Unity on Windows 8

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Unity on Windows 8

Richmond Mathewson-2
Aaah..... so Microsoft have given up ripping off Apple, and have started
ripping off
Linux:

Hey: It's Compare & Contrast time again . . .  :)

1.  http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4117062526.html

2.  
http://allthingsd.com/20110601/exclusive-making-sense-of-what-we-just-learned-about-windows-8/

3.  
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/08/29/windows_8_design_to_radically_depart_from_mac_os_x_lion.html

I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each
other, but the fact that
Microsoft seems to be shifting its attention to what is going on in the
Linux world, and away
from the Apple world might mean that it is starting to perceive Linux as
more of a competitive threat than Apple.

Of course, Richmond's agenda is, as usual, to poke the good people of
RunRev to really ramp-up
their work on the Linux version of Livecode . . .  :)

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Re: Unity on Windows 8

René Micout

Le 17 sept. 2011 à 10:15, Richmond Mathewson a écrit :

> I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each other, but the fact that
> Microsoft seems to be shifting its attention to what is going on in the Linux world, and away
> from the Apple world might mean that it is starting to perceive Linux as more of a competitive threat than Apple.

Sorry Richmond ! But I think there is less risk of lawsuits from Linux than from Apple...
All predators know that it is better to address the lower...
;-)
Bon souvenir de Paris
René


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Re: Unity on Windows 8

Richmond Mathewson-2
On 09/17/2011 11:41 AM, René Micout wrote:
> Le 17 sept. 2011 à 10:15, Richmond Mathewson a écrit :
>
>> I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each other, but the fact that
>> Microsoft seems to be shifting its attention to what is going on in the Linux world, and away
>> from the Apple world might mean that it is starting to perceive Linux as more of a competitive threat than Apple.
> Sorry Richmond ! But I think there is less risk of lawsuits from Linux than from Apple...
> All predators know that it is better to address the lower...
> ;-)

Very well put.

> Bon souvenir de Paris
> René
>
>
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each
> other

It's been going on a long time....

Apple versus Microsoft: The top 20 stolen ideas of the OS wars
<http://www.infoworld.com/d/windows/apple-versus-microsoft-top-20-stolen-ideas-os-wars-046>

...and shows no sign of stopping:

5 things Apple borrowed from Android for iOS 5
<http://betanews.com/2011/06/07/5-things-apple-borrowed-from-android-for-ios-5/>

All The New iOS and iCloud Features, And Where Apple Borrowed The Ideas From
<http://www.thenoisecast.com/2011/06/all-the-new-ios-and-icloud-features-and-where-apple-borrowed-the-ideas-from/>


The latter is particularly ironic, since after all the years Apple's
been telling us how unsafe and unstable Microsoft systems are they now
want us to store our data on them:

Apple's iCloud runs on Microsoft and Amazon services
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/02/icloud_runs_on_microsoft_azure_and_amazon/>

;)

> ...but the fact that Microsoft seems to be shifting its attention to what
> is going on in the Linux world, and away from the Apple world might mean
> that it is starting to perceive Linux as more of a competitive threat
> than Apple.

When you compare the cost of their TV ads defending themselves against
Apple's attacks with the impact of radically dropped OEM pricing in
Linux-friendly markets, I'd wager the MS spends far more combating Linux
than they do Apple.

Ballmer's even said as much:

Ballmer: Linux Bigger Competitor than Apple
<http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_Apple>


> Of course, Richmond's agenda is, as usual, to poke the good people
> of RunRev to really ramp-up their work on the Linux version of
> Livecode . . .  :)

I'm with you on that one.  While there have been some impressive
improvements in the Linux engine over the last two years, it currently
costs twice as much as the Mac or Win engines yet doesn't have as many
features as either.

Heck, you can't even deploy to Android Linux from LiveCode for Linux.

Hopefully that'll change soon....

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Re: Unity on Windows 8

Roger Eller
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Richard Gaskin <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
>  I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each
>> other
>>
>
> It's been going on a long time....


