not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

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not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Long read, but worth the effort:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/saving-the-world-from-code/540393/

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]

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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
     
 

 Good read.    Thanks!
 

 
 

 
 
>  
> On Sep 30, 2017 at 12:31 PM,  <Mark Wieder via use-livecode (mailto:[hidden email])>  wrote:
>  
>  
>  
>  Long read, but worth the effort: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/saving-the-world-from-code/540393/ -- Mark Wieder [hidden email] _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list [hidden email] Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode 
>
>  
 
 
     
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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
On 09/30/2017 11:58 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
>      
>  
>
>   Good read.    Thanks!

Oops. I forgot to post a link to Bret Victor's talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxWM4t68cR4

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  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]

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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
> Mark Wieder wrote:
> Oops. I forgot to post a link to Bret Victor's talk:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxWM4t68cR4

Thanks for this valuable link. Very impressing thoughts
there.

The most interesting for me:
His first three demos are very close to LCB (as LCB is
close to javascript with the handlers he used).
So most of what he does with the sliders in the text
editor can we already have with "live-updates" from the
property inspector ...

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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
I posted a link to Bret Victor in may (and forgot the link like Mark).
I thought there would be more feedback but the only one was a request by
Richmond for the link.

I didn't expand on this - but my reasoning is that we are partly there and
as Herman suggests using LCB certain of the "algorithm design" methods
could be scripted, (by better men than me .. Mark, Ali, Monte - i'm looking
at you).

Chris Granger an ex Microsoftie was inspired by the talk  and created a
kickstarter for LIGHTTABLE which was to be something like Bret Victor's
concepts. The aim was $200,000 he got $360,000. The initial version was
based on the Closure language but they then added Python and JS because of
popularity. He then Open sourced it at version 0.6 and I think it is
basically dead - Nice work if you can get it.

There is pent up demand for something like it - Apples Playground for swift
goes much of the  way but Swift ain't Livecode.

Just the implementation of the Binary search Functionality would be a
brilliant first step for debugging logic in our functions or procedures -
the animation could come afterwards but HHs suggestion could be food for
thought.

Regards L:agi

<snip>

OOPS!!
https://vimeo.com/36579366

On 25 May 2017 at 12:33, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>> wrote:

>* Can you post the URL to that video, please?
*>>* Richmond.
*>>* On 5/25/17 1:13 pm, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote:
*>>>* Hi
*>>>>* You might want to watch this 1 hour ish video by Bret Victor as you are
*>>* compiling.
*>>* I've seen a good few of his talks over the years and read a lot of his
*>>* stuff.
*>>>>* If you think it's too long just got to either 2:30 or 10:30 (that one is
*>>* mind blowing) but I'd suggest you listen to the whole lecture.
*>>* This is the Ultimate IDE but his ideas about programming also cover what
*>>* Mark W.  was saying about not being able to remember the order of
*>>* parameters. That was in a different talk or on his website - i'll try and
*>>* dig it out.
*>>>>* Comments?
*>>>>* Regards Lagi*


On 30 September 2017 at 20:31, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 09/30/2017 11:58 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
>
>>
>>   Good read.    Thanks!
>>
>
> Oops. I forgot to post a link to Bret Victor's talk:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxWM4t68cR4
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
This article is exactly why I contend that man can never travel to other planets never mind solar systems, and colonize them. The complexity of something so vast as to be able to get us there would be failing all the time, and we would have to be able to anticipate those failures, and take repair parts several times more tham we predict we might need "just to be safe". Then you get out there, some code that runs the life support starts shutting it down, and the guy who wrote the code is back on planet earth too far away to communicate with. No one on earth would ever know how they all died.

No my friends and fellow man, we are made of the earth, for the earth.

Bob S


> On Sep 30, 2017, at 10:31 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Long read, but worth the effort:
>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/saving-the-world-from-code/540393/
>
> --
> Mark Wieder
> [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Hi Bob

That's why I said the Function part would be good - basically a LIVE
interactive debugger - the coding to do all the rest in a REAL programming
language rather than an animation studio or a testbed is way out of my
league - But given time and money anything is possible .... Except ......

