Using Revolution only in a command line mode?

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Using Revolution only in a command line mode?

Glen Bojsza
Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anybody has used  Revolution in a non-Gui enviroment. I
am finding several cases where telecom vendors don't support a windowing
system on their linux products, only the command line. I believe that
Metacard use to be able to run in this type of enviroment and hope that
revolution would.

Any help, direction or insight would be appreciated.

regards,
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Re: Using Revolution only in a command line mode?

Stephen Barncard
>I was wondering if anybody has used  Revolution in a non-Gui enviroment. I

I can't see why not. I haven't done it exactly in an app, but I use
command-mode every day in the message box to test code snippets
commands and functions. Your entire command line project could be a
field on a card on a single stack. Make a 'splash screen' executable
and put libraries of routines in a folder (and within the .app
package on Mac OSX).


Programming a simple command line app would be an interesting change of pace.
Adapting a gui would be harder - but not impossible. Something could
be rigged to the menupick handler...you could also employ a subset of
features.

The internal messaging system handles events.. your command line
could be parsed for accuracy then 'sent' to the engine. (remember the
'scriptLimits').

If it were done for a VT-100 terminal standards, you could do a lot
of fancy stuff with cursors placed wherever you want on the screen,
simulating a windowed environment.

Theoretically, it should easier overall to make an app without a GUI
than with. You can pass any number of parameters in a command line
and get info or errors on return. Then 'all' you have to do is the
business logic.

But of course it will be harder for newbies to use. You'll have to
use 'modes' if things get complex.

I did several in Apple Basic. A lot of menus within menus for help (
?  ) makes it a bit easier to use. And then somebody wrote a 'strap
on' gui thing for apple basic by '82 that allowed for different
'windows' on screen and pulldown menus...and then lisa, then the
mac...and...

>Hello everyone,
>
>I was wondering if anybody has used  Revolution in a non-Gui enviroment. I
>am finding several cases where telecom vendors don't support a windowing
>system on their linux products, only the command line. I believe that
>Metacard use to be able to run in this type of enviroment and hope that
>revolution would.
>
>Any help, direction or insight would be appreciated.
>
>regards,

--
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -
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Re: Using Revolution only in a command line mode?

xtalkprogrammer
In reply to this post by Glen Bojsza
Hi Glen,

I am working on a command line utility for Revolution. In fact,  
Metacard used to be a fully functional command line utility in  
itself, but this wonderful feature is definitely broken with the new  
file format. Additionally, it is no longer possible to run stacks the  
same way you can do with scripts written in Perl, Python, AppleScript  
and other scripting languages.

The application I am making runs single line scripts from the command  
line, unless you specify a location of a file that may contain up to  
10 lines of script. Later, it will also be possible to add libraries  
with longer scripts. If you like this, contact me off-list and I'll  
send you a demo.

Best,

Mark

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Op 13-mei-2006, om 17:57 heeft Glen Bojsza het volgende geschreven:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I was wondering if anybody has used  Revolution in a non-Gui  
> enviroment. I
> am finding several cases where telecom vendors don't support a  
> windowing
> system on their linux products, only the command line. I believe that
> Metacard use to be able to run in this type of enviroment and hope  
> that
> revolution would.
>
> Any help, direction or insight would be appreciated.
>
> regards,

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Drs. Mark Schonewille

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Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
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Re: Using Revolution only in a command line mode?

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Glen Bojsza
Mark Schonewille wrote:

> In fact, Metacard used to be a fully functional command line utility
> in itself, but this wonderful feature is definitely broken with the
> new file format.

What specifically changed in the file format that prevents faceless use?
What are the symptoms?

> Additionally, it is no longer possible to run stacks the same way
> you can do with scripts written in Perl, Python, AppleScript  
> and other scripting languages.

You mean the engine can no longer be used for CGI work?

Unfortunate indeed.

Do you have BZ numbers for these issues?

