WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

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WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Jerry Daniels-2
Friends,

I just followed the Apple WWDC Keynote live blog by MacWorld. I have  
to say:

I saw some very impressive integration of software and hardware. Apple  
is definitely leading the way with hybrid design. They've gone way  
beyond industrial design or "user interface" or "user experience."  
This stuff will be hard to copy. And it has tremendous traction in the  
market already.

Mr. Jobs made it abundantly clear that there are two ways to get apps  
on the iOS 4 platform (iOS 4 = iPad + iPhone + iPod Touch): the  
curated (and sometime just hated) app store and HTML5 which he made  
clear was WIDE open.

There is a wonderful opportunity to create rich HTML5 apps for this  
platform much faster by taking advantage of On-Rev and the revServer  
technologies. Sarah, MJ and I are doing our version of just that with  
Rodeo. We would not have made it to pre-release in month without  
revServer technology.

Anyways, great stuff from Apple. Go to their front page (http://apple.com 
) to see a couple really nice videos. One is about the iPhone 4 and  
the other is about their incredible built-in video chat called  
FaceTime. The FaceTime video is quite touching, actually.

Forgot to mention iPhone 4 also has built-in video cam AND iMovie!  
Smokin' hot.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Follow the Rodeo discussion:
http://rodeoapps.com/rodeo-discuss-among-yourselves

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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Kay C Lan
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:50 AM, Jerry Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:


> The FaceTime video is quite touching, actually.
>
> Interesting marketing tactic, having ticked off all those developers I
guess he's now targeting deaf people in the hope they haven't heard what he
did ;-) There's probably more deaf people in the world than iOS developers
so I think he might still be able to sell a few of these.
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Stephen Barncard-4
This was a really big deal for tech today for many reasons:

the new phone is outrageous.
first real video phone  ( I was at the 1964 world's fair and remember the
first videophone on display )
the Retina display
camera 720p iMovie
gyroscope - detects rotation around gravity.

There was a dreaded glitch in the presentation, but it wasn't Apple. The
wifi (and net feed) at the Moscone was overwhelmed - there were so many
personal devices and laptops in the crowd sucking bandwidth that it brought
Job's demonstration of the book app to an embarrassing crawl.  Jobs had to
hold up the keynote until everyone turned off their wifi connections. Surely
this is some kind of tipping point.

The ad thing is brilliant, too.

Jerry, you said that Rodeo might be supporting iPhone at some point?



On 7 June 2010 16:02, Kay C Lan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:50 AM, Jerry Daniels <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
> > The FaceTime video is quite touching, actually.
> >
> > Interesting marketing tactic, having ticked off all those developers I
> guess he's now targeting deaf people in the hope they haven't heard what he
> did ;-) There's probably more deaf people in the world than iOS developers
> so I think he might still be able to sell a few of these.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



--
-------------------------
Stephen Barncard
San Francisco
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Jerry Daniels-2
Stephen,

Sarah and I have been surprised how much easier it has been to cover multiple devices. If it has webkit we're pretty much good in Rodeo. iPhone is looking good to us right about now.

So YES we sure are gonna support it!

Editing our objects on the iPhone itself might be challenging due to lack of screen real estate whereas it's much easier on the iPad. But our Mac editor will groove on making an iPhone app. This is a big week for us as we're adding a bunch of cool stuff like faceless objects and inheritance. Hard to contain my exuberance.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Join the Rodeo discussion:
http://rodeoapps.com/rodeo-discuss-among-yourselves

