Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

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Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

Jerry Daniels-2
As we all know, the very definition of a personal computer has changed  
radically over the last year. Personal computing devices are becoming  
more personal and more mobile. This transformation has accelerated  
dramatically in the last month.

Every technology company on our little planet is changing the way they  
do business to accommodate this transformation. And so is Revolution.  
Shareholders chase growth, and everyone of us who have bought a  
license to Revolution desktop, On-Rev, or revMobile are, in effect  
shareholders. We don't want to be left behind.

Kevin and team have shown their resilience and brilliance in the  
transformation department with their announcement today. They've  
adjusted their roadmap and their offering to keep us all in the game.  
They have my thanks, trust, and admiration. And my business going  
forward.

I have done business with Kevin over the last decade as his  
contractor, vendor, customer and friend. I spent a few days with him  
and Mark in Edinburgh working on a project. We've broken bread, curry  
and haggis together. I known these guys. I like doing business with  
them and I like where they're going.

I bought the great revMobile pre-alpha along with the conference, the  
DVDs, the works. I do not want or expect a refund just because a part  
it will not be delivered as hoped. Even if I had bought within the  
last 30 days I would not want anything. I'm getting a good product and  
value for my money. I have no concerns. I know I'll get preferential  
treatment with any new mobility platforms Kevin an Mark do.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Using Revolution technology to create iPad web apps:
http://rodeoapps.com
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

David C.
> Kevin and team have shown their resilience and brilliance in the
> transformation department with their announcement today. They've adjusted
> their roadmap and their offering to keep us all in the game. They have my
> thanks, trust, and admiration. And my business going forward.

Well said and I am in complete agreement.

iPhone & iPad's loss is just Androids gain.

...I now know what my next phone/mobile device will be powered by. ;-)

Best regards,
David C.
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

Thomas McGrath III-3
In reply to this post by Jerry Daniels-2
This is good for you Jerry. I hope you keep getting preferential treatment. I, however, do not.

I do expect a rebate or discount for my loss.

Tom McGrath

On May 10, 2010, at 1:46 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:
> I bought the great revMobile pre-alpha along with the conference, the DVDs, the works. I do not want or expect a refund just because a part it will not be delivered as hoped. Even if I had bought within the last 30 days I would not want anything. I'm getting a good product and value for my money. I have no concerns. I know I'll get preferential treatment with any new mobility platforms Kevin an Mark do.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry Daniels
>
> Using Revolution technology to create iPad web apps:
> http://rodeoapps.com

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

Matthias Rebbe
In reply to this post by Jerry Daniels-2
I couldn´t have said it better.

Matthias

Am 10.05.2010 um 19:46 schrieb Jerry Daniels:

> As we all know, the very definition of a personal computer has changed radically over the last year. Personal computing devices are becoming more personal and more mobile. This transformation has accelerated dramatically in the last month.
>
> Every technology company on our little planet is changing the way they do business to accommodate this transformation. And so is Revolution. Shareholders chase growth, and everyone of us who have bought a license to Revolution desktop, On-Rev, or revMobile are, in effect shareholders. We don't want to be left behind.
>
> Kevin and team have shown their resilience and brilliance in the transformation department with their announcement today. They've adjusted their roadmap and their offering to keep us all in the game. They have my thanks, trust, and admiration. And my business going forward.
>
> I have done business with Kevin over the last decade as his contractor, vendor, customer and friend. I spent a few days with him and Mark in Edinburgh working on a project. We've broken bread, curry and haggis together. I known these guys. I like doing business with them and I like where they're going.
>
> I bought the great revMobile pre-alpha along with the conference, the DVDs, the works. I do not want or expect a refund just because a part it will not be delivered as hoped. Even if I had bought within the last 30 days I would not want anything. I'm getting a good product and value for my money. I have no concerns. I know I'll get preferential treatment with any new mobility platforms Kevin an Mark do.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry Daniels
>
> Using Revolution technology to create iPad web apps:
> http://rodeoapps.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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RE: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

Randall Reetz
In reply to this post by Jerry Daniels-2
I would have loved to have instead heard apple's reaction to the prospect that runrev would output clean well formed objective C source that would be compiled in apples blessed and native IDE. Of course apple would want to developed its own xtalk environment for the ipad.  They own the domain!  They invented it!  What did you think they would say?  Nuts!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Daniels <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 10:46 AM
To: How to Use Revolution <[hidden email]>; Improvements to Revolution <[hidden email]>
Subject: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

As we all know, the very definition of a personal computer has changed  
radically over the last year. Personal computing devices are becoming  
more personal and more mobile. This transformation has accelerated  
dramatically in the last month.