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Re: Using Revolution only in a command line mode?

xtalkprogrammer
I didn't say that one can no longer use Revolution as a faceless  
application, Richard. Rev stacks used to be shell scripts in  
themselves, which is no longer the case as of Rev 2.7.0.

This has nothing to do with the CGI engine, though. For CGI, I  
recommend the non-cgi Linux 2.0 engine. The cgi-version seems to be  
broken.

I haven't reported this to BZ yet. Currently, I have 20 bugs which I  
still have to check and report. I'll add this issue to my list.

Best,

Mark

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Op 14-mei-2006, om 0:28 heeft Richard Gaskin het volgende geschreven:

> Mark Schonewille wrote:
>
>> In fact, Metacard used to be a fully functional command line utility
>> in itself, but this wonderful feature is definitely broken with the
>> new file format.
>
> What specifically changed in the file format that prevents faceless  
> use?
> What are the symptoms?
>
>> Additionally, it is no longer possible to run stacks the same way
>> you can do with scripts written in Perl, Python, AppleScript  and  
>> other scripting languages.
>
> You mean the engine can no longer be used for CGI work?
>
> Unfortunate indeed.
>
> Do you have BZ numbers for these issues?
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal

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Re: Using Revolution only in a command line mode?

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Glen Bojsza
Mark Schonewille wrote:
> I didn't say that one can no longer use Revolution as a faceless  
> application, Richard. Rev stacks used to be shell scripts in  
> themselves, which is no longer the case as of Rev 2.7.0.

I must be slow on the uptake today, so bear with me, but AKAIK stack
files were always binary.  What is a "shell script" that is binary data
in a proprietary format?

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  Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Using Revolution only in a command line mode?

xtalkprogrammer
Hi Richard,

When you look at the beginning of a MetaCard file, you see a few  
shell commands. Actually, a path, 3 comments and a shell command. It  
tells the shell to start the MetaCard executable !/bin/sh/mc if you  
have that installed.

This is different in the new stack file format, which doesn't contain  
these commands. Normally, you don't use this because you launch  
stacks from the Finder and open them with the Revolution IDE, but you  
might launch stacks in the old format from the command line and have  
the stack launched with the correct executable automatically.

Stacks are binary data, but they start as text. The scripts, too, are  
saved as normal text.  In this respect, the old file format might be  
somewhat comparable to postscript.

I tried this once, before I had to reinstall everything due to a  
crash. It seemed to work fine here. Hopefully, the reason for the  
crash and the reason why I could launch stacks from the command line  
don't coincide ;-)

Best,

Mark

--

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Consultancy and Software Engineering
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Salery is the easiest way to get your own web store on-line: http://
www.salery.biz/salery.html



Op 14-mei-2006, om 2:43 heeft Richard Gaskin het volgende geschreven:

> Mark Schonewille wrote:
>> I didn't say that one can no longer use Revolution as a faceless  
>> application, Richard. Rev stacks used to be shell scripts in  
>> themselves, which is no longer the case as of Rev 2.7.0.
>
> I must be slow on the uptake today, so bear with me, but AKAIK  
> stack files were always binary.  What is a "shell script" that is  
> binary data in a proprietary format?
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal

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Re: Using Revolution only in a command line mode?

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Glen Bojsza
Mark Schonewille wrote:

> When you look at the beginning of a MetaCard file, you see a few  
> shell commands. Actually, a path, 3 comments and a shell command. It  
> tells the shell to start the MetaCard executable !/bin/sh/mc if you  
> have that installed.

Specifically:

   #!/bin/sh
   # MetaCard 2.4 stack
   # The following is not ASCII text,
   # so now would be a good time to q out of more

Seems the last line is just saying that opening the file in any shell
editor isn't a useful thing to do.

Is there a value to running MC stacks through a shell that I'm missing?

> This is different in the new stack file format, which doesn't contain  
> these commands. Normally, you don't use this because you launch  
> stacks from the Finder and open them with the Revolution IDE, but you  
> might launch stacks in the old format from the command line and have  
> the stack launched with the correct executable automatically.

But the executable specified is sh, which doesn't know what to do with a
stack file (hence the last line).

