on-rev remote database

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on-rev remote database

Len Morgan
  I seem to remember someone having trouble connecting to a database on
their on-rev account remotely a while back.  Was this ever resolved?  
I'd like to have a database that can be accessed from anywhere but I'd
rather not go through the hoops of making a web service to get at the data.

Was this too much of a security issue for the hosting service to allow?

len morgan
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Re: on-rev remote database

Pierre Sahores-3
Ien,

There went some troubles, full solved months ago, about login to the phpPgAdmin panel of the cPanel, on the loki server at least. All worked from that time 100% well. Both MySQL and PostgreSQL are yet full usable in the on-rev environment and some of my apps use both on a 24/7 basis (MySQL for the earliest ones, and PostgreSQL for all the other and next to come.

HTH,

Pierre

Le 17 oct. 2010 à 13:05, Len Morgan a écrit :

> I seem to remember someone having trouble connecting to a database on their on-rev account remotely a while back.  Was this ever resolved?  I'd like to have a database that can be accessed from anywhere but I'd rather not go through the hoops of making a web service to get at the data.
>
> Was this too much of a security issue for the hosting service to allow?
>
> len morgan
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
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Re: on-rev remote database

Len Morgan
  Pierre,

I'm not having any trouble with the phpPgAdmin because that's running on
the same server as Postgres is.  What I'm trying to do is use (for the
time being) PgAdmin from my computer at home to talk to the server at
on-rev.  So far, all I get is a message that there is no server
listening there so I'm thinking it's some sort of firewall issue.  Has
anyone been able to successfully connect to Postgres on on-rev from a
remote computer?

len


On 10/17/2010 11:52 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Ien,
>
> There went some troubles, full solved months ago, about login to the phpPgAdmin panel of the cPanel, on the loki server at least. All worked from that time 100% well. Both MySQL and PostgreSQL are yet full usable in the on-rev environment and some of my apps use both on a 24/7 basis (MySQL for the earliest ones, and PostgreSQL for all the other and next to come.
>
> HTH,
>
> Pierre
>
> Le 17 oct. 2010 à 13:05, Len Morgan a écrit :
>
>> I seem to remember someone having trouble connecting to a database on their on-rev account remotely a while back.  Was this ever resolved?  I'd like to have a database that can be accessed from anywhere but I'd rather not go through the hoops of making a web service to get at the data.
>>
>> Was this too much of a security issue for the hosting service to allow?
>>
>> len morgan
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
> --
> Pierre Sahores
> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70
>
> www.woooooooords.com
> www.sahores-conseil.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

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Re: on-rev remote database

Pierre Sahores-3
Ien,

You can't do this because the on-rev PostgreSQL servers security rules (following in this the best practices recommanded by the PostgreSQL team) are set to allow localhost connections only. Why don't you  simply use the on-Rev phpPgAdmin panel from your home box ? Works perfect and let us do exactly all what we could do in using PgAdmin on the 5432 unprotected port.

HTH,

Pierre

Le 17 oct. 2010 à 21:42, Len Morgan a écrit :

> Pierre,
>
> I'm not having any trouble with the phpPgAdmin because that's running on the same server as Postgres is.  What I'm trying to do is use (for the time being) PgAdmin from my computer at home to talk to the server at on-rev.  So far, all I get is a message that there is no server listening there so I'm thinking it's some sort of firewall issue.  Has anyone been able to successfully connect to Postgres on on-rev from a remote computer?
>
> len
>
>
> On 10/17/2010 11:52 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>> Ien,
>>
>> There went some troubles, full solved months ago, about login to the phpPgAdmin panel of the cPanel, on the loki server at least. All worked from that time 100% well. Both MySQL and PostgreSQL are yet full usable in the on-rev environment and some of my apps use both on a 24/7 basis (MySQL for the earliest ones, and PostgreSQL for all the other and next to come.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>> Le 17 oct. 2010 à 13:05, Len Morgan a écrit :
>>
>>> I seem to remember someone having trouble connecting to a database on their on-rev account remotely a while back.  Was this ever resolved?  I'd like to have a database that can be accessed from anywhere but I'd rather not go through the hoops of making a web service to get at the data.
>>>
>>> Was this too much of a security issue for the hosting service to allow?
>>>
>>> len morgan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>> --
>> Pierre Sahores
>> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70
>>
>> www.woooooooords.com
>> www.sahores-conseil.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
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Re: on-rev remote database