Every technology company on our little planet is changing the way they  
do business to accommodate this transformation. And so is Revolution.  
Shareholders chase growth, and everyone of us who have bought a  
license to Revolution desktop, On-Rev, or revMobile are, in effect  
shareholders. We don't want to be left behind.

Kevin and team have shown their resilience and brilliance in the  
transformation department with their announcement today. They've  
adjusted their roadmap and their offering to keep us all in the game.  
They have my thanks, trust, and admiration. And my business going  
forward.

I have done business with Kevin over the last decade as his  
contractor, vendor, customer and friend. I spent a few days with him  
and Mark in Edinburgh working on a project. We've broken bread, curry  
and haggis together. I known these guys. I like doing business with  
them and I like where they're going.

I bought the great revMobile pre-alpha along with the conference, the  
DVDs, the works. I do not want or expect a refund just because a part  
it will not be delivered as hoped. Even if I had bought within the  
last 30 days I would not want anything. I'm getting a good product and  
value for my money. I have no concerns. I know I'll get preferential  
treatment with any new mobility platforms Kevin an Mark do.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Using Revolution technology to create iPad web apps:
http://rodeoapps.com
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Android over iPad (was RE: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement)

Lynn Fredricks-2
In reply to this post by Jerry Daniels-2
> Kevin and team have shown their resilience and brilliance in
> the transformation department with their announcement today.
> They've adjusted their roadmap and their offering to keep us
> all in the game.  
> They have my thanks, trust, and admiration. And my business
> going forward.

I completely agree, Jerry.

The iPhone family of products represent a very attractive consumer platform.
We cannot expect iPad users to understand the issues around Steve Jobs war
on cross platform tools - just talk with your non computer industry friends
who also happen to use an iPhone about it (guess what I did on Mother's
Day). The iPad today is still the product it was yesterday - except now we
know our Rev projects won't be on it.

Just as Steve Jobs has his business reasons for making his decisions, so do
you as software vendors.

I don't think you should go out and burn your iPhone and iPad.  But just
like Steve Jobs, you should also consider your business as well. Support
RevMobile on Android. Plan for it. Help make it happen. Make the words
"HyperCard" and "Runrev" and "Android" appear often in your blogs, twitter
posts and facebook updates.

I don't suggest this for reasons other than business reasons. Supporting a
platform where you can deploy your applications, which makes it possible for
more copies of your applications to be sold.

Ive already made a blog update to this effect, it isnt much more than you
already know:
http://www.lynnfredricks.com/2010/05/10/no-hypercard-for-the-ipad-watch-for-
hypercard-on-android/



Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Mirye Software Publishing
http://www.mirye.com

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

Josh Mellicker
In reply to this post by Jerry Daniels-2
With all sympathies to those who are understandably deeply disappointed, there is a silver lining to this news:


On May 10, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:

> ...we are ...focusing on developing significant and exciting enhancements to the Rev platform. We have many exciting projects in the pipeline including an overhaul to our Unicode support, enhanced text display...

If this pipeline also includes improving core functionality of the desktop IDE, from things like the player object to widgets to fixing bugs, as well as more focus on feature parity for Linux, it could end up being great for all of us.

For a small company, focusing on core competencies is a really good thing, and the one thing RunRev unquestionably does better than anyone else in the world is a best-in-class cross-platform desktop software dev environment.




On May 10, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> We've broken haggis together.


Then you've gone further than I ever would :-)


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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

Bernard Devlin-2
Absolutely.  I'd decided long ago against having anything to do with
Apple and the iPhone, because I thought the direction Apple was going
in was extremely retrograde.  I wish my fears over Apple had been
wrong.

But I'd be delighted to see RunRev focus on it's core tools.  I can
only hope that good things for the Linux version of Rev would come out
of a focus on Android.  FWIW, I've been happily running a HTC phone
(Windows Mobile) for over 2 years. I've been very happy with what it
provides me with (many of things required jail-breaking on the iPhone,
and even required hoop-jumping on an Android phone).  But HTC seem to
make damn fine phones.  This thing is so superior to all the
top-of-the range Nokia phones I've had in the past, and I bought it on
the recommendation of a gadget freak who rated it very highly.  I've
no doubt my next phone will be a HTC Android.