On Jun 7, 2010, at 7:31 PM, stephen barncard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This was a really big deal for tech today for many reasons:
>
> the new phone is outrageous.
> first real video phone  ( I was at the 1964 world's fair and remember the
> first videophone on display )
> the Retina display
> camera 720p iMovie
> gyroscope - detects rotation around gravity.
>
> There was a dreaded glitch in the presentation, but it wasn't Apple. The
> wifi (and net feed) at the Moscone was overwhelmed - there were so many
> personal devices and laptops in the crowd sucking bandwidth that it brought
> Job's demonstration of the book app to an embarrassing crawl.  Jobs had to
> hold up the keynote until everyone turned off their wifi connections. Surely
> this is some kind of tipping point.
>
> The ad thing is brilliant, too.
>
> Jerry, you said that Rodeo might be supporting iPhone at some point?
>
>
>
> On 7 June 2010 16:02, Kay C Lan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:50 AM, Jerry Daniels <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The FaceTime video is quite touching, actually.
>>>
>>> Interesting marketing tactic, having ticked off all those developers I
>> guess he's now targeting deaf people in the hope they haven't heard what he
>> did ;-) There's probably more deaf people in the world than iOS developers
>> so I think he might still be able to sell a few of these.
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------
> Stephen Barncard
> San Francisco
> _______________________________________________
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Kay C Lan
In reply to this post by Jerry Daniels-2
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:50 AM, Jerry Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> There is a wonderful opportunity to create rich HTML5 apps
>
> Along with iPhone 4 I see Apple released Safari 5 today, with additional
who ha about HTML5. I've been a big fan of BBEdit for a long time, and love
their HTML support, but even today there seems to be no support (wrong word
because obviously you can still write HTML5 with BBEdit) for HMTL5 like
there is for current versions of HTML. Searching the BareBones website
produces no hits. So how standard is HTML5? I guess I should be asking
BareBones.

I also notice on the Safari 5 'What's New' page that they list 'HTML5
offline storage' as a feature that is supported. Anyone have any experience
with this. How much can you actually do 'offline'?
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Sarah Reichelt-2
> I also notice on the Safari 5 'What's New' page that they list 'HTML5
> offline storage' as a feature that is supported. Anyone have any experience
> with this. How much can you actually do 'offline'?

Lots :-)

We always had cookies which could store small snippets of data locally.
Now with HTML5, we also have session storage variables (temporary),
local storage variables (permanent) and even SQLite databases.

Cheers,
Sarah

Rodeo discussion:
http://rodeoapps.com/rodeo-discuss-among-yourselves
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Kay C Lan
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Sarah Reichelt <[hidden email]>wrote:

>
> We always had cookies which could store small snippets of data locally.
> Now with HTML5, we also have session storage variables (temporary),
> local storage variables (permanent) and even SQLite databases.
>
> Are you suggesting then, that if I use HTML5 (rodeo) to dynamically create
several pages of content - whilst online, and those pages were to say
contain a form that interacted with SQLite, that whilst offline I might be
able to dynamically interact with SQLite, ie make entries into a field that
searches the SQLite db and have results dynamically presented to me -
although the base page template wouldn't change?

I currently have a postgreSQL db I can access from On-Rev, which is great as
long as I can connect. Once I loose connection, I can no longer do searches.
It would be great to be able to push the db data into SQLite on the iPhone,
be able to continually query it no matter where I am, then purge the data
when finished.

Does that sound doable with HTML5 + On-Rev + SQLite + iPhone?

Thanks for your thoughts.
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Sarah Reichelt-2
>> We always had cookies which could store small snippets of data locally.
>> Now with HTML5, we also have session storage variables (temporary),
>> local storage variables (permanent) and even SQLite databases.
>>
>> Are you suggesting then, that if I use HTML5 (rodeo) to dynamically create
> several pages of content - whilst online, and those pages were to say
> contain a form that interacted with SQLite, that whilst offline I might be
> able to dynamically interact with SQLite, ie make entries into a field that
> searches the SQLite db and have results dynamically presented to me -
> although the base page template wouldn't change?
>
> I currently have a postgreSQL db I can access from On-Rev, which is great as
> long as I can connect. Once I loose connection, I can no longer do searches.
> It would be great to be able to push the db data into SQLite on the iPhone,
> be able to continually query it no matter where I am, then purge the data
> when finished.
>
> Does that sound doable with HTML5 + On-Rev + SQLite + iPhone?


Yes it does. The SQLite database is stored on your device and should
be accessible any time.
You may need to do something with caches & manifests so the page will
operate without a connection, but it is certainly doable.

