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want you error expertise

Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hello,

from time to time I have customers where my LC 4.6.4 program crashes on
windows machines right away when launching. The only error message is the
generic windows message "windows has encountered a problem".

I know that this can happen from everything. Installation without enough
permissions, missing or corrupted windows files, anti virus programs,
viruses, etc. In most cases I don't find the reason, beside saying "you
could reinstall your windows, etc." Though these cases are below 1% of all
my installations for the customer it is 100% of fault. And they tell me of
course that "all other programs run fine on their computer and just my
program is shit" What it makes worse is that often just these customers do
very hard to operate their computers or even don't have internet access, so
no chance to make remote diagnostics. Because of the 100% unsatisfying
experience for the customer it is also very frustrating for me, not being
able to help.

I am not experienced enough to see if this is a typical LC problem, or an
individual problem of my program (the only "specials" is using Valentina and
some shell calls) or is a LC program  not worse or better as the average of
all windows programs?

How are your experiences and how do you approach these kind of errors / what
do you tell your customers?

Thanks

Tiemo

 

 

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Re: want you error expertise

Richard Gaskin
Tiemo Hollmann wrote:

> from time to time I have customers where my LC 4.6.4 program crashes on
> windows machines right away when launching. The only error message is the
> generic windows message "windows has encountered a problem".
>
> I know that this can happen from everything. Installation without enough
> permissions, missing or corrupted windows files, anti virus programs,
> viruses, etc. In most cases I don't find the reason, beside saying "you
> could reinstall your windows, etc." Though these cases are below 1% of all
> my installations for the customer it is 100% of fault. And they tell me of
> course that "all other programs run fine on their computer and just my
> program is shit" What it makes worse is that often just these customers do
> very hard to operate their computers or even don't have internet access, so
> no chance to make remote diagnostics. Because of the 100% unsatisfying
> experience for the customer it is also very frustrating for me, not being
> able to help.
>
> I am not experienced enough to see if this is a typical LC problem, or an
> individual problem of my program (the only "specials" is using Valentina and
> some shell calls) or is a LC program  not worse or better as the average of
> all windows programs?
>
> How are your experiences and how do you approach these kind of errors / what
> do you tell your customers?

Scott Raney used to include this in the MetaCard release notes:

    MetaCard is very good at exposing bugs in the drivers for graphics
    cards.  These problems seem to be most frequent in Windows 98, but
    can plague any Windows system.  The most common symptom are images
    or cursors that draw in the wrong colors or with the mask and data
    reversed, and bits of windows left on the screen when they are
    closed or moved.  Be sure you have the latest drivers from the
    vendor of your graphics card.  If the problem still exists with
    those, try turning acceleration to its lowest level.  If that
    doesn't fix the problem (or even if it does), please report this
    bug to the vendor of your graphics card.

I love that opening line. :)

I used to think that was sheer arrogance.  After all, if MC apps are the
only ones that crash, how it could it a system problem?

Oh, how I used to argue with Raney over this, but he'd patiently tell me
to please double-check the drivers and update as needed, and let him
know if the problem persisted after an update.

In most cases it never did.

So I'd start with that:   make sure the video drivers are the very
latest from the manufacturer, and if the system in question has any
unusual devices attached to it (scanners, etc.) make sure those drivers
are current too.

Also check that any anti-virus software is up to date, and verify
whether it's truly the case that no other app has had other problems on
the machine (I sometimes find that frustrated customers may forget in
their initial report that they've had issues with other apps before).


If all that checks out it may be a problem with the engine, but
isolating it will take some work.  In such cases I've sometimes found it
helpful to make a custom build with logging in it, so that the last item
logged will tell me where it crashed.  That'll be essential for
diagnosing the issue with RunRev.

You could add logging handlers interspersed throughout your code, but
it's tedious and not always effective.

Simpler is to use a couple of undocumented things to get a very
comprehensive log of everything:

-- in your initialization stuff:
on StartLogging
   insert script of btn "LoggerFS" into front
   set the messageMessages to true
   open file (specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt") for append
end StartLogging


-- in the LoggerFS button used as a frontScript:
on messageHandled pType, pMessage
   write the internet date && the params &cr to file \
      (specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt")
   pass messageHandled
end messageHandled


-- somewhere in your quit stuff, if your program lives that long:
on StopLogging
   close file ("specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt")
end StopLogging


Here's what that does:

The messageMessages is a global property that's off by default, but when
set to true it generates "messageHandled" and "messageNotHandled"
messages for every system message, command, and function call used in
any script.