I think Apple has been borrowing/taking from Linux for even longer.  Where
did spaces, widgets, and even iTunes originally come from?

Now, they're into buying out the hackers as Apple employees and interns.
 That will surly curb jailbreaking, which IMHO is a terribly nasty term for
something that should be allowed.  In Android, it is a simple built-in
checkbox to allow other sources.  It should be the end-users choice.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/16/well_known_iphone_jailbreak_hacker_visits_apple_campus_for_unknown_reasons.html

˜Roger
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

Richmond Mathewson-2
On 09/17/2011 08:50 PM, Roger Eller wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Richard Gaskin<[hidden email]
>> wrote:
>> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>
>>   I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each
>>> other
>>>
>> It's been going on a long time....
>
> I think Apple has been borrowing/taking from Linux for even longer.  Where
> did spaces, widgets, and even iTunes originally come from?
>
> Now, they're into buying out the hackers as Apple employees and interns.
>   That will surly curb jailbreaking, which IMHO is a terribly nasty term for
> something that should be allowed.

If I buy something, surely it it then mine, and I can do whatever I like
with it?

I have a friend who keeps hens in his car (it is not used for driving as
none of the birds
have passed their test yet). Nobody told him he couldn't use it for that
purpose; so he didn't have to jailbreak his car.

So "jailbreaking" is perfectly OK as the end-user (or, the OWNER) has
been unjustly
imprisoned.

>   In Android, it is a simple built-in
> checkbox to allow other sources.  It should be the end-users choice.
>
> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/16/well_known_iphone_jailbreak_hacker_visits_apple_campus_for_unknown_reasons.html
>
> ˜Roger
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

Roger Eller
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> >On 09/17/2011 08:50 PM, Roger Eller wrote:
>  > I think Apple has been borrowing/taking from Linux for even longer.
>  Where
>  > did spaces, widgets, and even iTunes originally come from?
>  >
>  > Now, they're into buying out the hackers as Apple employees and interns.
>  > That will surly curb jailbreaking, which IMHO is a terribly nasty term
> for
>  > something that should be allowed.
>
> If I buy something, surely it it then mine, and I can do whatever I like
> with it?
>
> So "jailbreaking" is perfectly OK as the end-user (or, the OWNER) has been
> unjustly
> imprisoned.


The brainwashing is "You're not unjustly imprisoned, you're being kept
inside a 'secure' facility.  ;-)

What?  Those hens don't have a license!  Well, Apple will be serving chicken
soup for dinner!

˜Roger
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

mwieder
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
Richmond-

Saturday, September 17, 2011, 10:57:36 AM, you wrote:

> If I buy something, surely it it then mine, and I can do whatever I like
> with it?

Silly boy. Haven't read EULAs in a while, have you? Here as an example
is a snippet from Microsoft's terms of service:

"When you purchase software, you are actually purchasing a license to
use the software rather than purchasing the software itself."

or, so as not to play favorites, from Apple's EULA:

"The Products transacted through the Service are licensed, not sold,
to You for use only under the terms of this license"

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Re: Unity on Windows 8

Richard Gaskin
Mark Wieder wrote:

> or, so as not to play favorites, from Apple's EULA:
>
> "The Products transacted through the Service are licensed, not sold,
> to You for use only under the terms of this license"

It's even better when Richard Dreyfuss does a dramatic reading of it:

<http://www.cnet.com/8301-30976_1-20068778-10348864.html>

;)


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Re: Unity on Windows 8

Keith (Gulf Breeze Ortho Lab)
Too funny!

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Gaskin
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 1:33 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Unity on Windows 8

Mark Wieder wrote:

> or, so as not to play favorites, from Apple's EULA:
>
> "The Products transacted through the Service are licensed, not sold,
> to You for use only under the terms of this license"

It's even better when Richard Dreyfuss does a dramatic reading of it:

<http://www.cnet.com/8301-30976_1-20068778-10348864.html>

;)


--
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  Fourth World
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

Richmond Mathewson-2
In reply to this post by mwieder
On 09/17/2011 09:27 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
> Richmond-
>
> Saturday, September 17, 2011, 10:57:36 AM, you wrote:
>
>> If I buy something, surely it it then mine, and I can do whatever I like
>> with it?
> Silly boy. Haven't read EULAs in a while, have you? Here as an example
> is a snippet from Microsoft's terms of service:

I have read a few, and generally feel a most unpleasant feeling at the
base of my spine.