Let's be glad that Apple pulled the rug at this point, instead of in
12 months time.

Bernard

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 4:06 AM, Josh Mellicker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> With all sympathies to those who are understandably deeply disappointed, there is a silver lining to this news:
>
>
> On May 10, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:
>
>> ...we are ...focusing on developing significant and exciting enhancements to the Rev platform. We have many exciting projects in the pipeline including an overhaul to our Unicode support, enhanced text display...
>
> If this pipeline also includes improving core functionality of the desktop IDE, from things like the player object to widgets to fixing bugs, as well as more focus on feature parity for Linux, it could end up being great for all of us.
>
> For a small company, focusing on core competencies is a really good thing, and the one thing RunRev unquestionably does better than anyone else in the world is a best-in-class cross-platform desktop software dev environment.
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Apple: 100 good reasons for revMobile

andreas@medone.ch
I think we should tell Apple what we think. Perhaps someone knows where to write our ideas?
Found the following Link:
http://developer.apple.com/contact/

Maybe, there is a better one?

If all Rev users stand together - how many statements would we get?
My mother tongue is swiss-german - there are others here, writting much better than I do!

So - hey!  What do you think? Should we start a campaign?
We could also collect adresses on a website?
Perhaps on runrev.com ?

Best regards

Andreas Stämpfli


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Re: Apple: 100 good reasons for revMobile

René Micout
We risk nothing to try ...
In principle I agree, but with the reasons given by Apple (which I understand very well even if it does not suit me) I do not think it serve for something.
Several years ago when Apple dropped (quietly) HyperCard, I wrote a long letter to Steve Jobs (a dozen pages with screenshots of the applications that I do [they had a very professional look] ) and since I'm waiting for an answer ...
;-)
Bon souvenir de Paris
René

Le 11 mai 2010 à 11:01, [hidden email] a écrit :

> I think we should tell Apple what we think. Perhaps someone knows where to write our ideas?
> Found the following Link:
> http://developer.apple.com/contact/
>
> Maybe, there is a better one?
>
> If all Rev users stand together - how many statements would we get?
> My mother tongue is swiss-german - there are others here, writting much better than I do!
>
> So - hey!  What do you think? Should we start a campaign?
> We could also collect adresses on a website?
> Perhaps on runrev.com ?
>
> Best regards
>
> Andreas Stämpfli
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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Re: Apple: 100 good reasons for revMobile

slylabs13
In reply to this post by andreas@medone.ch
I submitted my 2 cents. Just a note here, it will not serve us well to use this as an opportunity to flame Apple or Steve Jobs. Please keep your posts civilized and hopeful.

Bob


On May 11, 2010, at 2:01 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I think we should tell Apple what we think. Perhaps someone knows where to write our ideas?
> Found the following Link:
> http://developer.apple.com/contact/
>

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Re: Apple: 100 good reasons for revMobile

Kevin Miller
On 11/05/2010 17:57, "Bob Sneidar" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I submitted my 2 cents. Just a note here, it will not serve us well to use
> this as an opportunity to flame Apple or Steve Jobs. Please keep your posts
> civilized and hopeful.

I certainly wouldn't want to see people flame Apple or Steve Jobs. If you
have some constructive feedback for him I'm sure there would be no harm
sending it. Lets keep it professional.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ [hidden email] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
RunRev - Software construction for everyone


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Weird stack name

Marty Knapp
In reply to this post by slylabs13
I posted this once before a while back . . . but didn't get any
response, so thought I'd try again :)

I have a standalone from which I can create a stack (from a template
stack) and it is stored in a specific folder so the program can find it.
Every once in a while in this folder there is a stack with some
variation of this name: "/Resources/PrinterInfo.xml"

I can open it up and it's a stack made from my template, but where the
h*ll did this weird name come from? The stack that I intended to save is
there too, with the correct name. I'm working on an Intel Mac with
Leopard and Rev Studio 4. This does not happen often or predictably, but
I'd like to track this down before I go public with my program.

Thanks,
Marty Knapp
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Re: Apple: 100 good reasons for revMobile

Jonathan Lynch
In reply to this post by Kevin Miller
Kevin,

What was Apple's tone in their rejection?