Len Morgan
  Pierre,

I'm trying to write a program that will access data on a public database
(Postgresql) and I don't really want to give pgAdmin to all of my
users.  That would be disaster!  The localhost only access has never
been the case.  I've been using Postgres for more than 15 years now and
I always have users access a common database (although it's always been
from a private network).

pgAdmin remote access is not my problem.  It's access to the data from
the outside.  I can always use cPanel if I need to maintain the database
but I've got to have remote access for end users (who could be anywhere
in the world).

len


On 10/17/2010 7:27 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Ien,
>
> You can't do this because the on-rev PostgreSQL servers security rules (following in this the best practices recommanded by the PostgreSQL team) are set to allow localhost connections only. Why don't you  simply use the on-Rev phpPgAdmin panel from your home box ? Works perfect and let us do exactly all what we could do in using PgAdmin on the 5432 unprotected port.
>
> HTH,
>
> Pierre
>
> Le 17 oct. 2010 à 21:42, Len Morgan a écrit :
>
>> Pierre,
>>
>> I'm not having any trouble with the phpPgAdmin because that's running on the same server as Postgres is.  What I'm trying to do is use (for the time being) PgAdmin from my computer at home to talk to the server at on-rev.  So far, all I get is a message that there is no server listening there so I'm thinking it's some sort of firewall issue.  Has anyone been able to successfully connect to Postgres on on-rev from a remote computer?
>>
>> len
>>
>>
>> On 10/17/2010 11:52 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>> Ien,
>>>
>>> There went some troubles, full solved months ago, about login to the phpPgAdmin panel of the cPanel, on the loki server at least. All worked from that time 100% well. Both MySQL and PostgreSQL are yet full usable in the on-rev environment and some of my apps use both on a 24/7 basis (MySQL for the earliest ones, and PostgreSQL for all the other and next to come.
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>> Pierre
>>>
>>> Le 17 oct. 2010 à 13:05, Len Morgan a écrit :
>>>
>>>> I seem to remember someone having trouble connecting to a database on their on-rev account remotely a while back.  Was this ever resolved?  I'd like to have a database that can be accessed from anywhere but I'd rather not go through the hoops of making a web service to get at the data.
>>>>
>>>> Was this too much of a security issue for the hosting service to allow?
>>>>
>>>> len morgan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Pierre Sahores
>>> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70
>>>
>>> www.woooooooords.com
>>> www.sahores-conseil.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
> --
> Pierre Sahores
> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70
>
> www.woooooooords.com
> www.sahores-conseil.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

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Re: on-rev remote database

Pierre Sahores-3
Ien,

If you just need to have a LiveCode client able to speak with the on-rev PostgreSQL backend from anyware all over the world, why don't you choose to send HTTP Posts from your client to an irev script witch will interact in localhost mode with the PostgreSQL backend in full read/write before sending back the pg response to the client ? I do this all the time and it works perfect without any security lacks.

In tunning the pg config, anyone can make PostgreSQL available in full cloud access mode but it's, at least, not a safe way to go...

HTH,

Pierre

Le 18 oct. 2010 à 04:58, Len Morgan a écrit :