>
> "When you purchase software, you are actually purchasing a license to
> use the software rather than purchasing the software itself."
>
> or, so as not to play favorites, from Apple's EULA:
>
> "The Products transacted through the Service are licensed, not sold,
> to You for use only under the terms of this license"
>

And they all seem to wobble on about laws in the State of Delaware,
Maryland or California;
none of which are applicable outwith those territories.

Yes....Well.... that is just bullying, and I really wonder when
Microsoft, for the sake of argument, is going to chase the 3 million odd
Bulgarian PCs with Pirate Windows on them, and all the software
subsequently downloaded?

Now; I have a MacMini and a G3 iMac, and they are both running Mac OS
10.4; and, guess what; naughty Richmond has ONLY one DVD with Mac OS
10.4 on it. Is this a crime? No more
than my making a backup for my own use of a DVD movie I own, or the
de-regionised RIP I made of a North American DVD that I bought, so I
could watch it on my bog-normal DVD player here in Bulgaria. As both of
the Macs are mine, and as I am not an octopus, I can only use one of
them at a time, all the end result is that I don't have to strain my
back carting one Mac around with me from home to work and back again.

What is a crime is when I start stealing software, books, underpants and
what-have-you.

What is also a crime is when I start making multiple copies of my DVDs
(whether movies or software) and sell them off my wheelbarrow in the market.

Unfortunately, I come from a good family, and had a good education, so
know the difference between morals, laws and bullying; the first two
don't always coincide, and the last is always wrong.

Bye-the-bye; when my underpants wear out they get converted into
cleaning cloths; I
wonder if this isn't breaking some sort of "change of use" agreement I,
unintentionally
got involved with when I purchased them.

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Re: Unity on Windows 8

Peter Alcibiades
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
Richard - you say

"Heck, you can't even deploy to Android Linux from LiveCode for Linux."

Thanks for letting me know, I was about to buy an upgrade to my Linux subscription to allow me to do just that!  Oh dear.  Fortunately O'Reilly seems to be having a half price sale that includes several Android titles, so we will just have to dig up some other tool to get the job done.

Peter
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

Judy Perry
In reply to this post by mwieder
We spend a good week in class going over EULAs.  Quite eye-opening for
them.  I'm especially fond of the nuclear power plant clause in the iTunes
license agreement.

Judy

On Sat, 17 Sep 2011, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Silly boy. Haven't read EULAs in a while, have you? Here as an example
> is a snippet from Microsoft's terms of service:
>
> "When you purchase software, you are actually purchasing a license to
> use the software rather than purchasing the software itself."
>
> or, so as not to play favorites, from Apple's EULA:
>
> "The Products transacted through the Service are licensed, not sold,
> to You for use only under the terms of this license"

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Re: Unity on Windows 8

slylabs13
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
Or it might mean that they have taken so much from Apple already, that to take more would almost certainly result in another ugly lawsuit and this time Apple has the money to fight it.

I have a saying: You know as much after you say "Maybe..." as you did before you said it. I imagine others could come up with 8 or 9 more maybe's and in the end we would still be no closer to MS's motives.

The real motivator in my opinion is the fact that MS has these Software Assurance contracts that promise them free updates within a period of time. This means that MS MUST PRODUCE a "new" product at least twice within that time period (usually 3 years) or else those in the program are going to claim to have been swindled. Now there are only so many ways to do a thing, and precious few of those are going to be received as "better" than the ones before it. I am going to guess that under the Windows hood, not a lot has changed.

So it's not about what is "best" for them anymore. It is about what is required.

