Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

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Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Hi folks, my company is currently taking quotes on building an LC external
to act as a driver for RethinkDB.  I have already submitted a request with
Monte & Ian over at Livecode, but would like to open it up to everyone that
has the skill to build the external....I don't really even know if there is
anyone else.

Here are the exact specs.

https://www.rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/

The more precise the quote the better.

Thanks,

Tom
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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
I poked around on their web site. What is the advantage of this db over other SQL db's? Price? Speed? Ease of config?

Bob S


> On Aug 2, 2017, at 14:12 , Tom Glod via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi folks, my company is currently taking quotes on building an LC external
> to act as a driver for RethinkDB.  I have already submitted a request with
> Monte & Ian over at Livecode, but would like to open it up to everyone that
> has the skill to build the external....I don't really even know if there is
> anyone else.
>
> Here are the exact specs.
>
> https://www.rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/
>
> The more precise the quote the better.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom


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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Hi Bob...  It's a real time dB with push notifications. .. So your
application does not query the dB to be updated...  The updates are pushed
to the clients when there is a change.....  So you subscribe to a query.
So it's way more scalable than traditional databases and way easier to
distribute.

On Aug 3, 2017 11:00 AM, "Bob Sneidar via use-livecode" <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I poked around on their web site. What is the advantage of this db over
> other SQL db's? Price? Speed? Ease of config?
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Aug 2, 2017, at 14:12 , Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi folks, my company is currently taking quotes on building an LC
> external
> > to act as a driver for RethinkDB.  I have already submitted a request
> with
> > Monte & Ian over at Livecode, but would like to open it up to everyone
> that
> > has the skill to build the external....I don't really even know if there
> is
> > anyone else.
> >
> > Here are the exact specs.
> >
> > https://www.rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/
> >
> > The more precise the quote the better.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
2017-08-03 17:00 GMT+02:00 Bob Sneidar:

I poked around on their web site.

What is the advantage of this db over other SQL db's? Price? Speed? Ease of
> config?
>
>

​Hi Bob,

Here is 1 minute of rethinkDB​...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKPKsBNw604


Regards,

Thierry




> > On Aug 2, 2017, at 14:12 , Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi folks, my company is currently taking quotes on building an LC
> external
> > to act as a driver for RethinkDB.  I have already submitted a request
> with
> > Monte & Ian over at Livecode, but would like to open it up to everyone
> that
> > has the skill to build the external....I don't really even know if there
> is
> > anyone else.
> >
> > Here are the exact specs.
> >
> > https://www.rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/
> >
> > The more precise the quote the better.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
>
>
--
------------------------------------------------
Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com
sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage
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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
I don't know the first thing about Rethink, but have you thought about
using odbc?

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:02 AM, Thierry Douez via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2017-08-03 17:00 GMT+02:00 Bob Sneidar:
>
> I poked around on their web site.
>
> What is the advantage of this db over other SQL db's? Price? Speed? Ease of
> > config?
> >
> >
>
> ​Hi Bob,
>
> Here is 1 minute of rethinkDB​...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKPKsBNw604
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Thierry
>
>
>
>
> > > On Aug 2, 2017, at 14:12 , Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi folks, my company is currently taking quotes on building an LC
> > external
> > > to act as a driver for RethinkDB.  I have already submitted a request
> > with
> > > Monte & Ian over at Livecode, but would like to open it up to everyone
> > that
> > > has the skill to build the external....I don't really even know if
> there
> > is
> > > anyone else.
> > >
> > > Here are the exact specs.
> > >
> > > https://www.rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/
> > >
> > > The more precise the quote the better.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Tom
> >
> >
> --
> ------------------------------------------------
> Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com
> sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
nah....I need the driver for many reasons.   I do plan to donate the driver
to the open-source community version once its completed.  I don't have any
reason why not, I really just need the driver, its an investment for my
company for many years to come.