I've never found the "messageNotHandled" message useful since it's only
sent for messages that aren't handled in the message path, but
"messageHandled" can be invaluable for this sort of logging since it'll
tell you the name of pretty much everything that's called during script
execution.

WARNING:  These logs can be big.  Really big, since they record
literally everything, including every mouseMove.

It may be wise to filter out some messages less likely to be the
culprit, e.g.:

on messageHandled pType, pMessage
   if pMessage is not among the items of \
      "mouseMove,idle,mouseEnter,mouseLeave,mouseWithin" then
      write the internet date && pType && pMessage &cr to file \
        (specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt")
   end if
   pass messageHandled
end messageHandled


If you want to see an example of the messageMessages at work check out
the 4W Flight Recorder tool.  It's in the Stacks section of RevNet - in
the IDE see Development->Plugins->GoRevNet

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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AW: want you error expertise

Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hi Richard,
it's really interesting to read your experiences, nice intro of Scott Raney
:) About video drivers I havn't though of at all yet. But I will put it on
my check list.

With the messageMessages could be indeed the last try, good to know. Because
of my program crashes right at launching hopefully the log isn't that big
and I can find anything useful. From time to time I also have explicit
crashes with the Valentina db. The advice of Ruslan was to set the
debuglevel so that I get a debuglog from Valentina. My problem was in a
couple of cases, that Valentina crashed while initialization, before I
actually could set any debug level. So those cases also kept unsatisfied
open without solution (beside of the advice to reinstall the system or
service pack, what I don't want to advice any two left handed customer)

Would you say that LC programs today crash more often as programs of other
languages in your experience, or is it just my personal experience?
Thanks
Tiemo


>
> Scott Raney used to include this in the MetaCard release notes:
>
>     MetaCard is very good at exposing bugs in the drivers for graphics
>     cards.  These problems seem to be most frequent in Windows 98, but
>     can plague any Windows system.  The most common symptom are images
>     or cursors that draw in the wrong colors or with the mask and data
>     reversed, and bits of windows left on the screen when they are
>     closed or moved.  Be sure you have the latest drivers from the
>     vendor of your graphics card.  If the problem still exists with
>     those, try turning acceleration to its lowest level.  If that
>     doesn't fix the problem (or even if it does), please report this
>     bug to the vendor of your graphics card.
>
> I love that opening line. :)
>
> I used to think that was sheer arrogance.  After all, if MC apps are the
> only ones that crash, how it could it a system problem?
>
> Oh, how I used to argue with Raney over this, but he'd patiently tell me
> to please double-check the drivers and update as needed, and let him
> know if the problem persisted after an update.
>
> In most cases it never did.
>
> So I'd start with that:   make sure the video drivers are the very
> latest from the manufacturer, and if the system in question has any
> unusual devices attached to it (scanners, etc.) make sure those drivers
> are current too.
>
> Also check that any anti-virus software is up to date, and verify
> whether it's truly the case that no other app has had other problems on
> the machine (I sometimes find that frustrated customers may forget in
> their initial report that they've had issues with other apps before).
>
>
> If all that checks out it may be a problem with the engine, but
> isolating it will take some work.  In such cases I've sometimes found it
> helpful to make a custom build with logging in it, so that the last item
> logged will tell me where it crashed.  That'll be essential for
> diagnosing the issue with RunRev.
>
> You could add logging handlers interspersed throughout your code, but
> it's tedious and not always effective.
>
> Simpler is to use a couple of undocumented things to get a very
> comprehensive log of everything:
>
> -- in your initialization stuff:
> on StartLogging
>    insert script of btn "LoggerFS" into front
>    set the messageMessages to true
>    open file (specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt") for append
> end StartLogging
>
>
> -- in the LoggerFS button used as a frontScript:
> on messageHandled pType, pMessage
>    write the internet date && the params &cr to file \
>       (specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt")
>    pass messageHandled
> end messageHandled
>
>
> -- somewhere in your quit stuff, if your program lives that long:
> on StopLogging
>    close file ("specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt")
> end StopLogging
>
>
> Here's what that does:
>
> The messageMessages is a global property that's off by default, but when
> set to true it generates "messageHandled" and "messageNotHandled"
> messages for every system message, command, and function call used in
> any script.
>
> I've never found the "messageNotHandled" message useful since it's only
> sent for messages that aren't handled in the message path, but
> "messageHandled" can be invaluable for this sort of logging since it'll
> tell you the name of pretty much everything that's called during script
> execution.
>
> WARNING:  These logs can be big.  Really big, since they record
> literally everything, including every mouseMove.
>
> It may be wise to filter out some messages less likely to be the
> culprit, e.g.:
>
> on messageHandled pType, pMessage
>    if pMessage is not among the items of \
>       "mouseMove,idle,mouseEnter,mouseLeave,mouseWithin" then
>       write the internet date && pType && pMessage &cr to file \
>         (specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt")
>    end if
>    pass messageHandled
> end messageHandled
>
>
> If you want to see an example of the messageMessages at work check out
> the 4W Flight Recorder tool.  It's in the Stacks section of RevNet - in
> the IDE see Development->Plugins->GoRevNet
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World
>   LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>   Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
>   LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: want you error expertise

