httpd library and missed opportunity.

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httpd library and missed opportunity.

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
[ started a new thread, so I can't rant without tainting the other thread ]

I started out on the 'find a rev/livecode solution for a simple HTTP
server" for one small reason :

    the LC 9.0 Dictionary Guide, under "HTML5 Deployment" says

> Testing your HTML5 app with a local web server
> Some browsers, such as Google Chrome, do not permit pages to download
> resources from file:// URLs. You won't be able to test your
> application in these browsers unless you run a local HTTP server.
>
> A quick and easy way to run a simple local HTTP server is to use
> Python. Open a terminal window, change directory to your standalone's
> directory, and run:
>
> python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080
> This will let you access your standalone by opening your web browser
> and visiting http://localhost:8080.
>
What ?  IMO, this is just plain "wrong".

This is like going into the BMW dealership and being told "Yeah, you'll
love the way the new Z4 drives. Just get into this Mercedes sports car
here and we'll take you over to the racetrack to watch someone else
drive one."

Why are we suggesting that users use another (OK, a "competing")
scripting language to test HTML5 deployment ?

Livecode is perfectly able to run a simple HTTP server. It is perfectly
possible and not too hard to write a basic one. In fact, we now even
have an included library that makes it trivial to write that very basic
server.

Why didn't we (i.e. Livecode - a careful use of the word  "we") just
package up that simple server, and then include that, with suitable
instructions.

That would have avoided any implication that LC is any less capable than
other scripting languages, and avoided reminding anyone that LC doesn't
(yet) come packaged with all the libraries and therefore utilities that
you could hope for.


So - I'm hoping to write a basic version (including my "get around the
same-domain limitation") and get it, or something like it, included in
the LC distribution, so that the documentation has no need to recommend
another language.

<end of rant - thanks for listening :-)>

Alex.



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Re: httpd library and missed opportunity.

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
My first reaction was: I bet LC didn't have enough spare time and people.

My second reaction was: Well, it's open source, after all.

My third reaction was: Good for you, Alex! Bravo!


On 8/1/17 4:16 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

> [ started a new thread, so I can't rant without tainting the other thread ]
>
> I started out on the 'find a rev/livecode solution for a simple HTTP
> server" for one small reason :
>
>     the LC 9.0 Dictionary Guide, under "HTML5 Deployment" says
>
>> Testing your HTML5 app with a local web server
>> Some browsers, such as Google Chrome, do not permit pages to download
>> resources from file:// URLs. You won't be able to test your
>> application in these browsers unless you run a local HTTP server.
>>
>> A quick and easy way to run a simple local HTTP server is to use
>> Python. Open a terminal window, change directory to your standalone's
>> directory, and run:
>>
>> python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080
>> This will let you access your standalone by opening your web browser
>> and visiting http://localhost:8080.
>>
> What ?  IMO, this is just plain "wrong".
>
> This is like going into the BMW dealership and being told "Yeah, you'll
> love the way the new Z4 drives. Just get into this Mercedes sports car
> here and we'll take you over to the racetrack to watch someone else
> drive one."
>
> Why are we suggesting that users use another (OK, a "competing")
> scripting language to test HTML5 deployment ?
>
> Livecode is perfectly able to run a simple HTTP server. It is perfectly
> possible and not too hard to write a basic one. In fact, we now even
> have an included library that makes it trivial to write that very basic
> server.
>
> Why didn't we (i.e. Livecode - a careful use of the word  "we") just
> package up that simple server, and then include that, with suitable
> instructions.
>
> That would have avoided any implication that LC is any less capable than
> other scripting languages, and avoided reminding anyone that LC doesn't
> (yet) come packaged with all the libraries and therefore utilities that
> you could hope for.
>
>
> So - I'm hoping to write a basic version (including my "get around the
> same-domain limitation") and get it, or something like it, included in
> the LC distribution, so that the documentation has no need to recommend
> another language.
>
> <end of rant - thanks for listening :-)>
>
> Alex.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


--
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HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: httpd library and missed opportunity.

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
Alex,

Python is kinda tricky to bundle. If you're looking into writing an
extension, then these might be useful:

* Libmicrohttpd - from GNU project, embedable httpd in C:
https://www.gnu.org/software/libmicrohttpd/

Implementing httpd is not hard, it could be done quite easily.

