[off]macbook model

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[off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
I'm thinking of replacing my 2011 macbook air with a new macbook, but I'm
torn on which one to go for.  Primary uses are going to be LC development
and browser goodness.
Before anyone chimes in about Windoze or LInux, I already have both of
those covered.
Things I'm wondering about:
1) Screen real estate:  Appearance aside, is there an advantage to retina?
Do I get more working space if I don't go to a 15" display?
2) I don't notice the speed of this box affecting much of anything.  For
development, does cpu really matter?  I suspect I'd do better with some
more memory, but has anyone noticed that it matters?
3) I can get a 27" 5k imac pretty nicely equipped for the same price as a
15" MBP.  Ignoring the portability issue, any thoughts?

--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
Comments inline below:
> On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:53 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Things I'm wondering about:
> 1) Screen real estate:  Appearance aside, is there an advantage to retina?
> Do I get more working space if I don't go to a 15" display?

My eyesight is not great. Retina doesn’t make that much difference to me, screen size DOES.

> 2) I don't notice the speed of this box affecting much of anything.  For
> development, does cpu really matter?  I suspect I'd do better with some
> more memory, but has anyone noticed that it matters?

If you don’t notice speed now, probably it won’t be an issue for you. Until you use a faster one. Then, you’ll want it. I am firmly of the camp that I don’t ever want to run out of RAM. I probably overdo it. New offerings from Apple seem to have enough, which was not always true. For development & browsing, for sure 8G minimum, 16G comfortable.

> 3) I can get a 27" 5k imac pretty nicely equipped for the same price as a
> 15" MBP.  Ignoring the portability issue, any thoughts?

Portability is HUGE for me. I have 27” monitors most places I go, which may not be typical. If portability is not an issue for you, go for the iMac. That 5k screen is really beautiful, wrote the blind man <grin>.

Take with salt!
.Jerry


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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
I have a late 2014 iMac (27" Retina) and really like the large screen.  I'm
just getting into LC, but the screen is great for having lots of stuff on
screen visible at once.  I do miss the portability a bit.  I make do with
Win laptops when away from my iMac.

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 9:10 PM, Jerry Jensen via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Comments inline below:
> > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:53 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Things I'm wondering about:
> > 1) Screen real estate:  Appearance aside, is there an advantage to
> retina?
> > Do I get more working space if I don't go to a 15" display?
>
> My eyesight is not great. Retina doesn’t make that much difference to me,
> screen size DOES.
>
> > 2) I don't notice the speed of this box affecting much of anything.  For
> > development, does cpu really matter?  I suspect I'd do better with some
> > more memory, but has anyone noticed that it matters?
>
> If you don’t notice speed now, probably it won’t be an issue for you.
> Until you use a faster one. Then, you’ll want it. I am firmly of the camp
> that I don’t ever want to run out of RAM. I probably overdo it. New
> offerings from Apple seem to have enough, which was not always true. For
> development & browsing, for sure 8G minimum, 16G comfortable.
>
> > 3) I can get a 27" 5k imac pretty nicely equipped for the same price as a
> > 15" MBP.  Ignoring the portability issue, any thoughts?
>
> Portability is HUGE for me. I have 27” monitors most places I go, which
> may not be typical. If portability is not an issue for you, go for the
> iMac. That 5k screen is really beautiful, wrote the blind man <grin>.
>
> Take with salt!
> .Jerry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner via use-livecode
I have a MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013). I have two locations that I work from. Each one has a 24” external monitor that I use as my main monitor. I also have a small 3Tb USB3 drive that I take with me. At each location I have a thunderbolt hub, display, and printer (they’re soo cheap) and backup drives. So, to switch from one location to another, all I have to do is pack up my laptop and the 3Tb drive. In a few minutes I’m set up at my new location.

I haven’t found a reason to upgrade yet.

Best,
Bill

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:53 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'm thinking of replacing my 2011 macbook air with a new macbook, but I'm
> torn on which one to go for.  Primary uses are going to be LC development=


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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner via use-livecode
I’m a bit like you, I have an aging Air and will probably replace it soon with a 13 inch Macbook Pro (without the touch bar). Portability is important to me so 15 inch is too big to lug around (I had couple of Macbook Pro 15 inch models prior to the Air, so know what that’s like).