Bernard Devlin-2
In reply to this post by Tiemo Hollmann TB
1. Does LC on Windows not produce a crash log the way it does on OS X?
 I would look at that if it exists.  On OS X I've found these logs to
be quite useful in tracking down crashes (mostly, in recent years, in
my experience these crashes have related to externals).

2. If the log does not exist or is of no help, why not select one
customer and send them the simplest possible LC app - one that just
opens, and prints something to a field.That at least will tell you if
is fundamentally the engine.  And if not, (and there is no crash log),
then ...

3. I suspect you have to produce a debug build of your app.  It will
need to load externals one by one, and log what it is doing.  Equally
your debug build would need to load e.g. images one by one, and log
it, in case it is a single image that does it.

An intermediate step between 2 & 3 might be to have your simple app
read the Windows event log (you might have to use VBScript fo this).
It might be a bit much to ask the user to do that.  You could ask your
user to create a new login, and to install something like Skype (which
I believe has screen-sharing), then you could look at the even log
yourself.  In fact, on that matter, why not get your user to create a
new login, and run your app under that new account.  It is worth
eliminating that variable too.

Steps 1 & 2 should require little work, and should give you an idea
whether or not tracking down the cause of the crash is going to be
possible.  If the log exists and you cannot work out what is causing
the crash from it, you could send the first 20 lines to the list (or
to Runrev).

You could try using Ken Ray's Stackrunner as your test app (although
the engine it includes is 4.0).
http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/StackRunner.htm

I absolutely hate it when things just crash.  But very often, one can
take logical steps to isolate the point at which the crash occurs.
Somewhere along the line, the cause is going to be programmer error.
And by hoping that it is one's own error, one at least has the chance
to fix it.  Even if it is an error in an external, there are ways to
work around many things.

Richard's suggestion of logging is very important.  In fact, I think
one ought to build-in logging as a matter of course (including a
feature to make logging more or less verbose).  Under normal
circumstances, an app should check if logging is enabled, and if not
just procede.  It will have minimal impact on the performance.  I know
that this is a bit late for you now.  I think it is Kernighan and
Pikes "Practice of Programming" that said logging should be an
integral part of all applications.

Hopefully you will be able to isolate the problem by going no further
than a debug app that loads other resources one by one and logs them.

Bernard

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How are your experiences and how do you approach these kind of errors / what
> do you tell your customers?

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Re: want you error expertise

Bernard Devlin-2
In reply to this post by Tiemo Hollmann TB
By the way, I found that Valentina 4.7 is the last version that is
usable for Livecode.  Ruslan is aware of the defects I encountered.  I
assume a later version will fix those problems.

Others may well be using 4.8, 4.9 or 5.0 without facing the defects I
faced.  It's just a question of which features one uses.

Thinking about a crash before a debuglevel can be set, it seems that
debugging should be on by default, then switched off when an app is
successfully loaded.  I will bear that in mind for my own logging in
the future.