And since you brought it up  what are are you saying? We have gone  to the
Moon or Not, or that programming and engineering is too complex to do
create the particular software system that Bret Victor envisages?

Anyway I'm with Richard Feynman so  "I don't care what other people think"
I'm 99.999999% certain we didn't go yo the moon- you can only be 100% sure
that you exist. I only came to this conclusion in the 90's even though the
evidence was overwhelming then, but it keeps piling up. This is coming from
someone who remembers EXACTLY where he was and what he was eating and
drinking when Neil Armstrong was getting his lines wrong. It was Milk  and
a Blue Riband biscuit. It took me a LOOOooong time to acknowledge I had
been lied to but sometimes you have to admit it.

I say the above knowing many will call me an idiot and such but the people
on this board are "Smarter than the average Bear" and would hope that they
assume that when I say this, it is  not by looking at one side, but looking
at all sides even giving the benefit of the doubt in some cases. But giving
the benefit of the doubt on more than 10 or 15 anomalies stretches
Cognitive Dissonance to the limit.

If this is not the place for a discussion how about we take it to the off
topic area in the forum - if nothing else it might bring in the "crazies"
to find Livecode when searching for info about Apollo;-)

<FLAME ON> - but i would prefer discourse - I am still open minded. --
.0000001%


Lagi

On 2 October 2017 at 15:51, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> This article is exactly why I contend that man can never travel to other
> planets never mind solar systems, and colonize them. The complexity of
> something so vast as to be able to get us there would be failing all the
> time, and we would have to be able to anticipate those failures, and take
> repair parts several times more tham we predict we might need "just to be
> safe". Then you get out there, some code that runs the life support starts
> shutting it down, and the guy who wrote the code is back on planet earth
> too far away to communicate with. No one on earth would ever know how they
> all died.
>
> No my friends and fellow man, we are made of the earth, for the earth.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Sep 30, 2017, at 10:31 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Long read, but worth the effort:
> >
> > https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/
> saving-the-world-from-code/540393/
> >
> > --
> > Mark Wieder
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
No, I am sure we put men on the moon. But we didn't stay there and there are no plans to actually colonize it. And the resources just to do that were "astronomical" (pardon the pun). There was of cource some redundancy, but some things cannot be repaired, as we learned with Apollo 13. Oh we patched it up enough to get them back, but they almost didn't make it even then, and all they had to do really was slingshot around the moon and get back.

Imagine now you are hurtling towards your next stop, Mars, and something serious goes bad. How do you repair it? If you can't, how do you turn around? You cannot exactly make a right turn at the speeds you are going, and there are no planetary bodies to slingshot around. You have to burn an inordinate amount of fuel to stop, then turn around, then burn an extraordinary amount of fuel to get back, and the Earth isn't standing still during all this. Did you bring the fuel to do that?

The hardware alone for that kind of space travel would make the moon launch look like a paper airplane. And the software for such a trip had better damn well be bug proof, because dead programmers don't write good code.

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2017, at 07:31 , Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> And since you brought it up  what are are you saying? We have gone  to the
> Moon or Not, or that programming and engineering is too complex to do
> create the particular software system that Bret Victor envisages?


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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Well then the REAL miracle to the moon launch is how Nasa either deceived the thousands of people who worked on the project, and keeps them deceived to this day, or else were able to keep all those thousands of people from talking or writing a book.

You see, conspiracies must by nature be extremely limited in participation and scope, otherwise it becomes compromised pretty quickly. Even the CIA doesn't expect to keep secrets forever. But if you don't think about all the individual people that have to spend their entire lives keeping a lie secret, and instead imagine this single minded boogie man called "the government" then you don't have to be bothered about that glaring miscalculation.

Believing that all those workers were "in on it" or else massively deceived during the whole process is so much more incredibly fantastic, that I would really rather believe that magical unicorns crapped the world into existence.

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2017, at 07:31 , Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Anyway I'm with Richard Feynman so  "I don't care what other people think"
> I'm 99.999999% certain we didn't go yo the moon- you can only be 100% sure
> that you exist. I only came to this conclusion in the 90's even though the
> evidence was overwhelming then, but it keeps piling up. This is coming from
> someone who remembers EXACTLY where he was and what he was eating and
> drinking when Neil Armstrong was getting his lines wrong. It was Milk  and
> a Blue Riband biscuit. It took me a LOOOooong time to acknowledge I had
> been lied to but sometimes you have to admit it.