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 1:11 PM, Kevin Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11/05/2010 17:57, "Bob Sneidar" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I submitted my 2 cents. Just a note here, it will not serve us well to
> use
> > this as an opportunity to flame Apple or Steve Jobs. Please keep your
> posts
> > civilized and hopeful.
>
> I certainly wouldn't want to see people flame Apple or Steve Jobs. If you
> have some constructive feedback for him I'm sure there would be no harm
> sending it. Lets keep it professional.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ [hidden email] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> RunRev - Software construction for everyone
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



--
Do all things with love
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Re: Apple: 100 good reasons for revMobile

François Chaplais-3
In reply to this post by Kevin Miller

Le 11 mai 2010 à 19:11, Kevin Miller a écrit :

> On 11/05/2010 17:57, "Bob Sneidar" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I submitted my 2 cents. Just a note here, it will not serve us well to use
>> this as an opportunity to flame Apple or Steve Jobs. Please keep your posts
>> civilized and hopeful.
>
> I certainly wouldn't want to see people flame Apple or Steve Jobs. If you
> have some constructive feedback for him I'm sure there would be no harm
> sending it. Lets keep it professional.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ [hidden email] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> RunRev - Software construction for everyone
>
>
Right.

I have read many things bad about Apple on this list. I, personally, do not resent Apple for the decision they made. I very much understand Apple's point of view and the fact that they value very much their independence. This is the same attachment to independence, I feel, that have lead some people to react so strongly to Apple's decision. Well, conflicts of interest are not new.

Please stop these post "Beware Apple; I am going to develop for android". As far as I am concerned, I have heard the message. I guess everybody who has read the list last week got the message. And my mother has strictly forbidden me to express my opinion on android and related Google ventures.

Retrospectively, I'd rather have kept the 700€ I spent on revMobile to buy what is soon to be my iPad. But, at the time, revMobile for the iPhone had me convinced, and I do not regret supporting runrev on this opportunity. Well, you can't win them all.

I am happy to learn that runrev will pay some attention to field formatting and perhaps an a number of request that are pending at qacenter.

Best regards,
        François

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Re: Apple: 100 good reasons for revMobile

Alex Adams
Touche'
--
Alex Adams

hawkVision — tools for solving Wicked Problems

(a)2 Technology Partners, Inc.
831-726-8013
[hidden email]
hawkVisionInfo.wordpress.com
universalConnector.wordpress.com


> From: François Chaplais <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: How to use Revolution <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 20:44:48 +0200
> To: How to use Revolution <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Apple: 100 good reasons for revMobile
>
>
> Le 11 mai 2010 à 19:11, Kevin Miller a écrit :
>
>> On 11/05/2010 17:57, "Bob Sneidar" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I submitted my 2 cents. Just a note here, it will not serve us well to use
>>> this as an opportunity to flame Apple or Steve Jobs. Please keep your posts
>>> civilized and hopeful.
>>
>> I certainly wouldn't want to see people flame Apple or Steve Jobs. If you
>> have some constructive feedback for him I'm sure there would be no harm
>> sending it. Lets keep it professional.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> Kevin Miller ~ [hidden email] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
>> RunRev - Software construction for everyone
>>
>>
> Right.
>
> I have read many things bad about Apple on this list. I, personally, do not
> resent Apple for the decision they made. I very much understand Apple's point
> of view and the fact that they value very much their independence. This is the
> same attachment to independence, I feel, that have lead some people to react
> so strongly to Apple's decision. Well, conflicts of interest are not new.
>
> Please stop these post "Beware Apple; I am going to develop for android". As
> far as I am concerned, I have heard the message. I guess everybody who has
> read the list last week got the message. And my mother has strictly forbidden
> me to express my opinion on android and related Google ventures.
>
> Retrospectively, I'd rather have kept the 700€ I spent on revMobile to buy
> what is soon to be my iPad. But, at the time, revMobile for the iPhone had me
> convinced, and I do not regret supporting runrev on this opportunity. Well,
> you can't win them all.
>
> I am happy to learn that runrev will pay some attention to field formatting
> and perhaps an a number of request that are pending at qacenter.
>
> Best regards,
> François
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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Re: Apple: 100 good reasons for revMobile

slylabs13
In reply to this post by François Chaplais-3
I will only say as I have before, if someone doesn't like a particular thread, they don't have to read it. I understand your frustration, but telling someone to not to post so you don't have to see it is, well... silly.