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Kay C Lan
OOOhhhh :-)

If you ever do an example on your website please let us know.

Thanks

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Sarah Reichelt <[hidden email]>wrote:

> >> We always had cookies which could store small snippets of data locally.
> >> Now with HTML5, we also have session storage variables (temporary),
> >> local storage variables (permanent) and even SQLite databases.
> >>
> >> Are you suggesting then, that if I use HTML5 (rodeo) to dynamically
> create
> > several pages of content - whilst online, and those pages were to say
> > contain a form that interacted with SQLite, that whilst offline I might
> be
> > able to dynamically interact with SQLite, ie make entries into a field
> that
> > searches the SQLite db and have results dynamically presented to me -
> > although the base page template wouldn't change?
> >
> > I currently have a postgreSQL db I can access from On-Rev, which is great
> as
> > long as I can connect. Once I loose connection, I can no longer do
> searches.
> > It would be great to be able to push the db data into SQLite on the
> iPhone,
> > be able to continually query it no matter where I am, then purge the data
> > when finished.
> >
> > Does that sound doable with HTML5 + On-Rev + SQLite + iPhone?
>
>
> Yes it does. The SQLite database is stored on your device and should
> be accessible any time.
> You may need to do something with caches & manifests so the page will
> operate without a connection, but it is certainly doable.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Robert Mann
In reply to this post by Jerry Daniels-2
HTML5 local storage seems to present some security issues. At least raise some serious ethical questions about how to use it and what for.

I think basically users will eventually get .. (censored) unless one build a specific control interface to give that power back to users.

http://dev.w3.org/html5/webstorage/

For Rodéo apps, if each user shares a space on a common shared server, than all the local datas of user X are accessible to all different rodeo apps, So far I understood. Not reassuring!

Though, it's not clear to me if the key is the domain name or the actual server : if I open a site with domainNameY.com and the site is actually hosted on host.com, what will be the local storage named?

What I understood is : host.com will be the "primary" key for all local storage. And using sub folders will not allow to restrict the scope.
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Jerry Daniels-2
Not so. No.

Each developer has own space. If developer INVITES someone in...as a  
teammate, then they share.

Vampire rules. Need an invite to join another developer.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Follow the Rodeo discussion:
http://rodeoapps.com/rodeo-discuss-among-yourselves



On Jun 8, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Robert Mann wrote:

> For Rodéo apps, if each user shares a space on a common shared  
> server, than
> all the local datas of user X are accessible to all different rodeo  
> apps, So
> far I understood. Not reassuring!

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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Mike Bonner
Actually, I believe the following (from the provided link) is what is
being referred to:

7.2 Cross-directory attacks

Different authors sharing one host name, for example users hosting
content on geocities.com, all share one local storage object. There is
no feature to restrict the access by pathname. Authors on shared hosts
are therefore recommended to avoid using these features, as it would
be trivial for other authors to read the data and overwrite it.

Even if a path-restriction feature was made available, the usual DOM
scripting security model would make it trivial to bypass this
protection and access the data from any path.

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Jerry Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Not so. No.
>
> Each developer has own space. If developer INVITES someone in...as a
> teammate, then they share.
>
> Vampire rules. Need an invite to join another developer.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry Daniels
>
> Follow the Rodeo discussion:
> http://rodeoapps.com/rodeo-discuss-among-yourselves
>
>
>
> On Jun 8, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Robert Mann wrote:
>
>> For Rodéo apps, if each user shares a space on a common shared server,
>> than
>> all the local datas of user X are accessible to all different rodeo apps,
>> So
>> far I understood. Not reassuring!
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Sumner, Walton
In reply to this post by Jerry Daniels-2
Sorry if this has been discussed and I missed it, but it looks like Firefox 4 (or 3.7, or earlier) hopes to deliver HTML5 and multitouch, as well as the local data storage. Do we know if On-Rev is on track to host multitouch browser interfaces? If so, I would suddenly have a compelling reason to get facile with On-Rev and HTML5.