Bernard

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[hidden email]> wrote:
> From time to time I also have explicit
> crashes with the Valentina db. The advice of Ruslan was to set the
> debuglevel so that I get a debuglog from Valentina. My problem was in a
> couple of cases, that Valentina crashed while initialization, before I
> actually could set any debug level. So those cases also kept unsatisfied
> open without solution (beside of the advice to reinstall the system or
> service pack, what I don't want to advice any two left handed customer)

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AW: want you error expertise

Tiemo Hollmann TB
In reply to this post by Bernard Devlin-2
Hi Bernard,
thank you for your useful advices, yes win has crash-(event-)logs. I will
give them first a try (just forgot them with my last cases) and keep my own
logging as plan B
Tiemo

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:use-livecode-
> [hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Bernard Devlin
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2012 18:22
> An: How to use LiveCode
> Betreff: Re: want you error expertise
>
> 1. Does LC on Windows not produce a crash log the way it does on OS X?
>  I would look at that if it exists.  On OS X I've found these logs to
> be quite useful in tracking down crashes (mostly, in recent years, in
> my experience these crashes have related to externals).
>
> 2. If the log does not exist or is of no help, why not select one
> customer and send them the simplest possible LC app - one that just
> opens, and prints something to a field.That at least will tell you if
> is fundamentally the engine.  And if not, (and there is no crash log),
> then ...
>
> 3. I suspect you have to produce a debug build of your app.  It will
> need to load externals one by one, and log what it is doing.  Equally
> your debug build would need to load e.g. images one by one, and log
> it, in case it is a single image that does it.
>
> An intermediate step between 2 & 3 might be to have your simple app
> read the Windows event log (you might have to use VBScript fo this).
> It might be a bit much to ask the user to do that.  You could ask your
> user to create a new login, and to install something like Skype (which
> I believe has screen-sharing), then you could look at the even log
> yourself.  In fact, on that matter, why not get your user to create a
> new login, and run your app under that new account.  It is worth
> eliminating that variable too.
>
> Steps 1 & 2 should require little work, and should give you an idea
> whether or not tracking down the cause of the crash is going to be
> possible.  If the log exists and you cannot work out what is causing
> the crash from it, you could send the first 20 lines to the list (or
> to Runrev).
>
> You could try using Ken Ray's Stackrunner as your test app (although
> the engine it includes is 4.0).
> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/StackRunner.htm
>
> I absolutely hate it when things just crash.  But very often, one can
> take logical steps to isolate the point at which the crash occurs.
> Somewhere along the line, the cause is going to be programmer error.
> And by hoping that it is one's own error, one at least has the chance
> to fix it.  Even if it is an error in an external, there are ways to
> work around many things.
>
> Richard's suggestion of logging is very important.  In fact, I think
> one ought to build-in logging as a matter of course (including a
> feature to make logging more or less verbose).  Under normal
> circumstances, an app should check if logging is enabled, and if not
> just procede.  It will have minimal impact on the performance.  I know
> that this is a bit late for you now.  I think it is Kernighan and
> Pikes "Practice of Programming" that said logging should be an
> integral part of all applications.
>
> Hopefully you will be able to isolate the problem by going no further
> than a debug app that loads other resources one by one and logs them.
>
> Bernard
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > How are your experiences and how do you approach these kind of errors /
> what
> > do you tell your customers?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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AW: want you error expertise

Tiemo Hollmann TB
In reply to this post by Bernard Devlin-2
Good idea!
>
> Thinking about a crash before a debuglevel can be set, it seems that
> debugging should be on by default, then switched off when an app is
> successfully loaded.  I will bear that in mind for my own logging in
> the future.
>
> Bernard
>


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AW: want you error expertise

Tiemo Hollmann TB
... though I think Valentina wouldn't produce a debuglog file when it
crashes while initializing, probably it has to be up fully to be able to
produce such a logfile, so it wouldn't change anything
My 2 cents
Tiemo

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:use-livecode-
> [hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2012 18:39
> An: 'How to use LiveCode'
> Betreff: AW: want you error expertise
>
> Good idea!
> >
> > Thinking about a crash before a debuglevel can be set, it seems that
> > debugging should be on by default, then switched off when an app is
> > successfully loaded.  I will bear that in mind for my own logging in
> > the future.
> >
> > Bernard
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: want you error expertise

Malte Brill
In reply to this post by Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hi Tiemo!

Are you working with HTMLText? Maybe even larger amounts?

