mark cards by finding -- a problem

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Re: mark cards by finding -- new insights

Dan Shafer
Maybe it's of less worth, perhaps even only modest worth, but "no  
worth"? A bit strong, I think.

While the debugger has problems, I note that there are a LOT of  
people here who have built some very sophisticated apps and managed  
to stumble around enough to get the job done. A language is "no  
worth" only if it can't produce useful products. Rev is WAY beyond  
that point.

On Jul 8, 2005, at 5:40 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:

>> a fabulous language without a reliable debugger is no worth.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html




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Re: mark cards by finding -- new insights

J. Landman Gay
In reply to this post by Timothy Miller-2
On 7/8/05 4:11 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:

> However, when I un-commented the handlers, the 'mark cards by
> finding...' script continued to work. I saved and closed the stack,
> re-opened it, and the command continued to work. This time, I hadn't
> changed any field properties.
>
> It's hard to avoid the conclusion that this is an intermittent bug that
> is influenced by some combination of field properties and/or field
> scripts and/or the placement of the field in a group, and/or group
> properties, and/or turning on "behave like a background" in the group
> properties.

Your testing was pretty thorough. All variants of the "find" command
work consistently for me in all my stacks, but when I see something like
this -- where it works in native stacks but not in a converted HyperCard
stack -- my experience has been that something isn't quite right with
the converted objects. This may be the case in your situation. Rev does
a very good job bringing in HC stacks, but sometimes the HC file is a
bit off (especially with very old HC stacks) and Rev can't always
convert it exactly. Since your stacks have probably lived through
several HC versions as well as Rev, I'm starting to think that's the
problem.

One (tedious) way to fix it might be to delete the fields in question
and re-create them in Rev; then they would be fully-native Rev objects
without any HC baggage. I have had to do that occasionally with HC popup
buttons, which sometimes don't transfer over very well.

You could try setting the HCAddressing of the stack to false if it won't
affect your scripts (you'd have to test everything to see,) and it might
fix the "find" problem. It does fix some other glitches sometimes. No
promises.

But easier, since the "find" commands work for you in other stacks, I
think I'd just go with "find string" for this stack and leave it at
that. I am sure that any new stacks you create will "mark cards by
finding" fine.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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debugger

mwieder
In reply to this post by Alex Tweedly
Alex-

Friday, July 8, 2005, 6:21:34 PM, you wrote:

AT> The other thing to watch our for is that stepping *out* of a function or
AT> handler also, I think, requires you to use the "step into" button.
AT> It's (IMO) a very misleading label on the button - it really means step
AT> to the next statement even in a different handler context - either
AT> entering or leaving.  (Hmmm - I can see why they didn't call it that :-)

IMO this is one of the biggest bugs in the debugger. I can't tell you
how many times I've accidentally stepped over an "end handler"
command. I really think the proper behavior here would be to step to
the next executable line, no matter which button was pressed.

BTW: have you noticed the added button in the v2.6 debugger? If you
change execution contexts and then click the button to the right of
the execution contexts window the code window will switch to the new
context.

AT> One more thing to watch for - closing the debugger/script window is
AT> equivalent to clicking "Run" !!
AT> Since you no longer have the debugger control window open, what can it
AT> do but try to continue. Makes some sense - but caught me out often until

Makes a lot of sense, actually... I'd hate to have my script paused
waiting for me to press a "step into" button in a debugger that I had
already closed.

--
-Mark Wieder
 [hidden email]

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[APOLOGISES] was: Re: mark cards by finding -- new insights

Eric Chatonet
In reply to this post by Dan Shafer
Hi Dan and all,

I do apologise: the words I used were not a bit strong but totally  
excessive.
In fact, it's my bad knowledge of English which played a dirty trick  
on me.
I wanted to tell that a fully reliable debugger with good ergonomics  
(it's not yet the case at the moment) is a major piece in any IDE.
Especially for beginners, it's an irreplaceable learning tool, a kind  
of big brother which look over your shoulder and tells you how to  
progress :-)
So I think that Runrev guys should pay more attention to the debugger  
as, beyond debugging, it shows:
1. What's happens is not a bug ;-)
2. It's your code which is badly dressed
3. You begin to see how to change it for a good one

Le 9 juil. 05 à 05:15, Dan Shafer a écrit :

