[YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

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[YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Mike Kerner
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-open-sources-its-ios-toolkit-for-building-windows-10-apps/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61

--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Monte Goulding

> On 8 Aug 2015, at 1:09 am, Mike Kerner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-open-sources-its-ios-toolkit-for-building-windows-10-apps/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61 <http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-open-sources-its-ios-toolkit-for-building-windows-10-apps/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61>

This may be interesting for cross compiling some of my externals. It looks like they plan to support MapKit and iAd at least. It seems it won’t be long before without a great deal of trouble you can implement a native app for your most critical platform and then build it for the others using these bridges. I’m not sure if Apple will bother building bridges in the other direction though… probably a bit worrying for LiveCode as it leaves its main USP to be a verbose language…

The main thing I’m hoping is someone implements Xcode support for the bridge so we can cross compile for Windows from Xcode like Cocotron.

Cheers

Monte

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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Richard Gaskin
Monte Goulding wrote:

 > ...probably a bit worrying for LiveCode as it leaves its main USP
 > to be a verbose language…

Verbose?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Monte Goulding

> On 10 Aug 2015, at 9:59 am, Richard Gaskin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Monte Goulding wrote:
>
> > ...probably a bit worrying for LiveCode as it leaves its main USP
> > to be a verbose language…
>
> Verbose?

Verbose for a programming language at least


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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Richard Gaskin
Monte Goulding wrote:

>> On 10 Aug 2015, at 9:59 am, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> Monte Goulding wrote:
>>
>> > ...probably a bit worrying for LiveCode as it leaves its main USP
>> > to be a verbose language…
>>
>> Verbose?
>
> Verbose for a programming language at least

Yeah, I used to hear that from C and Assembler programmers back in the
'90s who hadn't used an xTalk but tried to size it up by looking at a
few single statements.

And indeed, single statements are often longer in LiveCode.

But when we step back to look at a more complete measure of verbosity --
how much typing to get the same functionality -- LiveCode often
outshines many other great languages.

For example, here's a Java snippet I dug up that adds two numbers from a
text file:

    import java.util.Scanner;
    import java.io.*;
    public class MyClass {
       public static void main(String[] args) throws IOException {
           Scanner s = new Scanner(new File("sample.txt"));
           int tmp1 = s.nextInt();
           int tmp2 = s.nextInt();
           System.out.println(tmp1 + tmp2);
       }
    }


And of course in LiveCode:

    get url ("file:sample.txt")
    put word 1 of it + word 2 of it


The brevity we enjoy with a LiveCode engine that lets us do so much with
so few lines becomes even more pronounced once we need to handle GUI
events, coerce types, manage memory allocations, and many other modern
app tasks.

There are many great languages, and for all their respective strengths
none of them are best at everything.  Not even LiveCode.  But where
LiveCode shines it shines brightly.


PS: Should I find myself spending the rest of my years never having to
ever again type things like this I can't say I expect to miss it on my
deathbed:

    public static void main(String args[])

That sort of common Java declaration is stuff LiveCode already does for
us by default, no typing required at all.

Verbose?

;)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
  ____________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]        http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Monte Goulding
> But when we step back to look at a more complete measure of verbosity -- how much typing to get the same functionality -- LiveCode often outshines many other great languages.

And here was I saying it was a feature… ;-)
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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Richard Gaskin
Monte Goulding wrote:

 >> But when we step back to look at a more complete measure of
 >> verbosity -- how much typing to get the same functionality
 >> -- LiveCode often outshines many other great languages.
 >
 > And here was I saying it was a feature… ;-)

Features-per-kloc's not a bad metric....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
  ____________________________________________________________
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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Monte Goulding

> On 10 Aug 2015, at 3:22 pm, Richard Gaskin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Features-per-kloc's not a bad metric….

Doesn’t every LiveCode project start at 0/500000 ?

Just being cheeky. You know I love LC ;-)

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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Mike Kerner
Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with so
many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of an
issue.  The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages.

Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for
building cross-platform apps.  Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and
exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same.