Screen real estate is an issue for me though and when I’m in the office, at work or home, I tend to hook into an external monitor (one is 21 inch the other 23) and this makes things a lot easier for LC development – particularly for mobile stuff, where I often have LC and the simulator open or even two copies of LC.

If portability was a non-issue I’d be very tempted by a 27 inch iMac, but even at home I do find myself using my Air in different places for different reasons on quite a regular basis. That flexibility would be tough to give up.

Terry...

On 1/09/2017 11:53 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Kerner via use-livecode" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

    I'm thinking of replacing my 2011 macbook air with a new macbook, but I'm
    torn on which one to go for.  Primary uses are going to be LC development
    and browser goodness.
    Before anyone chimes in about Windoze or LInux, I already have both of
    those covered.
    Things I'm wondering about:
    1) Screen real estate:  Appearance aside, is there an advantage to retina?
    Do I get more working space if I don't go to a 15" display?
    2) I don't notice the speed of this box affecting much of anything.  For
    development, does cpu really matter?  I suspect I'd do better with some
    more memory, but has anyone noticed that it matters?
    3) I can get a 27" 5k imac pretty nicely equipped for the same price as a
    15" MBP.  Ignoring the portability issue, any thoughts?
   
    --
    On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
    On the second day, God created the oceans.
    On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
       and did a little diving.
    And God said, "This is good."
    _______________________________________________
    use-livecode mailing list
    [hidden email]
    Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
   
   

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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner via use-livecode

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 18:53 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> 1) Screen real estate:  Appearance aside, is there an advantage to retina?

Not sure about an advantage, but I will say that apps need to be retina aware. Parallels for instance changed the scale of things inside Windows. The GPU essentially has 4 times the work to do. You need to upgrade to resolve that issue.

> Do I get more working space if I don't go to a 15" display?

This doesn't make sense. Is your old screen bigger/smaller? It's not much more real estate over a 13" anyway that would make you go "WOW!"

> 2) I don't notice the speed of this box affecting much of anything.  For
> development, does cpu really matter?  I suspect I'd do better with some
> more memory, but has anyone noticed that it matters?

The speed gain is the SSD drive. More memory helps especially for having lots of processes running simultaneously. And if you are building fairly large apps, I do notice a speed gain when creating standalones. And don't rule out gaming! :-)

> 3) I can get a 27" 5k imac pretty nicely equipped for the same price as a
> 15" MBP.  Ignoring the portability issue, any thoughts?

How often do you use your Air away from home? Can you see yourself doing without it, maybe using a mobile device instead? If so, then obviously the iMac is going to be the better choice *IF* it has an SSD drive. I have an SSD in my laptop for work, and a 27" iMac at home. Once you are used to the SSD performance, it's hard watching while the iMac does whatever it does at any given time. Also, if you are going to be gaming, DEFINITELY get the 27" iMac with lots of RAM and SSD!!!

Bob S




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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner via use-livecode
I should also mention that the new laptops do not have an ethernet port, and do not use a standard USB port. The series just before the most recent at least still have USB3 ports with the Type A connectors. They prior series also has the standard HDMI ports, and the old style MiniDisplay/Thunderbolt port. The new ones *may* have HDMI but the thunderbolt port is completely new. (all from memory)

Bob S





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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
I would recommend that you buy the latest model of the MacBook so that
you then have to go and spend lots more money on peripherals . . .

Recently I took my MacBook Pro (cast-off of one of my sons) to Britain
to visit my Mum and Dad,
and the thing "developed" a self-assigned IP address, further
complicated that its internal WiFi does not
work (one of several reasons why my younger boy checked it at me) and
was working with a USB WiFi dongle.

As it has an ethernet port I just jacked it into M&D's modem with a LAN
cable . . .

Apple are doing a fine job painting themselves into an expensive corner;
bijoux toys methinks.

With NO standard ports Apple are selling something that will be useless
just as soon as something fails

(I'm booting off an external USB disk as the internal SATA connexion is
dead)

so, having spent your thousands of dollars you'll have to start saving
right away for its replacement.

This IS the voice of personal experience speaking: having just saved a
serviceable laptop from the trash BECAUSE
it has 2 standard USB ports.