I had this in an app. It crashed almost immediately when a larger amount of HTMLText was set. The reason was a memory leak in using HTMLText with 4.6.4 that had been fixed with 5.0.
The workaround for 4.6.4 was to have a space in the starting tags

<p >Some text</p>

if I recall correctly.

hope that is any use.

Cheers,

Malte


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Re: want you error expertise

Ruslan Zasukhin-2
In reply to this post by Bernard Devlin-2
On 2/16/12 7:27 PM, "Bernard Devlin" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Barnard,

> By the way, I found that Valentina 4.7 is the last version that is
> usable for Livecode.  Ruslan is aware of the defects I encountered.  I
> assume a later version will fix those problems.
>
> Others may well be using 4.8, 4.9 or 5.0 without facing the defects I
> faced.  It's just a question of which features one uses.

Hmm, frankly saying I do not remember that issue with 4.7

Do you mean that latest 4.9.1 also not works for you?
If yes, please let me know off list what exactly troubles you have

> Bernard
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> From time to time I also have explicit
>> crashes with the Valentina db. The advice of Ruslan was to set the
>> debuglevel so that I get a debuglog from Valentina. My problem was in a
>> couple of cases, that Valentina crashed while initialization, before I
>> actually could set any debug level.

Question is why you think it is Valentina dll crashes BEFORE even init?

As I remember you talk about windows.
You do not have crash log like on OS X which exactly show stack of crash ...

As I understand this is only your guess.

You can try btw on your own win computer,
Where your app works, try remove Valentina dlls from its location
And check what wall happens when they are not found at all.


--
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]



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Re: AW: want you error expertise

Ruslan Zasukhin-2
In reply to this post by Tiemo Hollmann TB
On 2/16/12 7:37 PM, "Tiemo Hollmann TB" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Bernard,
> thank you for your useful advices, yes win has crash-(event-)logs. I will
> give them first a try (just forgot them with my last cases) and keep my own
> logging as plan B

Also must be possible I think on windows,
To ask for some info what DLLs app try to load and indeed loads.


--
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]



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Re: AW: want you error expertise

Richard Gaskin
In reply to this post by Tiemo Hollmann TB
Tiemo Hollmann wrote:
> Would you say that LC programs today crash more often as programs of other
> languages in your experience, or is it just my personal experience?

With features comes complexity, and with complexity comes bugs.

I once knew a programmer of a commercial product whose manager actively
resisted adding new features under the adage, "New code means new bugs!" ;)

Fortunately my own experience is that LC crashes very seldom, and when
it does I've usually been able to both find a workaround and submit a
recipe to the team for fixing in the future.

Fingers crossed that your situation will be resolved as well....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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AW: want you error expertise

Tiemo Hollmann TB
In reply to this post by Malte Brill
Hi Malte,
I don't use HTMLText in this case, but good to know
Thanks
Tiemo

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:use-livecode-
> [hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Malte Brill
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2012 19:38
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: want you error expertise
>
> Hi Tiemo!
>
> Are you working with HTMLText? Maybe even larger amounts?
>
> I had this in an app. It crashed almost immediately when a larger amount
of
> HTMLText was set. The reason was a memory leak in using HTMLText with
4.6.4

> that had been fixed with 5.0.
> The workaround for 4.6.4 was to have a space in the starting tags
>
> <p >Some text</p>
>
> if I recall correctly.
>
> hope that is any use.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Malte
>


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AW: want you error expertise

Tiemo Hollmann TB
In reply to this post by Ruslan Zasukhin-2
Hi Ruslan,

not BEFORE Valentina_Init, but WHILE Valentina_Init. This is the last
executed statement, so I couldn't set the debug level in the next statement.
LiveCode produced a crashlog at exact this statement, but with no other
information
The windows system crash log just shows some generic crash information to my
program and some RAM address information, which I can't interpret. But yes,
all of this is only my guess, not knowing what is going on.

I tried to remove the Valentina dlls on my computer with interesting
results.
Removing all these folders and Dlls just didn't affected my program at all,
it ran fine without them :):
\Microsoft.VC80.CRT\
\Externals\database_drives\dvvalentina4.dll
\vclient_release_x86.dll
\vkernel_release_x86.dll
\vreport_release_x86.dll
\vshared_release_x86.dll
\wxmsw28u_vc_custom.dll

Removing this Dll, my program crashed with the same error message
(Valentina_Init) as at my last customer I told you in the Valentina list:
\Externals\v4rev.dll

But what does this tell me, if this dll was installed at the customers
computer and I tried to reinstall my program three times with admin rights,
without antivir without error? The Dll was corrupted? How can this happen?
The Dll wasn't registered correctly? How can this happen? Remember, it's not
a general fault with my app, only very seldom, but on the customers computer
it's always "the only" crash program.
I have no idea

For the LiveCode guys: this is only a related excurse to a special Valentina
issue of me and not my general issue of this thread.