> Pierre,
>
> I'm trying to write a program that will access data on a public database (Postgresql) and I don't really want to give pgAdmin to all of my users.  That would be disaster!  The localhost only access has never been the case.  I've been using Postgres for more than 15 years now and I always have users access a common database (although it's always been from a private network).
>
> pgAdmin remote access is not my problem.  It's access to the data from the outside.  I can always use cPanel if I need to maintain the database but I've got to have remote access for end users (who could be anywhere in the world).
>
> len
>
>
> On 10/17/2010 7:27 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>> Ien,
>>
>> You can't do this because the on-rev PostgreSQL servers security rules (following in this the best practices recommanded by the PostgreSQL team) are set to allow localhost connections only. Why don't you  simply use the on-Rev phpPgAdmin panel from your home box ? Works perfect and let us do exactly all what we could do in using PgAdmin on the 5432 unprotected port.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>> Le 17 oct. 2010 à 21:42, Len Morgan a écrit :
>>
>>> Pierre,
>>>
>>> I'm not having any trouble with the phpPgAdmin because that's running on the same server as Postgres is.  What I'm trying to do is use (for the time being) PgAdmin from my computer at home to talk to the server at on-rev.  So far, all I get is a message that there is no server listening there so I'm thinking it's some sort of firewall issue.  Has anyone been able to successfully connect to Postgres on on-rev from a remote computer?
>>>
>>> len
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/17/2010 11:52 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>>> Ien,
>>>>
>>>> There went some troubles, full solved months ago, about login to the phpPgAdmin panel of the cPanel, on the loki server at least. All worked from that time 100% well. Both MySQL and PostgreSQL are yet full usable in the on-rev environment and some of my apps use both on a 24/7 basis (MySQL for the earliest ones, and PostgreSQL for all the other and next to come.
>>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>> Le 17 oct. 2010 à 13:05, Len Morgan a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> I seem to remember someone having trouble connecting to a database on their on-rev account remotely a while back.  Was this ever resolved?  I'd like to have a database that can be accessed from anywhere but I'd rather not go through the hoops of making a web service to get at the data.
>>>>>
>>>>> Was this too much of a security issue for the hosting service to allow?
>>>>>
>>>>> len morgan
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Pierre Sahores
>>>> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70
>>>>
>>>> www.woooooooords.com
>>>> www.sahores-conseil.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>> --
>> Pierre Sahores
>> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70
>>
>> www.woooooooords.com
>> www.sahores-conseil.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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--
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www.sahores-conseil.com




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Re: on-rev remote database

Len Morgan-2
  Pierre,

It's only a security risk if I let the users WRITE to the database which
I have no intention of doing.  The reason I'm trying to avoid and irev
script in the middle is that I don't want to have to connect and
disconnect every time a user asks for data.  If you have a sample irev
script that would allow several hundred (I hope) users to read from this
database, I'd love to see it.  Maybe it's not as bad (i.e., establishing
a new connection to the database every time) as I'm thinking.

Thanks!

len
On 10/18/2010 6:39 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Ien,
>
> If you just need to have a LiveCode client able to speak with the on-rev PostgreSQL backend from anyware all over the world, why don't you choose to send HTTP Posts from your client to an irev script witch will interact in localhost mode with the PostgreSQL backend in full read/write before sending back the pg response to the client ? I do this all the time and it works perfect without any security lacks.
>
> In tunning the pg config, anyone can make PostgreSQL available in full cloud access mode but it's, at least, not a safe way to go...
>
> HTH,
>
> Pierre
>

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Re: on-rev remote database

Pierre Sahores-3
Ien,

See what i wrote to days ago to Bill... See the requests example jointed below. Is't the use rev list a cool library ? ;-)

Hello Bill,

> I'm not even sure if I'm asking the question correctly.
>
> I've made a simple time tracking database for my colleagues. Dates, fill-ins, drop downs etc. I'm not using any of the sophisticated Rev DB tools or SQL. I am just saving each collection of responses in separate fields. I also have a button that exports as a text file all info with records on separate lines, commas between items. Each teacher keeps their own stack on their laptop. When our supervisor needs to do a report for the school districts, each of the 13 teacher/consultants will generate the data-text file and send it to her. She will then import each text file into excel to do her sorts and reports.
>
> Every time she needs to do an update, she'll need to ask us to send our latest data and create a new excel to keep the data correct. I do have an on-rev server account. I did attend and have the dvds for rev-live Las Vegas. I do own the DVDs from the On-Rev Edinburgh conference, but haven't had time to watch them yet. I know RunRev/Live Code fairly well. I do not know SQL.
>
> Questions
>
> 1. Can I put my existing stack on my on-rev server account for multiple people to use at one time?
>
> 2. Can I put my existing stack on our school server for multiple people to use at one time?
>
> 3. Am i up-that-creek for not knowing SQL?
>
> 4. If (I) and (2) are possible with or without SQL what's my best option to learn how to do whatever I'll need to do.

SQL is not hard to learn at all when it's used in the LiveCode+On-Rev environment. In fact, if you figure it's just a special subset of LiveCode and spend some hours to test the main revDB commands/functions, you will be happy to discover how easy it is. If you do so, choose directly PostgreSQL as the db target. RevDB is full db agnostic (MySQL and PostgreSQL, at least) but PostgreSQL is lots more transparent (stability, BSD license, etc...) than MySQL.