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> [ started a new thread, so I can't rant without tainting the other thread ]
>
> I started out on the 'find a rev/livecode solution for a simple HTTP
> server" for one small reason :
>
>    the LC 9.0 Dictionary Guide, under "HTML5 Deployment" says
>
> Testing your HTML5 app with a local web server
>> Some browsers, such as Google Chrome, do not permit pages to download
>> resources from file:// URLs. You won't be able to test your application in
>> these browsers unless you run a local HTTP server.
>>
>> A quick and easy way to run a simple local HTTP server is to use Python.
>> Open a terminal window, change directory to your standalone's directory,
>> and run:
>>
>> python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080
>> This will let you access your standalone by opening your web browser and
>> visiting http://localhost:8080.
>>
>> What ?  IMO, this is just plain "wrong".
>
> This is like going into the BMW dealership and being told "Yeah, you'll
> love the way the new Z4 drives. Just get into this Mercedes sports car here
> and we'll take you over to the racetrack to watch someone else drive one."
>
> Why are we suggesting that users use another (OK, a "competing") scripting
> language to test HTML5 deployment ?
>
> Livecode is perfectly able to run a simple HTTP server. It is perfectly
> possible and not too hard to write a basic one. In fact, we now even have
> an included library that makes it trivial to write that very basic server.
>
> Why didn't we (i.e. Livecode - a careful use of the word  "we") just
> package up that simple server, and then include that, with suitable
> instructions.
>
> That would have avoided any implication that LC is any less capable than
> other scripting languages, and avoided reminding anyone that LC doesn't
> (yet) come packaged with all the libraries and therefore utilities that you
> could hope for.
>
>
> So - I'm hoping to write a basic version (including my "get around the
> same-domain limitation") and get it, or something like it, included in the
> LC distribution, so that the documentation has no need to recommend another
> language.
>
> <end of rant - thanks for listening :-)>
>
> Alex.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



--
http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
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Re: httpd library and missed opportunity.

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
I'd like to think that by the time LC 9 leaves DP status that this will be
possible.  There is already a library included in DP 8 to handle httpd
requests.

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Alex,
>
> Python is kinda tricky to bundle. If you're looking into writing an
> extension, then these might be useful:
>
> * Libmicrohttpd - from GNU project, embedable httpd in C:
> https://www.gnu.org/software/libmicrohttpd/
>
> Implementing httpd is not hard, it could be done quite easily.
>
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > [ started a new thread, so I can't rant without tainting the other
> thread ]
> >
> > I started out on the 'find a rev/livecode solution for a simple HTTP
> > server" for one small reason :
> >
> >    the LC 9.0 Dictionary Guide, under "HTML5 Deployment" says
> >
> > Testing your HTML5 app with a local web server
> >> Some browsers, such as Google Chrome, do not permit pages to download
> >> resources from file:// URLs. You won't be able to test your application
> in
> >> these browsers unless you run a local HTTP server.
> >>
> >> A quick and easy way to run a simple local HTTP server is to use Python.
> >> Open a terminal window, change directory to your standalone's directory,
> >> and run:
> >>
> >> python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080
> >> This will let you access your standalone by opening your web browser and
> >> visiting http://localhost:8080.
> >>
> >> What ?  IMO, this is just plain "wrong".
> >
> > This is like going into the BMW dealership and being told "Yeah, you'll
> > love the way the new Z4 drives. Just get into this Mercedes sports car
> here
> > and we'll take you over to the racetrack to watch someone else drive
> one."
> >
> > Why are we suggesting that users use another (OK, a "competing")
> scripting
> > language to test HTML5 deployment ?
> >
> > Livecode is perfectly able to run a simple HTTP server. It is perfectly
> > possible and not too hard to write a basic one. In fact, we now even have
> > an included library that makes it trivial to write that very basic
> server.
> >
> > Why didn't we (i.e. Livecode - a careful use of the word  "we") just
> > package up that simple server, and then include that, with suitable
> > instructions.
> >
> > That would have avoided any implication that LC is any less capable than
> > other scripting languages, and avoided reminding anyone that LC doesn't
> > (yet) come packaged with all the libraries and therefore utilities that
> you
> > could hope for.
> >
> >
> > So - I'm hoping to write a basic version (including my "get around the
> > same-domain limitation") and get it, or something like it, included in
> the
> > LC distribution, so that the documentation has no need to recommend
> another
> > language.
> >
> > <end of rant - thanks for listening :-)>
> >
> > Alex.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
> http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: httpd library and missed opportunity.

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
In reply to this post by ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode

> On 2 Aug 2017, at 7:16 am, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080
>> This will let you access your standalone by opening your web browser and visiting http://localhost:8080 <http://localhost:8080/>.
>>
> What ?  IMO, this is just plain "wrong".