--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Roger Eller
Although LC calls itself cross-platform, I despise the fact that commands
in the dictionary, particularly for mobile, have quirks that make it a
little different for Android than iOS.  If it wants to call itself
cross-platform, a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the
same across all supported platforms.  I would also be more likely to invest
more into externals if they didn't focus on a single preferred OS rather
than looking at the market potential for LC devs to build x-plat apps.  LC
tools should all be required to be x-plat - period. /just one opinion.

~Roger

On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Mike Kerner <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with so
> many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of an
> issue.  The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages.
>
> Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for
> building cross-platform apps.  Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and
> exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same.
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Pierre Sahores-2
Hi Roger,

It’s simply no way to achieve 100% of cross platform ability as long as some features available, say, on the native Xcode’s iOS platform are not on the native Android SDK/NDK/JNI side and vice-versa ! Instead of complaining about this fact and, again, instead of limiting the cross platform ability of LiveCode to the less commun denominator of the different platforms LC covers, Edinburgh and external providers (Monte, …) extends it, each time it can be reliable and useful with special targeted features on one or an other platform and, gracefully, it’s, IMHO, the most we can get for staying as productive as possible from all of these beloved LC cookers ;D

Best,

Pierre
--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
www.sahores-conseil.com

> Le 10 août 2015 à 16:26, Roger Eller <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> Although LC calls itself cross-platform, I despise the fact that commands
> in the dictionary, particularly for mobile, have quirks that make it a
> little different for Android than iOS.  If it wants to call itself
> cross-platform, a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the
> same across all supported platforms.  I would also be more likely to invest
> more into externals if they didn't focus on a single preferred OS rather
> than looking at the market potential for LC devs to build x-plat apps.  LC
> tools should all be required to be x-plat - period. /just one opinion.
>
> ~Roger
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Mike Kerner <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with so
>> many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of an
>> issue.  The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages.
>>
>> Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for
>> building cross-platform apps.  Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and
>> exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same.
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>   and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Mike Kerner
+1 Roger, +1 Pierre.

On the first one, Roger, I completely agree, MORE SEAMLESS cross-platform,
more attention to Android (and Win 10, etc.) is important, even if it's
only because it says to the rest of the world "Cross-platform for realises".
I also agree with Pierre on where the investment goes.  We're doing most of
our work, right now, on iOS, so that's mostly what I'm paying folks to
extend.  I would bet that Monte is responding to demand, because if I said
"Hey, Monte, I want blah, blah, blah for Android", I would get it.  Right
now it's "Hey, I want blah, blah, blah for iOS", so, <harp strum/>, I get
blah, blah, blah for iOS.

On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Pierre Sahores <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Roger,
>
> It’s simply no way to achieve 100% of cross platform ability as long as
> some features available, say, on the native Xcode’s iOS platform are not on
> the native Android SDK/NDK/JNI side and vice-versa ! Instead of complaining
> about this fact and, again, instead of limiting the cross platform ability
> of LiveCode to the less commun denominator of the different platforms LC
> covers, Edinburgh and external providers (Monte, …) extends it, each time
> it can be reliable and useful with special targeted features on one or an
> other platform and, gracefully, it’s, IMHO, the most we can get for staying
> as productive as possible from all of these beloved LC cookers ;D
>
> Best,
>
> Pierre
> --
> Pierre Sahores
> mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
> www.sahores-conseil.com
>
> > Le 10 août 2015 à 16:26, Roger Eller <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
> >
> > Although LC calls itself cross-platform, I despise the fact that commands
> > in the dictionary, particularly for mobile, have quirks that make it a
> > little different for Android than iOS.  If it wants to call itself
> > cross-platform, a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the
> > same across all supported platforms.  I would also be more likely to
> invest
> > more into externals if they didn't focus on a single preferred OS rather
> > than looking at the market potential for LC devs to build x-plat apps.
> LC
> > tools should all be required to be x-plat - period. /just one opinion.
> >
> > ~Roger
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Mike Kerner <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with
> so
> >> many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of an
> >> issue.  The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages.
> >>
> >> Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for
> >> building cross-platform apps.  Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and
> >> exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same.
> >>
> >> --
> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >>   and did a little diving.
> >> And God said, "This is good."
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
_______________________________________________
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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Roger Eller
In reply to this post by Pierre Sahores-2
It is also irritating when the assumption is always that so many features
are unavailable to the Android platform, and bright shiny iOS has
everything you could ever dream of.  I call BS on that as all major apps
out there work exactly the same on both platforms.  I have never read that
"Netflix can't play movies because Google didn't provide an easy Android
SDK for AV to it's developers."