The advantages of using an SQL backend in a n-tier server-side environment :

- SQL db are from ground build to handle in the best ways multi-users accesses in write-mode where LiveCode is't (out of the box, at least !)
- SQL db are storing data in text files too but in a lots more sophisticated way we can do in storing data in LiveCode objects or text files (concurrency in read and write modes, journalised transactions, db dump, etc...
- the best db back-ends don't require a more heavy learning curve than the less solid's ones but they are ACID-complient (PostgreSQL, FireBird, Oracle,...) witch means you will never lost data in using them
- To the end, it will always be more reliable to store big amount of data in SQL backends than in LiveCode in about speed of use in a n-tier server-sided environment and this will always be good for both your data, the server's response time average to your requests and the mutualised on-rev LiveCode server engine (top use of it in % of processor's time).
...

The main revDB to explore to become OK with SQL over LiveCode :

> put revOpenDatabase (DbTarget,"localhost",DbName,DbUser,DBPasswd) into myDatabaseID
> if myDatabaseID is not a number
> then return myDatabaseID
> else
...

> put "SELECT * FROM" && yourTable && "WHERE yourColumn LIKE '" & trim(tparam2) & "'" into sqlStatement
> put revQueryDatabase(myDatabaseID,sqlStatement) into dbCursorID
> if dbCursorID is not a number
> then return dbCursorID
> else
>
> repeat until revQueryIsAtEnd(dbCursorID)
>
> put trim(revDatabaseColumnNamed(dbCursorID,"oneOfYourColumns")) into article_titre
....
>
> put "SELECT column1,column2 FROM" && yourTable && "WHERE column3 <= current_date AND column4 LIKE '" & toUpper(tparam2) & "\|%' AND column5 = 'Y' ORDER BY column6 DESC" into sqlStatement
>
...
>
> put "UPDATE" && yourTable && "SET column3 = '" & active_record & \
> "' WHERE column1 = '" & tparam1 & "' AND column4 = '" & anonymousclt["wsanonymousclt"] & "'" into sqlStatement3
> revExecuteSQL myDatabaseID,sqlStatement3
> if the result is not a number
> then return the result
...
>
> put "INSERT INTO" && yourTable && "(column1, column2,column3,column4)" && \
> "VALUES ('" & tparam1 & "', 'record_activation', '" & tparam2 & "', 'anonymous')" into sqlStatement4 ###
>
> revExecuteSQL myDatabaseID,sqlStatement4
> if the result is not a number
> then return the result
...

> put "DELETE FROMyourTable WHERE tparam1 < '" & the seconds - 10800 & "'" into sqlStatement
> revExecuteSQL myDatabaseID,sqlStatement
> if the result is not a number
> then return the result
> else return ""

...
> revCloseDatabase(myDatabaseID)


HTH,

Best,

Pierre

>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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>

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.woooooooords.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






Le 18 oct. 2010 à 16:25, Len Morgan a écrit :

> Pierre,
>
> It's only a security risk if I let the users WRITE to the database which I have no intention of doing.  The reason I'm trying to avoid and irev script in the middle is that I don't want to have to connect and disconnect every time a user asks for data.  If you have a sample irev script that would allow several hundred (I hope) users to read from this database, I'd love to see it.  Maybe it's not as bad (i.e., establishing a new connection to the database every time) as I'm thinking.
>
> Thanks!
>
> len
> On 10/18/2010 6:39 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>> Ien,
>>
>> If you just need to have a LiveCode client able to speak with the on-rev PostgreSQL backend from anyware all over the world, why don't you choose to send HTTP Posts from your client to an irev script witch will interact in localhost mode with the PostgreSQL backend in full read/write before sending back the pg response to the client ? I do this all the time and it works perfect without any security lacks.
>>
>> In tunning the pg config, anyone can make PostgreSQL available in full cloud access mode but it's, at least, not a safe way to go...
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.woooooooords.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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Re: on-rev remote database

slylabs13
In reply to this post by Pierre Sahores-3
This is simply untrue. I do it now. You have to enter an IP that you are allowed to connect from in your IP Filtering list. I forget exactly how at the moment because I don't have the cPanel open, but this is DEFINITELY DOABLE!