I would guess that the iOS version of Safari will eventually support multitouch?

This video purports to show a Firefox browser window supporting multitouch painting:
http://www.labnol.org/internet/firefox-logo-drawn-using-firefox/10579/

Walton Sumner
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Robert Mann
In reply to this post by Mike Bonner
Yes indeed, Mike, i understand jerry's answer as far as server side accounts are concerned.

I was just pointing out that in the context of "html5 local storage", if and when a web app uses that storage, then there are issues of security.

I'm working on an eDemocracy site & app. i'll try hard to make it as secure as possible in order not to allow anybody to gather information about what somebody else think.

What troubles me is at the same time to see a big move towards mobile advertisement AND the launching of HTML5 local storage which unlike cookies (which have caused trouble in the minds!) can have persistent datas, and much more datas.

So I beleive it could be a good thing to be very clear on this data policy with users, for a change!

Actually I do have a question on this HTML5 specifs : how can the user monitor datas? Has he got the right to go and inspect? or is it context dependant, e.i only a javascript program imbedded in a page of the said domain could get to the datas? If anybody has a clue, thanks!
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Jerry Daniels-2
Robert,

These are excellent issues and questions. We have a very robust  
discussion area for thoughts and comments from everyone. We also have  
monthly online (GoToMeeting) summits for pre-release registrants where  
we review all relevant technological issues...from syntax and language  
to architecture and scope. We want a healthy exchange of ideas while  
we build.

It's our goal to have the highest performance, most secure solutions  
money can buy. We really want our hosting to be A-1. We have chosen a  
premium provider and review performance and configurations frequently.  
I have a good background in server-side architecture, security and  
performance.

When I do run into my own ignorance, I know what to ask and whom to  
ask. Also, Sarah and MJ are very knowledgeable, and they ARE both  
mothers. They are endowed with great reserves of common sense and good  
judgement.

HOWEVER...

We are now in a gray area as far as discussion here on the How to Use  
Revolution list goes. I'm between a rock and a hard place. I don't  
want to appear unresponsive to your and other questions, but I also  
don't want to wear out my welcome here. I try to give quick answers  
and then redirect to our discussion group.

So follow our discussion area and participate. It's free. Or better  
yet, actually get involved. Buy into the project and help guide it as  
we go one step at a time. We are going to listen most closely to the  
people we are committing to us and our project early-on.

There aren't many opportunities to grow a new dev environment for a  
new class of device. This is a huge technical opportunity for everyone  
involved. Especially for Sarah, MJ and me. We want to share it with  
others, and we want it to be financially rewarding for the first 250  
people involved (253 counting the three of us).

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Follow the Rodeo discussion:
http://rodeoapps.com/rodeo-discuss-among-yourselves

On Jun 8, 2010, at 3:09 PM, Robert Mann wrote:

> Yes indeed, Mike, i understand jerry's answer as far as server side  
> accounts
> are concerned.
>
> I was just pointing out that in the context of "html5 local  
> storage", if and
> when a web app uses that storage, then there are issues of security.
>
> I'm working on an eDemocracy site & app. i'll try hard to make it as  
> secure
> as possible in order not to allow anybody to gather information  
> about what
> somebody else think.
>
> What troubles me is at the same time to see a big move towards mobile
> advertisement AND the launching of HTML5 local storage which unlike  
> cookies
> (which have caused trouble in the minds!) can have persistent datas,  
> and
> much more datas.
>
> So I beleive it could be a good thing to be very clear on this data  
> policy
> with users, for a change!
>
> Actually I do have a question on this HTML5 specifs : how can the user
> monitor datas? Has he got the right to go and inspect? or is it  
> context
> dependant, e.i only a javascript program imbedded in a page of the  
> said
> domain could get to the datas? If anybody has a clue, thanks!

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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

mwieder
Jerry-

Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 1:34:52 PM, you wrote:

> people involved (253 counting the three of us).

Dude-

You need three more people to make it an even number. Although 253 is
the product of two primes, which is also kind of cool.