I may be tired, but I just don't see a major benefit to the old header,
not any significant loss for new binary format to use a different header
than the old binary format -- so long as the new format contains at
least enough human-readable info to identify the file format.  I don't
use v2.7 -- does it?

--
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  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
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Re: Using Revolution only in a command line mode?

Dar Scott
In reply to this post by Glen Bojsza

On May 13, 2006, at 9:57 AM, Glen Bojsza wrote:

> I was wondering if anybody has used  Revolution in a non-Gui  
> environment. I
> am finding several cases where telecom vendors don't support a  
> windowing
> system on their linux products, only the command line. I believe that
> Metacard use to be able to run in this type of environment and hope  
> that
> revolution would.

I have run Rev as command-line on Windows and have run a command-line  
version on OS X.  I don't know if they will work in a non-GUI  
environment, I can run them without using any GUI that I know of.  I  
have also run standalones from the command line, but I think they  
need to have a GUI environment.

There have been some bugs in command-line parsing for Windows.  There  
are workarounds if you don't use quotes.  I suspect these bugs do not  
show up in Linux.

There are some bugs/features in Windows concerning stdin and stdout  
that limit your use.

Dar




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Compressing Rev Compiled Apps?

Garrett Hylltun-2
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
Greetings,

Has anyone ever compressed rev compiled apps with UPX or any other
executable compressor?

I tried the latest UPX on a rev windows exe, and the rev made exe didn't
agree with being compressed by UPX.  At least that is using default
settings with UPX.

-Garrett
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Re: Compressing Rev Compiled Apps?

Chipp Walters
I'm pretty sure it's not possible. I tried to do it a few times, and always
encountered errors.

On 5/15/06, Garrett Hylltun <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> Has anyone ever compressed rev compiled apps with UPX or any other
> executable compressor?
>
>
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Use emulated look for app permanently

Garrett Hylltun-2
Rev 2.6.1 / Linux

Greetings,

Is it possible to permanently use one of the emulated "look & feel"
themes in a standalone rev app?

That motif is just so ugly that I'd rather use the Windows emulated look
all the time for any Linux app I make.

Thanks,
-Garrett
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Re: Use emulated look for app permanently

Judy Perry
Hi Garrett,

I think the only thing you can do is take screenshots of the various
look'n'feel elements and paste them in individually, scripting each part
that's supposed to do something (e.g., maximize/minimize/close elements,
etc.).  I don't know how you'd handle resizing, though.  Maybe by making
the overall window look'n'feel larger than the stack's size and script
movement of the resizing handle.

Judy

On Sat, 20 May 2006, Garrett Hylltun wrote:

> Rev 2.6.1 / Linux
>
> Greetings,
>
> Is it possible to permanently use one of the emulated "look & feel"
> themes in a standalone rev app?
>
> That motif is just so ugly that I'd rather use the Windows emulated look
> all the time for any Linux app I make.

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Re: Use emulated look for app permanently

Garrett Hylltun-2
Hi Judy,

Well, I don't mean the title bar and resize, just the gui elements that
are actually affected when we use the look & feel emulation in Rev itself.

Whether it's Gnome or KDE, the title bar and resize stuff is all fine,
it's just that ugly motif look that comes with using the linux engine in
Rev that's a bummer.

Using the Windows emulated or Mac OS Platinum emulated looks far better
than the Motif.

Thanks,
-Garrett

Judy Perry wrote:

> Hi Garrett,
>
> I think the only thing you can do is take screenshots of the various
> look'n'feel elements and paste them in individually, scripting each part
> that's supposed to do something (e.g., maximize/minimize/close elements,
> etc.).  I don't know how you'd handle resizing, though.  Maybe by making
> the overall window look'n'feel larger than the stack's size and script
> movement of the resizing handle.
>
> Judy
>
> On Sat, 20 May 2006, Garrett Hylltun wrote:
>
>> Rev 2.6.1 / Linux
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Is it possible to permanently use one of the emulated "look & feel"
>> themes in a standalone rev app?
>>
>> That motif is just so ugly that I'd rather use the Windows emulated look
>> all the time for any Linux app I make.
[snip]
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Hue, Saturation and Value question

Garrett Hylltun-2
In reply to this post by Garrett Hylltun-2
Rev 2.6.1 / OS X

Greetings,

Does anyone know what the math equations are behind getting the
Saturation and Value of a color?