Bob


On Sep 17, 2011, at 1:15 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each other, but the fact that
> Microsoft seems to be shifting its attention to what is going on in the Linux world, and away
> from the Apple world might mean that it is starting to perceive Linux as more of a competitive threat than Apple.


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Re: Unity on Windows 8

slylabs13
In reply to this post by Richmond Mathewson-2
I wonder how many of these EULA's we would have if no human being ever pirated software? I wonder what kind of copy protection we would have if no one ever copied an MP3? All you who have or ever have had copies of music you never bought and have chimed in on the evils of EULA's or copy protection, just stop for a moment and ask yourself how much you have contributed to the present situation.

Lawyers pretty much run the world for the reason that people in general have created a market for them. If we want to place blame, let's start at the source, which is that crooked neighbor or the drug dealers down the street, or perhaps even ourselves. If we are unwilling to turn them in as our civic duty, if any of us have a tool he borrowed from his neighbor and never got around to telling him, then we might start looking in the mirror for the real culprit in the blame game.

Let the flames begin! :-)

Bob


On Sep 17, 2011, at 10:57 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> On 09/17/2011 08:50 PM, Roger Eller wrote:
>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Richard Gaskin<[hidden email]
>>> wrote:
>>> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>>
>>>  I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each
>>>> other
>>>>
>>> It's been going on a long time....
>>
>> I think Apple has been borrowing/taking from Linux for even longer.  Where
>> did spaces, widgets, and even iTunes originally come from?
>>
>> Now, they're into buying out the hackers as Apple employees and interns.
>>  That will surly curb jailbreaking, which IMHO is a terribly nasty term for
>> something that should be allowed.
>
> If I buy something, surely it it then mine, and I can do whatever I like with it?
>
> I have a friend who keeps hens in his car (it is not used for driving as none of the birds
> have passed their test yet). Nobody told him he couldn't use it for that purpose; so he didn't have to jailbreak his car.
>
> So "jailbreaking" is perfectly OK as the end-user (or, the OWNER) has been unjustly
> imprisoned.
>
>>  In Android, it is a simple built-in
>> checkbox to allow other sources.  It should be the end-users choice.
>>
>> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/16/well_known_iphone_jailbreak_hacker_visits_apple_campus_for_unknown_reasons.html
>>
>> ˜Roger
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by slylabs13
Bob Sneidar wrote:

> Or it might mean that they have taken so much from Apple already, that to take more would almost certainly result in another ugly lawsuit and this time Apple has the money to fight it.

To clarify, Apple lost their suit against Microsoft on the grounds that
the only protectable elements had been licensed, and the rest was deemed
by the court to be "not original":

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_vs_microsoft#Court_case>


This outcome is similar in many respects to that of the Dutch court's
ruling for the EU in the recent Apple vs. Samsung case, in which nine
out of ten of Apple's allegations against Samsung were dismissed,
including all of those involving the design of the physical device
itself (so much for "blatant copying").

The only item upheld by the court was the bounce-scroll effect (note to
LiveCode developers:  if you emulate this, be sure to only use it on iOS
or fear the wrath), and even there the judge gave Samsung several weeks
to roll out a patch to correct that (the injunction won't be enforced
until mid-October, and only if Samsung fails to comment out those two or
three lines of code).

<http://www.businessworld.in/businessworld/content/Samsung-Wins-Dutch-Court.html>

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Re: Unity on Windows 8

mwieder
In reply to this post by slylabs13
Bob-

Monday, September 19, 2011, 9:31:32 AM, you wrote:

> I wonder how many of these EULA's we would have if no human being

I couldn't resist... xkcd to the rescue...

https://www.xkcd.com/501/

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Re: Unity on Windows 8

slylabs13
Har!

:-)

On Sep 19, 2011, at 8:06 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Bob-
>
> Monday, September 19, 2011, 9:31:32 AM, you wrote:
>
>> I wonder how many of these EULA's we would have if no human being
>
> I couldn't resist... xkcd to the rescue...
>
> https://www.xkcd.com/501/
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
> [hidden email]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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