dBase or Paradox interface

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dBase or Paradox interface

Scott Kane-3
Hi all,

It's great to be here posting as an owner
of Revolution License, rather than an evaluator.  :-)

Just a quick question - Rev comes with some cool
options for databases.  I have some legacy app's using
dBase IV and Paradox.  I was wondering if there was
something available in Rev that would be able to read
these for conversion?

Scott Kane


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Re: dBase or Paradox interface

Ruslan Zasukhin
On 8/19/05 9:26 PM, "Scott Kane" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> It's great to be here posting as an owner
> of Revolution License, rather than an evaluator.  :-)
>
> Just a quick question - Rev comes with some cool
> options for databases.  I have some legacy app's using
> dBase IV and Paradox.  I was wondering if there was
> something available in Rev that would be able to read
> these for conversion?

Hi Scott,

If you will decide to use Valentina as database for your app,
Then you can convert any db that have ODBC driver into Valentina using
Valentina Studio application.

--
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]


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Re: dBase or Paradox interface

Stephen Barncard
In reply to this post by Scott Kane-3
If you can find an old machine to run dBase IV and Paradox or if they
will run in Classic just export the databases to CSV or tab delimited
and you can use anything....including MYSQL and sqlLITE, etc.

>Hi all,
>
>It's great to be here posting as an owner
>of Revolution License, rather than an evaluator.  :-)
>
>Just a quick question - Rev comes with some cool
>options for databases.  I have some legacy app's using
>dBase IV and Paradox.  I was wondering if there was
>something available in Rev that would be able to read
>these for conversion?
>
Scott Kane
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RE: dBase or Paradox interface

Scott Kane-3
In reply to this post by Ruslan Zasukhin

> If you will decide to use Valentina as database for your app,
> Then you can convert any db that have ODBC driver into
> Valentina using Valentina Studio application.

Thanks Ruslen!  :-)

Scott


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RE: dBase or Paradox interface

Scott Kane-3
In reply to this post by Stephen Barncard
> If you can find an old machine to run dBase IV and Paradox or if they
> will run in Classic just export the databases to CSV or tab delimited
> and you can use anything....including MYSQL and sqlLITE, etc.

They are on a Intel box - but no matter your
suggestion would work fine anyway.  Can't
believe I didn't think of it!
Scott


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ISAM

Scott Kane-3
In reply to this post by Scott Kane-3
Hi,

Somone told be a while back aout a Revolution
tool that was an ISAM style table system.  I've
mamanged to lose the link...

Apart from saving cards (which is on my list)
are there any other options for single user
acces.  MYAQL etc are to much for my users to
deal with.  Valentino looks good but is out of
my price range at the moment...

Sciott


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Re: ISAM

Richard Gaskin
Scott Kane wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Somone told be a while back aout a Revolution
> tool that was an ISAM style table system.  I've
> mamanged to lose the link...
>
> Apart from saving cards (which is on my list)
> are there any other options for single user
> acces.  MYAQL etc are to much for my users to
> deal with.  Valentino looks good but is out of
> my price range at the moment...

Depending on your indexing needs, if your data set is small enough to be
used in RAM you might consider storing your data in custom properties.

Random access of properties through array notation is lightning fast,
and sequential access is suitable.  Surprisingly, sequential access of a
simple line-delimited list is about 15-20% faster, and may also provide
a reasonable solution for tables.

I have a system I'm building which uses a mix of each, often with tab-
and line-delimited tables stored in custom properties.  It's reasonably
fast (does a 3-criteria search at the rate of about 16k records per
second) and since it's just native Transcript my client has no per-user
seat fee. :)

For more on using custom props in stack files for storage:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-July/006149.html>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
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RE: ISAM

Scott Kane-3
Hi Richard,

> Depending on your indexing needs, if your data set is small
> enough to be
> used in RAM you might consider storing your data in custom properties.

They are pretty light actually.Just a lot of tables.
 
> Random access of properties through array notation is lightning fast,
> and sequential access is suitable.  Surprisingly, sequential
> access of a
> simple line-delimited list is about 15-20% faster, and may
> also provide
> a reasonable solution for tables.

Cany chance of some demo code?  I'm still feeling my
way in Rev,  You can post off list if you want to:
[hidden email]

> I have a system I'm building which uses a mix of each, often
> with tab-  and line-delimited tables stored in custom properties.  It's
> reasonably fast (does a 3-criteria search at the rate of about 16k records
per
> second) and since it's just native Transcript my client has
> no per-user > seat fee. :)

I'd prbably need a binary format for that as I
have notes and photo's going in...