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't know the first thing about Rethink, but have you thought about
> using odbc?
>
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:02 AM, Thierry Douez via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > 2017-08-03 17:00 GMT+02:00 Bob Sneidar:
> >
> > I poked around on their web site.
> >
> > What is the advantage of this db over other SQL db's? Price? Speed? Ease
> of
> > > config?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ​Hi Bob,
> >
> > Here is 1 minute of rethinkDB​...
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKPKsBNw604
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Thierry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > On Aug 2, 2017, at 14:12 , Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi folks, my company is currently taking quotes on building an LC
> > > external
> > > > to act as a driver for RethinkDB.  I have already submitted a request
> > > with
> > > > Monte & Ian over at Livecode, but would like to open it up to
> everyone
> > > that
> > > > has the skill to build the external....I don't really even know if
> > there
> > > is
> > > > anyone else.
> > > >
> > > > Here are the exact specs.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/
> > > >
> > > > The more precise the quote the better.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com
> > sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Thanks Charles.  I did hear back from Livecode and they are preparing a
quote for me.  I will keep you in mind if anything doesn't work there.



On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 4:12 PM, Tom Glod <[hidden email]> wrote:

> nah....I need the driver for many reasons.   I do plan to donate the
> driver to the open-source community version once its completed.  I don't
> have any reason why not, I really just need the driver, its an investment
> for my company for many years to come.
>
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I don't know the first thing about Rethink, but have you thought about
>> using odbc?
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:02 AM, Thierry Douez via use-livecode <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > 2017-08-03 17:00 GMT+02:00 Bob Sneidar:
>> >
>> > I poked around on their web site.
>> >
>> > What is the advantage of this db over other SQL db's? Price? Speed?
>> Ease of
>> > > config?
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > ​Hi Bob,
>> >
>> > Here is 1 minute of rethinkDB​...
>> >
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKPKsBNw604
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Thierry
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > > On Aug 2, 2017, at 14:12 , Tom Glod via use-livecode <
>> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi folks, my company is currently taking quotes on building an LC
>> > > external
>> > > > to act as a driver for RethinkDB.  I have already submitted a
>> request
>> > > with
>> > > > Monte & Ian over at Livecode, but would like to open it up to
>> everyone
>> > > that
>> > > > has the skill to build the external....I don't really even know if
>> > there
>> > > is
>> > > > anyone else.
>> > > >
>> > > > Here are the exact specs.
>> > > >
>> > > > https://www.rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/
>> > > >
>> > > > The more precise the quote the better.
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks,
>> > > >
>> > > > Tom
>> > >
>> > >
>> > --
>> > ------------------------------------------------
>> > Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com
>> > sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> > subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>    and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
I have to admit that rethinkdb sounds really interesting - I hadn't
heard of it until your posting.

Might be worth a crowdfunding / donation request to spread the cost;
while I don't have a *need* for it, it might be a worthy target for (a
small amount) of my optional spending of my 'pocket money' ;-)

Alex


On 04/08/2017 21:12, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote:

> nah....I need the driver for many reasons.   I do plan to donate the driver
> to the open-source community version once its completed.  I don't have any
> reason why not, I really just need the driver, its an investment for my
> company for many years to come.
>
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I don't know the first thing about Rethink, but have you thought about
>> using odbc?
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:02 AM, Thierry Douez via use-livecode <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> 2017-08-03 17:00 GMT+02:00 Bob Sneidar:
>>>
>>> I poked around on their web site.
>>>
>>> What is the advantage of this db over other SQL db's? Price? Speed? Ease
>> of
>>>> config?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ​Hi Bob,
>>>
>>> Here is 1 minute of rethinkDB​...
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKPKsBNw604
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Thierry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2017, at 14:12 , Tom Glod via use-livecode <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi folks, my company is currently taking quotes on building an LC
>>>> external
>>>>> to act as a driver for RethinkDB.  I have already submitted a request
>>>> with
>>>>> Monte & Ian over at Livecode, but would like to open it up to
>> everyone
>>>> that
>>>>> has the skill to build the external....I don't really even know if
>>> there
>>>> is
>>>>> anyone else.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are the exact specs.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/
>>>>>
>>>>> The more precise the quote the better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom
>>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>> Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com
>>> sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>     and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Thats definately an option.  I'm actually kind of clueless about what the
price will be .... I literally don't have any idea, but the specs don't
look that complicated.  So i'm optimistic that its semi straight forward.

I've made up my mind on this pretty much.  Its getting done, no matter
what.   I almost started to build it ...but then quickly realized that its
impractical for me to try.

Lets see what happens.  If the number is reasonable, I'm just going to add
it to our spreadsheet and hope the angels we are meeting with are ok with
it being on our expense sheet and pay for it.