Hmmmm, maybe I should elaborate more.

I have sliders setup for RGB, and I actually have figured out how to
setup a slider for Hue, but I can't figure out how to code some sliders
for Saturation and Value.

Does anyone have any info on this topic?


Thanks,
-Garrett
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Re: Use emulated look for app permanently

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by Garrett Hylltun-2
Garrett Hylltun wrote:
> Rev 2.6.1 / Linux
>
> Greetings,
>
> Is it possible to permanently use one of the emulated "look & feel"
> themes in a standalone rev app?
>
> That motif is just so ugly that I'd rather use the Windows emulated look
> all the time for any Linux app I make.

Try setting the "lookandfeel" property to either "windows 95" or
"macintosh". This is a global property that affects the entire
environment. I haven't actually tried it in a standalone but it is worth
a test.

--
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Re: Use emulated look for app permanently

Garrett Hylltun-2
J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Garrett Hylltun wrote:
>> Rev 2.6.1 / Linux
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Is it possible to permanently use one of the emulated "look & feel"
>> themes in a standalone rev app?
>>
>> That motif is just so ugly that I'd rather use the Windows emulated
>> look all the time for any Linux app I make.
>
> Try setting the "lookandfeel" property to either "windows 95" or
> "macintosh". This is a global property that affects the entire
> environment. I haven't actually tried it in a standalone but it is worth
> a test.
>


I did try that.  But it doesn't stick with the standalone  :-(  Which
amazed me since I've seen several people ask how to get the look & feel
emulation to not stick with their standalones.

-Garrett
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RE: Use emulated look for app permanently

shaosean
In reply to this post by Garrett Hylltun-2
on startup you can set the "lookAndFeel" (i believe that's the command) look
in the dictionary

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Re: Use emulated look for app permanently

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by Garrett Hylltun-2
Garrett Hylltun wrote:
 > J. Landman Gay wrote:
 >> Garrett Hylltun wrote:
 >>> Rev 2.6.1 / Linux
 >>>
 >>> Greetings,
 >>>
 >>> Is it possible to permanently use one of the emulated "look & feel"
 >>> themes in a standalone rev app?
 >>>
 >>> That motif is just so ugly that I'd rather use the Windows emulated
 >>> look all the time for any Linux app I make.
 >>
 >> Try setting the "lookandfeel" property to either "windows 95" or
 >> "macintosh". This is a global property that affects the entire
 >> environment. I haven't actually tried it in a standalone but it is
 >> worth a test.
 >>
 >
 >
 > I did try that.  But it doesn't stick with the standalone  :-(  Which
 > amazed me since I've seen several people ask how to get the look & feel
 > emulation to not stick with their standalones.

It's not a permanent property of the stack, it is an engine runtime
property. Try setting it in a preOpenStack handler.

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Re: Hue, Saturation and Value question

Ken Ray
In reply to this post by Garrett Hylltun-2
On 5/20/06 1:29 PM, "Garrett Hylltun" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Rev 2.6.1 / OS X
>
> Greetings,
>
> Does anyone know what the math equations are behind getting the
> Saturation and Value of a color?
>
> Hmmmm, maybe I should elaborate more.
>
> I have sliders setup for RGB, and I actually have figured out how to
> setup a slider for Hue, but I can't figure out how to code some sliders
> for Saturation and Value.
>
> Does anyone have any info on this topic?

Check out Monte Goulding's libColor, which converts between RGB, HEX, HSV,
CMYK, Pantone, and 'text' (i.e. Rev's phrases for colors):

    http://www.sweattechnologies.com/rev/


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [hidden email]

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