Bob


On Oct 17, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Ien,
>
> You can't do this because the on-rev PostgreSQL servers security rules (following in this the best practices recommanded by the PostgreSQL team) are set to allow localhost connections only. Why don't you  simply use the on-Rev phpPgAdmin panel from your home box ? Works perfect and let us do exactly all what we could do in using PgAdmin on the 5432 unprotected port.
>
> HTH,
>
> Pierre
>
> Le 17 oct. 2010 à 21:42, Len Morgan a écrit :
>

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Re: on-rev remote database

Pierre Sahores-3
Bob,

True. Sorry for forgotting to precise this along the best practice i prefer to follow (client -> irev -> localhost connection to pg) even if in this case, each client app need to be authenticated (login/pass send as MD5(fp)) to be seen and accepted as safe and authorised to exchange messages with the irev scripts.

Best,

Pierre

Le 18 oct. 2010 à 19:02, Bob Sneidar a écrit :

> This is simply untrue. I do it now. You have to enter an IP that you are allowed to connect from in your IP Filtering list. I forget exactly how at the moment because I don't have the cPanel open, but this is DEFINITELY DOABLE!
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Oct 17, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>> Ien,
>>
>> You can't do this because the on-rev PostgreSQL servers security rules (following in this the best practices recommanded by the PostgreSQL team) are set to allow localhost connections only. Why don't you  simply use the on-Rev phpPgAdmin panel from your home box ? Works perfect and let us do exactly all what we could do in using PgAdmin on the 5432 unprotected port.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>> Le 17 oct. 2010 à 21:42, Len Morgan a écrit :
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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>

--
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Re: on-rev remote database

Andrew Kluthe
Hmm, I wonder if you can set it to not worry about what IP is the connection is coming from.

We are making a subscription service that allows for use of our programs and hosting/maintainence of your data.

We want to try to use On-Rev as a remote MySQL host. I have php scripts that create a new database for a client and execute a statement to set up the database to be used with our client program.

Our client program uses SQL Yoga to connect directly to the client's database and they can work with the same database from as many computers as they need.

The client never actually gets the login credentials for the database because they are stored in our private "big" client DB. On startup the rev program fetches the credentials from our database and connects to theirs to begin working with it.

I would hate to have to rewrite my entire suite of programs to center around an irev script for the transactions. I would love to use On-Rev as a database host because of how close it is to where I am located and the power of revServer.
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Re: on-rev remote database

Pierre Sahores-3

Le 18 oct. 2010 à 20:41, Andrew Kluthe a écrit :

> The client never actually gets the login credentials for the database
> because they are stored in our private "big" client DB. On startup the rev
> program fetches the credentials from our database and connects to theirs to
> begin working with it.

Definitively the way to go !
>
> I would hate to have to rewrite my entire suite of programs to center around
> an irev script for the transactions. I would love to use On-Rev as a
> database host because of how close it is to where I am located and the power
> of revServer.

If you prefer, you can do this in having your client (web browser or LiveCode ria app) posting their credentials to a PHP script indeed but in any case you will have to be sure that the server-side script will respond to the clients requests and interact with the db-backend only when each client will have been authenticated as allowed to interact with its own account on your on-line app.

If most of your customers are, alike mine, using dynamic IP to connect the cloud and subsequently your or mine on-line apps, an IP-based authentication system will not be usable nor safe at all in such a context.

HTH,

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.woooooooords.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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Re: on-rev remote database

Len Morgan
  This is all a moot point now since I have just been informed by
Heather that the only way the on-rev server can be set up to do this is
if you give them all of the IP addresses that people are going to
connect from and they will allow those IP addresses to connect.  This of
course will never work with a large potential user base of hundreds or
thousands.  I guess I'm going to have to throw away everything I've done
so far and start over with the web based approach that Pierre
suggested.  It's going to kill my performance but it's the only option
I've got open to me at this point.

len morgan

On 10/19/2010 2:27 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Le 18 oct. 2010 à 20:41, Andrew Kluthe a écrit :
>
>> The client never actually gets the login credentials for the database
>> because they are stored in our private "big" client DB. On startup the rev
>> program fetches the credentials from our database and connects to theirs to
>> begin working with it.
> Definitively the way to go !
>> I would hate to have to rewrite my entire suite of programs to center around
>> an irev script for the transactions. I would love to use On-Rev as a
>> database host because of how close it is to where I am located and the power
>> of revServer.
> If you prefer, you can do this in having your client (web browser or LiveCode ria app) posting their credentials to a PHP script indeed but in any case you will have to be sure that the server-side script will respond to the clients requests and interact with the db-backend only when each client will have been authenticated as allowed to interact with its own account on your on-line app.
>
> If most of your customers are, alike mine, using dynamic IP to connect the cloud and subsequently your or mine on-line apps, an IP-based authentication system will not be usable nor safe at all in such a context.
>
> HTH,
>
> --
> Pierre Sahores
> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70
>
> www.woooooooords.com
> www.sahores-conseil.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

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Re: on-rev remote database

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Len Morgan
Len Morgan wrote:

 > I guess I'm going to have to throw away everything I've done
 > so far and start over with the web based approach that Pierre
 > suggested.  It's going to kill my performance but it's the
 > only option I've got open to me at this point.