Tim Cook needs a lot of people to shout "Universal System Bus" at him!

Richmond.

On 9/1/17 5:52 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

> I should also mention that the new laptops do not have an ethernet port, and do not use a standard USB port. The series just before the most recent at least still have USB3 ports with the Type A connectors. They prior series also has the standard HDMI ports, and the old style MiniDisplay/Thunderbolt port. The new ones *may* have HDMI but the thunderbolt port is completely new. (all from memory)
>
> Bob S
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
I cannot think of a worse choice to lead Apple, IMHO.

Bob S


> On Sep 1, 2017, at 08:03 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Tim Cook needs a lot of people to shout "Universal System Bus" at him!
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 9/1/17 5:52 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>


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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
who, cook?  I know.  I was screaming about it when Jobs was still alive,
and all he's done is prove me right.
Yes on SSD's - we don't order anything without them.  They make such a
gigantic difference in a machine's lifespan, and seem to improve
performance much more than a stronger processor or memory.  This 2011 MBA
is a perfect example of that, but that's also why I'm sort-of ambivalent
about replacing it.  Most of the work I do developing is editing code, not
doing layouts (which is part of the reason why Levure is so interesting
- layouts tend to be fairly static, at least compared to code).
The question on screen real estate was more to do with retina vs non.  If a
13" MBP with a retina screen doesn't give me a lot of extra working room
vs. a 13" MBA then that is less attractive.  I think I've ruled out the MB
because it only comes with a 12" screen, which I'm betting won't help me
UNLESS I also get a 13" ipad pro and use airDisplay to use it as a second,
portable monitor.
I'm one of those "gaming is for consoles" people, so I don't game on my
computers.

On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I cannot think of a worse choice to lead Apple, IMHO.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Sep 1, 2017, at 08:03 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Tim Cook needs a lot of people to shout "Universal System Bus" at him!
> >
> > Richmond.
> >
> > On 9/1/17 5:52 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
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>



--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
Hi Mike,

If you don’t need the portability, go with the 27 inch iMac
with the SSD drive for development, you won’t regret it.

Just my 2 cents for the day.

Cheers,

Rick
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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner via use-livecode
On 2017-09-01 17:03, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:
> Tim Cook needs a lot of people to shout "Universal System Bus" at him!

Well, he must have been listening as the latest MacBook Pro has 4 USB-C
ports and a headphone jack - nothing else.

At the moment, of course, only the power being USB-C is really useful
since it can be plugged into any port on either side. Other things
require dongles.

However, USB-C is an international standard (not Apple proprietary, nor
Apple created and no-one else adopted) which is gaining much more
traction in general - both in smart phones and Windows laptops.

Okay, so it is going to be a couple more years before USB-C replaces
USB/HDMI/DisplayPort/MiniDisplayPort/... but at least it appears (at the
moment) to be doing better than other attempts to redefine universal
peripheral connection :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ [hidden email] ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
I've always said, everyone loves standards... their OWN standards. :-)

But seriously, if this is FINALLY the last port anyone will ever create or need, well then okay. But I must say, the only people who benefit from this sort of thing are the device manufacturers and peripheral vendors. The end user, very little if any. It ALWAYS ends up costing me more money than just the purchase price of my computer whenever I upgrade.

Bob S


> On Sep 1, 2017, at 10:55 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 2017-09-01 17:03, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:
>> Tim Cook needs a lot of people to shout "Universal System Bus" at him!
>
> Well, he must have been listening as the latest MacBook Pro has 4 USB-C ports and a headphone jack - nothing else.
>
> At the moment, of course, only the power being USB-C is really useful since it can be plugged into any port on either side. Other things require dongles.
>
> However, USB-C is an international standard (not Apple proprietary, nor Apple created and no-one else adopted) which is gaining much more traction in general - both in smart phones and Windows laptops.
>
> Okay, so it is going to be a couple more years before USB-C replaces USB/HDMI/DisplayPort/MiniDisplayPort/... but at least it appears (at the moment) to be doing better than other attempts to redefine universal peripheral connection :)
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ [hidden email] ~ http://www.livecode.com/


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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
If you get a new MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt-3 (USB-C) ports
there are a couple of nice docks which will split out most of the
standard old ports. Both Belkin and Plugable make them

https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Supports-DisplayPort/dp/B06ZYR66QB <https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Supports-DisplayPort/dp/B06ZYR66QB>

https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbolt-Docking-Station-Delivery-Charging/dp/B073JDZGKK/ref=sr_1_8 <https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbolt-Docking-Station-Delivery-Charging/dp/B073JDZGKK/ref=sr_1_8>

I hope that helps someone.