On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Pierre Sahores <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Roger,
>
> It’s simply no way to achieve 100% of cross platform ability as long as
> some features available, say, on the native Xcode’s iOS platform are not on
> the native Android SDK/NDK/JNI side and vice-versa ! Instead of complaining
> about this fact and, again, instead of limiting the cross platform ability
> of LiveCode to the less commun denominator of the different platforms LC
> covers, Edinburgh and external providers (Monte, …) extends it, each time
> it can be reliable and useful with special targeted features on one or an
> other platform and, gracefully, it’s, IMHO, the most we can get for staying
> as productive as possible from all of these beloved LC cookers ;D
>
> Best,
>
> Pierre
> --
> Pierre Sahores
> mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
> www.sahores-conseil.com
>
> > Le 10 août 2015 à 16:26, Roger Eller <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
> >
> > Although LC calls itself cross-platform, I despise the fact that commands
> > in the dictionary, particularly for mobile, have quirks that make it a
> > little different for Android than iOS.  If it wants to call itself
> > cross-platform, a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the
> > same across all supported platforms.  I would also be more likely to
> invest
> > more into externals if they didn't focus on a single preferred OS rather
> > than looking at the market potential for LC devs to build x-plat apps.
> LC
> > tools should all be required to be x-plat - period. /just one opinion.
> >
> > ~Roger
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Mike Kerner <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with
> so
> >> many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of an
> >> issue.  The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages.
> >>
> >> Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for
> >> building cross-platform apps.  Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and
> >> exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same.
> >>
> >> --
> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >>   and did a little diving.
> >> And God said, "This is good."
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Roger Eller
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner
I have to say this, because I believe ti to be true.  LiveCode developers
are part of the problem.  I think the majority of you have iOS devices
because it is what you LIKE, not because it represents what the majority or
even half of the population HAVE.  Inexpensive Android devices are getting
better and better specs all the time, and lots of people buy them.  THEY
should be our focus, not just our favorites.


On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Mike Kerner <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> +1 Roger, +1 Pierre.
>
> On the first one, Roger, I completely agree, MORE SEAMLESS cross-platform,
> more attention to Android (and Win 10, etc.) is important, even if it's
> only because it says to the rest of the world "Cross-platform for
> realises".
> I also agree with Pierre on where the investment goes.  We're doing most of
> our work, right now, on iOS, so that's mostly what I'm paying folks to
> extend.  I would bet that Monte is responding to demand, because if I said
> "Hey, Monte, I want blah, blah, blah for Android", I would get it.  Right
> now it's "Hey, I want blah, blah, blah for iOS", so, <harp strum/>, I get
> blah, blah, blah for iOS.
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Pierre Sahores <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Roger,
> >
> > It’s simply no way to achieve 100% of cross platform ability as long as
> > some features available, say, on the native Xcode’s iOS platform are not
> on
> > the native Android SDK/NDK/JNI side and vice-versa ! Instead of
> complaining
> > about this fact and, again, instead of limiting the cross platform
> ability
> > of LiveCode to the less commun denominator of the different platforms LC
> > covers, Edinburgh and external providers (Monte, …) extends it, each time
> > it can be reliable and useful with special targeted features on one or an
> > other platform and, gracefully, it’s, IMHO, the most we can get for
> staying
> > as productive as possible from all of these beloved LC cookers ;D
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Pierre
> > --
> > Pierre Sahores
> > mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
> > www.sahores-conseil.com
> >
> > > Le 10 août 2015 à 16:26, Roger Eller <[hidden email]> a
> > écrit :
> > >
> > > Although LC calls itself cross-platform, I despise the fact that
> commands
> > > in the dictionary, particularly for mobile, have quirks that make it a
> > > little different for Android than iOS.  If it wants to call itself
> > > cross-platform, a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly
> the
> > > same across all supported platforms.  I would also be more likely to
> > invest
> > > more into externals if they didn't focus on a single preferred OS
> rather
> > > than looking at the market potential for LC devs to build x-plat apps.
> > LC
> > > tools should all be required to be x-plat - period. /just one opinion.
> > >
> > > ~Roger
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Mike Kerner <
> [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with
> > so
> > >> many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of
> an
> > >> issue.  The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages.
> > >>
> > >> Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for
> > >> building cross-platform apps.  Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and
> > >> exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> > >>   and did a little diving.
> > >> And God said, "This is good."
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Roger Eller
Roger Eller wrote:

> ...a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the
> same across all supported platforms.

Is that how it works in Microsoft Visual Studio?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
  ____________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]        http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Roger Eller
Roger Eller wrote:
> I have to say this, because I believe ti to be true.  LiveCode developers
> are part of the problem.  I think the majority of you have iOS devices
> because it is what you LIKE, not because it represents what the majority or
> even half of the population HAVE.  Inexpensive Android devices are getting
> better and better specs all the time, and lots of people buy them.  THEY
> should be our focus, not just our favorites.

I would agree that the whole process does seem rather Apple-centric at
times, but did you see the Release Notes for 7.1dp1?  The LC engine now
supports Android intents -- see the new mobileLaunchData function.

This is also a good example of how different OS APIs can make a LiveCode
feature complicated when the team attempts to make it the same on all
platforms:  iOS doesn't have intents, using Actions instead.  Android
intents are relatively simple to code for and work very similarly to url
schemes, so it's been pretty straightforward for the team to add that.
  They do indeed intend to also action Actions support for iOS, but like
so many Cocoa things it's not nearly as simple, and given the full range
of priorities on their plate won't be in v7.1.

Complete feature parity sounds simple, but once you dive into the
implementation details it's clear that OSes just don't often work the
same, requiring tough decisions about what gets delivered now and what
gets delivered later.

But at least those of us deploying to the 80% using Android finally have
a feature that isn't all about Apple.  And a very useful one at that.

And in the meantime, anyone in a position to add Actions support to the
engine sooner than the core team can is welcome to submit the pull request.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
  ____________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]        http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Roger Eller
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
I wouldn't know.  Why?  Because I chose LiveCode (actually MetaCard)
because my code could be written only once, and it worked the same on Mac,
Win, and Irix at that time.  Sure there were always shell calls once in a
while, but overall, the original designers of the language put in some real
effort to make it that way, and I truly appreciate all the work that went
into making it so seamless.


On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Richard Gaskin <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> Roger Eller wrote:
>
> ...a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the
>> same across all supported platforms.
>>
>
> Is that how it works in Microsoft Visual Studio?
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
>  ____________________________________________________________
>  [hidden email]        http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Mark Talluto

> On Aug 10, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Roger Eller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I wouldn't know.  Why?  Because I chose LiveCode (actually MetaCard)
> because my code could be written only once, and it worked the same on Mac,
> Win, and Irix at that time.  Sure there were always shell calls once in a
> while, but overall, the original designers of the language put in some real
> effort to make it that way, and I truly appreciate all the work that went
> into making it so seamless.

I appreciate your desire for a fully unified experience. Keep in mind, technology has changed a lot since MetaCard. And, features have improve and become more complex since MetaCard. It is one thing to write data to a file using a unified method for all platforms. It is another to address mobile specific features between each OS with varying levels of sophistication. Even Apple uses a different/modified OS between all its hardware line.