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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > Well then the REAL miracle to the moon launch is how Nasa either
 > deceived the thousands of people who worked on the project, and keeps
 > them deceived to this day, or else were able to keep all those
 > thousands of people from talking or writing a book.

Arithmetically unlikely:

https://phys.org/news/2016-01-equation-large-scale-conspiracies-quickly-reveal.html

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  [hidden email]                http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Nice article, but his example of the Snowden revelations actually proves my point.

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2017, at 12:20 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>
> > Well then the REAL miracle to the moon launch is how Nasa either
> > deceived the thousands of people who worked on the project, and keeps
> > them deceived to this day, or else were able to keep all those
> > thousands of people from talking or writing a book.
>
> Arithmetically unlikely:
>
> https://phys.org/news/2016-01-equation-large-scale-conspiracies-quickly-reveal.html
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web


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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Yes, it very much supports your point.

What tickled me about it was his attempt to quantify the challenge of
keeping a large-scale conspiracy under wraps.

Personally, I wouldn't have chosen the Snowden story as the baseline;
too much still unknown and relatively little corroborated.  Iran-Contra
seems a better case, given the wealth of documentation complete enough
to have led to multiple convictions.

Bringing this back OT. maybe there's an app that needs to be made:

Enter the date the conspiracy is said to have taken place, an estimate
of the maximum number of people likely to know about it, and then it
would crunch the numbers to estimate the likelihood that the described
event actually managed to remain a secret all this time.

:)

--
  Richard Gaskin


Bob Sneidar wrote:
 > Nice article, but his example of the Snowden revelations actually
 > proves my point.
 >
 > Bob S
 >
 >
 >> On Oct 3, 2017, at 12:20 , Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >>
 >> Bob Sneidar wrote:
 >>
 >> > Well then the REAL miracle to the moon launch is how Nasa either
 >> > deceived the thousands of people who worked on the project, and
 >> > keeps them deceived to this day, or else were able to keep all
 >> > those thousands of people from talking or writing a book.
 >>
 >> Arithmetically unlikely:
 >>
 >>
https://phys.org/news/2016-01-equation-large-scale-conspiracies-quickly-reveal.html
 >>
 >> --



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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Hi,

I am well up on the argument of secrecy and that article -  falls down in
the first few paragraphs with the vaccines - you probably haven't heard of
the whistleblowers - Gus Grissom comes to mind

http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-researcher-blog/link-between-vaccines-and-african-american-boys-hidden-by-cdc-says-whistleblower
http://avoiceforchoice.org/cdcwhistleblower/

But ignorance here cost lives the Moon Hoax doesn't.

I'll give you the short reason why it was faked then give you a few links
you have probably not seen and a few questions - i've seen all the
"evidence"  most of it is, we've seen the moon rock, or we saw the pictures
on TV and that's it even Mythbusters used the simplest strawman argument.


Here are the Astronauts in the post "landing"  press conference

They are so elated looking at each other to see if tghey are puttijng a
foot wrong - wait for

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RcKLAo62Ro

This is a classic 52 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjppxh2-C0

Armstrong is asked if he ever saw stars from the surface of the moon...
Collins answers" I dont remember seeing any". Collins was never on the
surface of the moon....he was allegedly "orbiting" the moon, it was not his
question to answer.

It was basically done because America lost face with SputnK - the Cold war
was going on - I don't doubt Kennedy believed they could do it when he made
that speech.

They could'nt so a "FEW" top people got together - remember this is for
your country - all the astronauts were military men. You farm it out to
many companies - so everythingh is on a need to know. You give $40 billion
dollars - we can't do it but we can fake it for $2 billion thank you very
much.

Most of the workers at NASAgenuinely believed it - I sure did and I wasn't
involved in helping out.

Now here is the BEST 9 minute video which shows you NASA people *admitting*
they don't know how they did it in 1969.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpPMoIv1lxI&t=22s


I have more questions and other anomalies not in here but that's for
another day.


