true when loading the stack from disk then
>> it is set as an IDE stack. Additionally there is a runtime property of
>> stacks that you can set `_ideoverride` that can turn this behavior on
>> and off.
>>
>> Jacque’s issue is we have an IDE script that dynamically sets these in
>> revfrontsciptlibrary preOpenStack:
>>
>>   if revIDEObjectIsOnIDEStack(tTarget) then
>>      # IM-2016-03-01: [[ Bug 16244 ]] IDE stacks should always hide
>> invisible      objects
>>      set the showInvisibles of stack tStack to false
>>      set the _ideoverride of stack tStack to true
>>   end if
>>
>> It all hinges on a function in revcommonlibrary:
>>
>> function revStackNameIsIDEStack pStackName
>>   if there is a stack pStackName and the _ideoverride of stack
>> pStackName then
>>      return true
>>   else if pStackName is among the items of "message box,answer
>> dialog,ask   dialog,home" then
>>      return true
>>   else if pStackName begins with "com.livecode." then
>>      return true
>>   else if pStackName is among the lines of
>> revInternal__ListLoadedLibraries()   then
>>      return true
>>   else
>>      return pStackName begins with "rev"
>>   end if
>> end revStackNameIsIDEStack
>>
>> We could look at changing that to ensure the filename of the stack is
>> an IDE or plugin file path but in your case just patching that to set
>> the caseSensitive to true just before checking for “rev” would cover it.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Monte
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>
>
>
>
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HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Stacks whose names start with "rev"

Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
J. Landman Gay wrote:

 > For anyone following this, simply opening the stack with messages
 > turned off doesn't work for very long. As soon as you perform any
 > significant action (click a control, change cards, etc.) the stack
 > is reset to mode
 > 2. But doing this in the message box does persist:
 >
 >    set the _ideoverride of stack <whatever> to false

Good to know.  Thanks.

@Monte:
Now that there's a property-driven solution in place, can we be done
with the limitation of "rev*" names?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
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