Its good to know there is interest.







On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 8:38 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have to admit that rethinkdb sounds really interesting - I hadn't heard
> of it until your posting.
>
> Might be worth a crowdfunding / donation request to spread the cost; while
> I don't have a *need* for it, it might be a worthy target for (a small
> amount) of my optional spending of my 'pocket money' ;-)
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> On 04/08/2017 21:12, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> nah....I need the driver for many reasons.   I do plan to donate the
>> driver
>> to the open-source community version once its completed.  I don't have any
>> reason why not, I really just need the driver, its an investment for my
>> company for many years to come.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know the first thing about Rethink, but have you thought about
>>> using odbc?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:02 AM, Thierry Douez via use-livecode <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> 2017-08-03 17:00 GMT+02:00 Bob Sneidar:
>>>>
>>>> I poked around on their web site.
>>>>
>>>> What is the advantage of this db over other SQL db's? Price? Speed? Ease
>>>>
>>> of
>>>
>>>> config?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ​Hi Bob,
>>>>
>>>> Here is 1 minute of rethinkDB​...
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKPKsBNw604
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Thierry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 2, 2017, at 14:12 , Tom Glod via use-livecode <
>>>>>>
>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi folks, my company is currently taking quotes on building an LC
>>>>>>
>>>>> external
>>>>>
>>>>>> to act as a driver for RethinkDB.  I have already submitted a request
>>>>>>
>>>>> with
>>>>>
>>>>>> Monte & Ian over at Livecode, but would like to open it up to
>>>>>>
>>>>> everyone
>>>
>>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>>> has the skill to build the external....I don't really even know if
>>>>>>
>>>>> there
>>>>
>>>>> is
>>>>>
>>>>>> anyone else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are the exact specs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The more precise the quote the better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>> Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com
>>>> sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>>     and did a little diving.
>>> And God said, "This is good."
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>>
>
>
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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
On 08/04/2017 05:38 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
> I have to admit that rethinkdb sounds really interesting - I hadn't
> heard of it until your posting.
>
> Might be worth a crowdfunding / donation request to spread the cost;
> while I don't have a *need* for it, it might be a worthy target for (a
> small amount) of my optional spending of my 'pocket money' ;-)

<rant>
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3662
</rant>

<rant continued>
In 2006 all existing database bugs in bugzilla were rolled into one
omnibus 'revDB review' bug report, and the individual report statuses
were all changed as 'resolved'. This in favor of 'We will shortly be
reviewing revDB' for a major rewrite of the database layer.

Had this actually been done anytime in the intervening eleven years,
adding new database types would be much easier. At some point I tried to
add mongodb to the engine and eventually hit a brick wall because of an
incompatibility with the existing library structure (a clash of static
and dynamic libraries, IIRC)

I realize revamping the database layer is a bigger task than trying to
shoehorn more database types into the existing bucket, but I think it's
high time to revisit (crowdfund) this. Otherwise we're just digging
ourselves deeper into the existing muck.
</whatever>

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]

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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Err - given that revDB is an *SQL* database wrapper and MongoDB is not an SQL database you can imagine that creating an abstraction layer to deal with both might be 'quite' hard - if not impossible.

So, given that we've now been open source for over four years and as such that code has been open for others to contribute to for four years please feel free to try and propose an API which works relatively seemlessly for all types of databases that exist today - I'll happily review it and help ensure it is worthwhile.

Less 'rants' and more actual intellectual effort please. This isn't down to static and dynamic libraries, that is just the colour of the bikeshed at this level - and trying to claim that anything related to that is the issue here is just misleading people.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

P.S. My point here is simply that whilst their may be an abstraction which unifies all databases it sits so far up in the abstraction hierarchy that trying to make revDB do it would be entirely pointless. The 'revDB' rewrite you speak of has been subsumed by a number of db libraries which solve the issue of low-level access that revDB provides. Whether that be dblib, sqlyoga, or the way to abstract in a domain specific case as typified in many apps (e.g. The photo app in the createit course) have provided. Indeed, let's not pretend that the issue with supporting all kinds of 'database' here is at the C / API level because it really isn't.

P.P.S. Abstractions are what makes things easy - abstracting too far and all you end up doing is proving that 1 = 1 in numerous not particularly interesting ways. What you might call "category theory 101".