Bob


> Right.
>
> I have read many things bad about Apple on this list. I, personally, do not resent Apple for the decision they made. I very much understand Apple's point of view and the fact that they value very much their independence. This is the same attachment to independence, I feel, that have lead some people to react so strongly to Apple's decision. Well, conflicts of interest are not new.
>
> Please stop these post "Beware Apple; I am going to develop for android". As far as I am concerned, I have heard the message. I guess everybody who has read the list last week got the message. And my mother has strictly forbidden me to express my opinion on android and related Google ventures.
>
> Retrospectively, I'd rather have kept the 700€ I spent on revMobile to buy what is soon to be my iPad. But, at the time, revMobile for the iPhone had me convinced, and I do not regret supporting runrev on this opportunity. Well, you can't win them all.
>
> I am happy to learn that runrev will pay some attention to field formatting and perhaps an a number of request that are pending at qacenter.
>
> Best regards,
> François
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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Re: Apple: 100 good reasons for revMobile

François Chaplais-3

Le 11 mai 2010 à 21:03, Bob Sneidar a écrit :

> I will only say as I have before, if someone doesn't like a particular thread, they don't have to read it. I understand your frustration, but telling someone to not to post so you don't have to see it is, well... silly.
>
> Bob
>
Of course. I did not even read your post.
This very post will self destruct in five seconds.

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Re: Apple: 100 good reasons for revMobile

Stephen Barncard-4
In reply to this post by slylabs13
"Just hit delete" is like saying "opt-out". The noise level does get high
here, and that's the reason for the complaints. This is not a forum, it's a
linear mail list - like a freeway on-ramp - one at a time, and it does
requires a bit more netiquette, like trimming posts and keeping down the OT.

On 11 May 2010 12:03, Bob Sneidar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I will only say as I have before, if someone doesn't like a particular
> thread, they don't have to read it. I understand your frustration, but
> telling someone to not to post so you don't have to see it is, well...
> silly.
>
> Bob
>
>
> > Right.
> >
> > I have read many things bad about Apple on this list. I, personally, do
> not resent Apple for the decision they made. I very much understand Apple's
> point of view and the fact that they value very much their independence.
> This is the same attachment to independence, I feel, that have lead some
> people to react so strongly to Apple's decision. Well, conflicts of interest
> are not new.
> >
> > Please stop these post "Beware Apple; I am going to develop for android".
> As far as I am concerned, I have heard the message. I guess everybody who
> has read the list last week got the message. And my mother has strictly
> forbidden me to express my opinion on android and related Google ventures.
> >
> > Retrospectively, I'd rather have kept the 700€ I spent on revMobile to
> buy what is soon to be my iPad. But, at the time, revMobile for the iPhone
> had me convinced, and I do not regret supporting runrev on this opportunity.
> Well, you can't win them all.
> >
> > I am happy to learn that runrev will pay some attention to field
> formatting and perhaps an a number of request that are pending at qacenter.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >       François
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
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> subscription preferences:
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>
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Stephen Barncard
Back home in SF
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Re: Apple: 100 good reasons for revMobile

Matthias Rebbe
I 100% agree.

Matthias
Am 11.05.2010 um 21:21 schrieb stephen barncard:

> "Just hit delete" is like saying "opt-out". The noise level does get high
> here, and that's the reason for the complaints. This is not a forum, it's a
> linear mail list - like a freeway on-ramp - one at a time, and it does
> requires a bit more netiquette, like trimming posts and keeping down the OT.
>
> On 11 May 2010 12:03, Bob Sneidar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I will only say as I have before, if someone doesn't like a particular
>> thread, they don't have to read it. I understand your frustration, but
>> telling someone to not to post so you don't have to see it is, well...
>> silly.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>> Right.
>>>
>>> I have read many things bad about Apple on this list. I, personally, do
>> not resent Apple for the decision they made. I very much understand Apple's
>> point of view and the fact that they value very much their independence.
>> This is the same attachment to independence, I feel, that have lead some
>> people to react so strongly to Apple's decision. Well, conflicts of interest
>> are not new.
>>>
>>> Please stop these post "Beware Apple; I am going to develop for android".
>> As far as I am concerned, I have heard the message. I guess everybody who
>> has read the list last week got the message. And my mother has strictly
>> forbidden me to express my opinion on android and related Google ventures.
>>>
>>> Retrospectively, I'd rather have kept the 700€ I spent on revMobile to
>> buy what is soon to be my iPad. But, at the time, revMobile for the iPhone
>> had me convinced, and I do not regret supporting runrev on this opportunity.
>> Well, you can't win them all.
>>>
>>> I am happy to learn that runrev will pay some attention to field
>> formatting and perhaps an a number of request that are pending at qacenter.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>      François
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------
> Stephen Barncard
> Back home in SF
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
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