Thanks for taking the time to answer,

Scott


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Re: ISAM

Richard Gaskin
Scott Kane wrote:
>>Random access of properties through array notation is lightning fast,
>>and sequential access is suitable.  Surprisingly, sequential
>>access of a
>>simple line-delimited list is about 15-20% faster, and may
>>also provide
>>a reasonable solution for tables.
>
> Cany chance of some demo code?  I'm still feeling my
> way in Rev

Depends on what you want to do.  Remember that Transcript supports what
we call chunk expressions, so you can refer to delimited items as
"items" and lines as "lines":

  set the itemDelimiter to tab
  get item 4 of line 3 of tMyData

>
>>I have a system I'm building which uses a mix of each, often
>>with tab-  and line-delimited tables stored in custom properties.  It's
>>reasonably fast (does a 3-criteria search at the rate of about 16k records
>
> per
>
>>second) and since it's just native Transcript my client has
>>no per-user > seat fee. :)
>
>
> I'd prbably need a binary format for that as I
> have notes and photo's going in...

Custom properties can store binary data.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
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Re: ISAM

Dan Shafer
In reply to this post by Scott Kane-3
In a single-user application where Valentina is out of price range,  
you should check out altSQLite from Altuit Software:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altSQLiteCover/default.htm

Fast, easy to use, well documented and affordable.


On Aug 19, 2005, at 1:35 PM, Scott Kane wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Somone told be a while back aout a Revolution
> tool that was an ISAM style table system.  I've
> mamanged to lose the link...
>
> Apart from saving cards (which is on my list)
> are there any other options for single user
> acces.  MYAQL etc are to much for my users to
> deal with.  Valentino looks good but is out of
> my price range at the moment...
>
> Sciott
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.revolutionpros.com, Click "My Stuff"



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RE: ISAM

Scott Kane-3
> In a single-user application where Valentina is out of price range,  
> you should check out altSQLite from Altuit Software:

Lools very cool, but sadly I'm on a zero budget
(I'm on a disability pension and trying to program
my way off it).

There was a ISAM library (by Chipp ???) that looked
good but I couldn't get all the necessary pieces
from the website.  It was open source but the modules
available on the download site had broken links.

Anybody know where I can find that again - and perhaps
the authors details?

If this isn't possible then does anybody have a suggestion
for installing MySQL or similar transparently so that the
user doesn't have to deal with creating tables, passowrds etc
directly?

Thanks
Scott
(still feelling his way in Rev but enjoying every minute of it)


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Re: ISAM

Ruslan Zasukhin
On 8/20/05 10:00 AM, "Scott Kane" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> In a single-user application where Valentina is out of price range,
>> you should check out altSQLite from Altuit Software:
>
> Lools very cool, but sadly I'm on a zero budget
> (I'm on a disability pension and trying to program
> my way off it).
>
> There was a ISAM library (by Chipp ???) that looked
> good but I couldn't get all the necessary pieces
> from the website.  It was open source but the modules
> available on the download site had broken links.
>
> Anybody know where I can find that again - and perhaps
> the authors details?
>
> If this isn't possible then does anybody have a suggestion
> for installing MySQL or similar transparently so that the
> user doesn't have to deal with creating tables, passowrds etc
> directly?

Hi Scott,

If you going develop app which you will distribute in many copies to
clients, then you must pay for mySQL.

A lots of people think that mySQL is free.
This is not true in a lots of cases. Read this:

    http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/commercial-license.html

MySQL want that you pay them $400 for EACH copy of server.


--
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]


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RE: ISAM

Scott Kane-3


> If you going develop app which you will distribute in many
> copies to clients, then you must pay for mySQL.
>
> A lots of people think that mySQL is free.
> This is not true in a lots of cases. Read this:

Ouch!  I didn't realize that!  I wonder how many
ISP's (or web hosts rather) realize or actually
follow this reqirement.  Have to look at another
option now.  If I could just find that ISAM library
(open source) for Rev I'd be set.

Scott


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RE: ISAM

Scott Kane-3

> option now.  If I could just find that ISAM library
> (open source) for Rev I'd be set.

OK.  Found it.  Serendipidy.  I'm not sure
about it at all yet.  It seems a rather bitsy.

I think I'll look at saving stacks containing
cards to an external file instead.

Thanks for your help people.

Scott


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Re: ISAM

Ruslan Zasukhin
In reply to this post by Scott Kane-3
On 8/20/05 10:26 AM, "Scott Kane" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> If you going develop app which you will distribute in many
>> copies to clients, then you must pay for mySQL.
>>
>> A lots of people think that mySQL is free.
>> This is not true in a lots of cases. Read this:
>
> Ouch!  I didn't realize that!  I wonder how many
> ISP's (or web hosts rather) realize or actually
> follow this reqirement.

MySQL is FREE for ISP 100%

But for Application developers which distribute compiled apps NO.

> Have to look at another
> option now.  If I could just find that ISAM library
> (open source) for Rev I'd be set.

--
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]


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Re: ISAM

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Scott Kane-3
Scott Kane wrote:
> I think I'll look at saving stacks containing
> cards to an external file instead.

For very small data sets it's hard to beat the convenience of using
cards.  But for anything above a few thousand records it can be cumbersome.