This video from 3:22 onwards shows that they have also faked certain
Shuttle exercises. Here the shuttle is "in space" with a man's face in view
for about 5 seconds is priceless - Gerry Anderson would be proud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9i8tMzxIn0&index=1&t=254s&list=FL0uijsHtSIJz8eE6CrUECIw

Don't get me wrong they have sent shuttles up in Space (but never higher
than 400 Miles) , but some of the stuff they say they did with it are
models - tell me I'm wrong but watch the video first


If you want my take on the secrecy issue I might expand - "A man convinced
against his will is of the same opinion still".

Regards Lagi


p.s

If nothing else just listen to the 13 seconds here at 5:43

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpPMoIv1lxI&t=22s











On 3 October 2017 at 21:17, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Nice article, but his example of the Snowden revelations actually proves
> my point.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Oct 3, 2017, at 12:20 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Bob Sneidar wrote:
> >
> > > Well then the REAL miracle to the moon launch is how Nasa either
> > > deceived the thousands of people who worked on the project, and keeps
> > > them deceived to this day, or else were able to keep all those
> > > thousands of people from talking or writing a book.
> >
> > Arithmetically unlikely:
> >
> > https://phys.org/news/2016-01-equation-large-scale-
> conspiracies-quickly-reveal.html
> >
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
> > Fourth World Systems
> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
The simplest of strawman arguements. :-)

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2017, at 14:21 , Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If you want my take on the secrecy issue I might expand - "A man convinced
> against his will is of the same opinion still".
>
> Regards Lagi


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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
It would really enhance my LiveCode email group experience if I could STOP reading about the fake moon landing and vaccines.

Besides, the moon is made of green CHEESE !!

.Jerry

> On Oct 3, 2017, at 2:21 PM, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am well up on the argument of secrecy and that article -  falls down in
> the first few paragraphs with the vaccines - you probably haven't heard of
> the whistleblowers - Gus Grissom comes to mind
>
> http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-researcher-blog/link-between-vaccines-and-african-american-boys-hidden-by-cdc-says-whistleblower
> http://avoiceforchoice.org/cdcwhistleblower/
>
> But ignorance here cost lives the Moon Hoax doesn't.
>
> I'll give you the short reason why it was faked then give you a few links
> you have probably not seen and a few questions - i've seen all the
> "evidence"  most of it is, we've seen the moon rock, or we saw the pictures
> on TV and that's it even Mythbusters used the simplest strawman argument.
>
>
> Here are the Astronauts in the post "landing"  press conference
>
> They are so elated looking at each other to see if tghey are puttijng a
> foot wrong - wait for
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RcKLAo62Ro
>
> This is a classic 52 seconds
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjppxh2-C0
>
> Armstrong is asked if he ever saw stars from the surface of the moon...
> Collins answers" I dont remember seeing any". Collins was never on the
> surface of the moon....he was allegedly "orbiting" the moon, it was not his
> question to answer.
>
> It was basically done because America lost face with SputnK - the Cold war
> was going on - I don't doubt Kennedy believed they could do it when he made
> that speech.
>
> They could'nt so a "FEW" top people got together - remember this is for
> your country - all the astronauts were military men. You farm it out to
> many companies - so everythingh is on a need to know. You give $40 billion
> dollars - we can't do it but we can fake it for $2 billion thank you very
> much.
>
> Most of the workers at NASAgenuinely believed it - I sure did and I wasn't
> involved in helping out.
>
> Now here is the BEST 9 minute video which shows you NASA people *admitting*
> they don't know how they did it in 1969.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpPMoIv1lxI&t=22s
>
>
> I have more questions and other anomalies not in here but that's for
> another day.
>
>
> This video from 3:22 onwards shows that they have also faked certain
> Shuttle exercises. Here the shuttle is "in space" with a man's face in view
> for about 5 seconds is priceless - Gerry Anderson would be proud
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9i8tMzxIn0&index=1&t=254s&list=FL0uijsHtSIJz8eE6CrUECIw
>
> Don't get me wrong they have sent shuttles up in Space (but never higher
> than 400 Miles) , but some of the stuff they say they did with it are
> models - tell me I'm wrong but watch the video first
>
>
> If you want my take on the secrecy issue I might expand - "A man convinced
> against his will is of the same opinion still".
>
> Regards Lagi
>
>
> p.s
>
> If nothing else just listen to the 13 seconds here at 5:43
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpPMoIv1lxI&t=22s
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3 October 2017 at 21:17, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Nice article, but his example of the Snowden revelations actually proves
>> my point.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 12:20 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well then the REAL miracle to the moon launch is how Nasa either
>>>> deceived the thousands of people who worked on the project, and keeps
>>>> them deceived to this day, or else were able to keep all those
>>>> thousands of people from talking or writing a book.
>>>
>>> Arithmetically unlikely:
>>>
>>> https://phys.org/news/2016-01-equation-large-scale-
>> conspiracies-quickly-reveal.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World Systems
>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>>
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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
"because dead programmers don't write good code."