Sent from my iPhone

> On 5 Aug 2017, at 19:39, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 08/04/2017 05:38 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have to admit that rethinkdb sounds really interesting - I hadn't heard of it until your posting.
>> Might be worth a crowdfunding / donation request to spread the cost; while I don't have a *need* for it, it might be a worthy target for (a small amount) of my optional spending of my 'pocket money' ;-)
>
> <rant>
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3662
> </rant>
>
> <rant continued>
> In 2006 all existing database bugs in bugzilla were rolled into one omnibus 'revDB review' bug report, and the individual report statuses were all changed as 'resolved'. This in favor of 'We will shortly be reviewing revDB' for a major rewrite of the database layer.
>
> Had this actually been done anytime in the intervening eleven years, adding new database types would be much easier. At some point I tried to add mongodb to the engine and eventually hit a brick wall because of an incompatibility with the existing library structure (a clash of static and dynamic libraries, IIRC)
>
> I realize revamping the database layer is a bigger task than trying to shoehorn more database types into the existing bucket, but I think it's high time to revisit (crowdfund) this. Otherwise we're just digging ourselves deeper into the existing muck.
> </whatever>
>
> --
> Mark Wieder
> [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Hi Mark,

I don't really know what to make of that thread and I wouldn't pretend to
understand everything thats being talked about here or there....so i'm jst
thinking out loud.

 I believe I might have mis-spoken by calling it a driver..... its really a
LC external that acts as a driver.

If you go to this page ..... the specs say that it all happens through an
tcp/ip  connection where you make a connection, serialize the query and
send it ....  the db driver port receives queries, and streams data from
the db via the TCP/IP back to "subscribed" client.

So it doesn't really need to have anything to do with the current
revdatabase functions....which the posts seem to be talking about.  I'm not
asking for a rewrite of db layer.

It would be more perform ant to build this as an external and closer to the
engine...as far as I know anyways..... unless thats completely wrong.

Here is the link again.......

https://www.rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/

Thanks for making me aware of the past efforts with RethinkDB.

On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 4:36 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Err - given that revDB is an *SQL* database wrapper and MongoDB is not an
> SQL database you can imagine that creating an abstraction layer to deal
> with both might be 'quite' hard - if not impossible.
>
> So, given that we've now been open source for over four years and as such
> that code has been open for others to contribute to for four years please
> feel free to try and propose an API which works relatively seemlessly for
> all types of databases that exist today - I'll happily review it and help
> ensure it is worthwhile.
>
> Less 'rants' and more actual intellectual effort please. This isn't down
> to static and dynamic libraries, that is just the colour of the bikeshed at
> this level - and trying to claim that anything related to that is the issue
> here is just misleading people.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> P.S. My point here is simply that whilst their may be an abstraction which
> unifies all databases it sits so far up in the abstraction hierarchy that
> trying to make revDB do it would be entirely pointless. The 'revDB' rewrite
> you speak of has been subsumed by a number of db libraries which solve the
> issue of low-level access that revDB provides. Whether that be dblib,
> sqlyoga, or the way to abstract in a domain specific case as typified in
> many apps (e.g. The photo app in the createit course) have provided.
> Indeed, let's not pretend that the issue with supporting all kinds of
> 'database' here is at the C / API level because it really isn't.
>
> P.P.S. Abstractions are what makes things easy - abstracting too far and
> all you end up doing is proving that 1 = 1 in numerous not particularly
> interesting ways. What you might call "category theory 101".
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 5 Aug 2017, at 19:39, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 08/04/2017 05:38 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
> >> I have to admit that rethinkdb sounds really interesting - I hadn't
> heard of it until your posting.
> >> Might be worth a crowdfunding / donation request to spread the cost;
> while I don't have a *need* for it, it might be a worthy target for (a
> small amount) of my optional spending of my 'pocket money' ;-)
> >
> > <rant>
> > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3662
> > </rant>
> >
> > <rant continued>
> > In 2006 all existing database bugs in bugzilla were rolled into one
> omnibus 'revDB review' bug report, and the individual report statuses were
> all changed as 'resolved'. This in favor of 'We will shortly be reviewing
> revDB' for a major rewrite of the database layer.
> >
> > Had this actually been done anytime in the intervening eleven years,
> adding new database types would be much easier. At some point I tried to
> add mongodb to the engine and eventually hit a brick wall because of an
> incompatibility with the existing library structure (a clash of static and
> dynamic libraries, IIRC)
> >
> > I realize revamping the database layer is a bigger task than trying to
> shoehorn more database types into the existing bucket, but I think it's
> high time to revisit (crowdfund) this. Otherwise we're just digging
> ourselves deeper into the existing muck.
> > </whatever>
> >
> > --
> > Mark Wieder
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Hi Tom,

Nothing in my previous post was to do with your request - we will get back to you as quickly as we can with a quote for what you asked.