Where equality breaks in LiveCode, it seems reasonable to me. It looks like this will only continue until the various OS and hardware manufactures get together and unify what is available on each system. Desktops will be the last ones to get GPS and accelerometer support. Not holding my breath on that.


Best regards,

Mark Talluto
canelasoftware.com

CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io




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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Richmond Mathewson-2
In reply to this post by Roger Eller
On 10/08/15 20:00, Roger Eller wrote:
> I wouldn't know.  Why?  Because I chose LiveCode (actually MetaCard)
> because my code could be written only once, and it worked the same on Mac,
> Win, and Irix at that time.  Sure there were always shell calls once in a
> while, but overall, the original designers of the language put in some real
> effort to make it that way, and I truly appreciate all the work that went
> into making it so seamless.

Indeed!

I got involved with LiveCode when I was working at the University of St.
Andrews
and needed to write a series of programs for Chinese, Japanese and
Korean students get their heads
around the 'joys' of English phonetics that would work, with Quicktime,
on both Windows and Macintosh 9 & 10.

I later developed a software package ("Listen Hear") for school kids to
learn about different types of music,
that could run on both Macs and Windows systems.

There didn't really seem anything else that could do that without a
near-vertical learning curve at the time.

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Richard Gaskin <[hidden email]
>> wrote:
>> Roger Eller wrote:
>>
>> ...a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the
>>> same across all supported platforms.
>>>
>> Is that how it works in Microsoft Visual Studio?

Wow! that made me laugh because right behind me, on the bed, there
reclines an incredibly attractive . . . book
entitled "Practical Visual Basic 6" by Reselman, Pruchniak, Peasley and
Smith, which I, in a fit of foolishness spent 22 pounds sterling
on when I was "studying" at the "University" of Abertay.

For some unknown reason, my cats seem to like the book and often sleep
on top of it - quite appropriate really.

I am very glad I studied Visual Basic 6. Not because Visual Basic 6 is
any good, frankly. Because every exercise Mrs Lobster (ok, ok, her real
name was Mrs Crab) gave us was a complete pain in the bum to put
together and get working in VB6, so at the end of every practical session
I would go home and do the same exercise in LiveCode (or Runtime
Revolution as it then was) in about 10% of the time, and much more
easily. Considering I had been using LiveCode for about 18 months at
that stage, and had never had any classes in it (well, admittedly,
Mrs Lobster was incompetent - I remembered things from my BASIC classes
from about 30 years before, when I was 13/14 - that she
kept getting wrong), it just served to show me what a "Clunk, Clunk,
Clunk" VB6 was.

AND, Visual Basic is a single-platform language (and it runs on my
least-favourite platform).

>>
>> --
>>   Richard Gaskin
>>  

Richmond.

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Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10

Richmond Mathewson-2
In reply to this post by Mark Talluto
On 10/08/15 20:13, Mark Talluto wrote:

>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Roger Eller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I wouldn't know.  Why?  Because I chose LiveCode (actually MetaCard)
>> because my code could be written only once, and it worked the same on Mac,
>> Win, and Irix at that time.  Sure there were always shell calls once in a
>> while, but overall, the original designers of the language put in some real
>> effort to make it that way, and I truly appreciate all the work that went
>> into making it so seamless.
> I appreciate your desire for a fully unified experience. Keep in mind, technology has changed a lot since MetaCard. And, features have improve and become more complex since MetaCard. It is one thing to write data to a file using a unified method for all platforms. It is another to address mobile specific features between each OS with varying levels of sophistication. Even Apple uses a different/modified OS between all its hardware line.
>
> Where equality breaks in LiveCode, it seems reasonable to me. It looks like this will only continue until the various OS and hardware manufactures get together and unify what is available on each system. Desktops will be the last ones to get GPS and accelerometer support. Not holding my breath on that.

Quite frankly, as far as I can see, expecting 100% cross-platform
portability is expecting too much.

The fact that LiveCode manages about 90% is amazing: especially when one
considers that there are precious few
others that can offer that sort of level of cross-platform stuff.

Richmond.

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