As with HyperCard, the inventor of this engine (Scott Raney) reminds us
that the stack structure is not optimized for use as a database.  Dr.
Raney suggests that you'll find serious performance degredation after
about 5,000 records, and in my experience I find that to be true.

So if you need fewer than a couple thousand records then using cards may
be a great option. But if you'll need more it may be useful to consider
lists or custom properties.

To help you get an idea of the performance differences between these, I
threw together a script that creates 5,000 records in each format,
copied below. To run it:

1. Make a new stack
2. Make some fields (I used 7), group them,
    and turn on the group's backgroundBehavior
3. Paste the script below into a field

Here are the results (1GHz PowerBook, OS X 10.4, 768MB RAM):

Cards: 50860ms    List: 168ms    Props: 236ms

Saving the data shows a similar disparity of performance: stacks with
large numbers of cards take an increasingly long time to save as the
number of cards grows, disproportionate to the actual number of cards
(not quite geometric, but certainly not linear).  But saving a stack
file with one card and thousands of properties is very fast.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


--------------------------------------------------------

on mouseUp
   put 5000 into n
   --
   -- Cards:
   lock messages
   lock screen
   put the millisecs into t
   repeat n
     create cd
     repeat with i = 1 to the number of flds
       put "dsgsdtg sdtg dwg dsg sdgsdg" into fld i
     end repeat
   end repeat
   put the millisecs - t into t1
   --
   -- List:
   global gData
   put empty into gData
   put the millisecs into t
   repeat n
     put empty into tRecord
     repeat  the number of flds
       put "dsgsdtg sdtg dwg dsg sdgsdg" &tab after tRecord
     end repeat
     put tRecord &cr after gData
   end repeat
   delete last char of gData
   put the millisecs - t into t2
   --
   -- Props:
   set the customproperties of this stack to empty
   put the millisecs into t
   repeat with i = 1 to n
     put empty into tRecord
     repeat the number of flds
       put "dsgsdtg sdtg dwg dsg sdgsdg" &tab after tRecord
     end repeat
     set the uMyData[i] of this stack to tRecord
   end repeat
   put the millisecs - t into t3
   --
   put "Cards: "& t1 &"ms    List: "&t2&"ms    Props: "& t3 &"ms"
end mouseUp

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Re: ISAM

Dan Shafer
In reply to this post by Ruslan Zasukhin
A minor (and probably unimportant in the contex) clarification:

MySQL charges for distribution of the *server*. If you provide an app  
as, e.g., an ASP that runs on a MySQL server on a hosting service  
where the end user is only *using* that database and never installing  
the server, usage is free. But if the end user needs a MySQL database  
on his or her machine, then the charge kicks in.

Scott, I've heard good things about serendipity and the author is a  
frequent contributor here. Certainly worth a look.

On Aug 20, 2005, at 1:19 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:

> MySQL is FREE for ISP 100%
>
> But for Application developers which distribute compiled apps NO.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.revolutionpros.com, Click "My Stuff"



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Re: ISAM

Stephen Barncard
In reply to this post by Ruslan Zasukhin
  If your product is on the net anyway... Create as many MySQL
databases you need from a full service web host such as Dreamhost for
$10/month. No maintenance, no fees, dead simple management.


>On 8/20/05 10:26 AM, "Scott Kane" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>>  If you going develop app which you will distribute in many
>>>  copies to clients, then you must pay for mySQL.
>>>
>>>  A lots of people think that mySQL is free.
>>>  This is not true in a lots of cases. Read this:
>>
>>  Ouch!  I didn't realize that!  I wonder how many
>>  ISP's (or web hosts rather) realize or actually
>>  follow this reqirement.
>
>MySQL is FREE for ISP 100%
>
>But for Application developers which distribute compiled apps NO.
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RE: ISAM

Scott Kane-3
>   If your product is on the net anyway... Create as many MySQL
> databases you need from a full service web host such as Dreamhost for
> $10/month. No maintenance, no fees, dead simple management.

Thanks for the reply, but it's a desktop application.
I need an ISAM methodology to pull it off cleanly.   Man -
wish I could acees just dBase or Pardox. <g>

Scott


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RE: ISAM

Scott Kane-3
In reply to this post by Dan Shafer
Hi Don,


> A minor (and probably unimportant in the contex) clarification:
>
> MySQL charges for distribution of the *server*. If you
> provide an app  
> as, e.g., an ASP that runs on a MySQL server on a hosting service  
> where the end user is only *using* that database and never
> installing  
> the server, usage is free. But if the end user needs a MySQL
> database  
> on his or her machine, then the charge kicks in.

Right.  MYSQL isn't a god choice for the teck level of my
users anyway,

> Scott, I've heard good things about serendipity and the author is a  
> frequent contributor here. Certainly worth a look.

So have I.  But sadly the source stacks and routines are
broken (links I should say) on the developers website.
Is this a living product - or abandonware?  I joined the
Google mail list and have had no replies.  I was over the
moon at the potential for this project (Serendipity), but
I can't test it out without the complete links to download
the various pieces.  :-(

Scott


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