Whether that is a driver for revDB or a direct wrapper for the low-level C API raised to a suitable level of abstraction will depend on the analysis we do.

The functionality you need is the important thing here and not the manner or means.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 6 Aug 2017, at 01:42, Tom Glod via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> I don't really know what to make of that thread and I wouldn't pretend to
> understand everything thats being talked about here or there....so i'm jst
> thinking out loud.
>
> I believe I might have mis-spoken by calling it a driver..... its really a
> LC external that acts as a driver.
>
> If you go to this page ..... the specs say that it all happens through an
> tcp/ip  connection where you make a connection, serialize the query and
> send it ....  the db driver port receives queries, and streams data from
> the db via the TCP/IP back to "subscribed" client.
>
> So it doesn't really need to have anything to do with the current
> revdatabase functions....which the posts seem to be talking about.  I'm not
> asking for a rewrite of db layer.
>
> It would be more perform ant to build this as an external and closer to the
> engine...as far as I know anyways..... unless thats completely wrong.
>
> Here is the link again.......
>
> https://www.rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/
>
> Thanks for making me aware of the past efforts with RethinkDB.
>
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 4:36 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Err - given that revDB is an *SQL* database wrapper and MongoDB is not an
>> SQL database you can imagine that creating an abstraction layer to deal
>> with both might be 'quite' hard - if not impossible.
>>
>> So, given that we've now been open source for over four years and as such
>> that code has been open for others to contribute to for four years please
>> feel free to try and propose an API which works relatively seemlessly for
>> all types of databases that exist today - I'll happily review it and help
>> ensure it is worthwhile.
>>
>> Less 'rants' and more actual intellectual effort please. This isn't down
>> to static and dynamic libraries, that is just the colour of the bikeshed at
>> this level - and trying to claim that anything related to that is the issue
>> here is just misleading people.
>>
>> Warmest Regards,
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> P.S. My point here is simply that whilst their may be an abstraction which
>> unifies all databases it sits so far up in the abstraction hierarchy that
>> trying to make revDB do it would be entirely pointless. The 'revDB' rewrite
>> you speak of has been subsumed by a number of db libraries which solve the
>> issue of low-level access that revDB provides. Whether that be dblib,
>> sqlyoga, or the way to abstract in a domain specific case as typified in
>> many apps (e.g. The photo app in the createit course) have provided.
>> Indeed, let's not pretend that the issue with supporting all kinds of
>> 'database' here is at the C / API level because it really isn't.
>>
>> P.P.S. Abstractions are what makes things easy - abstracting too far and
>> all you end up doing is proving that 1 = 1 in numerous not particularly
>> interesting ways. What you might call "category theory 101".
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 5 Aug 2017, at 19:39, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/04/2017 05:38 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I have to admit that rethinkdb sounds really interesting - I hadn't
>> heard of it until your posting.
>>>> Might be worth a crowdfunding / donation request to spread the cost;
>> while I don't have a *need* for it, it might be a worthy target for (a
>> small amount) of my optional spending of my 'pocket money' ;-)
>>>
>>> <rant>
>>> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3662
>>> </rant>
>>>
>>> <rant continued>
>>> In 2006 all existing database bugs in bugzilla were rolled into one
>> omnibus 'revDB review' bug report, and the individual report statuses were
>> all changed as 'resolved'. This in favor of 'We will shortly be reviewing
>> revDB' for a major rewrite of the database layer.
>>>
>>> Had this actually been done anytime in the intervening eleven years,
>> adding new database types would be much easier. At some point I tried to
>> add mongodb to the engine and eventually hit a brick wall because of an
>> incompatibility with the existing library structure (a clash of static and
>> dynamic libraries, IIRC)
>>>
>>> I realize revamping the database layer is a bigger task than trying to
>> shoehorn more database types into the existing bucket, but I think it's
>> high time to revisit (crowdfund) this. Otherwise we're just digging
>> ourselves deeper into the existing muck.
>>> </whatever>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Wieder
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Fantastic..... I look forward to the details of the quote. Thanks

On Aug 5, 2017 9:58 PM, "Mark Waddingham via use-livecode" <
[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Tom,

Nothing in my previous post was to do with your request - we will get back
to you as quickly as we can with a quote for what you asked.