> Maybe it's of less worth, perhaps even only modest worth, but "no  
> worth"? A bit strong, I think.
>
> While the debugger has problems, I note that there are a LOT of  
> people here who have built some very sophisticated apps and managed  
> to stumble around enough to get the job done. A language is "no  
> worth" only if it can't produce useful products. Rev is WAY beyond  
> that point.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
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Re: mark cards by finding -- new insights

Wouter-12
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay
Hi Timothy,


Did you try the following too? No need for the find command.
(I can't find it in this thread but then I can miss easily and if I  
did,  sorry in advance :-)

mark cards where field <fieldname> contains <string>
or
mark cards where field <fieldname> contains <string> and field  
<fieldname2> contains <string2>
or
mark cards where field <fieldname> contains <string> and the hilite  
of button <buttonname>  [is true]
or whatever combination

This works for me on my large from HC imported stacks.


Greetings,
Wouter



On 09 Jul 2005, at 05:23, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 7/8/05 4:11 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:
>
>
>> However, when I un-commented the handlers, the 'mark cards by  
>> finding...' script continued to work. I saved and closed the  
>> stack, re-opened it, and the command continued to work. This time,  
>> I hadn't changed any field properties.
>> It's hard to avoid the conclusion that this is an intermittent bug  
>> that is influenced by some combination of field properties and/or  
>> field scripts and/or the placement of the field in a group, and/or  
>> group properties, and/or turning on "behave like a background" in  
>> the group properties.
>>
>
> Your testing was pretty thorough. All variants of the "find"  
> command work consistently for me in all my stacks, but when I see  
> something like this -- where it works in native stacks but not in a  
> converted HyperCard stack -- my experience has been that something  
> isn't quite right with the converted objects. This may be the case  
> in your situation. Rev does a very good job bringing in HC stacks,  
> but sometimes the HC file is a bit off (especially with very old HC  
> stacks) and Rev can't always convert it exactly. Since your stacks  
> have probably lived through several HC versions as well as Rev, I'm  
> starting to think that's the problem.
>
> One (tedious) way to fix it might be to delete the fields in  
> question and re-create them in Rev; then they would be fully-native  
> Rev objects without any HC baggage. I have had to do that  
> occasionally with HC popup buttons, which sometimes don't transfer  
> over very well.
>
> You could try setting the HCAddressing of the stack to false if it  
> won't affect your scripts (you'd have to test everything to see,)  
> and it might fix the "find" problem. It does fix some other  
> glitches sometimes. No promises.
>
> But easier, since the "find" commands work for you in other stacks,  
> I think I'd just go with "find string" for this stack and leave it  
> at that. I am sure that any new stacks you create will "mark cards  
> by finding" fine.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________


Ps I replied on this mail to retain the chronological order on some  
mail archive sites
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Re: mark cards by finding -- new insights

Jon-3
In reply to this post by Dan Shafer
As critical as I am of Rev, from time to time, I have to say I've had no
problems debugging my programs using the debugger.

:)

Jon


Dan Shafer wrote:

> Maybe it's of less worth, perhaps even only modest worth, but "no  
> worth"? A bit strong, I think.
>
> While the debugger has problems, I note that there are a LOT of  
> people here who have built some very sophisticated apps and managed  
> to stumble around enough to get the job done. A language is "no  
> worth" only if it can't produce useful products. Rev is WAY beyond  
> that point.
>
> On Jul 8, 2005, at 5:40 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:
>
>>> a fabulous language without a reliable debugger is no worth.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
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Re: mark cards by finding -- new insights

Jon-3
In reply to this post by Dan Shafer
As critical as I am of Rev, from time to time, I have to say I've had no
problems debugging my programs using the debugger.

:)

Jon


Dan Shafer wrote:

> Maybe it's of less worth, perhaps even only modest worth, but "no  
> worth"? A bit strong, I think.
>
> While the debugger has problems, I note that there are a LOT of  
> people here who have built some very sophisticated apps and managed  
> to stumble around enough to get the job done. A language is "no  
> worth" only if it can't produce useful products. Rev is WAY beyond  
> that point.
>
> On Jul 8, 2005, at 5:40 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:
>
>>> a fabulous language without a reliable debugger is no worth.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

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