What is the performance difference?

And can you recap exactly what the implementation differences are?

I'll bet there's a way to do what you need with good performance.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv


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Re: on-rev remote database

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Len Morgan

> Len Morgan wrote:
>
>  > I guess I'm going to have to throw away everything I've done
>  > so far and start over with the web based approach that Pierre
>  > suggested.  It's going to kill my performance but it's the
>  > only option I've got open to me at this point.
>
> What is the performance difference?
>
> And can you recap exactly what the implementation differences are?
>
> I'll bet there's a way to do what you need with good performance.

Also:  How inherently relational is the data?

There are so many data storage options these days....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: on-rev remote database

Stephen Barncard-4
In reply to this post by Len Morgan
This is not a universal restriction with all web hosts. Datamost, for
instance, will allow any number of MYSQL databases and the user can tie
those DB users with any end computers' IPs from the Dreamhost control panel.
In fact, it's possible to use the % wild card and specify partial or even
all domains (not recommended) so it could work from anywhere. Dreamhost
gives their users a lot of rope (including shell access over ssh.). On-Rev
is more restrictive.

Of course if you need and are using on-rev, then you would need to buy and
install revserver at Dreamhost as well.

For best security (and if you have thousands of users, it's really
recommended) to use the cgi 'firewall' as suggested to protect your server
and clients' data. You will find that

opening and closing MYSQL frequently has almost no overhead, compared to
returning the data to the client.

the "hit" that the server will take with a cgi firewall will be minimal. Rev
server is FAST.

On 19 October 2010 04:56, Len Morgan <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  This is all a moot point now since I have just been informed by Heather
> that the only way the on-rev server can be set up to do this is if you give
> them all of the IP addresses that people are going to connect from and they
> will allow those IP addresses to connect.  This of course will never work
> with a large potential user base of hundreds or thousands.  I guess I'm
> going to have to throw away everything I've done so far and start over with
> the web based approach that Pierre suggested.  It's going to kill my
> performance but it's the only option I've got open to me at this point.
>
> len morgan
>
>
> On 10/19/2010 2:27 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>> Le 18 oct. 2010 à 20:41, Andrew Kluthe a écrit :
>>
>>  The client never actually gets the login credentials for the database
>>> because they are stored in our private "big" client DB. On startup the
>>> rev
>>> program fetches the credentials from our database and connects to theirs
>>> to
>>> begin working with it.
>>>
>> Definitively the way to go !
>>
>>> I would hate to have to rewrite my entire suite of programs to center
>>> around
>>> an irev script for the transactions. I would love to use On-Rev as a
>>> database host because of how close it is to where I am located and the
>>> power
>>> of revServer.
>>>
>> If you prefer, you can do this in having your client (web browser or
>> LiveCode ria app) posting their credentials to a PHP script indeed but in
>> any case you will have to be sure that the server-side script will respond
>> to the clients requests and interact with the db-backend only when each
>> client will have been authenticated as allowed to interact with its own
>> account on your on-line app.
>>
>> If most of your customers are, alike mine, using dynamic IP to connect the
>> cloud and subsequently your or mine on-line apps, an IP-based authentication
>> system will not be usable nor safe at all in such a context.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> --
>> Pierre Sahores
>> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70
>>
>> www.woooooooords.com
>> www.sahores-conseil.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
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--



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb  <http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar>
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Re: on-rev remote database

Andrew Kluthe
In reply to this post by Len Morgan
Ugh. That means I have to find another host. I just processed my on-rev one month to try it out and see if it can handle the load a few hours ago. I should have been more specific when I asked heather if I could have unlimited db's and if i could connect remotely to them. :\ Definitely not re-writing all my apps to use a different transaction method.
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Re: on-rev remote database

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Len Morgan
Whiskey Tango?