--
-Mark Wieder
 [hidden email]

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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Jerry Daniels-2
I am from Austin and studied the sub-genius manifesto with care. I believe in slack. 256 it is.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Join the Rodeo discussion:
http://rodeoapps.com/rodeo-discuss-among-yourselves

On Jun 8, 2010, at 3:42 PM, Mark Wieder <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jerry-
>
> Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 1:34:52 PM, you wrote:
>
>> people involved (253 counting the three of us).
>
> Dude-
>
> You need three more people to make it an even number. Although 253 is
> the product of two primes, which is also kind of cool.
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
> [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Andre Garzia-3
In reply to this post by Sumner, Walton
Walt,

You're mixing things. On-Rev which is just a service provider for RevServer
does not deal with the presentatation (HTML, CSS, JS) part of web
applications, this is left to the programmer. RevServer is a server side
engine not unlike php. It doesn't do the presentation layer but the back end
layer behind that.

As far as I know, Safari Mobile already supports multitouch. Developers
seldon make use of it though. I think that Safari sends touch events for the
different fingers.


 Andre

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Sumner, Walt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry if this has been discussed and I missed it, but it looks like Firefox
> 4 (or 3.7, or earlier) hopes to deliver HTML5 and multitouch, as well as the
> local data storage. Do we know if On-Rev is on track to host multitouch
> browser interfaces? If so, I would suddenly have a compelling reason to get
> facile with On-Rev and HTML5.
>
> I would guess that the iOS version of Safari will eventually support
> multitouch?
>
> This video purports to show a Firefox browser window supporting multitouch
> painting:
> http://www.labnol.org/internet/firefox-logo-drawn-using-firefox/10579/
>
> Walton Sumner
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>



--
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Thomas McGrath III-3
In reply to this post by Sumner, Walton
Walt,

The iOS version of Safari already supports multitouch and has for a while now.


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
http://lazyriver.on-rev.com
[hidden email]

I Can Speak - Communication for the rest of us...
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I Can Speak on the iPad Store
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/i-can-speak/id364733279?mt=8

On Jun 8, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Sumner, Walt wrote:

> Sorry if this has been discussed and I missed it, but it looks like Firefox 4 (or 3.7, or earlier) hopes to deliver HTML5 and multitouch, as well as the local data storage. Do we know if On-Rev is on track to host multitouch browser interfaces? If so, I would suddenly have a compelling reason to get facile with On-Rev and HTML5.
>
> I would guess that the iOS version of Safari will eventually support multitouch?
>
> This video purports to show a Firefox browser window supporting multitouch painting:
> http://www.labnol.org/internet/firefox-logo-drawn-using-firefox/10579/
>
> Walton Sumner
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Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev & revServer

Mike Bonner
In reply to this post by Robert Mann
Yep, since Jerry's initial answer hadn't exactly covered what was
being, I just posted the relevant section for him. So I guess I was
pointing out the point of your pointing. . *grin*

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Robert Mann <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Yes indeed, Mike, i understand jerry's answer as far as server side accounts
> are concerned.
>
> I was just pointing out that in the context of "html5 local storage", if and
> when a web app uses that storage, then there are issues of security.
>
> I'm working on an eDemocracy site & app. i'll try hard to make it as secure
> as possible in order not to allow anybody to gather information about what
> somebody else think.
>
> What troubles me is at the same time to see a big move towards mobile
> advertisement AND the launching of HTML5 local storage which unlike cookies
> (which have caused trouble in the minds!) can have persistent datas, and
> much more datas.
>
> So I beleive it could be a good thing to be very clear on this data policy
> with users, for a change!
>
> Actually I do have a question on this HTML5 specifs : how can the user
> monitor datas? Has he got the right to go and inspect? or is it context
> dependant, e.i only a javascript program imbedded in a page of the said
> domain could get to the datas? If anybody has a clue, thanks!
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/WWDC-Keynote-HTML5-wide-open-for-On-Rev-revServer-tp2246637p2247953.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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