Whether that is a driver for revDB or a direct wrapper for the low-level C
API raised to a suitable level of abstraction will depend on the analysis
we do.

The functionality you need is the important thing here and not the manner
or means.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 6 Aug 2017, at 01:42, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi Mark,
>
> I don't really know what to make of that thread and I wouldn't pretend to
> understand everything thats being talked about here or there....so i'm jst
> thinking out loud.
>
> I believe I might have mis-spoken by calling it a driver..... its really a
> LC external that acts as a driver.
>
> If you go to this page ..... the specs say that it all happens through an
> tcp/ip  connection where you make a connection, serialize the query and
> send it ....  the db driver port receives queries, and streams data from
> the db via the TCP/IP back to "subscribed" client.
>
> So it doesn't really need to have anything to do with the current
> revdatabase functions....which the posts seem to be talking about.  I'm
not
> asking for a rewrite of db layer.
>
> It would be more perform ant to build this as an external and closer to
the

> engine...as far as I know anyways..... unless thats completely wrong.
>
> Here is the link again.......
>
> https://www.rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/
>
> Thanks for making me aware of the past efforts with RethinkDB.
>
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 4:36 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Err - given that revDB is an *SQL* database wrapper and MongoDB is not an
>> SQL database you can imagine that creating an abstraction layer to deal
>> with both might be 'quite' hard - if not impossible.
>>
>> So, given that we've now been open source for over four years and as such
>> that code has been open for others to contribute to for four years please
>> feel free to try and propose an API which works relatively seemlessly for
>> all types of databases that exist today - I'll happily review it and help
>> ensure it is worthwhile.
>>
>> Less 'rants' and more actual intellectual effort please. This isn't down
>> to static and dynamic libraries, that is just the colour of the bikeshed
at
>> this level - and trying to claim that anything related to that is the
issue
>> here is just misleading people.
>>
>> Warmest Regards,
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> P.S. My point here is simply that whilst their may be an abstraction
which
>> unifies all databases it sits so far up in the abstraction hierarchy that
>> trying to make revDB do it would be entirely pointless. The 'revDB'
rewrite
>> you speak of has been subsumed by a number of db libraries which solve
the

>> issue of low-level access that revDB provides. Whether that be dblib,
>> sqlyoga, or the way to abstract in a domain specific case as typified in
>> many apps (e.g. The photo app in the createit course) have provided.
>> Indeed, let's not pretend that the issue with supporting all kinds of
>> 'database' here is at the C / API level because it really isn't.
>>
>> P.P.S. Abstractions are what makes things easy - abstracting too far and
>> all you end up doing is proving that 1 = 1 in numerous not particularly
>> interesting ways. What you might call "category theory 101".
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 5 Aug 2017, at 19:39, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/04/2017 05:38 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I have to admit that rethinkdb sounds really interesting - I hadn't
>> heard of it until your posting.
>>>> Might be worth a crowdfunding / donation request to spread the cost;
>> while I don't have a *need* for it, it might be a worthy target for (a
>> small amount) of my optional spending of my 'pocket money' ;-)
>>>
>>> <rant>
>>> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3662
>>> </rant>
>>>
>>> <rant continued>
>>> In 2006 all existing database bugs in bugzilla were rolled into one
>> omnibus 'revDB review' bug report, and the individual report statuses
were
>> all changed as 'resolved'. This in favor of 'We will shortly be reviewing
>> revDB' for a major rewrite of the database layer.
>>>
>>> Had this actually been done anytime in the intervening eleven years,
>> adding new database types would be much easier. At some point I tried to
>> add mongodb to the engine and eventually hit a brick wall because of an
>> incompatibility with the existing library structure (a clash of static
and

>> dynamic libraries, IIRC)
>>>
>>> I realize revamping the database layer is a bigger task than trying to
>> shoehorn more database types into the existing bucket, but I think it's
>> high time to revisit (crowdfund) this. Otherwise we're just digging
>> ourselves deeper into the existing muck.
>>> </whatever>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Wieder
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
On 08/05/2017 04:42 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote:

> So it doesn't really need to have anything to do with the current
> revdatabase functions....which the posts seem to be talking about.  I'm not
> asking for a rewrite of db layer.