What Len Morgan wrote was:
 > This is all a moot point now since I have just been informed by
 > Heather that the only way the on-rev server can be set up to do
 > this is if you give them all of the IP addresses that people are
 > going to connect from and they will allow those IP addresses to
 > connect.

Unless I missed something earlier in this thread, it seems he's writing
about blocking access based on IPs, and all Heather did was remind him
of what Pierre wrote here, that given the majority of folks who use
dynamic IPs that isn't practical.


FWIW, On-Rev does indeed provide unlimited databases:

    MySQL 5.0.67 Databases: Unlimited
    PostgreSQL Databases: Unlimited
<http://www.on-rev.com/hosting/features-chart/>


Back to the original topic, granting/restricting access based on IPs is
risky and prone to error if any of your users have dynamic IPs, for the
reasons Pierre noted earlier this morning.

IP-based restrictions can be somewhat useful for some institutional
customers where fixed IP ranges can be known to belong to the customer.
  I use it myself on a subscription site I manage for a client, but not
as an alternative to login authentication but merely as an extra
restriction on top of the login requirement; I would never rely on IP
address alone.

With individual users on dynamic IPs, the risk is that the IP they're
using right now may be reassigned to someone else later, providing
unauthorized access to unknowable individuals.  Granting access by range
only exacerbates the risk.

So while it's sometimes useful, IP-based access doesn't appear to be a
practical option for Mr. Morgan, leaving him to consider more
conventional options like a simple login as most sites require for
authenticated access.


Andrew, you can hopefully breathe easier now.  Relax and enjoy your
unlimited databases.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: on-rev remote database

Pierre Sahores-3
In reply to this post by Len Morgan
Ien,

In practice, there will no be any performances difference at all between IP-based or credential-based authentication (even if the credential are send in secure mode) and you can trust me on this. On the other hand, your authentication system will make all your n-tier app process lots more secure than it would be in using something else instead. Try to always get in mind that any Cloud available app will, at one point or an other be scanned by untrustable peoples and computers farms automatic processes searching to hack your app to take hand on it (and they are sometimes attacking their targets 4-6 months per year even if they stay unsuccessful after the first attempts... and the last ones, only if the app is really safely structured). Trust need there to go along experience. Any business-dedicated n-tier app need to be build in always getting this in mind. In other words, security is never optional but the first main part we need to have in mind when we are starting a project and, fortunally, there are lots of ways to strongly secure a LiveCode-based n-tier app. Between two level strong authentication based (1.- what i know + 2.- what i own) and secure protocols, all the best can and need to be done.

my two cents,

Pierre

Le 19 oct. 2010 à 13:56, Len Morgan a écrit :

> This is all a moot point now since I have just been informed by Heather that the only way the on-rev server can be set up to do this is if you give them all of the IP addresses that people are going to connect from and they will allow those IP addresses to connect.  This of course will never work with a large potential user base of hundreds or thousands.  I guess I'm going to have to throw away everything I've done so far and start over with the web based approach that Pierre suggested.  It's going to kill my performance but it's the only option I've got open to me at this point.
>
> len morgan
>
> On 10/19/2010 2:27 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>> Le 18 oct. 2010 à 20:41, Andrew Kluthe a écrit :
>>
>>> The client never actually gets the login credentials for the database
>>> because they are stored in our private "big" client DB. On startup the rev
>>> program fetches the credentials from our database and connects to theirs to
>>> begin working with it.
>> Definitively the way to go !
>>> I would hate to have to rewrite my entire suite of programs to center around
>>> an irev script for the transactions. I would love to use On-Rev as a
>>> database host because of how close it is to where I am located and the power
>>> of revServer.
>> If you prefer, you can do this in having your client (web browser or LiveCode ria app) posting their credentials to a PHP script indeed but in any case you will have to be sure that the server-side script will respond to the clients requests and interact with the db-backend only when each client will have been authenticated as allowed to interact with its own account on your on-line app.
>>
>> If most of your customers are, alike mine, using dynamic IP to connect the cloud and subsequently your or mine on-line apps, an IP-based authentication system will not be usable nor safe at all in such a context.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> --
>> Pierre Sahores
>> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70
>>
>> www.woooooooords.com
>> www.sahores-conseil.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
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--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.woooooooords.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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Re: on-rev remote database

Andrew Kluthe
In reply to this post by Richard Gaskin
I know they are unlimited, but I need remote access for all ip's. Can you wildcard for all domains and IP's with on-rev and mySQL?
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