Tiemo

>
> Question is why you think it is Valentina dll crashes BEFORE even init?
>
> As I remember you talk about windows.
> You do not have crash log like on OS X which exactly show stack of crash
> ...
>
> As I understand this is only your guess.
>
> You can try btw on your own win computer,
> Where your app works, try remove Valentina dlls from its location
> And check what wall happens when they are not found at all.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Ruslan Zasukhin
> VP Engineering and New Technology
> Paradigma Software, Inc
>
> Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
> http://www.paradigmasoft.com
>
> [I feel the need: the need for speed]


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Re: AW: want you error expertise

Ruslan Zasukhin-2
On 2/17/12 10:38 AM, "Tiemo Hollmann TB" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Tiemo,


> not BEFORE Valentina_Init, but WHILE Valentina_Init. This is the last
> executed statement, so I couldn't set the debug level in the next statement.
> LiveCode produced a crashlog at exact this statement, but with no other
> information
> The windows system crash log just shows some generic crash information to my
> program and some RAM address information, which I can't interpret. But yes,
> all of this is only my guess, not knowing what is going on.

Aha, ok, so you know exactly this happens with Valentina_Init()

 
> I tried to remove the Valentina dlls on my computer with interesting
> results.

> Removing all these folders and Dlls just didn't affected my program at all,
> it ran fine without them :):
> \Microsoft.VC80.CRT\
> \Externals\database_drives\dvvalentina4.dll
> \vclient_release_x86.dll
> \vkernel_release_x86.dll
> \vreport_release_x86.dll
> \vshared_release_x86.dll
> \wxmsw28u_vc_custom.dll

Not clear full path  -- where from you have remove this dlls

Remember that you could have it

A) in  /Program Files/Paradigma Software/ vcomponents
B) in your app folder

 
> Removing this Dll, my program crashed with the same error message
> (Valentina_Init) as at my last customer I told you in the Valentina list:
> \Externals\v4rev.dll

Okay, so if REV IDE have not found or was not able load required external
crash happens ...


=================
> But what does this tell me, if this dll was installed at the customers
> computer and I tried to reinstall my program three times with admin rights,
> without antivir without error? The Dll was corrupted? How can this happen?
> The Dll wasn't registered correctly? How can this happen? Remember, it's not
> a general fault with my app, only very seldom, but on the customers computer
> it's always "the only" crash program.
> I have no idea

This say that most probably Windows on that seldom computers is somehow
strange.

About 3 years ago I have had such dances with one client also.
I have spend few hours using Remote Desktop with that client.

We have found that special folder Windows/WinSxS (not sure for exact name
now) did miss some folders, similar to VC80.CRT.xxxx ,
where xxxxx is some version number.

When we have copied manually that additional folders from normal working
Windows computers, all have start to work.

Why this Windows was such strange not clear...
May be special edition ... Some OEM ...

Also I told you already that installation of
    * IE package
    * some SP  package could also fix that issue.


--
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]



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AW: AW: want you error expertise

Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hi Ruslan,
I didn't tested it in the IDE, I tested in a standalone environment and
removed the files from my app folder of the standalone.
Thanks
Tiemo

>
>
> > I tried to remove the Valentina dlls on my computer with interesting
> > results.
>
> > Removing all these folders and Dlls just didn't affected my program at
> all,
> > it ran fine without them :):
> > \Microsoft.VC80.CRT\
> > \Externals\database_drives\dvvalentina4.dll
> > \vclient_release_x86.dll
> > \vkernel_release_x86.dll
> > \vreport_release_x86.dll
> > \vshared_release_x86.dll
> > \wxmsw28u_vc_custom.dll
>
> Not clear full path  -- where from you have remove this dlls
>
> Remember that you could have it
>
> A) in  /Program Files/Paradigma Software/ vcomponents
> B) in your app folder
>


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