Rick

> On Sep 1, 2017, at 2:11 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I've always said, everyone loves standards... their OWN standards. :-)
>
> But seriously, if this is FINALLY the last port anyone will ever create or need, well then okay. But I must say, the only people who benefit from this sort of thing are the device manufacturers and peripheral vendors. The end user, very little if any. It ALWAYS ends up costing me more money than just the purchase price of my computer whenever I upgrade.
>
> Bob S
>

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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
it looks like the same dock, just two different brands

On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> If you get a new MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt-3 (USB-C) ports
> there are a couple of nice docks which will split out most of the
> standard old ports. Both Belkin and Plugable make them
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Supports-
> DisplayPort/dp/B06ZYR66QB <https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Thunderbolt-
> Compatible-Supports-DisplayPort/dp/B06ZYR66QB>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbolt-Docking-Station-Delivery-Charging/dp/
> B073JDZGKK/ref=sr_1_8 <https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbolt-Docking-Station-
> Delivery-Charging/dp/B073JDZGKK/ref=sr_1_8>
>
> I hope that helps someone.
>
> Rick
>
> > On Sep 1, 2017, at 2:11 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I've always said, everyone loves standards... their OWN standards. :-)
> >
> > But seriously, if this is FINALLY the last port anyone will ever create
> or need, well then okay. But I must say, the only people who benefit from
> this sort of thing are the device manufacturers and peripheral vendors. The
> end user, very little if any. It ALWAYS ends up costing me more money than
> just the purchase price of my computer whenever I upgrade.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>



--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
Hi Mike,

The StarTech one is $329.99

The Plugable one is $189.00

So buy the cheaper one, and save $140.99

It almost looks like StarTech bought the Plugable one,
put it’s own paintwork on it, and is reselling it at a much
higher price to make it look like a better quality product.  LOL

Rick

> On Sep 1, 2017, at 4:20 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> it looks like the same dock, just two different brands
>
> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> If you get a new MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt-3 (USB-C) ports
>> there are a couple of nice docks which will split out most of the
>> standard old ports. Both Belkin and Plugable make them
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Supports-
>> DisplayPort/dp/B06ZYR66QB <https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Thunderbolt-
>> Compatible-Supports-DisplayPort/dp/B06ZYR66QB>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbolt-Docking-Station-Delivery-Charging/dp/
>> B073JDZGKK/ref=sr_1_8 <https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbolt-Docking-Station-
>> Delivery-Charging/dp/B073JDZGKK/ref=sr_1_8>
>>
>> I hope that helps someone.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>> On Sep 1, 2017, at 2:11 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've always said, everyone loves standards... their OWN standards. :-)
>>>
>>> But seriously, if this is FINALLY the last port anyone will ever create
>> or need, well then okay. But I must say, the only people who benefit from
>> this sort of thing are the device manufacturers and peripheral vendors. The
>> end user, very little if any. It ALWAYS ends up costing me more money than
>> just the purchase price of my computer whenever I upgrade.
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: [off]macbook model

Mike Kerner via use-livecode
In reply to this post by Mike Kerner via use-livecode
Yeah but the point is that we have to. Apple should include a simple one if they expect people to upgrade.

Bob S


> On Sep 1, 2017, at 12:48 , Rick Harrison via use-livecode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If you get a new MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt-3 (USB-C) ports
> there are a couple of nice docks which will split out most of the
> standard old ports. Both Belkin and Plugable make them
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Supports-DisplayPort/dp/B06ZYR66QB<https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Supports-DisplayPort/dp/B06ZYR66QB>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbolt-Docking-Station-Delivery-Charging/dp/B073JDZGKK/ref=sr_1_8<https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbolt-Docking-Station-Delivery-Charging/dp/B073JDZGKK/ref=sr_1_8>
>
> I hope that helps someone.
>
> Rick


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