I think there’s a couple of things here. The scope of the original HTML5 implementation did not include writing a HTTP server in LCS. It was before my time at the company but I believe a significant proportion of the project was Peter’s first thing he did in LC and he probably wasn’t aware of the fact there’s a few HTTPd implementations around the community. Anyway, now that we have one included in the IDE we definitely want to implement a deploy library so that you just need to click the Test button and it will pop up in your browser. Bonus points for being able to add extra browsers so you can choose a target.

I create a report about this a while back http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19909 <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19909>

Anyway, this could either be contributed by someone in the community or done in house when we get a chance.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: httpd library and missed opportunity.

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
The 'test' button is handy - but it's not the only way.
In fact, I rarely use it - I build my standalones, then try it out on 2
or 3 platforms (OK, this may be very untypical, because I am just
starting to play with mobile and html5 ... but I suspect it will
continue to be a viable work-flow - if only because of frequent
interruptions, etc.) So I would hope to be able to run the server,  and
then make multiple tests with a single standalone.

You said "[HTTPd library] ...  now that we have one included in the IDE
we ...". So is it the intention that this library is only available in
the IDE, and won't be available for inclusion in a standalone, or for
use from LCServer ?  (I can't see it in the list of inclusions in the
SB, unlike diff, getopt, etc. - though that list is getting long enough
that scrolling through it to see if something is there or not is
becoming  inexact).

Alex.

On 02/08/2017 01:13, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:

>> On 2 Aug 2017, at 7:16 am, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080
>>> This will let you access your standalone by opening your web browser and visiting http://localhost:8080 <http://localhost:8080/>.
>>>
>> What ?  IMO, this is just plain "wrong".
> I think there’s a couple of things here. The scope of the original HTML5 implementation did not include writing a HTTP server in LCS. It was before my time at the company but I believe a significant proportion of the project was Peter’s first thing he did in LC and he probably wasn’t aware of the fact there’s a few HTTPd implementations around the community. Anyway, now that we have one included in the IDE we definitely want to implement a deploy library so that you just need to click the Test button and it will pop up in your browser. Bonus points for being able to add extra browsers so you can choose a target.
>
> I create a report about this a while back http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19909 <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19909>
>
> Anyway, this could either be contributed by someone in the community or done in house when we get a chance.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: httpd library and missed opportunity.

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode

> On 2 Aug 2017, at 10:36 am, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The 'test' button is handy - but it's not the only way.
> In fact, I rarely use it - I build my standalones, then try it out on 2 or 3 platforms (OK, this may be very untypical, because I am just starting to play with mobile and html5 ... but I suspect it will continue to be a viable work-flow - if only because of frequent interruptions, etc.) So I would hope to be able to run the server,  and then make multiple tests with a single standalone.

Hmm… Well click the Test button and then from your other platform enter the IP of the machine with the IDE. Should work fine.

> You said "[HTTPd library] ...  now that we have one included in the IDE we ...". So is it the intention that this library is only available in the IDE, and won't be available for inclusion in a standalone, or for use from LCServer ?  (I can't see it in the list of inclusions in the SB, unlike diff, getopt, etc. - though that list is getting long enough that scrolling through it to see if something is there or not is becoming  inexact).

It should be in the list in dp-9.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: httpd library and missed opportunity.

** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode
On 02/08/2017 01:42, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 2 Aug 2017, at 10:36 am, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The 'test' button is handy - but it's not the only way.
>> In fact, I rarely use it - I build my standalones, then try it out on 2 or 3 platforms (OK, this may be very untypical, because I am just starting to play with mobile and html5 ... but I suspect it will continue to be a viable work-flow - if only because of frequent interruptions, etc.) So I would hope to be able to run the server,  and then make multiple tests with a single standalone.
> Hmm… Well click the Test button and then from your other platform enter the IP of the machine with the IDE. Should work fine.
I was a bit unclear, sorry.  I make some edits, then build for multiple
platforms (Mac, Android and HTML). Then I want to test each of those
platforms out, perhaps multiple times. Maybe all it needs is a "Retest"
button (or "cmd+Test") to re-use the most-recently-built for the
selected test target.
>> You said "[HTTPd library] ...  now that we have one included in the IDE we ...". So is it the intention that this library is only available in the IDE, and won't be available for inclusion in a standalone, or for use from LCServer ?  (I can't see it in the list of inclusions in the SB, unlike diff, getopt, etc. - though that list is getting long enough that scrolling through it to see if something is there or not is becoming  inexact).
> It should be in the list in dp-9.
I don't see it (or don't recognize it). (dp8 Indy, OSX)

Alex.

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