Ah. In that case, I'm a bit confused. What does this have to do with
LiveCode if you're not trying to tie into the existing functions?

>
> It would be more perform ant to build this as an external and closer to the
> engine...as far as I know anyways..... unless thats completely wrong.

 From my brief scanning of the rethinkdb website, I don't think it would
make a big difference. All the heavy lifting is being done by the
database itself. You'd just be sending data back and forth over a socket
connection between LC and the database app. I just spent about a half
hour with this and fwiw I'm communicating with the rethinkdb server.

> Thanks for making me aware of the past efforts with RethinkDB.

No, nothing to do with RethinkDB itself. Sorry if I gave that impression.

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]

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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
On 08/05/2017 01:36 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> Err - given that revDB is an *SQL* database wrapper and MongoDB is not an SQL database you can imagine that creating an abstraction layer to deal with both might be 'quite' hard - if not impossible.

Not so much. What I was attempting was to get some of the existing
syntax in place, so that things like revOpenDatabase would work rather
than create a whole new syntax. RethinkDB is also a nosql database, so I
assume it's also not going to fit into the existing command structure.

Other than that, I'm gonna stay out of this and let you all handle it.

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]

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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Mark W..  I know it shouldn't be this difficult, but would you mind sending
your handshake code?  I'm probably overthinking but can't figure out how to
get it to work.

On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 08/05/2017 01:36 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Err - given that revDB is an *SQL* database wrapper and MongoDB is not an
>> SQL database you can imagine that creating an abstraction layer to deal
>> with both might be 'quite' hard - if not impossible.
>>
>
> Not so much. What I was attempting was to get some of the existing syntax
> in place, so that things like revOpenDatabase would work rather than create
> a whole new syntax. RethinkDB is also a nosql database, so I assume it's
> also not going to fit into the existing command structure.
>
> Other than that, I'm gonna stay out of this and let you all handle it.
>
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Hello Tom -

ReThinkDB seems like a good project.  I'm assuming this is for
client-server over the Internet, yes?

If so, do you plan on connecting the DB directly to the open Internet,
or use a middleware supplying a REST API for clients?

If the latter, you'd only need a means of connecting LC directly to the
DB if you were using LC Server.   But since LC Server is a CGI, and
since one of the benefits of using ReThinkDB is performance, if you used
PHP as your middleware you'd be able to use the existing APIs for that
language on the server, and your LC-based clients would just call your
REST API via GET and POST.

If this is not helpful, what other considerations might we take into
account to explore options for efficient connections with that DB?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode


On 07/08/2017 00:39, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello Tom -
>
> ReThinkDB seems like a good project.  I'm assuming this is for
> client-server over the Internet, yes?
>
> If so, do you plan on connecting the DB directly to the open Internet,
> or use a middleware supplying a REST API for clients?
>
i would presume not. The USP of RethinkDB (at least from my very quick
skim over the website :-) was the 'push' notification of updates to the
clients - which would be lost if you used a 'traditional' REST API from
the end-clients to a server.

> If the latter, you'd only need a means of connecting LC directly to
> the DB if you were using LC Server.   But since LC Server is a CGI,
> and since one of the benefits of using ReThinkDB is performance, if
> you used PHP as your middleware you'd be able to use the existing APIs
> for that language on the server, and your LC-based clients would just
> call your REST API via GET and POST.
>
> If this is not helpful, what other considerations might we take into
> account to explore options for efficient connections with that DB?
>
Alex.

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Re: Taking quotes on building LC external for RethinkDB

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
On 08/05/2017 11:26 PM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote:
> Mark W..  I know it shouldn't be this difficult, but would you mind sending
> your handshake code?  I'm probably overthinking but can't figure out how to
> get it to work.

email sent

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]


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12