More to the point, Astronauts (c.f. end-users) usually don't know how to
write code at all.

Richmond.

On 10/3/17 9:59 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

> No, I am sure we put men on the moon. But we didn't stay there and there are no plans to actually colonize it. And the resources just to do that were "astronomical" (pardon the pun). There was of cource some redundancy, but some things cannot be repaired, as we learned with Apollo 13. Oh we patched it up enough to get them back, but they almost didn't make it even then, and all they had to do really was slingshot around the moon and get back.
>
> Imagine now you are hurtling towards your next stop, Mars, and something serious goes bad. How do you repair it? If you can't, how do you turn around? You cannot exactly make a right turn at the speeds you are going, and there are no planetary bodies to slingshot around. You have to burn an inordinate amount of fuel to stop, then turn around, then burn an extraordinary amount of fuel to get back, and the Earth isn't standing still during all this. Did you bring the fuel to do that?
>
> The hardware alone for that kind of space travel would make the moon launch look like a paper airplane. And the software for such a trip had better damn well be bug proof, because dead programmers don't write good code.
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 07:31 , Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> And since you brought it up  what are are you saying? We have gone  to the
>> Moon or Not, or that programming and engineering is too complex to do
>> create the particular software system that Bret Victor envisages?
>
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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
"magical unicorns crapped the world into existence."

But they did: where have you been recently?

Just as LiveCode 8.1.6 just spontaneously appeared without

Homo Africanus (HyperCard), Home Erectus (Metacard) and
a lot of subsequent depilation.

Richmond.

On 10/3/17 10:06 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

> Well then the REAL miracle to the moon launch is how Nasa either deceived the thousands of people who worked on the project, and keeps them deceived to this day, or else were able to keep all those thousands of people from talking or writing a book.
>
> You see, conspiracies must by nature be extremely limited in participation and scope, otherwise it becomes compromised pretty quickly. Even the CIA doesn't expect to keep secrets forever. But if you don't think about all the individual people that have to spend their entire lives keeping a lie secret, and instead imagine this single minded boogie man called "the government" then you don't have to be bothered about that glaring miscalculation.
>
> Believing that all those workers were "in on it" or else massively deceived during the whole process is so much more incredibly fantastic, that I would really rather believe that magical unicorns crapped the world into existence.
>  
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 07:31 , Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Anyway I'm with Richard Feynman so  "I don't care what other people think"
>> I'm 99.999999% certain we didn't go yo the moon- you can only be 100% sure
>> that you exist. I only came to this conclusion in the 90's even though the
>> evidence was overwhelming then, but it keeps piling up. This is coming from
>> someone who remembers EXACTLY where he was and what he was eating and
>> drinking when Neil Armstrong was getting his lines wrong. It was Milk  and
>> a Blue Riband biscuit. It took me a LOOOooong time to acknowledge I had
>> been lied to but sometimes you have to admit it.
>
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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
In reply to this post by J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Hi Lagi,

The Apollo Astronauts left “Laser Reflectors” on the moon so that
we could very accurately measure the distance between the Earth
and the Moon.

If you get the right equipment you too can do this experiment.
The reflectors are still there on the moon right where they left them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment#/media/File:ALSEP_AS14-67-9386.jpg <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment#/media/File:ALSEP_AS14-67-9386.jpg>

Enjoy,

Rick

P.S. Maybe Astronauts in the far future will be able to write programs on the fly with future LiveCode!



> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am well up on the argument of secrecy and that article -  falls down in
> the first few paragraphs with the vaccines - you probably haven't heard of
> the whistleblowers - Gus Grissom comes to mind
>
> http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-researcher-blog/link-between-vaccines-and-african-american-boys-hidden-by-cdc-says-whistleblower
> http://avoiceforchoice.org/cdcwhistleblower/
>
> But ignorance here cost lives the Moon Hoax doesn't.
>
> I'll give you the short reason why it was faked then give you a few links
> you have probably not seen and a few questions - i've seen all the
> "evidence"  most of it is, we've seen the moon rock, or we saw the pictures
> on TV and that's it even Mythbusters used the simplest strawman argument.
>
>
> Here are the Astronauts in the post "landing"  press conference
>
> They are so elated looking at each other to see if tghey are puttijng a
> foot wrong - wait for
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RcKLAo62Ro
>
> This is a classic 52 seconds
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjppxh2-C0
>
> Armstrong is asked if he ever saw stars from the surface of the moon...
> Collins answers" I dont remember seeing any". Collins was never on the
> surface of the moon....he was allegedly "orbiting" the moon, it was not his
> question to answer.
>
> It was basically done because America lost face with SputnK - the Cold war
> was going on - I don't doubt Kennedy believed they could do it when he made
> that speech.
>
> They could'nt so a "FEW" top people got together - remember this is for
> your country - all the astronauts were military men. You farm it out to
> many companies - so everythingh is on a need to know. You give $40 billion
> dollars - we can't do it but we can fake it for $2 billion thank you very
> much.
>
> Most of the workers at NASAgenuinely believed it - I sure did and I wasn't
> involved in helping out.
>
> Now here is the BEST 9 minute video which shows you NASA people *admitting*
> they don't know how they did it in 1969.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpPMoIv1lxI&t=22s
>
>
> I have more questions and other anomalies not in here but that's for
> another day.
>
>
> This video from 3:22 onwards shows that they have also faked certain
> Shuttle exercises. Here the shuttle is "in space" with a man's face in view
> for about 5 seconds is priceless - Gerry Anderson would be proud
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9i8tMzxIn0&index=1&t=254s&list=FL0uijsHtSIJz8eE6CrUECIw
>
> Don't get me wrong they have sent shuttles up in Space (but never higher
> than 400 Miles) , but some of the stuff they say they did with it are
> models - tell me I'm wrong but watch the video first
>
>
> If you want my take on the secrecy issue I might expand - "A man convinced
> against his will is of the same opinion still".
>
> Regards Lagi
>
>
> p.s
>
> If nothing else just listen to the 13 seconds here at 5:43
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpPMoIv1lxI&t=22s
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3 October 2017 at 21:17, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Nice article, but his example of the Snowden revelations actually proves
>> my point.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 12:20 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well then the REAL miracle to the moon launch is how Nasa either
>>>> deceived the thousands of people who worked on the project, and keeps
>>>> them deceived to this day, or else were able to keep all those
>>>> thousands of people from talking or writing a book.
>>>
>>> Arithmetically unlikely:
>>>
>>> https://phys.org/news/2016-01-equation-large-scale-
>> conspiracies-quickly-reveal.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World Systems
>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
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Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Actually, since we weren't able to get there, we had to give them to the aliens who were running the CIA at the time, and they dropped them off. That way we can maintain the deception pretty convincingly.

Bob S


> On Oct 4, 2017, at 16:18 , Rick Harrison via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Lagi,
>
> The Apollo Astronauts left “Laser Reflectors” on the moon so that
> we could very accurately measure the distance between the Earth
> and the Moon.
>
> If you get the right equipment you too can do this experiment.
> The reflectors are still there on the moon right where they left them.

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60 years of the Space Age

J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
On 10/04/2017 04:30 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Actually, since we weren't able to get there, we had to give them to the aliens who were running the CIA at the time, and they dropped them off. That way we can maintain the deception pretty convincingly.

I am really sorry to have started this thread, even though Alien Laser
Reflectors on the Moon sounds like a great movie.

Meanwhile, let's all celebrate the 60th anniversary of the launching of
Sputnik I.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/10/the-world-needs-a-terrestrial-sputnik-moment/541989

--
  Mark Wieder
  [hidden email]

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